Bionicle 2015 Discussion

[The Venom]

He'll look even better when he's built correctly. TTV could've easily Bricklinked some of the missing parts, since they have almost all of the new ones (and the ones they're missing don't really affect the look). But no, gotta jump the gun if you want those views and the sweet, sweet ad revenue that comes with them.

wait

the ones they're missing don't really affect the look

what

He'll look even better when he's built correctly.

but

they have almost all of the new ones (and the ones they're missing don't really affect the look)

umm

But no, gotta jump the gun if you want those views and the sweet, sweet ad revenue that comes with them.

.... i guess

Edited October 19, 2014 by The Venom

[Mesonak]

Complaining about things like the gears getting in the way of the neck should definitely have been avoided, though. But it looks like they'll mention that in an annotation according to Mesonak.

Yeah, that was a pretty glaring mishap, in hindsight. It should've been obvious, too; there was an absurd amount of friction.

Edited October 19, 2014 by Mesonak

[Toa Eljay]

So, in the same vein as Reviews, would people prefer to see the Protectors reviewed all in one video, but looked over seperately? Or reviewed all in one? I've asked around in other places, and everyones opinions are split so far down the middle it looks like a Piraka combo model.

(Not even just asking for my own reviews, but I'm curious as to what the people here think in a general sense, cause we all know JangBricks is gonna jump on these ASAP.)

-Eljay

Edited October 19, 2014 by Toa Eljay

[Nekchir]

How about you split the reviews in half in separate videos? (review 3 in one video...You get the idea) So you can go more in depth about the sets.

[arc]

So, in the same vein as Reviews, would people prefer to see the Protectors reviewed all in one video, but looked over seperately? Or reviewed all in one? I've asked around in other places, and everyones opinions are split so far down the middle it looks like a Piraka combo model.

(Not even just asking for my own reviews, but I'm curious as to what the people here think in a general sense, cause we all know JangBricks is gonna jump on these ASAP.)

-Eljay

I'd say to go at em' in one video, that's how I would do it anyway. (If I did video reviews)

[Shakar]

I think making separate videos for each protector would end up being kind of repetitive and boring. I'd say review them all in one (slightly longer I guess) video, so you can talk about the general things (the masks, the minigun, the general build) and then focus on the individual sets and their unique features.

And a question on colours: are the heads silver or gunmetal? Same for the Sk. Spiders legs, I can't tell.

[Lyichir]

wait

what

but

umm

.... i guess

To clarify—when I mentioned "the parts they're missing not affecting the look" I meant the new, not available in any sets parts. Some of their other missing parts and substitutions SIGNIFICANTLY affect the look—specifically, the way that the spikes attached to his neck are attached wrong. In the set, those fit OVER the chest armor and make for a really cool look. In the review, since they're placed farther back, they have to stick off to the sides to even fit on. That changes up the look a lot—enough that someone who's on the fence about his unique build might easily think that it's a poor fit when in fact, built correctly, it fits together quite cleanly and elegantly.

Forgive my earlier rudeness, but the YouTube-ization of the Bionicle community has not, from my perspective, been a positive force. More and more I find myself having to clear up misconceptions STARTED by TTV which are then circulated by fans who take their word as gospel. So needless to say I don't think much of error-prone "reviews" like this (or similarly, speculation-driven news stories) which mainly serve to "scoop" sites like BZPower by putting promptness before accuracy, and leave a mess of misconceptions for other fans and websites to have to clean up.

Edited October 19, 2014 by Lyichir

[Toa of Gallifrey]

I'd like to see 'em all in one go.

[Mandate]

I'd rather see them all in one video, but with the attention to detail you'd take with a regular set (aside from shared qualities, eg the Kanoka Stud Launcher)

[Kingslayer]

So, in the same vein as Reviews, would people prefer to see the Protectors reviewed all in one video, but looked over seperately? Or reviewed all in one? I've asked around in other places, and everyones opinions are split so far down the middle it looks like a Piraka combo model.

(Not even just asking for my own reviews, but I'm curious as to what the people here think in a general sense, cause we all know JangBricks is gonna jump on these ASAP.)

-Eljay

Honestly, I think all together. They are varied enough but they arent that complex so it wouldnt take long to show them off. Plus, I like your longer reviews anyway.

[Aanchir]

Forgive my earlier rudeness, but the YouTube-ization of the Bionicle community has not, from my perspective, been a positive force. More and more I find myself having to clear up misconceptions STARTED by TTV which are then circulated by fans who take their word as gospel. So needless to say I don't think much of error-prone "reviews" like this (or similarly, speculation-driven news stories) which mainly serve to "scoop" sites like BZPower by putting promptness before accuracy, and leave a mess of misconceptions for other fans and websites to have to clean up.

I have to sort of agree here. I understand that TTV exists in large part for entertainment. However, considering how many people evidently DO go there expecting reliable news, I think it would be best if TTV in general were to work on improving their journalistic standards. It's inevitable that misinformation will still spread through other channels, but a single random comment on a message board is a much smaller problem. When you have an extremely large and trusting audience, you bear some responsibility for earning that audience's continued trust. On TTV, information and misinformation alike spreads a lot faster than it often does through other channels.

Some of the TTV interviews at NYCC, for example, included somewhat leading questions that resulted in somewhat misleading answers. Asking if the BIONICLE reboot is like the Star Trek reboot assumes the interviewee knows the twist in the first rebooted Star Trek film, and not just that the movie depicts a new continuity with new versions of Spock, Kirk, and the rest of the crew. People on various sites such as Facebook, deviantART, Tumblr, Twitter, etcetera are now telling others that the new universe is a soft reboot/alternate universe with ties to the old universe, even without any solid evidence to suggest that.

Also, it's worth noting that YouTube is not like a text-based review or news report on a site like BZPower or BS01. If you make a mistake, it is very difficult to correct it effectively. A written addendum on a YouTube video is only a half-solution, because a lot of YouTube viewers might not read the descriptions out of habit. This means it is that much more critical to get the details right the first time.

Edited October 19, 2014 by Aanchir

[Sir Walter Maugham]

Thanks for the review! I ain't going to beat you up over a few gears in the wrong place, or using some pieces in the wrong shade of grey. I swear, the Lego fanbase has some of the most anal-retentive people in the world.

Anyway, I still don't care for the bright green + yellow color scheme. Also, all the horizontal ridges that go up the Miru's forehead area kinda look like wrinkles to me...

IMO, Lewa was nearly beaten to death with the ugly stick.

Edited October 19, 2014 by Sir Walter Maugham

[Kingslayer]

I have to sort of agree here. I understand that TTV exists in large part for entertainment. However, considering how many people evidently DO go there expecting reliable news, I think it would be best if TTV in general were to work on improving their journalistic standards. It's inevitable that misinformation will still spread through other channels, but a single random comment on a message board is a much smaller problem. When you have an extremely large and trusting audience, you bear some responsibility for earning that audience's continued trust. On TTV, information and misinformation alike spreads a lot faster than it often does through other channels.

Some of the TTV interviews at NYCC, for example, included somewhat leading questions that resulted in somewhat misleading answers. Asking if the BIONICLE reboot is like the Star Trek reboot assumes the interviewee knows the twist in the first rebooted Star Trek film, and not just that the movie depicts a new continuity with new versions of Spock, Kirk, and the rest of the crew. People on various sites such as Facebook, deviantART, Tumblr, Twitter, etcetera are now telling others that the new universe is a soft reboot/alternate universe with ties to the old universe, even without any solid evidence to suggest that.

Also, it's worth noting that YouTube is not like a text-based review or news report on a site like BZPower or BS01. If you make a mistake, it is very difficult to correct it effectively. A written addendum on a YouTube video is only a half-solution, because a lot of YouTube viewers might not read the descriptions out of habit. This means it is that much more critical to get the details right the first time.

Oh come on. Its not like anyone has'nt gotten mixed up before. the whole thing with the story question and Lewa set was a genuine mistake and we as human beings are all prone to making them, arent we? Sure fans make it spread but its not exactly their fault either. Its no ones. And I've never known TTV to not disclaimer them selves when something is speculation.

[Toa of Gallifrey]

Thanks for the review! I ain't going to beat you up over a few gears in the wrong place, or using some pieces in the wrong shade of grey. I swear, the Lego fanbase has some of the most anal-retentive people in the world.

Anyway, I still don't care for the bright green + yellow color scheme. Also, all the horizontal ridges that go up the Miru's forehead area kinda look like wrinkles to me...

IMO, Lewa was nearly beaten to death with the ugly stick.

Headcanon for Lewa as a spry old rebel confirmed. It's kinda ironic you said that he's beaten to death with the ugly stick, some of my friends consider his mask to be the best looking of the new masks. XD

[Nekchir]

It seems TTV is the origin of a lot of the cringy things like 'Omega Tahu', despite my like for the channel.

[TheDesuComplex]

Dang, I didn't expect there to be much backlash over TTV. I'm just glad for anyone who wants to help out.

Thanks Aanchir for the parts also... I had forgotten that Jetbug was even a thing.

Edited October 19, 2014 by TheDesuComplex

[Sir Walter Maugham]

It seems TTV is the origin of a lot of the cringy things like 'Omega Tahu', despite my like for the channel.

Ah, I was wondering were all of those memes came from. I've never watched the channel before.

Headcanon for Lewa as a spry old rebel confirmed. It's kinda ironic you said that he's beaten to death with the ugly stick, some of my friends consider his mask to be the best looking of the new masks. XD

I'm mostly reserving judgement until I see them up close in reviews like this, but from all the images I've seen, I'd say that I like Kopaka's mask the best.

Edited October 19, 2014 by Sir Walter Maugham

[Mandate]

Aanchir, Lychir, if you guys really want super-accurate versions of the sets to be seen, then why not make a Youtube channel yourself and dedicate it to 100% accurate things on everything BIONICLE and LEGO? Seriously. TTV is made up of humans who make mistakes like the rest of us. Misinformation or not, it's not done intentionally. Not everyone has access to the parts required to make the sets completely accurate. Whenever Jangbricks does this no one whines because his are hilariously both like the sets and far away from the sets (nothing against Jang, or his MOCk-ups of future sets but you get the point). Granted, Jang's aren't meant to be 100% accurate recreations but human error is present in everything.

I understand what you're both saying (and as much as it annoys me when new fans of LEGO aren't "in the know" so to speak) but you've got to remember that everyone makes mistakes. And the only way to move past a mistake is to learn from it and move on. There were errors in the Tahu build as well, and LEGO employees HELPED them on that. So just keep in mind, mistakes are bound to happen even if they had an official copy.

[Aanchir]

Don't get me wrong. I admire TTV for their role in bringing information to a very large part of the fan community. I just think they should hold themselves more accountable for the accuracy of their reporting. I'm frankly getting fed up with having to correct misinformation that originates with them.

If you think "misplacing some gears" and then talking at length about how much friction the misplaced gears add isn't misleading, you are wrong. I've already seen a comment on BZPower specifically talking about the tightness of the gear function as reported in that video.

Everybody makes mistakes. But mistakes made by a YouTube channel with a huge and trusting audience have a much bigger impact than mistakes made by an average joe on a message board. And as such, people running extremely popular YouTube channels that people rely on for news have a much greater responsibility to their audience than a typical message board commenter. Especially since it's much easier to prevent misinformation in the first place than it is to clean up the mess. Adding a footnote in the video description is closing the barn door after the horses have bolted.

Aanchir, Lychir, if you guys really want super-accurate versions of the sets to be seen, then why not make a Youtube channel yourself and dedicate it to 100% accurate things on everything BIONICLE and LEGO? Seriously. TTV is made up of humans who make mistakes like the rest of us. Misinformation or not, it's not done intentionally. Not everyone has access to the parts required to make the sets completely accurate. Whenever Jangbricks does this no one whines because his are hilariously both like the sets and far away from the sets (nothing against Jang, or his MOCk-ups of future sets but you get the point). Granted, Jang's aren't meant to be 100% accurate recreations but human error is present in everything.

I understand what you're both saying (and as much as it annoys me when new fans of LEGO aren't "in the know" so to speak) but you've got to remember that everyone makes mistakes. And the only way to move past a mistake is to learn from it and move on. There were errors in the Tahu build as well, and LEGO employees HELPED them on that. So just keep in mind, mistakes are bound to happen even if they had an official copy.

For starters, I am fully aware of the many disadvantages of YouTube videos as a news source. I prefer providing information (and OBTAINING information) in text form whenever possible, which is part of why I don't like watching video reviews much in the first place.

Besides that, I'd much rather be the last person with a scoop than beat everybody else to the punch with incorrect information. My brother has been working on LDD models of the sets for weeks now, but the main reason he hasn't shared them is because he hasn't worked out all the faults with 100% certainty. Some of you might remember how delayed my New York Toy Fair coverage was in 2012. Journalism is in my blood, but timeliness is not.

EDIT: One more thing. I am not competitive by nature. I'd much rather report news to an established news source like BZP News, The Brick Fan, The Brothers Brick, or yes, even TTV than try to compete with them.

Edited October 19, 2014 by Aanchir

[Jacen Torq]

​Also, literally every single time there is any speculation going on in their videos, they clearly state it as such. So... Viewers taking it as hard fact and running with it is their own fault. xD

[VBBN]

This thread is for Bionicle 2015 sets & story, not the logistics or decisions of TTV. Please focus on the topic.

VBBN

[Aanchir]

​Also, literally every single time there is any speculation going on in their videos, they clearly state it as such. So... Viewers taking it as hard fact and running with it is their own fault. xD

Not entirely. A news outlet should not expect perfection from their audience. If people are not understanding those kinds of disclaimers, they need to be clearer or be given better emphasis. Repetition helps. There's a reason many TV news stories will say before AND after that it's a developing story and details are still a bit unclear.

News reporting is an imperfect science, but accountability is key. I'm impressed with how receptive the TTV members here were to my criticisms right away. Listening to your audience and reacting accordingly is a sign of integrity. But, as I mentioned above, correcting mistakes after they go to press is harder and less reliable than taking greater care to avoid them in the first place.

[Sir Walter Maugham]

I was going to respond to Aanchir's post, but I will respect the forum rules of putting on horse blinders and ignoring a discussion's natural progression.

...

There, they are on now.

So while watching that review, when Lewa was compared to his Toa Nuva counterpart, I noticed that he was not as tall as I thought he would be. How tall are these sets? I assume Tahu and Kopaka are a bit taller than Pohatu, Gali and Lewa but are they taller than a Toa Inika?

Edited October 20, 2014 by Sir Walter Maugham

[Mandate]

Contrary to popular belief, Tahu uses Friction Joints on his feet as well. But I can't exactly give a proper height for them.

[IllustriousVar]

To clarify—when I mentioned "the parts they're missing not affecting the look" I meant the new, not available in any sets parts. Some of their other missing parts and substitutions SIGNIFICANTLY affect the look—specifically, the way that the spikes attached to his neck are attached wrong. In the set, those fit OVER the chest armor and make for a really cool look. In the review, since they're placed farther back, they have to stick off to the sides to even fit on. That changes up the look a lot—enough that someone who's on the fence about his unique build might easily think that it's a poor fit when in fact, built correctly, it fits together quite cleanly and elegantly.

Forgive my earlier rudeness, but the YouTube-ization of the Bionicle community has not, from my perspective, been a positive force. More and more I find myself having to clear up misconceptions STARTED by TTV which are then circulated by fans who take their word as gospel. So needless to say I don't think much of error-prone "reviews" like this (or similarly, speculation-driven news stories) which mainly serve to "scoop" sites like BZPower by putting promptness before accuracy, and leave a mess of misconceptions for other fans and websites to have to clean up.

First off, I would have to very much disagree with these "significant" changes to the look. Sure, the build is slightly off, we didn't have these exact pieces to recreate the shoulder plating and we worked with what we had. I didn't build this set, it was sent to me to make a video on, so I can't comment too much on the sets actual build and it's accuracy. However, to claim that these changes drastically effect the look as a whole is completely incorrect.

I modded a piece to get a more accurate representation of the shoulder plating connection.

(alt view)

Compared with the original design featured in the video, the shoulder plating is only slightly pushed back. The difference is barely even noticeable, and the 'backpack' is agreeable less flush, but if someone is willing to skip this set over something as minute like that then I'd really have to question their reasoning for purchasing these sets. I mean sure, if someone was looking for parts that's one thing but this criticism is about the look of Lewa here.

Heck, Lewa's CGI artwork has the spike pieces placed in various angles, the image prominently featured on the BIONICLE website has them turned backwards- I would assume their placement is up to the owners preference and not something meant to be exact so I fail to see how fitting them to the side of the chest as opposed to over it is a problem.

And I understand there was an issue with me complaining about the head movement due to it rubbing against the gears.... but even without the gears the head movement is still limited. Removing the gears did nothing to give him more head articulation, therefore my criticism still stands despite the mess up.

None of these things mentioned hardly touch the overall look of the set. Had I not included an image gallery I doubt many people would have even noticed.

But, I digress.

I do agree we should have thoroughly analyzed the set more to keep the build accurate. We tried, but we did not succeed. That was our mistake, and those do happen sometimes. However, I have to wonder why we never hear about these so called 'misconceptions' until well after the fact when someone wants to use it as a point against us. I've seen people pull this "TTV spreads misinformation" card, and yet none of these people come to us addressing this misinformation.

We can only fix things if we're aware of the problem, it's not like we're actively trying to spread out false info to people. If it's really that big of an issue all you have to do is tell us and we'll try to fix it. Snide remarks and sarcastic comments do nothing to fix the problem.

I have to sort of agree here. I understand that TTV exists in large part for entertainment. However, considering how many people evidently DO go there expecting reliable news, I think it would be best if TTV in general were to work on improving their journalistic standards. It's inevitable that misinformation will still spread through other channels, but a single random comment on a message board is a much smaller problem. When you have an extremely large and trusting audience, you bear some responsibility for earning that audience's continued trust. On TTV, information and misinformation alike spreads a lot faster than it often does through other channels.

Some of the TTV interviews at NYCC, for example, included somewhat leading questions that resulted in somewhat misleading answers. Asking if the BIONICLE reboot is like the Star Trek reboot assumes the interviewee knows the twist in the first rebooted Star Trek film, and not just that the movie depicts a new continuity with new versions of Spock, Kirk, and the rest of the crew. People on various sites such as Facebook, deviantART, Tumblr, Twitter, etcetera are now telling others that the new universe is a soft reboot/alternate universe with ties to the old universe, even without any solid evidence to suggest that.

Also, it's worth noting that YouTube is not like a text-based review or news report on a site like BZPower or BS01. If you make a mistake, it is very difficult to correct it effectively. A written addendum on a YouTube video is only a half-solution, because a lot of YouTube viewers might not read the descriptions out of habit. This means it is that much more critical to get the details right the first time.

I'll start my response by stressing how much I appreciate the actual critique.

Your point is certainly valid, and I agree that we put too much focus on trying to be first instead of taking the time to make sure things are right. Do understand that we ourselves are fans and we get just as excited over new information as much as our audience does, so yes, we can be quick to share any information we receive. And yes, we get ad revenue so it is in our best interests to get things up fast.

Unfortunately, as you mentioned, slip ups can be very hard to correct since our primary outlet is video. videos of which take a very long time to make and render, my Lewa review for example, took 9 hours to fully process and 2 hours to upload. It is unrealistic for us to take our videos down to cut out a 10 seconds worth of incorrect info. There would be an 11 hour waiting period in between uploads where people would have to wait despite knowing the video was already finished and ready to be viewed. To correct this, we typically add annotations and disclosures as well as edit our descriptions. We also generally create an update video further explaining and correcting certain things. That's all we can do.

I thank you for understanding the situation. You have been heard, and I will do my best to make sure we put more focus on correcting our information and more emphasis on identifying speculation versus fact.

It seems TTV is the origin of a lot of the cringy things like 'Omega Tahu', despite my like for the channel.

So it would appear.

Dang, I didn't expect there to be much backlash over TTV. I'm just glad for anyone who wants to help out.

There always is...

Edited October 20, 2014 by IllustriousVar