Bionicle 2015 Discussion

[MakutaOfWar]

^Niiiice. I like variety in armies. I guess that means Basher and Slicer could be like commanders under Kulta?

Edited July 19, 2015 by MakutaOfWar

[Toa_Bomb]

There are at least 2 Scorpio's, given the comic on the back of his box.

[Bbrink1996]

Where is everyone getting these sneak previews of the new book from? Anyone care to provide a link? Thanks!

I'd like to know as well. I'm looking on the amazon page but can't find anything? Or are you guys reading it through the Kindle app?

[Aanchir]

I'd like to know as well. I'm looking on the amazon page but can't find anything? Or are you guys reading it through the Kindle app?

Click the book cover on Amazon to read the preview. It probably doesn't work on mobile devices.

The first six pages are provided to everyone, with additional random pages for Amazon Prime members. The latter is where people are getting spoilers from the middle and end of the book from.

[Timeline15]

"Many have lost their masks to the skull spiders, and fallen under the control of the lord of skull spiders"

"My father told me stories about you and your sandstone blaster_tm" (In stores now!!)

Nice to finally have some names and world building, as well as a description of how the summoning took place, but god, the way it was written was really distracting. Barely any contractions were used, so the dialogue sounded a bit like those books you use to teach toddlers to read. :/

Still, not gonna complain about some focus on the villagers. particularly interesting that we get told the story from the PoV of a young jungle villager...

Edited July 19, 2015 by Timeline15

[Nekchir]

"Many have lost their masks to the skull spiders, and fallen under the control of the lord of skull spiders"

"My father told me stories about you and your sandstone blaster_tm" (In stores now!!)

Nice to finally have some names and world building, as well as a description of how the summoning took place, but god, the way it was written was really distracting. Barely any contractions were used, so the dialogue sounded a bit like those books you use to teach toddlers to read. :/

Still, not gonna complain about some focus on the villagers. particularly interesting that we get told the story from the PoV of a young jungle villager...

Sounds like there's lots of potential for the story to dive into some really dark, but not edgy, lore.

Though, it reads like everyone's talking with a strait-face.

[DraikNova]

"Many have lost their masks to the skull spiders, and fallen under the control of the lord of skull spiders"

"My father told me stories about you and your sandstone blaster_tm" (In stores now!!)

Nice to finally have some names and world building, as well as a description of how the summoning took place, but god, the way it was written was really distracting. Barely any contractions were used, so the dialogue sounded a bit like those books you use to teach toddlers to read. :/

Still, not gonna complain about some focus on the villagers. particularly interesting that we get told the story from the PoV of a young jungle villager...

I spent like ten minutes wondering which Protector PoV stood for. It helps that I read it as "the story of the PoV".

[Toa_Bomb]

I'm looking at the instructions for the Skull Army on the Lego Shop website, and I'm noticing that they're all really... short. Like I've built Skull Warrior's CCBS skeleton, and he's really short. I don't know what I'm doing wrong here, but he seems really short. Like, are the "bone" bones longer than I think or am I doing something wrong? Kulta's plenty tall but everyone else is dwarfed by Tahu.

Edited July 20, 2015 by Toa_Bomb

[Phoenix_Flare]

I'm looking at the instructions for the Skull Army on the Lego Shop website, and I'm noticing that they're all really... short. Like I've built Skull Warrior's CCBS skeleton, and he's really short. I don't know what I'm doing wrong here, but he seems really short.

They are actually short. They're about Stormer 2.0 height. I'm considering buying friction extender parts for their legs.

[wghost]

Kulta's plenty tall but everyone else is dwarfed by Tahu.

Exactly. VBBN's photos really capture the height difference perfectly. Except for Grinder, of course.

Edited July 20, 2015 by wghost

[TheDesuComplex]

They are actually short. They're about Stormer 2.0 height. I'm considering buying friction extender parts for their legs.

I was about to ask, are the bone-bones 6 modules long? Than I remembered that they already use friction extenders at the hips.

You mentioning adding them for length reminds me of an idea I had, that there should be pieces like friction extenders but without the extra friction, made solely to provide more length.

[Toa_Bomb]

Exactly. VBBN's photos really capture the height difference perfectly. Except for Grinder, of course.

Jeebus, SW's comically short. I'm gonna have to order longer limbs.

And I don't get how Kulta can have that super special build and only be as tall as Tahu. ;-; I was excited, lego

Edited July 20, 2015 by Toa_Bomb

[MakutaOfWar]

The heights don't bother me too much. Scorpio and Basher are pitted against Pohatu and Onua respectively and those figures are pretty damn short. Warrior is a soldier unit so there are plenty of them(story wise) to be a formidable menace to the Toa, but compared to Kopaka is off-putting, but like I said; multiple units. Did anybody complain about the Bohrok, Vahki, or Visorak heights? As for Slicer, I'm not too sure how his height is compared to Lewa but isn't he like two modules(right term?) smaller? If so, I can live with that. And then Kulta is even with Tahu so that's good enough for me.

[VBBN]

The biggest issue is that the new bone pieces are the same size as this piece and when you use that piece and the new bone piece the figure is still very short overall. Tahu is really tall (two friction extenders and much longer limbs) but is similar in height level to Lewa and Gali who are at the same price point as the Skullies, so it is disappointing that they are at an equal height to Pohatu. I think having at least one of the figures with longer limbs wouldn't have hurt, because this is one of the rare cases in which making a character taller and lankier isn't actually a bad thing.

Again though this echoes why I hate hero characters being so damn tall. I much preferred Hero 2.0 where they were a smaller size and in turn we could have much more imposing villains or at least make it easier for characters to all be at a similar size class.

[Mesonak]

Again though this echoes why I hate hero characters being so damn tall. I much preferred Hero 2.0 where they were a smaller size and in turn we could have much more imposing villains or at least make it easier for characters to all be at a similar size class.

Agreed completely. The first year and a half of HF nailed the formula perfectly.

RIP in Pieces

[One Very Agile Cat]

Jeebus, SW's comically short. I'm gonna have to order longer limbs.

And I don't get how Kulta can have that super special build and only be as tall as Tahu. ;-; I was excited, lego

Because the new bone pieces that make up part of at least every limb of every skull villain is only as long as the shortest HF limb capable of wearing armour. Kulta's legs are made of the shortest bones while Tahu uses the longest ones and two sets of extenders in his legs. I actually shortened my Tahu by one module because he was too tall for me. Edited July 20, 2015 by One Very Agile Cat

[Nekchir]

Some maple leaf has found the new sets in Canada.

[GK733]

Because the new bone pieces that make up part of at least every limb of every skull villain is only as long as the shortest HF limb capable of wearing armour. Kulta's legs are made of the shortest bones while Tahu uses the longest ones and two sets of extenders in his legs. I actually shortened my Tahu by one module because he was too tall for me.

Nah, it's not the legs. It's Tahu's super short torso compared to the rest of the figure. One of the things that could have helped it would had been a two part CCBS torso so the length could had been changed like with Piraka and onvards.

I mean, in concept art and other media they have released the figure is more humanoid and the torso is much longer. I find it rather weird when people give their MOCs lanky look and when asked it's not about wanting to make them lanky, but just taller. This really makes me scratch my head since the official sets do quite the opposite.

[bidiminished]

Nah, it's not the legs. It's Tahu's super short torso compared to the rest of the figure. One of the things that could have helped it would had been a two part CCBS torso so the length could had been changed like with Piraka and onvards.

I mean, in concept art and other media they have released the figure is more humanoid and the torso is much longer. I find it rather weird when people give their MOCs lanky look and when asked it's not about wanting to make them lanky, but just taller. This really makes me scratch my head since the official sets do quite the opposite.

If Tahu's torso was made proportionate to his legs and arms, he would be much taller than the rest of the toa. LEGO messed up the proportions with the 2015 toa, and this is mostly due to the lazy/cost-effective torso being too short and broad shouldered for the limbs.

[One Very Agile Cat]

Some maple leaf has found the new sets in Canada.

My hunt begins.

Nah, it's not the legs. It's Tahu's super short torso compared to the rest of the figure. One of the things that could have helped it would had been a two part CCBS torso so the length could had been changed like with Piraka and onvards.

The Piraka torso's couldn't be changed, height-wise. (unless you just meant two-part torsos in general, but I'd argue that started with the Metru)

And I feel like Tahu's arms and legs aren't too long at all. (well his legs were but I fixed them) then again, I may be conditioned by mecha anime and all that sponge, which elongate the legs and shorten the torso because it looks more dynamic, and that's what I feel like Bionicle has always been. They look... weird with human proportions.

If Tahu's torso was made proportionate to his legs and arms, he would be much taller than the rest of the toa. LEGO messed up the proportions with the 2015 toa, and this is mostly due to the lazy/cost-effective torso being too short and broad shouldered for the limbs.

Are you sure? Because they look pretty okay proportioned when you consider they're not supposed to be humans, or have human proportions. (Lewa has extra long arms, Pohatu's got shorter limbs, Onua was smashed with a hammer, etc.)

[Aanchir]

Jeebus, SW's comically short. I'm gonna have to order longer limbs.

And I don't get how Kulta can have that super special build and only be as tall as Tahu. ;-; I was excited, lego

What exactly is super-special about Kulta's build? Honest question. As I see it there's nothing particularly extraordinary about his build other than the chest plate sitting one module forward and two modules higher on the torso beam than it does for the other three humanoid skull villains.

Also, if you want to make Skull Warrior taller, the easiest way isn't to swap his limbs for longer ones but rather to add friction joints to both of his knees.

Personally, though, I think the shortness of the other skull villains is exaggerated by all those comparison shots, since Tahu is over two modules taller than an average Toa. I think a comparison to a more average-sized Toa like Gali or Lewa would give a better sense of their relative heights.

Here's a run-down of the character heights:

Warrior, Slicer, Basher, Pohatu, Onua: 23 modules

Gali, Lewa: 25 modules

Kopaka: 26 modules

Tahu, Grinder: 27 modules

Average Toa: 24.833 (24 and 5/6) modules

Average (Humanoid) Villain: 24 modules

Makuta of War is right that there's plenty of precedent for villains smaller than Toa — just look at the Bohrok, which at their tallest were about chest level on a typical Toa Mata, or the Vahki, which stood about 22 modules tall while the Toa Metru stood 24–26 modules tall (24.667 modules on average). Compared to those examples, villains that are less than one module shorter than the Toa on average aren't really all that bad.

As for the Toa, their proportions definitely have a lot of variation, and the proportions of Tahu and Onua in particular are extremely exaggerated. However, I don't think any of the Toa sets suffer for it — the slightly cartoony proportions actually suit them pretty well. I do agree that Tahu's proportions can be greatly improved by shortening his upper leg beams by one module, but I don't think this is a deal-breaker by any stretch of the imagination.

I disagree that the first year and a half of Hero Factory had it right in terms of price points. On the one hand, yes, villains always seemed larger and more formidable than the heroes. On the other hand, it meant that the heights and builds of the hero sets had little to no variation compared to the villain sets. Villains already often allow for more variety than heroes no matter what their price point because you can add "deformities" that might seem grotesque or unsettling on a hero character (like adding additional arms or legs, making one arm considerably longer or bulkier than the other, or even making them entirely non-humanoid), whereas it's much harder to work variety into heroes without raising their price point so you have a higher piece count to work with.

I think the Breakout series did a great thing by varying up the price points among both factions, which resulted in some fantastic set designs like Toxic Reapa (a $9 villain) or Bulk (a $13 hero). I don't see any reason that villain sets should be categorically more impressive than the heroes that are ostensibly the theme's main focus.

[DraikNova]

Onua is basically a dwarf. A dwarf is supposed to look like part of a mountain fell on them. But yeah, I generally prefer having larger villains. Heroes tend to be boring. However, sometimes it can lead to gems like Onua. I think I would like to see the price slots switched around annually, so that we can see how LEGO handles a bulky design in the $15 size or a speedy-looking one in a $20 size. But a main villain should always occupy a high price slot, higher than standard heroes. Even if they're small, a high price slot allows a designer to incorporate things integral to the character, and while heroes get several story arcs to flesh out their characters, villains barely get one. Might as well emphasize it in the set.

[Phoenix_Flare]

In terms of size and proportions, you gotta keep in mind that the Toa aren't Humans so of course they're going to have "strange proportions" (emphasis on the quotations). I'm not at all bothered by this so.... meh.

Also, the Skull fellas height could mean that these are defiantly not Toa or Protector. They're something else entirely! But what?

[Quisoves Pugnat]

Also, the Skull fellas height could mean that these are defiantly not Toa or Protector. They're something else entirely! But what?

Ah, so they're racists now, are they?

Height wouldn't strike me as the most obvious means of discrimination, especially for a children's toyline (Dr. Seuss used star-marks as an allegory for race, if I recall) but then, these are fantastical creatures we're talking about.

=P

[Takanuinuva]

Some maple leaf has found the new sets in Canada.

Do you know where specifically?