Bionicle 2015 Discussion

[Aethersprite]

Well, you can sort of see on my MOC from the event. It doesn't really cover the toe at all (though, in fairness, I don't think kicking with your toe is good form in most sports anyway). I definitely don't think it looks awful, but it's up to you whether you think it'd work for Pohatu.

Thanks, Aanchir! It looks decent, though not as good as I'd like it to be. Still, it'll help set Pohatu apart from the rest. I guess I'll only know how well it fits when I have it in hand.

[GK733]

Seriously they could handle it in a way that it's up to you decide where the toa are from, just start it with the six lights crashing to Okoto.

I hope the story team will simply say that the six toa on Okoto are the six original toa. I don't have to know more. And if no more is not hinted I hope this really is a completely new universe and not just timetravel. If this indeed is hinted to be timetravel it's very much possible that the protectors are the "evolution" of toa, matoran, glatorian and agori in the future. Or the best thing possible, Great Beings in the past. Throughout the story with toa we discover how some of the protectors evolve into godlike creators they are. And that possibly Ekimu's brother is Velika who was called Makuta in the past and is the origin of Teridax by corrupting him when Mata Nui created the makutas.

Lego seems to be all about the word "creation" now so why not slap on the new story characters that start with only a little imagination and some of them will evolve into "masterbuilders".

Same with the six toa. Protectors become toa and discover later the power of creation.

I can't help but to think that a past Great Being Tahu watches from his majestic tower on Spherus Magna while his present one runs around collecting golden armour.

Also, when toa and matoran were created, I believe they were more reflected of the great beings themselves and not the agori and glatorian, as they tried to create superior species.

I think I need some sleep, I'm going way overboard with this now :P

Edited October 19, 2014 by GK733

[Dorek]

I'd be a little disappointed if it was an open-ended introduction mystery. I don't mind if they're saving it for later, but if they just leave the nature of the Toa's origins "for the fans" to decide, then they really don't understand the fans that well =P.

[Kalhiki]

If they were the original masks, they'd have the same powers, yeah? They're called mask powers, not Toa powers. And even so, alternate dimension would apply anyway. Different worlds = different composition. Lewa was practically Jungle in the original G1 anyway, given the green color and the jungle aesthetic. This is an alternate dimension, not Cubus Magna brother of Spherus Magna.

Okay, I must have missed something. Or I'm not picking up on what you're talking about...

This new universe/Bio15/Nuvaverse/G2/whatever you want to call it has the Toa with Masks that control their elements. Tahu has the Mask of Fire, etc. These are their mask powers in this universe. For all we know they don't even have "Toa Powers" like in days of old.

And here's where I get confused. Yes, alternate dimensions apply. The G2 story, for all intents and purposes, in an alternate universe. Meaning that these Toa are not the same physical bodies as the Toa from G1. So discrepancies are going to happen, absolutely. What it sounded like you were saying earlier was that the Toa from G1 are the same (same body, soul, everything) as the Toa from G2.

Or you meant something else, in which case I've been confused this whole time, and neither of us are understanding completely what each other's talking about.

[Mandate]

It was a case of "let the fans decide" for a number of years how and where the Toa came from. And "Mata Nui sent them" doesn't count.

edit: gah, I really need to use quotes more often. Kalhiki, sorry I didn't see your post.

Look, at this point I think everyone is on a different point regarding continuum. Probably best to save the arguing for when they DO reveal what the case is

Edited October 19, 2014 by JayWalker

[GK733]

Well the travel already took their memory. Why it couldn't change them physically?

[Dorek]

Okay, I must have missed something. Or I'm not picking up on what you're talking about...

This new universe/Bio15/Nuvaverse/G2/whatever you want to call it has the Toa with Masks that control their elements. Tahu has the Mask of Fire, etc. These are their mask powers in this universe. For all we know they don't even have "Toa Powers" like in days of old.

And here's where I get confused. Yes, alternate dimensions apply. The G2 story, for all intents and purposes, in an alternate universe. Meaning that these Toa are not the same physical bodies as the Toa from G1. So discrepancies are going to happen, absolutely. What it sounded like you were saying earlier was that the Toa from G1 are the same (same body, soul, everything) as the Toa from G2.

Or you meant something else, in which case I've been confused this whole time, and neither of us are understanding completely what each other's talking about.

Well, "Alternate Universes" are generally what we call stuff from G1 where there was a timeline divergence and then things turned out differently. For the purposes of the story, the "rules" generally apply across the universes, it's just the events that occur differently. G2 is (likely, although there's still some confusion...) set in a different continuity, where the rules can be completely different.

It was a case of "let the fans decide" for a number of years how and where the Toa came from. And "Mata Nui sent them" doesn't count.

Not so much that as it was just left a mystery. For the first three years, yeah, we didn't know where the Toa came from. With the revelation of Metru Nui, it opened up a completely new universe, so the implication was that they were from somewhere there. Their actual origins weren't necessarily important, since they had to have come from the Matoran Universe (and we got to it eventually). With this, if they're implying that you can "make up your minds" as to whether or not the two canons are distinct, then I feel like they missed how insanely rabid we are about concrete facts.

Edited October 19, 2014 by Dorek

[Kalhiki]

It was a case of "let the fans decide" for a number of years how and where the Toa came from. And "Mata Nui sent them" doesn't count.

edit: gah, I really need to use quotes more often. Kalhiki, sorry I didn't see your post.

Look, at this point I think everyone is on a different point regarding continuum. Probably best to save the arguing for when they DO reveal what the case is

Yeah, sounds good (was kinda getting out of hand anyway).

But while we're on the subject!

I would prefer this to be a completely separate continuity. So, new iterations of the Toa. Trying to tie in the old universe would make things get way to confusing, if you ask me. I'm sure they could pull it off, but trying to accomplish it seems to go against the simpler take Lego's apparently going for.

Well, "Alternate Universes" are generally what we call stuff from G1 where there was a timeline divergence and then things turned out differently. For the purposes of the story, the "rules" generally apply across the universes, it's just the events that occur differently. G2 is (likely, although there's still some confusion...) set in a different continuity, where the rules can be completely different.

Thanks for the definitions. "New continuity" makes much more sense for what G2 is most likely going to be than "alternate universe".

Seriously. We need more information on the story. This is getting more confusing than Bionicle's original lore! :P

[Mesonak]

It's my personal belief that even IF the Vahi thing ends up being a true connection, and even IF the Toa are the same from the original lore, this fact won't be touched upon too much in the actual story. They'll probably leave it open ended, so older fans will recognize the connection and say "oh that's cool, a little continuity," whereas new fans won't be confused by the development and it won't interfere with the reboot atmosphere.

BASICALLY, even if there are references to a "continuation," don't expect a legitimate continuation. Either way the cake is cut, it's a reboot. :P

[Dorek]

Ugh but then that's not REALLY a "reboot" it's a continuation where they're trying to distance themselves from the original, which is silly.

We'll see. We've got years ahead of us.

[Mesonak]

Ugh but then that's not REALLY a "reboot" it's a continuation where they're trying to distance themselves from the original, which is silly.

We'll see. We've got years ahead of us.

Yeaaaah... despite my belief that the Vahi thing is legit I actually hope it isn't. I was holding out hope for a clean slate.

[Mandate]

As do I. If "half a mask" means anything at all, then where's the second half of the mask? Did it have something to do with the Toa's arrival in the Nuvaverse/CCBSiverse/diehardfanboyhell-iverse? And if so, when was the second half made? etc.

Likely case scenario, when they give the line the axe IF the Vahi is a legit plot connection then they'll go all out with the references, like they did with STARS.

I myself want this to be a separate continuum entirely, I go to a Christian school (and am myself a Christian) and it's incredibly frustrating trying to convince some people that THE MASKS AREN'T VOODOO. Yes, the line was originally called Voodoo heads, but... eh...

Edited October 19, 2014 by JayWalker

[Jacen Torq]

I myself want this to be a separate continuum entirely, I go to a Christian school (and am myself a Christian) and it's incredibly frustrating trying to convince some people that THE MASKS AREN'T VOODOO. Yes, the line was originally called Voodoo heads, but... eh...

Hehehehe. xD The masks aren't even anywhere near that... (btw Christians represent bro)

Also, I agree with the above comments... I really wanted a clean slate for the series.

[Mandate]

Hehehehe. xD The masks aren't even anywhere near that... (btw Christians represent bro)

Also, I agree with the above comments... I really wanted a clean slate for the series.

Eh, most of them know it isn't voodoo. But I know it's a minefield around some (rare) people.

[SirPuddings]

Yeah, I definitely know not everyone thought mask powers were some kind of voodoo, because my parents (back when I was still a christian) were completely okay with it and didn't really mind the "magic mask things" at all.

And I too want a clean slate, I don't mind minor easter eggs that don't mean a whole lot, but I would really like if lego kept the old continuity untouched

[Mandate]

Personally I just want a more technologically advanced aesthetic, so to speak. The Mata Nui era was cool, but it was crazy in the sense that they had been there for 1,000 years and they had only just reached the Protodermis layer? Nuparu can make a robotic boxer out of Bohrok parts yet no one can make a mining machine? etc. They've at least fixed the last part with the PoE's rotating drill a bit. But still.

[Lord-Vorahk]

> Continuity is rebooted to avoid the confusion of OG Bionicle.

> Fans immediately try to link the two canons

> Creates more of a mess than OG Bionicle.

I love how people are wholly okay with the idea that the Toa and Makuta are just them reusing names to hook the old fans, but the Vahi is somehow very definitely a link?

The Vahi gives the user the ability to control time. Alternate timelines are the domain of the Olmak.

[Pate-keetongu]

Personally I just want a more technologically advanced aesthetic, so to speak. The Mata Nui era was cool, but it was crazy in the sense that they had been there for 1,000 years and they had only just reached the Protodermis layer? Nuparu can make a robotic boxer out of Bohrok parts yet no one can make a mining machine? etc. They've at least fixed the last part with the PoE's rotating drill a bit. But still.

Some things in this toy line story make no sense at all and it's better just to ignore it. Mata Nui's The Great War against Rahi beasts lasted 1000 years and no one died. That can't be very great sort of war. But on the other hand, they never told us the lenght of a year - It might be, let's say, fifteen Earth minutes or thirteen Earth days or 120 million Earth years (which would be ridiculous). On cases like this it's best not to think it too much and just enjoy the story.

[Mandate]

> Continuity is rebooted to avoid the confusion of OG Bionicle.

> Fans immediately try to link the two canons

> Creates more of a mess than OG Bionicle.

I love how people are wholly okay with the idea that the Toa and Makuta are just them reusing names to hook the old fans, but the Vahi is somehow very definitely a link?

The Vahi gives the user the ability to control time. Alternate timelines are the domain of the Olmak.

The Vahi does indeed give the user the ability to control time, but I think you've just jumped into a conversation knowing half the facts and blatantly ignoring what everyone has said and claiming you're correct because of it. The Vahi was stated to be half a mask, if (READ: IF) this is true, it means the Vahi has a second half that can be used separately, or perhaps combined, with the Vahi to create a new mask that may be able to do all sorts of wacky stuff.

Your comment on the Toa and Makuta is assuming that we know these aren't the same guys we got in 01. Complete memory loss, etc could cause completely new personalities based on completely new experiences. If you were an alcoholic and had your memory wiped you would have no memory of the addiction or any previous events that would have caused such an addiction and you could start a new life without the baggage of said addiction. We don't know anything really. We'll probably only find out when they discontinue this BIONICLE line as well.

Finally, we have no confirmation on whether this is a reboot or continuation. We do have evidence to support that it is a continuation, but we have nothing concrete. LEGO has changed elements of a plot just before release before. No one is trying to link the two universes. There's no point because we have nothing to go on except a comment from a person who works at LEGO. And what mess? How is there a mess at all? We've got no solid evidence to support either one. Anything can change in-between universes because said universes have both different pasts and different compositions. There's no mess because we've got no links whatsoever yet.

Some things in this toy line story make no sense at all and it's better just to ignore it. Mata Nui's The Great War against Rahi beasts lasted 1000 years and no one died. That can't be very great sort of war. But on the other hand, they never told us the lenght of a year - It might be, let's say, fifteen Earth minutes or thirteen Earth days or 120 million Earth years (which would be ridiculous). On cases like this it's best not to think it too much and just enjoy the story.

Very true, but that really leaves a lot of questions floating around regardless. I can agree with you on enjoying the story, the Boxor thing was really cool and shed some light on Nuparu's nature. Just out of place in continuity, but it's such a minor thing I can ignore it unlike NINJAGO with the insanity of how many times they've totaled the old lore just to bring about some stupid plot twist that offered worse character development than the alternative.

[BrickBuilder3213]

If the Vahi (both halves of it) was made into a physical 2015 mask, how would the two halves connect and work as one full mask? More importantly, how would both halves be used as seperate masks?

[Mandate]

If the Vahi (both halves of it) was made into a physical 2015 mask, how would the two halves connect and work as one full mask? More importantly, how would both halves be used as seperate masks?

If it is true, I doubt we'll see it next year.

[Tazakk]

Some things in this toy line story make no sense at all and it's better just to ignore it. Mata Nui's The Great War against Rahi beasts lasted 1000 years and no one died. That can't be very great sort of war. But on the other hand, they never told us the lenght of a year - It might be, let's say, fifteen Earth minutes or thirteen Earth days or 120 million Earth years (which would be ridiculous). On cases like this it's best not to think it too much and just enjoy the story.

In the Mata Nui Online Game, Jala makes it very clear that many of his warriors have perished in the war - the idea that nobody ever died was a retcon by Greg.

[gedren_y]

Don't get me started on the issue of biological/psychological debate with regards to chemical addiction.

Just look at the boggle of a debate that has happened already.

I doubt there will be any real continuity connection with the old Bionicle, just some easter eggs directed at existing fans. As someone who never bothered with any of the original Bionicle media, I find the clean slate approach most appropriate. The target audience are likely to have little or no experience with the original story. The new Bionicle needs to be able to exist on its own, and draw in new fans by its own merit.

[Still Raindrop]

I just thought of something (that may have been mentioned before, but not for a while): Greg has been canonizing things in the old continuity left and right (mostly in terms of "sure, I don't see why not"). If there were any meaningful connection between the two continuities--that is, if they were linked somehow--don't you think he would stop shrug-canonizing things and making them more confusing? Any link would be a link to a universe that grows more and more convoluted and detailed, and I doubt Lego would want that. Of course, they could ignore the canonization (as many are doing), but it seems like they would want their employee to stop doing it if it affected the new continuity.

[Kalhiki]

In the Mata Nui Online Game, Jala makes it very clear that many of his warriors have perished in the war - the idea that nobody ever died was a retcon by Greg.

Apparently a lot of stuff in the MNOG was non-canon ;)

Which is completely bogus because why can't it be canon?

Anywho, point is, I've been reading up on Biosector01, and I've come to realize something: the old story was a mess. Not only with multiple different plotlines going on at the same time in the later years with story serials, but also what Mariko said. Random and pointless canonization of minor things. And it's made me realize something: I think I'm going to enjoy Bio15's story far more than the original story.

In 2001 when I was still a kid (and in the target age group), I barely followed the story. I only got snippets from what the website said, but I still managed to follow it quite well. So for the sake of the new audience, I think this simpler take on the story will go quite well.