Is it ethical to sell the bricks needed to make someone else's MOC

[Tombacus]

So... I have returned to building with LEGO and have a new fascination with the modular buildings. I have built all the available LEGO sets, bricklinked CC, MS and GG, purchased instructions from Kristel and Brian Lyles and built those modulars and now I am building a few of my own designs. Unfortunately my financial resources are not unlimited (has anyone else noticed how expensive this can get?...). I now find myself in a place where I am considering selling some of the modulars I have bricklinked in order to finance new projects.

My question to the group is whether or not its ok to sell a full set of the bricks needed to build an MOC I have purchased the instructions for? I want to respect the time and effort those designers have put into their work and would not consider selling the instructions, but I put time and effort into collecting the needed bricks from a variety of sellers and that could be valuable to someone who wants to build these models and is daunted by the idea of collecting all of the pieces.

Please let me know what you think.

[GallardoLU]

its not unheard of for people to sell MOCs like what you described, but there are usually 3 routes that happen. 1st, you sell the MOC and the original designer finds out and gets upset. 2nd, you sell the MOC and no one finds out (or if they do, are cool with the sale). and 3rd (the right choice in my opinion) You contact the original designer, get permission to sell the MOC, and then sell to whom ever and everyone is happy.

[gazumpty]

I think you can cover all bases by advertising the bricks as a lot...to build 'xxx' named modular and link the instructions to the build...therefore the original designer of the instructions can sell another set to whoever buys your bricks.

I can see the argument though, that TLG doesn't get a cut every time some re-sells their models...but they are a very large and profitable organisation, that strives on Lego be readily available and desirable, that in turn leads to their own new products being snapped up every time by us guys out here!

My first purchase, after my dark ages, was the FB modular on eBay...which in turn captured my imagination and I have returned to the Lego fold and spent plenty of money, straight into TLG coffers.

I think its not an issue, and give the original designer the opportunity to sell another book

[paostmo]

I think it's ok to sell the lot of bricks like "gazumpty" said. You aren't selling the instructions, and you aren't making the claim that it is your design. You should include information on where to buy the instructions from the actual designer if possible.

[tedbeard]

I see no ethical objection to selling either the bricks or the instructions so long as you make no claim in regards the authorship of the instructions.

Why is this any diferent than buying a LEGO set and selling it on?

[Peppermint_M]

Because of the time and effort spent by the original designer.

They either spent time in LDD making their MOC or they rebuilt it in LDD to create instructions.

I mean, some of my builds take a few hours and I can just about share some methods when people ask and these are vehicles! I can't imagine the effort for a modular.

[Trainmaster247]

I think you should get permission from the original designer like a lot of other people

[Robianco]

The IP of the instructions is with the original designer so I don't think you should sell those... Merely provide a link to where they can be bought from their creator... The bricks on the other hand are fair game and should be treated as any other collection of bricks... Sell them at your leisure.

[Bricksnaps]

You used the word ethical. I think linking to where someone can buy or see the designers original instructions is fine. That would be an ethicaly right thing to do.

An unethical thing to do would be to sell it as your build or your own design.

If it was a painting I would sell the painting as painted by 'xxxxxx'. I wouldn't sell it as a painting I made.

You have no obligation to the original designer unless it says so in the agreement when you purchased the instructions. But you are looking at what is ethically the right thing to do- I think you know the answer.

[dr_spock]

You aren't reselling the instructions for the MOC but you are selling those bricks purchased for the MOC. I don't think there is a conflict since those bricks are your property. You're basically providing a value add service of doing the hard work of finding those bricks on Bricklink so someone else doesn't have to do it.

If instructions can be considered like a how-to book you can buy at the book store. In which case, it could be resold like a used book. On the hand, if the copyright holder of MOC design only licensed the use of the MOC instructions to you, then it may not be resold if that is in the licensing agreement.

[ecmo47]

Sell your MOC assembled. If the buyer wants the instructions, they would need to get them from the original designer. No ethical issue with that plan!

One additional note, it's difficult to get your invested money out of a none-Lego designed Modulars.

Edited March 11, 2015 by ecmo47

[Darth Dino]

Hi

you can resell the bricks, the complete model and the instructions as you like, because you purchased them in the first. What you cannot do is to claim it was your design or copy the instructions and resell them.

But keep in mind most moccers that sell instructions like to be cited in dome way. So its good to sell the complete model as "XYZs modular house".

Dino

[SwissBrick]

Hi Tombacus,

actually this is exactly what I am looking for.. I bought some of Brian Lyles instructions, only the ones that are alternate builds of existing modulars - meaning I can buy the pieces at once.. I also got some of Kristel's instructions, mostly because I loved her buildings and wanted to encourage her at the beginning, but never brinklinked them, no time for that..

So if you have complete sets, contact me, I'd be more than happy to buy them and also buy instructions from the original designer!

As long as the purchaser of your bricks has to buy the original builder's instructions there is no harm, everyone wins..

Also I was discussing it with members in private a long time ago, I think there is a business model there... Get partnership with model designers, gather the pieces and sell kits in a larger scale than only a few like on Brick city depot..

Would anyone else be interested in buying custom designed modulars instructions and all pieces together?

Thanks for your post and please contact me

[bonox]

If you bought and disassembled a car and then advertised it as a pile of parts suitable for building that car, would you expect to have to get permission from Ford etc to do so?

[dr_spock]

If you bought and disassembled a car and then advertised it as a pile of parts suitable for building that car, would you expect to have to get permission from Ford etc to do so?

I think it is more like buying an aftermarket exhaust and coilovers to MOD your Ford and then selling your Ford with the aftermarket parts installed or selling off the aftermarket parts separately.

[bonox]

I think it is more like buying an aftermarket exhaust and coilovers to MOD your Ford and then selling your Ford with the aftermarket parts installed or selling off the aftermarket parts separately.

I think it is more like I said. Ford = MOC designer. Car = lego parts. TLG has no more right to, or control over, the parts any more than which ever third party company made the bolts, castings and metal sheet that Ford used to create the car.

The OP isn't trading in the intellectual property of creating the design, merely the set of parts required to construct a design. Just owning all the parts of a car doesn't get you anywhere near being able to assemble that car, nor just ownership of lego parts.

Many of us already own the complete set of parts required to build any number of MOCs. Trading them in whatever collection/combination you like doesn't make you responsible to anyone. What happens for example, if you include one extra 'spare' part. It no longer becomes the exact list of parts required for anything!

Comparing aftermarket parts for a car is the same as talking about Firgelli linear actuators or any of Efferman's 3D printed parts, which is not an issue here. TLG has no rights of sale in the second hand market either - they don't issue software style license agreements with their parts.

Final point is that a lot of MOCs (no comment here on these particular modulars) have parts lists in the public domain even when the BI have monetary values attached to them.

To the OP, as a designer, I would believe that custom sets of parts would actually improve your sales of instructions, especially when collections otherwise involve many orders from parts stores, or you are attracting a market that either knows nothing of BL/brickowl/etc or couldn't be bothered learning how to drive it, or perhaps doesn't want to type in a wanted list of parts where no existing catalogue exists.

[Kristel]

Here's my view as a seller of instructions for custom models:

• I have no problem with someone wanting to sell a completed physical copy of one of my designs, provided they acknowledge me as the designer. As courtesy, I would like to be notified that it is being listed for sale.
  
• I do have problem with someone suggesting it is their design (wether explicitly, or by omission of an acknowledgement)
  
• I do have a problem with someone selling instructions for one of my models, whether by themselves or as part of a pack that includes the parts to build the model.
  

I put "Not for resale" on my instructions. I haven't gotten a legal opinion on that (I do note though that you cannot on-sell books you buy on the iBook store, at least not in Australia), and must admit that I am not particularly interested in this becoming a legal debate. My views are based on what I think is ethical.

[andythenorth]

Yes it's ethical to sell the bricks you own. This is something you should have no concerns about.

[Wookiee]

I think what is ethical is selling a once off complete model with "printed" instructions and not supplying the parts list etc. The value of these plans is is just not the plan but in the parts list making it possible to source the parts. This is as a one off.

If you are going to do it for profit and sell multiple copies then i think it is reasonable to request permission from the original designer as they would be entitled to a royalty.

People can sell second hand goods at there own pleasure without going back to the supplier.

You can not profit from selling multiple built copies (on eBay or such) without paying them a percentage and Krystel or someone like her (in Australia) would be within thier rights to claim compensation if it did happen without permission or payment.

Edited March 13, 2015 by Wookiee