Bionicle 2015 Discussion

[Logan McOwen]

Sorry, I haven't been keeping up with the discussion but does anybody know if this set is going to get released and when its coming out? Thanks.

[Mecheon]

Mecheon, no I didn't see animated, it was a kiddy homage fest. Worst move Hasbro made.

It was made by a massive G1 fan, who threw clips from G1 (War Dawn specifically) in as wartime propaganda. You have quite literately missed out on the best Transformers series since Beast Wars

Isn't there some rule about arachnids, maybe scorpions in particular... the smaller they are, the worse their venom? :P

Smaller the pincers, worse the venom. Bigger pincers means they'd use those more, while scorpions with small pincers rely on the venom

Does not apply to spiders. While some small ones can be poisonous, on the other end of the scale you've got the Funnelweb

[Mandate]

After seeing BZP's second unboxing video, I'm a lot more excited for LOSS now. It would be even cooler if the designers managed to allow LOSS' four back legs to move independently along that axle, very unlikely but if they implemented it (almost certain they didn't, it would be incredibly hard) it would one of the best sets of the wave function-wise.

Edited November 11, 2014 by JayWalker

[Dinobrick]

Mecheon, it was too kiddy for me. Ok?

[Mandate]

So anyway, what do you guys think of the positioning of Ga-Koro? I love that it's underwater this time. Adds so much more depth (no pun intended) to the concept of a water-themed tribe, and really gives way to a whole bunch of potential plot twists. It also looks really cool, if not somewhat stupid (roofs? Underwater? Really LEGO?)

[gedren_y]

Well, roofs underwater serve a different function. Keeping lesser dense materials from floating away being an important one.

[Kalhiki]

So anyway, what do you guys think of the positioning of Ga-Koro? I love that it's underwater this time. Adds so much more depth (no pun intended) to the concept of a water-themed tribe, and really gives way to a whole bunch of potential plot twists. It also looks really cool, if not somewhat stupid (roofs? Underwater? Really LEGO?)

Makes me wonder if they all can breathe underwater or if it's Mahri Nui-esque and they need to collect air (or pump it in from the surface).

Either way, it's nice to see an underwater village. But I hope there are still some surface dwellers in the Water Tribe complete with lily pad huts.

[TheLazyChicken]

That is a fake.

Oh, ok. Thanks.

[Agent Fusion]

Makes me wonder if they all can breathe underwater or if it's Mahri Nui-esque and they need to collect air (or pump it in from the surface).

From the Water Protector:

The Skull Spider is trying to burst the bubbles of the Protectors’ underwater village.

[Tazakk]

(roofs? Underwater? Really LEGO?)

Gotta keep out the Skull Spiders somehow.

[Nekchir]

If Sasuke were there, he'd protect everyone.

[dviddy]

Mecheon, it was too kiddy for me. Ok?

It was literally the most mature TF story since BM, on par with Beast Wars. You let the animation turn you away from one of the best cartoons this past decade.

The idea that any of this new BIONICLE stuff might be "too kiddy" drives me crazy. It is a toy line for kids. Come on.

[Dinobrick]

Not just the animation, the toys and characterization. Can we drop this?

Bionicle is a toyline with ten years of fans behind it. Many of who are adults now, and (like me) don't like the simplifying and kiddifying of the toys and characters they love.

Edited November 11, 2014 by Dinobrick

[TheDesuComplex]

Bionicle is a toyline with ten years of fans behind it. Many of who are adults now, and (like me) don't like the simplifying and kiddifying of the toys and characters they love.

This Bionicle is chiefly made for NEW fans in mind, not old fans. Especially not old fans who whine about change.

(To bring in another Transformers example... 'TRUKK NOT MUNKY' really sticks with me as an example of people who react negatively to change.)

Yes, there can be nods and some things carried over from the old story. But if it were exactly the same, it would fail just as the old story did.

The new story is bout IMPROVEMENT- finding out what works (island setting, mask flinging) and what doesn't (giant robot universes, needlessly complicated back stories).

Edited November 11, 2014 by TheDesuComplex

[Kalhiki]

Y'know what would have been nice? If Kopaka had a shield like Brain Attack Rocka's. He could have the blades he currently has, but also a round shield like old. Then the blades could be removed and used as skis, and he'd still be able to have his shield.

Too bad that shield piece was never released in white. Heck, I'd even settle for silver.

[Dinobrick]

First off, I am not whining.

Second off, I was at the pointed end of TRUKK NOT MUNKY! Being from the beast era.

Third off, bionicle didn't fail, it was cut off (OK, glatorians were a fail).

Forth off, what is wrong with complex stories? Those are the best kind, impho. (In my personally honest opinion). But perhaps as a kid would preffered to read medical (and zoological) books over, say, magic tree house, I view the world differently.

Edited November 11, 2014 by Dinobrick

[Aanchir]

Don't forget the Tarakava lizards, which looked nothing like lizards :P

Tarakava were definitely one of the harder Rahi to wrap your brain around. After all, they didn't look like lizards or even behave much like lizards! Perhaps some of the questions about what they're based on would be answered if we knew where their name came from. The best I could figure is that their towering design and aquatic habitat were based on giant monsters like Godzilla, albeit made much skinnier so the body could function as a handle.

Well, roofs underwater serve a different function. Keeping lesser dense materials from floating away being an important one.

Also to help shelter the inhabitants from predators! Even many sea creatures prefer shelter of some kind. That's why octopi lay their eggs in caves, where they can protect them more easily.

Bionicle is a toyline with ten years of fans behind it. Many of who are adults now, and (like me) don't like the simplifying and kiddifying of the toys and characters they love.

But the new story isn't necessarily that much more childish than the old one. Both were aimed at kids, after all. The new story is just reducing some of the things about the old story that caused problems for kids even back in generation one.

No, BIONICLE certainly didn't fail. It remained successful for a long time, and ended because the LEGO Group realized its success was rapidly running out and didn't want it to be remembered by retailers as a failed franchise. But there are still definitely ways it could have been improved. After all, there were a lot of people who bought the sets but didn't follow the story because it was either too complex or too inaccessible. Making the new story open to more people could help it be even more successful than it was originally, and hold onto that success for even longer.

As for the sets, the new BIONICLE sets are more complex from a construction standpoint than characters like them have ever been. Many of the greebly details have been smoothed out for consistency's sake, but I see that as making the designs more polished and less cluttered. Certainly it's not something that makes them childish in any way, because there's nothing inherently more "grown-up" about one aesthetic or the other.

Y'know what would have been nice? If Kopaka had a shield like Brain Attack Rocka's. He could have the blades he currently has, but also a round shield like old. Then the blades could be removed and used as skis, and he'd still be able to have his shield.

Too bad that shield piece was never released in white. Heck, I'd even settle for silver.

The shield piece actually WAS released in white, albeit with printing. That was the FIRST color it appeared in, in the Captain America set.

[VBBN]

Third off, bionicle didn't fail, it was cut off (OK, glatorians were a fail).

Until you bring us financial proof that the Glatorian were a failure, you may want to retract that statement

Forth off, what is wrong with complex stories? Those are the best kind, impho. (In my personally honest opinion). But perhaps as a kid would preffered to read medical (and zoological) books over, say, magic tree house, I view the world differently.

Complex stories are great, but not for a 10-year long toyline. How is a 7 year old supposed to suddenly learn 10 years worth of comics, movies, books, serials, etc? Lego cannot try to cater a line to people who are getting older. Only a small percentage of people who grew up with Bionicle in the day still are going to remain serious fans to this day. Complex stories quickly alienate the news fans from the old, and from a marketing and financial standpoint, focusing the sales of sets on a younger group of buyers is the smartest and most logical decision. A complex story does not lend well to that.

[Dinobrick]

Until you bring us financial proof that the Glatorian were a failure, you may want to retract that statement

Complex stories are great, but not for a 10-year long toyline. How is a 7 year old supposed to suddenly learn 10 years worth of comics, movies, books, serials, etc? Lego cannot try to cater a line to people who are getting older. Only a small percentage of people who grew up with Bionicle in the day still are going to remain serious fans to this day. Complex stories quickly alienate the news fans from the old, and from a marketing and financial standpoint, focusing the sales of sets on a younger group of buyers is the smartest and most logical decision. A complex story does not lend well to that.

I will do no such thing.

Ehem. If I, at only five, could read at a sixth grade level, then a seven year old could certainly read and understand a ten year storyline. Heck, when I was ten, I read at a high school level. Are you implying that kids today are stupid? That they cannot grasp any storyline longer than a year?

Edited November 11, 2014 by Dinobrick

[Lyichir]

I will do no such thing.

Ehem. If I, at only five, could read at a sixth grade level, then a seven year old could certainly read and understand a ten year storyline. Heck, when I was ten, I read at a high school level. Are you implying that kids today are stupid? That they cannot grasp any storyline longer than a year?

No, you've got his point all wrong. He's saying that kids who get into the theme in its seventh or eighth year can't realistically be expected to catch up on everything that came before their introduction to the theme just to understand what's going on in the current story. To do that is to put a greater and greater burden on new fans each year, all while the majority of older fans grow out of the theme at a fairly steady rate (fans like you and I who continue to enjoy a children's toyline well out of childhood are not and will never be the norm).

A simpler take on the story has the potential to extend the lifespan of the theme by cutting out excess rules, lore, and terminology in favor of a more accessible storyline. And those sorts of simplifications aren't a bad thing, especially if instead of spending as much energy as the old theme did on explaining the minutiae of the universe it focuses more on providing diverse settings and characters, and developing the characters and settings better as the years go on.

[Dinobrick]

What excess rules, lore and terminology?

And after this, can we wrap this up? Its getting kinda redundant.

[Kalhiki]

The shield piece actually WAS released in white, albeit with printing. That was the FIRST color it appeared in, in the Captain America set.

Caught me on a technicality. But I'll never modify a piece (in this case, removing the printing).

[Dinobrick]

Purist alert! We woo we woo! :)

I'm just kidding. The last few posts were getting kinda tense.

[Lyichir]

What excess rules, lore and terminology?

And after this, can we wrap this up? Its getting kinda redundant.

Rules like the exact ways in which Toa can control or manipulate elements, or the complex Matoran>Toa>Turaga life cycle, or the many, many states of protodermis and how it is reconstituted to form almost every material in the universe. Lore like the original ten-year story (which was not so prohibitively complex when the theme started but spiraled out of control in later years). Terminology like Kanohi (which literally means "mask", making the term "Kanohi mask" redundant). Little things like those which built up from year to year until you had Toa whose elemental powers were fused with lightning, but not ELEMENTAL lightning, which was for some reason an important distinction; or weapons made from Protosteel, which was a type of Protodermis but was significantly stronger than the Protodermis that had come before it; or story serials featuring characters drawn from several years of story, working independently of the main characters on missions with world-changing implications; and a dense, wide-ranging vocabulary that made the names of sets on store shelves into the equivalent of gibberish for new customers (Toa Hordika Vakama, for instance is a name made up of three words which all mean nothing to anyone new to the franchise).

I'm not trying to say all of these things were necessarily bad for everyone. I enjoyed Bionicle's unique vocabulary, and many people enjoyed the story serials for giving new adventures to characters who were no longer the main subject of the story! But something that's enjoyable for longtime mega fans can ward off potential new fans who just want to know what powers that Lego character has, not research an epic story that has been told for years and is spread across many mediums. At a certain point you have to question—are these minor aspects of Bionicle (which you may have personally enjoyed) sabotaging the theme's efforts to bring in new fans, and by extension crippling the story's potential for longevity? Or can the story be told more efficiently, sacrificing a certain amount of detail to make it more accessible, and still capture the essence of the theme that made it great? I think the answer to the latter question is "yes," and I'm hoping Lego can meet that expectation.

Edited November 12, 2014 by Lyichir

[Dinobrick]

All that just helped to make the universe more real and richer.

Now, are we done?