Bionicle 2015 Discussion

[Dorek]

Oh, so in the Blue Skull Spider bio on BIONICLE.com, it does confirm that Skull Spiders control their victims minds. Cool!

[Toa of Gallifrey]

Skull Spiders in Half-Life 3 confirmed?

[Logan McOwen]

Ok, so I'm not sure if this has been discussed before, but you guys know that lovely concept painting? With the Toa looking off towards the city ruins? Well, I noticed something...

Looks like a face, doesn't it? A quite skull-like face, right? Right?

[Dorek]

... Iiiiiinteresting. I was more focusing on what I guess is the "nostril" part which sort of looks like a stylized Mask of Creation (or perhaps something else!) but now I see what you're getting at... huh.

[Nekchir]

Looks really cool. I wonder if it's the Mask of Time. (G2 of course. :0)

[Kalhiki]

I actually pointed that out a long time ago (around when we first saw the Skull Mask on the magazine).

Still, it is a fascinating development. I'm still convinced the Skull Army is in the ancient city.

[MightySlickPancake]

Ok, so I'm not sure if this has been discussed before, but you guys know that lovely concept painting? With the Toa looking off towards the city ruins? Well, I noticed something...

*pic removed*

Looks like a face, doesn't it? A quite skull-like face, right? Right?

Thats the Mask of ultimate power!

[Aanchir]

...but seeing that winning entry just makes me realise we're unlikely to get good main villains in the coming years and they'll probably all just be generic black and red sets.

Not gonna discuss the contest here in particular because there's a separate topic for that, but I do have to point out here that there's nothing wrong with "generic black and red" villains. It's certainly not anything classic BIONICLE shied away from. Griping about villains being black and red is kind of like griping about fire characters being red and orange. Color schemes like that are well-established cultural shorthand for those kinds of characters and concepts.

Of course, tropes like that can be (and ARE) subverted. Hero Factory's last main villain was Black, Medium Azur, Tr. Flu. Green, and Warm Gold, and its underlings were all the colors of the rainbow. In fact, the only "main villain" in the Hero Factory theme who was primarily black and red was Black Phantom. Ninjago's Overlord (and in fact, many of its major villains) have frequently made great use of the colors black, white, and purple, with red used sparingly. Legends of Chima's most recent main villain was Sir Fangar, whose color scheme consisted mostly of White and Tr. Light Blue. So assuming BIONICLE will never break from the "red and black equals evil" trope is a bit premature.

However, at the same time, color schemes are often used to convey meaning, and so they generally aren't chosen arbitrarily. Black and red are conveniently associated with evil: black because of its association with darkness and the unknown, red because of its association with blood, fire, and (consequently) danger or violence. Hero Factory, Ninjago, and Legends of Chima have likewise used white in major villain designs in part for its association with bones. Ninjago's Overlord and Hero Factory's Queen Beast used gold for its association with power and authority. But black and red villains are ubiquitous for a reason, and the ubiquity of the trope adds to its power.

[GK733]

A change would still be great. But I'm okay with grinder because the other skullguys don't follow the same path.

Though I really would had like a different color choice for basher, now it's just an evil Onua.

[dviddy]

Its also a little unfortunate the winner was lucky enough to not only attend NYCC but also be a VIP in order to get the 2015 parts early for the MOC. I just kind of thought the winner would be someone who hadnt had the luck to attend NYCC and someone who would view the golden mask and the 2015 sets as the ultimate prize and not something they could get themselves with spare cash.

Roa was not at NYCC (though I am certain she would have been on the VIP list). She received the parts she used the same way I received the first batch of parts including the silver boomerangs: directly from TLG because of her prominence in the MOCing community. She has been under NDA involving the return of BIONICLE for a very long time.

Regardless of how much I just do not enjoy the visual design of her MOCs, her talents and skills have always been on display and she's been a recognizable member of the MOCing community even amongst the system-only obsessed AFOL world for a long time. She's a talented engineer and her work displays her knack for interlocking structure and stability better than anyone else in the world.

Regarding the image on the concept art poster, I know the concept of it as a face or mask was posted eons ago in Internet time, but the connection to that skull-like mask from the magazine insert is pretty uncanny. I definitely think there's a connection there.

Edited January 14, 2015 by Darth Vader

[Clone 01354 Productions]

Wait a second: LOOK AT THE EYES!!!!

Thats the Mask of ultimate power!

The eyes look different from the current ones. If you compare, this has narrower, more vertical eyes. Maybe I'm wrong, but it would be pretty sick to have different heads for the villains.

[dviddy]

I have the head in front of me- that's definitely the current head.

[Scarilian]

Oh, so in the Blue Skull Spider bio on BIONICLE.com, it does confirm that Skull Spiders control their victims minds. Cool!

Personally that seems a little silly, i got the general idea that when they latch on they can manipulate the body. But having the victim be mind controlled kind of weakens the point of having the Skull Spiders latch onto someone's face.

-snip,MOC'ing talk-

I stopped talking about this when directed to another topic. You should probably do the same.

The eyes look different from the current ones. If you compare, this has narrower, more vertical eyes. Maybe I'm wrong, but it would be pretty sick to have different heads for the villains.

I have the head in front of me- that's definitely the current head.

In which case the CGI image is inconsistent as the eyes on the CGI image are more flat while the eyes on 'generic skull spider' are tilted making the eyes and mouth form a 'Y' shape.

Not gonna discuss the contest here in particular because there's a separate topic for that, but I do have to point out here that there's nothing wrong with "generic black and red" villains. It's certainly not anything classic BIONICLE shied away from. Griping about villains being black and red is kind of like griping about fire characters being red and orange. Color schemes like that are well-established cultural shorthand for those kinds of characters and concepts.

Of course, tropes like that can be (and ARE) subverted. Hero Factory's last main villain was Black, Medium Azur, Tr. Flu. Green, and Warm Gold, and its underlings were all the colors of the rainbow. In fact, the only "main villain" in the Hero Factory theme who was primarily black and red was Black Phantom. Ninjago's Overlord (and in fact, many of its major villains) have frequently made great use of the colors black, white, and purple, with red used sparingly. Legends of Chima's most recent main villain was Sir Fangar, whose color scheme consisted mostly of White and Tr. Light Blue. So assuming BIONICLE will never break from the "red and black equals evil" trope is a bit premature.

However, at the same time, color schemes are often used to convey meaning, and so they generally aren't chosen arbitrarily. Black and red are conveniently associated with evil: black because of its association with darkness and the unknown, red because of its association with blood, fire, and (consequently) danger or violence. Hero Factory, Ninjago, and Legends of Chima have likewise used white in major villain designs in part for its association with bones. Ninjago's Overlord and Hero Factory's Queen Beast used gold for its association with power and authority. But black and red villains are ubiquitous for a reason, and the ubiquity of the trope adds to its power.

While the basic elemental heroes need to remain as such to be easily recogniseable to children, the villains have had variations. Which is why it disappoints me that the main three villains of 2015 Bionicle are the Black and Trans-Red/Orange LoSS, the Black and Red Skull Grinder and the Black and Red Makuta. Granted we get occasional variations but most the time we revert back to Black and Red and given they've used that formula so much its no longer what i'd call unique.

I understand the meaning behind the different colour schemes, however using very generic colour schemes like black and red so often it ended up weakening the meaning so black and red is no longer a trope that adds power but instead a reminder that i'll have a thousand spare black and CCBS armour pieces to go along with my black and red Bionicle pieces. If the trope is indeed something Lego is aware of then it likely means they'd choose more black and red villains in the future.

It also doesnt help that at this stage every black and red design of a Bionicle set has been done except for potentially a multi-armed monster, though i'm pretty sure a combo model of that exists. The point being that if TLG believe the most 'unique' and 'creative' villain in the entirety of their entries was a red and black demonic beast that seems to resemble Makuta from Legends Of Metru Nui then i worry for the future of the new Bionicle sets. Its essentially them telling fans that the most unique and creative villains for the new wave of Bionicle are what we've already had.

Edited January 15, 2015 by Scarilian

[coolcab1]

Where in Mata Nui's name did this come from?

[mysteriouspi]

Personally that seems a little silly, i got the general idea that when they latch on they can manipulate the body. But having the victim be mind controlled kind of weakens the point of having the Skull Spiders latch onto someone's face.

Mind control allows them to control the body too. That's how both the infected masks and the krana worked in Gen 1, it makes sense that the skull spiders would be able to do similar. How does that weaken the point?

In which case the CGI image is inconsistent as the eyes on the CGI image are more flat while the eyes on 'generic skull spider' are tilted making the eyes and mouth form a 'Y' shape.

Are you talking about the eyeholes of the masks? I think DV's talking about the heads themselves, not comparing the mask in that image to the skull spiders. They do seem to be the same heads; the way the eyes tilt at the edges as well as how narrow they are make it appear so.

Where in Mata Nui's name did this come from?

Ooh shiny. Can't say I've seen it before but it's good to see the Toa together as a group. Don't think that's happened yet in the animations.

[Clone 01354 Productions]

I have the head in front of me- that's definitely the current head.

I don't think so. I also have the heads in front of me, and while they do share similarities, such as spacing and general shape, the angle is completely different. I mean, in the photo, the eyes can be seen where the nostrils are, implying that the eyes go past the nose (or maybe there is no nose).....these eyes are definitely longer and more vertical.

Where in Mata Nui's name did this come from?

I hope that's official, and not just some random fan art. And if you look at the red eyes in the corner....4 of them. I knew I was right: that mystery mask DOES have 4 eyes!! (I don't know why people thought it was a nose--why would a nose glow red?)

[Scarilian]

I hope that's official, and not just some random fan art. And if you look at the red eyes in the corner....4 of them. I knew I was right: that mystery mask DOES have 4 eyes!! (I don't know why people thought it was a nose--why would a nose glow red?)

WRONG. The mystery summer mask does not have four eyes and neither does the display picture mask.

The mystery mask has two eyes and two slits for a nose that show the red. As per the Skull Light;

This image with the gold toa does have 4 eyes but its from an entirely different mask/face, the mask/face of the Lord Of Skull Spiders as shown on his printing.

Where in Mata Nui's name did this come from?

-Snip-

Judging from the location the images was got plus the 'play' sign on the front my guess is that it'd be the display image for the video animations for Bionicles Winter wave. Its definitely based on the Winter Wave only though given the Lord Of Skull Spiders eyes on the top right.

Mind control allows them to control the body too. That's how both the infected masks and the krana worked in Gen 1, it makes sense that the skull spiders would be able to do similar. How does that weaken the point?

Mind control is silly when you dont do anything with it. If its mind control then that also implies when the Skull Spider goes onto the face it directly has the ability to tamper with the brain, yet they are knocked off easily. So it weakens the point of them latching onto the face if once they are on the face they can instantly take over the hosts mind before the host can react and yet be knocked off easily without any reprocussions.

Are you talking about the eyeholes of the masks? I think DV's talking about the heads themselves, not comparing the mask in that image to the skull spiders. They do seem to be the same heads; the way the eyes tilt at the edges as well as how narrow they are make it appear so.

DV should have been more clear then as i was not the only one to believe he was talking about the masks.

Edited January 15, 2015 by Scarilian

[Nekchir]

I don't think so. I also have the heads in front of me, and while they do share similarities, such as spacing and general shape, the angle is completely different. I mean, in the photo, the eyes can be seen where the nostrils are, implying that the eyes go past the nose (or maybe there is no nose).....these eyes are definitely longer and more vertical.

I hope that's official, and not just some random fan art. And if you look at the red eyes in the corner....4 of them. I knew I was right: that mystery mask DOES have 4 eyes!! (I don't know why people thought it was a nose--why would a nose glow red?)

Edited January 15, 2015 by MonkeyChud

[Aanchir]

Oh, so in the Blue Skull Spider bio on BIONICLE.com, it does confirm that Skull Spiders control their victims minds. Cool!

Great to have confirmation! I imagine the same will be added to the other Skull Spider pages before long.

It's a bit silly that it has four images with the same header text ("Beware the Creepy Skull Spider") and description. One for each set that includes a blue skull spider, of course, so it's not a glitch, just a slightly goofy way of presenting the info.

Where in Mata Nui's name did this come from? http://biosector01.com/wiki/images/9/9b/2015_Animations_Header.png

LEGO.com homepage. It was up there as one of the "highlights" as recently as yesterday, and unfortunately, there was not any version without the big play button in the middle. The new BIONICLE frontpage highlight just includes a picture of the Tahu set (with the uncomfortable-sounding caption "Explore Tahu").

Edited January 15, 2015 by Aanchir

[Nekchir]

Great to have confirmation! I imagine the same will be added to the other Skull Spider pages before long.

It's a bit silly that it has four images with the same header text ("Beware the Creepy Skull Spider") and description. One for each set that includes a blue skull spider, of course, so it's not a glitch, just a slightly goofy way of presenting the info.

LEGO.com homepage. It was up there as one of the "highlights" as recently as yesterday, and unfortunately, there was not any version without the big play button in the middle. The new BIONICLE frontpage highlight just includes a picture of the Tahu set (with the uncomfortable-sounding caption "Explore Tahu").

Very...Interesting. Hmmm.

[dviddy]

DV should have been more clear then as i was not the only one to believe he was talking about the masks.

Post above mine: "We're getting a new head with the villain sets"

My post: "it's the same head as the current ones"

How is that not clear enough for you, Mr Guy-who-is-overly-difficult-for-no-reason-but-to-be-difficult? Do you have anything of worth to add to any of these discussions that's not something awfully contrary at all times?

[Dorek]

Great to have confirmation! I imagine the same will be added to the other Skull Spider pages before long.

It's a bit silly that it has four images with the same header text ("Beware the Creepy Skull Spider") and description. One for each set that includes a blue skull spider, of course, so it's not a glitch, just a slightly goofy way of presenting the info.

Yeah, I thought that was a bit odd too. Oh well. Lewa confirmed for evil, amirite?

LEGO.com homepage. It was up there as one of the "highlights" as recently as yesterday, and unfortunately, there was not any version without the big play button in the middle. The new BIONICLE frontpage highlight just includes a picture of the Tahu set (with the uncomfortable-sounding caption "Explore Tahu").

That one, that I uploaded, was actually labeled as "mobile" and they had a longer version for the web browser banner, although still with the annoying play button. Don't remember seeing it as a highlight before then, but I don't check every day. Glad I managed to grab them before they took them down.

It's definitely LOSS in the corner, although the resemblance to the official key art must be deliberate.

[DuckBricks]

I don't think so. I also have the heads in front of me, and while they do share similarities, such as spacing and general shape, the angle is completely different. I mean, in the photo, the eyes can be seen where the nostrils are, implying that the eyes go past the nose (or maybe there is no nose).....these eyes are definitely longer and more vertical.

I hope that's official, and not just some random fan art. And if you look at the red eyes in the corner....4 of them. I knew I was right: that mystery mask DOES have 4 eyes!! (I don't know why people thought it was a nose--why would a nose glow red?)

It's from Lego.com

EDIT: Nevermind, Kapura'd

Edited January 15, 2015 by legozebra

[Takanuinuva]

Just ordered all 6 toa and the protector of stone. They should arrive by next Tuesday. Can't wait to build them and try out the new masks and gear functions. I've had some mod ideas for them for a while.

Not sure what summer sets i'll be getting but if Mask Maker vs Skull Grinder has the Mocr. I'll definitely get that set.

[arc]

Not sure what summer sets i'll be getting but if Mask Maker vs Skull Grinder has the Mocr. I'll definitely get that set.

the way they've been advertising the mask of Creation, I'm positive it'll be in that set. I'm just hoping skull grinder turns out good, because I'll be getting the set for ekimu either way.