LDD Issue related to the Graphics Card.

[suenkachun]

This is my first post here so I'm hoping that everything is right.

I've been using LDD for quite a long time. In the past, it was installed on my Desktop Computer running Windows Vista, and nothing went wrong. I recently bought a Laptop running Windows 8.1 and again installed LDD to continue building my projets. After a few weeks, problems started to appear. LDD would sometimes crash or auto-terminate unexpectedly under a number of situations, meaning that I would suddenly loose everything unsaved! At that time, I was building something important and the issues made me very frustrated. Although I managed to complete it, I decided to contact LEGO to see if they could help me come up with a long-term solution. Soon, the problem was identified.

LDD has the following requirments: Graphics card: 128 MB graphics card (OpenGL 1.1 or higher compatible). However, my Laptop did not meet that requirment, as my Intel HD Graphics 4400 only has 32 MB of Dedicated Video Memory.

The Support Team of LDD suggested that I should instead use the NVIDIA GeForce 840M also equipped on my Laptop to run LDD as a possible solution. I did just that, and it seems that everything is back to normal again, as I could successfully open and modify some old files. New files created were also error-free. But eventually something still went wrong.

The imoprtant something I was building which I mentioned above had a file size of 696 KB, while my current Project has a file size of 420 KB. The ironic thing is the larger file can finally be opened and modified successfully but the smaller one can't! Here is what happens: After I open the smaller file, it starts to load. When it nearly finishes loading, LDD crashes or auto-terminates, so I simply can't open the file to continue building the project! The only special thing about the smaller file is that it has very large dimensions. Its base consists of 32 48x48 Base Plates in a 4x8 arrangement, so the actual dimensions are 192x384 Bricks.

As I do not want to change any of the hardware on my laptop or get another one, can anyone suggest me a solution so that I can continue to build my project on my Laptop? If you have a similar problem, do post your reply and see if anyone can help you here. Thank you for your attention.

Edited January 7, 2015 by suenkachun

[Zerobricks]

Greetings!

I think the problems is simply that your models has too many poligons for LDD to handle. Can you share the file and I will try to split it in smaller pieces.

[suenkachun]

Sorry that it took a while for me to reply, as I tried to find other solutions to my problem. I tried to find another computer to open my file, but apparantly most of the Computers around me do not meet LDD's minimum requirment, as all of their graphics cards had a dedicated video memory less than 100 MB. And the file still doesn't open on my Laptop. Anyway, here's a link to the file: http://www.filedropper.com/miniracetrack. Thank you for everyone's attention.

[Zerobricks]

Please fix your link.

[suenkachun]

I've used Dropbox to upload my file instead, so it should work his time. Here's the new link: https://www.dropbox.com/s/v4km0sgsb4r8zty/Mini%20Race%20Track.lxf?dl=0.

[Zerobricks]

I tried running LDD with all graphical options off, safe mode, etc and it crsashes while loading file...

[suenkachun]

Well, thank you for your help anyway.

[roland]

It crashed for me too (at ~75% of loading).

It's probably due to it running against the 32 bit application memory ceiling as it was using just over 1GB memory, although that's below the 2GB 32 bit limit it is a 'danger' zone. Depending on how LDD manages it memory it will run into fragmentation problems when it tries to allocate more memory (which is often done by doubling the current amount etc).

So unless LEGO comes with a 64 bit version of LDD I don't think you will be able to use this lxf file.

[suenkachun]

Check out pbat's reply to me in the following link (near the bottom): http://www.eurobrick...953&st=700.��. It highlights a very important point in these errors. Here I quote the key message describing my file: "LXF files are nothing but zipped xml files, along with a png preview image. What makes LDD crash is not so much the size of these files, but the amount of polygons it has to render: Many bricks result in bigger XML, thus in a bigger LXF file, while polygons do no necessarily correlate with brick count: A synonym for "polygons" is "studs". And there are little parts having more studs (= more polygons) than a 48×48 baseplate. And if your file has as many as 32 of it, it is no wonder it will crash. although its brick count and thus its file size is relatively small." The three links he posted there are also very useful. In conclusion, file size doesn't always matter if you can't open your LDD file.

Edited August 17, 2015 by suenkachun

[roland]

I think in this case the polygon count isn't the biggest problem it's the potential connection count. During the loading of a file LDD has to figure out what's connected to what etc, using all those 48x48 parts causes an explosion in the number of possible connections which LDD all has to test / discard (and thus eating memory in the progress).

Polygon wise you need to make something very big (resulting in millions of triangles, >200 thousand parts) in order to get in trouble on modern GPU's.

edit: wend a bit overboard ther :), it should be millions, not billions.

Edited January 7, 2015 by roland

[Zerobricks]

I mamanged to create too many poligions once, the driver or LDD actually reported such error.

[suenkachun]

In the reply by pbat, a solution was suggested to solve these errors. In my case, all I need to do is delete some of the 48x48 Base Plates and my file should successfully load again. pbat's method involves unzipping and re-zipping the LDD file (refer to the reply for more details), but I could not re-zip the file afterwards due to some unknown error. Therefore, is there another way to delete some of the 48x48 Base Plates in my file when my file still can't be opened, such as by using other related programmes, then going back to LDD? Thank you for everyone's attention.

[Superkalle]

Here is a version for you without the baseplates.

Generally, I think perhaps you are using LDD like a "layout" program, and then using bricks and techniques in a way that may not work IRL.

LDD is intended for projects with perhaps up to max 10.000 brick projects (or thereabouts).

Mini Race Track2.lxf

[Calabar]

You don't need to zip the file again, LDD is perfectly able to load lxfml files.

PS: you don't need to unzip the lxf file too: usually file archivers allow to work on text files (such as the lxfml file) directly (the software updates the archive).

[Nachapon Lego]

Can't open the file. The lxfml show that there are about 17,000 parts, that should be OK.

Maybe the real problem is the huge Rigid system #24:

<Rigid refID="24"

(group of parts connected together #24)

which is follow with part #31 to #15903. So there are about 16,000 part connected together in this Rigid system. That mean almost all parts in this big scene connected together!

Build large scale LDD:

- Often Save as new files after add some stuff. (many versions for spare/safety, as same as Eurobrick's LDD RCB).

- Do not connect all modules together, just put them side by side. (Don't let too many parts connected together, huge Rigid system = huge calculations for connectivity.)

4K Rendering 4096 x 2560 pixels.

suenkachun 's Mini Race Track 4k render by Nachapon S., on Flickr

Edited January 8, 2015 by bbqqq

[Superkalle]

Can't open the file. The lxfml show that there are about 17,000 parts, that should be OK.

Maybe the real problem is the huge Rigid system #24:

<Rigid refID="24"

(group of parts connected together #24)

That's what I did too to manage to open it. Actually I removed all Rigid Systems in the LXFML, set to Max compatabilitiy level, then opened and removed the baseplates under to get it a bit more managable.

[Nachapon Lego]

That's what I did too to manage to open it. Actually I removed all Rigid Systems in the LXFML, set to Max compatabilitiy level, then opened and removed the baseplates under to get it a bit more managable.

You are right, I just try to open the Mini Race Track2.lxf with Max compatabilitiy level then success.

The rendering above using original Mini Race Track.lxf (can not open), but change camera setting in POV-ray.

Edited January 8, 2015 by bbqqq

[suenkachun]

Thank you for everyone's help so far! I'll try out all of your suggestions soon after I finish something else. If things are still not working, I'll wait until I return home in June and try opening the file on my old Desktop Computer running Windows Vista instead, as using LDD there seemed to always have been error-free for me in the past.

Edited February 3, 2015 by suenkachun

[suenkachun]

You don't need to zip the file again, LDD is perfectly able to load lxfml files.

PS: you don't need to unzip the lxf file too: usually file archivers allow to work on text files (such as the lxfml file) directly (the software updates the archive).

I mentioned the zip problem partly because my Laptop was not set to show any File Extensions at that time, and now I have fixed that. Also, I tried to open my original LDD File directly by using Notepad without unzipping it, and the contents of the text file appeared as useless characters, so I had to unzip it for the text to make sense. And it seems that my Laptop is not powerful enough even to open the modified file, so I will can the project now and try again on my old Desktop Computer when I return home. Edited February 3, 2015 by suenkachun

[jttnot]

I just created a post that is the exact same problem pretty much. Didn't know this one was here. Someone asked me to upload it to brick(somethingorother) lol so he could see it. Wouldn't I have to be able to open it to do that?

[jttnot]

So I conducted a test. Opened a new build and placed 8 base plates in a 4x4 pattern, then started adding bricks (2x2) filling the plates. First save at 10k, then 15k then 1k+ incrementally. Got to 20k bricks and no problems. Opened a new file for base plates only. Placed a 10X10 layout and saved, then 15x15 and saved again. Then placed a 1 baseplate border saving after each border. Once I saved at 17X17 that was the furthest I could go. The most I managed to add was 5 base plates (all 32x32 dots) before the program shut down.

I think this should go on the request list for the next upgrade to digital designer.

[Superkalle]

So I conducted a test. Opened a new build and placed 8 base plates in a 4x4 pattern, then started adding bricks (2x2) filling the plates. First save at 10k, then 15k then 1k+ incrementally. Got to 20k bricks and no problems. Opened a new file for base plates only. Placed a 10X10 layout and saved, then 15x15 and saved again. Then placed a 1 baseplate border saving after each border. Once I saved at 17X17 that was the furthest I could go. The most I managed to add was 5 base plates (all 32x32 dots) before the program shut down.

I think this should go on the request list for the next upgrade to digital designer.

I see you have already started a topic about this question here. Please don't cross-post - one post/topic per subject. Thanks

[jttnot]

I see you have already started a topic about this question here. Please don't cross-post - one post/topic per subject. Thanks

Sorry about that. I didn't know this was here when I posted that one. Is there a way to move my post to this thread? sort of combine them?

[roland]

So I conducted a test. Opened a new build and placed 8 base plates in a 4x4 pattern, then started adding bricks (2x2) filling the plates. First save at 10k, then 15k then 1k+ incrementally. Got to 20k bricks and no problems. Opened a new file for base plates only. Placed a 10X10 layout and saved, then 15x15 and saved again. Then placed a 1 baseplate border saving after each border. Once I saved at 17X17 that was the furthest I could go. The most I managed to add was 5 base plates (all 32x32 dots) before the program shut down..

Did you keep an eye on LDD's memory consumption during this? As I still believe the main cause of these kinds of problems is the 32bit memory usage limit as I described above.

[jttnot]

Did you keep an eye on LDD's memory consumption during this? As I still believe the main cause of these kinds of problems is the 32bit memory usage limit as I described above.

I wouldn't even know where to look lol But how much memory could 289 pieces take up?