Custom 9V tracks

[Railfan9]

That is interesting. What did it look like? The one I ripped open is probably 25 years old, so wouldn't surprise me if the design's changed a bit since.

It was exactly the same as yours expect for the spring or those tabs holding the spring. The one I had open is about two years old. So it doesn't surprise me that the design changed.

[bricks n bolts]

Would love a progress update on the switches, did you work out the mechanism details?

Also, wondering for the all ABS version, will it be open source, so possible to make customizations via an STL or even Openscad?

[coaster]

Sure thing.

I've been tinkering with the new mechanism, but it still isn't working to my satisfaction. I'm not giving up on it, but I'm going to table it for now in favor of the standard Lego mechanism. However, having only one moving point does introduce a handful of other problems. I have most of those worked out, but currently looks like this (less said moving point):

As for open sourcing these later, I'm not sure how much good that will do you. STL files are sort of a one way street; they're really not usable from a CAD standpoint, even doing something as simple as removing a stud would be an arduous task. And I wasn't familiar with Openscad, but looking at it, I think you would want to kill yourself if you had to work with that. Plus, there's no "code" per se for you to edit, so not sure you could do anything with it anyway.

Even if I were to release the step files for these (universal format that is editable), editing them to create a custom piece would be an absolute nightmare for someone who does this everyday, and likely insurmountable for the casual CAD user. Just to give you a sense of the complexity to this, here's a screenshot as I work on the switch base:

I have a set of rules that I've also programmed into the model that aid in regenerating the curves and crossties if I change something. It's modeled parametrically as best I can, and all the dimensions are actually referenced off a master spreadsheet. I'm doing this as efficiently as I can, and there are still some 1200-odd parameters and 150+ work features, none of which would be available to you from the step file (think of it like a weird, insanely huge zip file). Your CAD software would have to have direct edit capabilities, which, as far as I know, is reserved for the higher end software like Solidworks or Inventor, and it would still make you want to kill yourself.

Not trying to be too discouraging, just don't think it's something you're really going to want to take on.

[bricks n bolts]

I've been tinkering with the new mechanism, but it still isn't working to my satisfaction.

Is it just the springs or something else you're having trouble with?

I think having it working without a spring would be fine and then the user could either lock it with plates or install their own servo motor. Could even copy 12v switch motors, think Andromeda here on the forum managed to swap out all the internals.

And I wasn't familiar with Openscad, but looking at it, I think you would want to kill yourself if you had to work with that.

Certainly not much to look at. It's more of a programmer's tool then a designer's. What you could try is importing the end STL into it as a polyhedron and then use difference and union functions to add or cut away custom objects from the original model.

Not trying to be too discouraging, just don't think it's something you're really going to want to take on.

Fair enough, was just thinking about not full 12v switches but adding a feature to the ABS version which would allow 12v pickups to cross without hard-colliding with the edge of the rail, particularly on the turnout. So like on real world switches where there is a middle rail, you would have to flatten off two sections half way through the cross track and have two additional side rail supports. let me know if this makes no sense at all and I'll draw a picture.

[coaster]

Is it just the springs or something else you're having trouble with?

I think having it working without a spring would be fine and then the user could either lock it with plates or install their own servo motor. Could even copy 12v switch motors, think Andromeda here on the forum managed to swap out all the internals.

The spring is part of it, but the raw finish of the printed parts isn't that good, so there's quite a bit more friction than would be on a molded component. The printed parts are also not as strong, so I've had to thicken them up and then there's clearance issues... Nothing insurmountable, but will probably take more work than I want to put into it right now.

Fair enough, was just thinking about not full 12v switches but adding a feature to the ABS version which would allow 12v pickups to cross without hard-colliding with the edge of the rail, particularly on the turnout. So like on real world switches where there is a middle rail, you would have to flatten off two sections half way through the cross track and have two additional side rail supports. let me know if this makes no sense at all and I'll draw a picture.

Ah, that should be doable. I don't have any 12V stuff, but I could pick up a few pieces. You're referring to one of these, right?

I don't see a reason why we couldn't even do that powered. The rails pieces I'm making for the 9V tracks could easily be adapted here. Might have to get a little creative at the ends to connect the power, but I can put it on the list to look at.

[bricks n bolts]

Yes, but was thinking more of the 80's grey era ones as they had the detachable switch motors which does away with the need for a spring :

Personally I don't require the whole thing to be electrified (but would be nice) as now have supercaps to get over non-powered sections. But I still have an issue with the pickups colliding with the side tracks. Could be fixed in two ways, either by adding ramps, which has the advantage in that they could be printed separately as an extra or secondly by adding additional gaps and rail supports to the side tracks which I think would look nicer...

I also like the ability to be able to print in light grey (or 'polished metallic' is the closest Shapeways colour) as opposed to the current bley.

[coaster]

Hmm, seems I need to brush up on my earlier era trains. I didn't jump into trains till they came out with 9V, so I'm not too familiar with what came before. But I'll look into it.

As for the print color, unfortunately Shapeways is going to limit us to just the white. Whatever machine they have that's big enough to print the switches only has the one color option. None of my printers can handle it either. Now, if I had $250k to burn, I'd get myself one of these bad boys and then we'd really be rockin'!

[Electricsteam]

Hmm, seems I need to brush up on my earlier era trains. I didn't jump into trains till they came out with 9V, so I'm not too familiar with what came before. But I'll look into it.

As for the print color, unfortunately Shapeways is going to limit us to just the white. Whatever machine they have that's big enough to print the switches only has the one color option. None of my printers can handle it either. Now, if I had $250k to burn, I'd get myself one of these bad boys and then we'd really be rockin'!

Is there any way to break the model into pieces that you can assemble? One piece for the switch mechanism one to two piece for the rest of the track?

[Railfan9]

Hmm, seems I need to brush up on my earlier era trains. I didn't jump into trains till they came out with 9V, so I'm not too familiar with what came before. But I'll look into it.

As for the print color, unfortunately Shapeways is going to limit us to just the white. Whatever machine they have that's big enough to print the switches only has the one color option. None of my printers can handle it either. Now, if I had $250k to burn, I'd get myself one of these bad boys and then we'd really be rockin'!

Thankfully it's only a color, and not them saying no to the switches.

[bricks n bolts]

Hmm, seems I need to brush up on my earlier era trains. I didn't jump into trains till they came out with 9V, so I'm not too familiar with what came before. But I'll look into it.

Thanks for looking into it. Your last but one design reminded me of them, with the technic axle hole coming straight up, they are very nice with servo motor and remote options.

As for the print color, unfortunately Shapeways is going to limit us to just the white. Whatever machine they have that's big enough to print the switches only has the one color option. None of my printers can handle it either. Now, if I had $250k to burn, I'd get myself one of these bad boys and then we'd really be rockin'!

Just looked up the Shapeways bounding box sizes, seems 'metallic plastic' is 230 × 180 × 310 mm and what we really want (well maybe me anyway) - 'polished metallic plastic' is 150 × 150 × 150 mm. Seems surprising you went outside the bounds of the first one, did it fail one of their other tolerance checks with wall size of something?

Edited March 16, 2016 by bricks n bolts

[coaster]

Just looked up the Shapeways bounding box sizes, seems 'metallic plastic' is 230 × 180 × 310 mm and what we really want (well maybe me anyway) - 'polished metallic plastic' is 150 × 150 × 150 mm. Seems surprising you went outside the bounds of the first one, did it fail one of their other tolerance checks with wall size of something?

Nope, just fails the bounding box. I modeled up a dummy bounding box, and with a little massaging, I can get it to fit, so Shapeway's software just must not be able to fully orient it to get it to work. I'll try uploading a model where I reorient it on the xyz, see if I can force it to fit. If not, I suppose I could always just call them.

EDIT: Well, I was able to cram it in, so the Metallic Plastic is an option, though it's almost twice as much as the regular white or black (which also opened up, by the way).

Edited March 16, 2016 by coaster

[bricks n bolts]

Well, I was able to cram it in, so the Metallic Plastic is an option, though it's almost twice as much as the regular white or black (which also opened up, by the way).

That's great, how much is it saying then for the Metallic Plastic, dare I ask?

Think if you do split it up into 3 or so pieces the polished option may help with the friction issues you mentioned.

For example, if it helps, this track convertor was printed in the polished metallic option :

[coaster]

That's great, how much is it saying then for the Metallic Plastic, dare I ask?

Think if you do split it up into 3 or so pieces the polished option may help with the friction issues you mentioned.

$134 and change, and that's also with it missing several pieces.

What I was hoping to do was leave all the components as a single item, this way someone could just order a "R104 right switch assembly" from Shapeways and get everything they needed, minus a spring. And that spring then becomes an issue because I need to source one that is readily available to the public, so I can't customize one, or even specify a stock one from a manufacturer (most don't sell to non-industrial customers because they want you to buy 1000+) .

The alternative becomes everything runs through me, and I'll finish and assemble. That was going to be the case for the 9V ones obviously, but was thinking I could defer the all plastic ones to Shapeways. I certainly don't mind doing it, but then I have to handle not only the parts, but orders, packaging, shipping, etc, so that just adds cost.

[codefox421]

That's great, how much is it saying then for the Metallic Plastic, dare I ask?

Think if you do split it up into 3 or so pieces the polished option may help with the friction issues you mentioned.

For example, if it helps, this track convertor was printed in the polished metallic option:

How are the tolerances with the polished metallic? I haven't tried that one before, but I have tried black strong & flexible (BSF), which wound up being polished. The polishing removed a lot of material and basically destroyed any clutch power it might have had. What's been your experience?

[bricks n bolts]

What I was hoping to do was leave all the components as a single item, this way someone could just order a "R104 right switch assembly" from Shapeways and get everything they needed, minus a spring. And that spring then becomes an issue because I need to source one that is readily available to the public, so I can't customize one, or even specify a stock one from a manufacturer (most don't sell to non-industrial customers because they want you to buy 1000+) .

Thought I saw something on Shapeways recently which will allow you to group items. A new feature they are implementing. Annoyingly, I can't find any of the details now.

How are the tolerances with the polished metallic? I haven't tried that one before, but I have tried black strong & flexible (BSF), which wound up being polished. The polishing removed a lot of material and basically destroyed any clutch power it might have had. What's been your experience?

For the convertors I just took the STL file from Thingiverse and uploaded it into Shapeways to print in the Polished Metallic. Clutch power is good, size is spot on, haven't had any issues. I have tried 3 different convertors, and these are definitely the best, better than the ones already on Shapeways, the others have issues with the bumps in the track transition and on top of that with this version you only gain one stud to a standard length track piece.

[coaster]

Took a little longer to finish than I wanted, but it's off to the printers!

EDIT: If anyone wants to take a closer look, check this out.

Edited April 1, 2016 by coaster

[jkj1909]

Wow, looks fantastic !!!

Will you sell them as completely printed items,

or will you sell the cad files, so we can go to a printer shop our selves.

We have a big 3d printer shop here in Copenhagen

Edited April 1, 2016 by jkj1909

[coaster]

I'll sell them completed. The metal rails can't be printed; they're too small to do accurately. Plus, there's a spring beneath the point and some metal stamped pieces needed. I'll source everything, finish, and assemble, so they'll be complete. I've also had some decent quotes come in on tooling, so molding the bases may not be outside the realm of possibility. Still too early to call though.

[michaelgale]

Absolutely fantastic! Thanks for all of your hard work on the design. Many of us look forward to it being available!

[marook]

Wow, looks great!

Any idea what the price is heading at?

[coaster]

Thanks! Sadly, since I'm not Lego making tens of thousands of these, I can't make and sell a pair of switches for $30. It's probably going to be around $75-100 per switch, so figure to get a switch pack with two switches and 4 curve pieces (parallel and concentric tracks require 2 different curves, unfortunately) will probably be around $250. It's a little higher than I'd like, but if you compare to some of the LGB stuff out there it's not too far out of line.

[michaelgale]

The price point of $75-100 per switch is totally in line with what O-gauge and G-scale switches retail for from manufacturers such as Peco, LGB, Piko, etc. And as you say, you need a custom curve to form a return parallel track which I would suggest should come standard in the pack.

[legoman666]

Can you make the inner wheel guide angled like the newer official ones are?

[coaster]

And as you say, you need a custom curve to form a return parallel track which I would suggest should come standard in the pack.

Correct, the switches would come with the appropriate curves. Those curves will also have a symbol on the bottom to differentiate them.

Can you make the inner wheel guide angled like the newer official ones are?

Sure, I'm guessing the new ones are a little different from the old ones? I don't have anything newer than probably 10-12 years, so I'm probably referencing dated parts. I haven't actually ordered the printed bases yet, so I'll check on the guards first and get those corrected. I've ordered some used ones off ebay. Should only take me a few minutes to update that once I get them.

[coaster]

It was pointed out to me that we have a teensy little issue when constructing parallel sidings:

Solution: What is everyone's thoughts on switching the throw mechanism to the straight side? Unless you have your tracks right up against the edge of your display, I can't think of a scenario where this would cause an issue. I suppose it'd be a problem if you were building a circle with straights coming out every 22.5°, but that'd be really weird. Certainly less common that building a yard like this. And, for what it's worth, if/when I do a double crossover, it'll have to have the toggle on the straight sections as well, otherwise you'll be forced into dependent directions like the official Lego one.