Bionicle 2015 Discussion

[Dorek]

Just wondering if this might be the 'Gift With Purchase' in March (I think its March)

That... would be a pretty amazing G1 throwback all right.

(Yeah, March, according to leaked documents)

[Leewan]

Just wondering if this might be the 'Gift With Purchase' in March (I think its March)

The chances to see the Vahi in the polybag are close to zero, because they won't produce a new part for a promo set (unless it appears later at some point in time (haha, time)). A small set, like in 2014, or a recolor of existing elements, like in 2013, are more likely, IMO.

Actually, I really think we'll get a black, or red, or purple spider, with another mask maybe. Perhaps Ekimu's gold / blue (not sure about the colors) Protector Mask. BTW, do you guys know when the march store calendar will appear ?

[Nekchir]

Just wondering if this might be the 'Gift With Purchase' in March (I think its March)

Like it has been said before this post, it's like a different-colored Skull Spider/mask, or a small set.

[Clone 01354 Productions]

The chances to see the Vahi in the polybag are close to zero, because they won't produce a new part for a promo set (unless it appears later at some point in time (haha, time)). A small set, like in 2014, or a recolor of existing elements, like in 2013, are more likely, IMO.

Actually, I really think we'll get a black, or red, or purple spider, with another mask maybe. Perhaps Ekimu's gold / blue (not sure about the colors) Protector Mask. BTW, do you guys know when the march store calendar will appear ?

It'll probably be red, since that is the only color from the comics that they haven't released.

I feel like LEGO is aware of the fan debate about the Vahi and posted this to show that it is just an easter egg and doesn't mean anything...

I agree. They would never directly state, "Oh, that's the Gen 1 Vahi in the new universe!" if it meant something. They are merely trying to show us that this is an easter egg, and that time is an important aspect of the new story. I would be furious if they linked the two generations (unless they go with my Makuta theory, which I thought was pretty nice).

Gen 1 is for our hearts. Gen 2 is for our wallets. Leave it that way.

[Scarilian]

The chances to see the Vahi in the polybag are close to zero, because they won't produce a new part for a promo set (unless it appears later at some point in time (haha, time)). A small set, like in 2014, or a recolor of existing elements, like in 2013, are more likely, IMO.

Actually, I really think we'll get a black, or red, or purple spider, with another mask maybe. Perhaps Ekimu's gold / blue (not sure about the colors) Protector Mask.

I suppose thats true, though would be a nice gift for older fans, having an updated Vahi that fits on the new mask.

I suppose if the Gen 2 Mask Of Time wont play too much of a part in the story we could get that in a polybag eventually?

Personally if its a set i'm banking on it being a small 'Skull warrior' essentially a very simplified protector build with a Skull Spider mask for a face. If its just a mask then either a Gold Protector Mask (Though the Mask Maker set might have this), Transparent Skull Spider mask or maybe a Transparent Protector Mask.

BTW, do you guys know when the march store calendar will appear ?

Not sure, normally they appear between the start and middle of the previous month. E.g. February Calendar appeared before 15th January

I agree. They would never directly state, "Oh, that's the Gen 1 Vahi in the new universe!" if it meant something. They are merely trying to show us that this is an easter egg, and that time is an important aspect of the new story.

Speaking from experience they tend to hide things in plain site such as the Mata Nui Robot, with characters literally making statements that confirm his existence as far back as MNOG before the reveal. Given the new target is to simplify the story and make it as obvious to kids as possible they may actually come out and state important story aspects in order to keep the young new fans up-to-date. Its a little foolish to reveal things, but i would'nt put it past them to hide things in plain site.

Edited January 20, 2015 by Scarilian

[zg0]

last hf polybag had 28 pieces. so possible we can get baby protector in upcoming polybag.

[TheDesuComplex]

Like it has been said before this post, it's like a different-colored Skull Spider/mask, or a small set.

It MIGHT be. It could be a red skull spider, a baby protector, a mask of time... Nothing has been confirmed and we will only know sometime when the March calendar comes out (sometime in the beginning of Febuary).

[Clone 01354 Productions]

Hey, did anyone else notice that the tribes were all united in the beginning? In the Legend video, the narrator says that "...all lived in harmony," while showing a picture of a fire, water, and jungle villager together in--the Ancient City? So, they were all one mega-village (like the one on Bara Magna), and they all split off into tribes after Makuta and Ekimu's death?

Also, what element are Ekimu and Makuta? In the same video mentioned above, he says that they are, "From the island's elemental forces.....", so we know that they DID belong to an element in the past, and didn't just fall out of the sky like gods.

So many questions!

[CabooseBM]

That's one thing that's really interesting to me, that the Toa don't necessarily know about each other and actually uniting into a team might not be as easy as we thought it'd be, I hope they spend some time exploring that.

[Dorek]

Personally I'm a bit tired of the "teamwork" shtick, having gone through every variation of that with BIONICLE and Hero Factory.

But it does make for good introductions, and will provide a more interesting counterpoint assuming we get a second team and they have to go through their own version. If we just stick with this team, though, I'd rather just get the formalities out of the way as soon as possible and get to the meat.

[Chro]

Also, what element are Ekimu and Makuta? In the same video mentioned above, he says that they are, "From the island's elemental forces.....", so we know that they DID belong to an element in the past, and didn't just fall out of the sky like gods.

I thought that was referring to the masks they made.

[Nekchir]

I thought that was referring to the masks they made.

True.

[ToaDraco]

Hey, did anyone else notice that the tribes were all united in the beginning? In the Legend video, the narrator says that "...all lived in harmony," while showing a picture of a fire, water, and jungle villager together in--the Ancient City? So, they were all one mega-village (like the one on Bara Magna), and they all split off into tribes after Makuta and Ekimu's death?

Also, what element are Ekimu and Makuta? In the same video mentioned above, he says that they are, "From the island's elemental forces.....", so we know that they DID belong to an element in the past, and didn't just fall out of the sky like gods.

So many questions!

It appears Makuta is of the Earth element while Ekimu is of the Ice element. It could also be that they are of elements that have yet to be revealed as part of the current canon, like Light, Shadow, Psionics, Gravity, Lightning, etc. I honestly doubt they will expand the elements much in gen2 but it would be pretty cool.

Also, I'm guessing the promo will be a red Skull Spider and perhaps a really simple villager.

[the last chronicler]

There is irony in making the extreme deduction that LEGO is pointing the hidden Vahi's out because they are only Easter Eggs, yet people cry a foul when someone (like me...) puts together the evidence and says there is just as much a potential connection between the gen 1 mask of time and gen 2's mask as there is a potential connection with the original Toa in gen 2.

Personally, I'm seeing Vader's position more clearly now, and plan to wait until the evidence is more solidly in favor of a soft reboot before I cry Vahi again, but I still think Vader and Scarilian are the extreme ends of this argument and are fueled by negativity (or close mindedness?) and animosity.

The fact is Bionicle's quality is up to the way the writers handle it, and therefore a Bionicle either unconnected or connected could bring great things.

[TheGreatSpirit]

Wait a polybag? When was this confirmed?

[Leewan]

I suppose thats true, though would be a nice gift for older fans, having an updated Vahi that fits on the new mask.

I suppose if the Gen 2 Mask Of Time wont play too much of a part in the story we could get that in a polybag eventually?

The problem is that the MoT requires a new mold, and it would be too expensive for Lego to create this mold and produce the part to put it in a free set. It happened in G1, though (Movie Edition Kraahkan, Vahi, and perhaps some others I don't recall). But because of this, as I said, a MoT polybag is very unlikely unless Lego releases it in a future set.

It would be cool to have it in orange, though, and in gold in a future Master of Time set.

Not sure, normally they appear between the start and middle of the previous month. E.g. February Calendar appeared before 15th January

Thanks. So in three weeks we'll know. Hope it'll pop up on brickset before.

It MIGHT be. It could be a red skull spider, a baby protector, a mask of time... Nothing has been confirmed and we will only know sometime when the March calendar comes out (sometime in the beginning of Febuary).

A baby protector, that would be cute.

Wait a polybag? When was this confirmed?

Shortly after Christmas.

[dviddy]

There is irony in making the extreme deduction that LEGO is pointing the hidden Vahi's out because they are only Easter Eggs, yet people cry a foul when someone (like me...) puts together the evidence and says there is just as much a potential connection between the gen 1 mask of time and gen 2's mask as there is a potential connection with the original Toa in gen 2.

Personally, I'm seeing Vader's position more clearly now, and plan to wait until the evidence is more solidly in favor of a soft reboot before I cry Vahi again, but I still think Vader and Scarilian are the extreme ends of this argument and are fueled by negativity (or close mindedness?) and animosity.

The fact is Bionicle's quality is up to the way the writers handle it, and therefore a Bionicle either unconnected or connected could bring great things.

My position is fueled from having been aware of the story for more than six months, the NYCC panel, and official sources such as the new story writers and even Greg. All official comment is that this is a reboot and a new canon. Anything else is speculation mixed with willful ignorance.

To elaborate, since I am allowed to these days, the story team spoke very openly in our discussions prior to NYCC about raising the 01-03 story eras for new ideas and storytelling, because those parts truly defined the line in the company's mind, and also far and away outsold anything else. They wanted a reboot to recapture the simplicity and the mystery, and talked a lot about stealing concepts from the early years and repurposing them in the new story. They felt the latter years grew messy and convoluted, and the more dark and edgy tone was opposed to the line's spirit as they saw it.

To me, and the rest of the BZP staff at NYCC and the two under NDA with me, that screams solid reboot entirely. Is it possible TLG will leave the door open for fans to connect as they see fit? Sure. But I don't remotely think they want a connection outside of a spiritual one, as it were.

[CabooseBM]

I'm pretty glad the Mask of Time looks to be getting a lot of use in the reboot, I felt it was pretty underused in G1 for being a "Legendary" mask, being side items in both 03 and 04.

(Of course, it being underused in G1 just means it's fresher when G2 makes it more prominent, so.)

Edited January 20, 2015 by CabooseBM

[Timeline15]

I feel like the temple of time plucked the toa from the original timeline, but that LEGO is never going to outright say that, leaving only the older fans to know where they actually came from.

Oh, and something intriguing thing about the story: How did Ekimu, who, as far as we know, is just a guy who makes masks, know about the toa? The protectors had never heard of them before being told the prophecy, so it's assumed they never visited Okoto before. How would Ekimu have ever learnt about them?

[the last chronicler]

Sorry Vader, I know you have strong knowledge about this, I'm just not sure how many years forward Lego is thinking for this and I just think that the current information already leaves some open-ended potential for a connection. Nothing is for sure when a story team has a many-year line planned, and I think that even you would find it ridiculous to create far-reaching claims without far-reaching evidence, and your testimony is currently isolated and just as uncorroborated as TTV's .

Lego has said they want to keep Bionicle's early style/simplicity, which one could argue lends to no connection, but that's only a correlation. I would argue some aspects, like the Legend and the inclusion of time-space travel are already more complex than 01, and that in fact the reduction of complexity leans more toward the terminology. Even if the reveal of the Toa's origin only played a role in the new series' finale or something, you could write a reasonable time travel finale that plays to old and new fans.

PS: If you are arguing with me because you want to spare my time or effort because inside info please stop, because this isn't about me wanting Gen1->Gen2, it's that I genuinely feel that the evidence is currently up in the air. If you know something but trying to convince fans to forget the theory by fighting it that obviously won't work either.

[Mesonak]

your testimony is currently isolated and just as uncorroborated as TTV's.

Although I personally agree with the spirit of what you're saying, in the interest of being fair to all parties, I'd say that DV's direct line of contact with Lego months in advance outweighs our one-off conversation with Jordan Paxton in terms of reliability. Although we're inclined to believe the Vahi theory ourselves, benefit of the doubt should be given to those who spoke with far more people than we did until proven otherwise.

With that being said, I think this is a multi-layered issue; I can see both sides of the discussion. Truth be told, I don't think the constant debate is really going to get anyone anywhere. If Lego intends for this to be a complete reboot, then things will remain as they are and the Vahi will simply be an easter egg. If Lego ends up revealing that their secret plot twist all along was to connect the universes and the unflinching claims of a reboot were just smokescreens to preserve surprise, we likely won't know definitively for a long time. If it all ends up simply being intentional easter eggs, references, and implications designed to allow the fans to interpret for themselves what they think it all means, that's cool too and doesn't devalue Lego's attempts a reboot OR a "continuation."

I know we're all starved for information right now, and it's really not my place to advocate the ceasing of discussion because I typically enjoy conversations like these (and because everybody's free to discuss whatever they'd like until mods say otherwise). With that being said, I think debating this in a circular fashion over and over isn't doing anybody any good. Be it mere easter eggs, deliberate hinting, or ambiguous referencing, no new info on the matter will come for quite a while. So I think it'd be best for everybody if we moved along for now.

Edited January 20, 2015 by Mesonak

[Aethersprite]

Was anyone here at London Toy Fair? Assuming Bionicle sets were shown there, that is.

[Scarilian]

There is irony in making the extreme deduction that LEGO is pointing the hidden Vahi's out because they are only Easter Eggs, yet people cry a foul when someone (like me...) puts together the evidence and says there is just as much a potential connection between the gen 1 mask of time and gen 2's mask as there is a potential connection with the original Toa in gen 2.

Personally, I'm seeing Vader's position more clearly now, and plan to wait until the evidence is more solidly in favor of a soft reboot before I cry Vahi again, but I still think Vader and Scarilian are the extreme ends of this argument and are fueled by negativity (or close mindedness?) and animosity.

The fact is Bionicle's quality is up to the way the writers handle it, and therefore a Bionicle either unconnected or connected could bring great things.

The official comments claiming that that this is a reboot, yet how much of a reboot is up for debate. I dont believe a connection is certain, i just hope that they do something with the constant refrences to time. Would i find it nice if they announced a connection in the future, yes. Do i believe the story can only be good if its connected, no.

Personally i believe its open ended at the moment, hence why we are unlikely to get an official statement that denies the potential for a connected universe, though i support the idea that they could possibly connect it in the future if they desired.

In addition i dont view myself as 'negativity (or close mindedness?) and animosity.' and i am not filled with 'willful ignorance' as Vader states either, If anything the one's throwing insults at those who are discussing in a discussion topic are filled with more negativity, animosity, close mindedness and ignorance than i am.

I can understand choosing to state in a discussion topic that you dont plan to discuss things because you are waiting on official statments, yet insulting others and stopping them discussing it results in the topic remaining silent and nobody can discuss anything without petty insults being thrown at them from you or Vader.

Whether they will specifically state that the generations are connected we cannot be sure of, however isnt it more fun to discuss the possibility rather than just sit and do nothing other than insult those speculating while waiting for more official announcements that may not come for many years. Once we get an official announcement then we know for sure, but until then why not talk about things in the flow of the discussion and keep the community active? Alternatively if you dont plan on discussing anything, then atleast have the decency not to insult people for discussing it.

I feel like the temple of time plucked the toa from the original timeline, but that LEGO is never going to outright say that, leaving only the older fans to know where they actually came from.

Oh, and something intriguing thing about the story: How did Ekimu, who, as far as we know, is just a guy who makes masks, know about the toa? The protectors had never heard of them before being told the prophecy, so it's assumed they never visited Okoto before. How would Ekimu have ever learnt about them?

Theory;

Going under the belief that the Toa are the only ones who Time Travel

- The Toa were summoned from the future, have memory loss, summoned to Present Day, they learn of the prophecy and then travel to the Past for reasons and become the creators of the prophecy.

- The Toa were summoned from the Past, have memory loss, summoned to Present Day, they learn of the prophecy and eventually travel back to the Past becomming the creators of the prophecy

- The Jungle Protectors using their 'tails' to predict a prophecy where the Toa arrive in Present Day, which Ekimu believes and thus the prophecy is created

Was anyone here at London Toy Fair? Assuming Bionicle sets were shown there, that is.

Try here, though at the moment no news on Bionicle;

http://brickfanatics.co.uk/london-toy-fair-2015-report/

Edited January 20, 2015 by Scarilian

[Logan McOwen]

My position is fueled from having been aware of the story for more than six months, the NYCC panel, and official sources such as the new story writers and even Greg. All official comment is that this is a reboot and a new canon. Anything else is speculation mixed with willful ignorance.

To elaborate, since I am allowed to these days, the story team spoke very openly in our discussions prior to NYCC about raising the 01-03 story eras for new ideas and storytelling, because those parts truly defined the line in the company's mind, and also far and away outsold anything else. They wanted a reboot to recapture the simplicity and the mystery, and talked a lot about stealing concepts from the early years and repurposing them in the new story. They felt the latter years grew messy and convoluted, and the more dark and edgy tone was opposed to the line's spirit as they saw it.

To me, and the rest of the BZP staff at NYCC and the two under NDA with me, that screams solid reboot entirely. Is it possible TLG will leave the door open for fans to connect as they see fit? Sure. But I don't remotely think they want a connection outside of a spiritual one, as it were.

Boom. Thank you.

[Leewan]

Try here, though at the moment no news on Bionicle;

http://brickfanatics...ir-2015-report/

How surprising.

Also, why the Toa would create the prophecy ?