Bionicle 2015 Discussion

[Mesonak]

Yes, the Vahi being "half a mask" was mentioned to me as well by Jordan Paxton if I remember correctly. This is when I asked him whether this new story will be connected to the old. He then started to explain that the mask we have seen in Gen 1 of Bionicle was only "half a mask" and that the mask maker didn't manage to complete it. He then told me how I'll find out more about it in the panel (I asked him while on the showfloor), however it wasn't really mentioned.

Oh wow, you asked him too? Interesting. Sounds like that and the Temple of Time weren't intended to be elaborated upon, in that case.

Yeah, we spoke to him about it as well and the bit about the Vahi was definitely stated by Jordan Paxton. What it actually means as far as the "soft reboot" discussion is another matter entirely, but we heard what we heard.

Edited October 15, 2014 by Mesonak

[Zenerius]

Of course! That's why they're called "Master of _____"! Because the Temple of Time is where they find the Master Sword!

And the mask of ultimate power..... ITS MAJORA'S MASK! MY LIFE IS A LIE!

Seriously though. LoZ Bonkles plz

Edited October 15, 2014 by Zenerius

[AdaptingChaos]

Oh wow, you asked him too? Interesting. Sounds like that and the Temple of Time weren't intended to be elaborated upon, in that case.

Yeah, we spoke to him about it as well and the bit about the Vahi was definitely stated by Jordan Paxton. What it actually means as far as the "soft reboot" discussion is another matter entirely, but we heard what we heard.

Yeah I asked him as well. I believe that Var was near me waiting for you to fill out the Spring Assortment Giveaway when Jordan was speaking to me. Though, I forgot where Kahi was at the exact moment. But yes I did infact ask him myself and he did mention the Vahi.

Edited October 15, 2014 by AdaptingChaos

[Clone 01354 Productions]

I was just reading Pohatu's bio, and although this has been mentioned:

Well almost fearless. Pohatu does NOT like the dark.

Also, for Onua:

Key traits: Wise, sleepy and afraid of heights.

AFRAID OF HEIGHTS?! What is he, five years old? And Pohatu is scared of the dark?! WHY ARE THE TOA BABIES NOW?!? Before they were honorable guardians, and now their frightened children!

Lego: "We need to relate more to our target audience.......Let's give all of the Toa childish characteristics!"

Writer: " What? These are honorable warriors, not children!"

Lego: "Yes, but if Pohatu is afraid of the dark, then kids like him more since they can relate!"

Writer: "I don't know, maybe do something more serious and fitting.....like--"

Lego: "I've got it: Tahu will be forgetful, Lewa will be sarcastic, Gali will not be funny, Kopaka will be clumsy, Onua will be scared of heights, and Pohatu will be afraid of the dark!! Like the Seven Dwarves!"

Writer: " The seven dwarves?"

Lego: "Oh sorry, eight. Oh, we can make the Protectors bad at math, so then we can have some educational episodes!"

Writer: "Look, what about REAL weaknesses: arrogance, rage, compassion, greed.....something along those lines."

Lego: "Kids don't care. They just like color. And the AFOLs don't care. They're just glad Bionicle is back. No matter what we do, we win!"

Edited October 15, 2014 by LN-01354

[DuckBricks]

MNOG was hands-down one of the best things to happen to BIONICLE in its entire lifetime. I still consider it a masterpiece for what it achieved (complexity of gameplay was not part of it, though ;)). I'd love to see LEGO try something at least somewhat similar for Okoto.

-Gata

Granting that MNOLG was even mentioned as inspiration in the presentation, I wouldn't be surprised if they did something like it as well... Let's just hope it focuses on Protectors and not Toa... (Although Toa would be just fine as long as we got a OOLG)

I was just reading Pohatu's bio, and although this has been mentioned:

Also, for Onua:

AFRAID OF HEIGHTS?! What is he, five years old? And Pohatu is scared of the dark?! WHY ARE THE TOA BABIES NOW?!? Before they were honorable guardians, and now their frightened children!

Lego: "We need to relate more to our target audience.......Let's give all of the Toa childish characteristics!"

Writer: " What? These are honorable warriors, not children!"

Lego: "Yes, but if Pohatu is afraid of the dark, then kids like him more since they can relate!"

Writer: "I don't know, maybe do something more serious and fitting.....like--"

Lego: "I've got it: Tahu will be forgetful, Lewa will be sarcastic, Gali will not be funny, Kopaka will be clumsy, Onua will be scared of heights, and Pohatu will be afraid of the dark!!"

Writer: "Aren't those the seven dwarves?"

Lego: "I counted eight. Oh, we can make the Protectors bad at math, so then we can have some educational episodes!"

Writer: "Look, what about REAL weaknesses: arrogance, rage, compassion, greed.....something along those lines."

Lego: "Kids don't care. They just like color. And the AFOLs don't care. They're just glad Bionicle is back. No matter what we do, we win!"

Haha! Joking aside, I am actually really annoyed with the characteristics alone... Not even mentioning the "Mask of Fire" and "Mask of Ice." Seriously? Yeah, I guess they want to associate each character with a specific element, but what will the next fire Toa have? "Mask of Embers?" "Mask of Burning?"

[Aethersprite]

Well, the Toa aren't invincible, these traits are supposed to make them more relatable. While they aren't very becoming of heroes, I can live with them. We should've expected this when we realized Lego wanted to make Bionicle 2.0 more accessible to kids.

[Clone 01354 Productions]

But this is too much. There are lines out their, and Lego crossed them. A kid should not RELATE to a bio-mechanical elemental hero; he should look up to him.

Is Spider-Man afraid of the dark? Nope. Do kids relate to him and love him, and eat up all of his merchandise? Yep!

[SirPuddings]

AFRAID OF HEIGHTS?! What is he, five years old? And Pohatu is scared of the dark?! WHY ARE THE TOA BABIES NOW?!? Before they were honorable guardians, and now their frightened children!

Are you joking right now. For a child, a fear of heights or the dark are completely normal, when you get older however, these fears become flaws. These traits of theirs are flaws.

Edited October 15, 2014 by SirPuddings

[Clone 01354 Productions]

Yes, for normal people. But if you are, let's say, a soldier, do you think it would work out if you were scared of loud noises?

They need to fit their roles. These traits do not fit.

[SirPuddings]

But this is too much. There are lines out their, and Lego crossed them. A kid should not RELATE to a bio-mechanical elemental hero; he should look up to him.

Is Spider-Man afraid of the dark? Nope. Do kids relate to him and love him, and eat up all of his merchandise? Yep!

You are blowing this way out of proportion. A hero with flaws in their personality seems to be a completely alien concept for you. Spiderman is a completely different hero. LEGO have crossed no lines except the one that apparently makes you overreact.

Yes, for normal people. But if you are, let's say, a soldier, do you think it would work out if you were scared of loud noises?

They need to fit their roles. These traits do not fit.

Onua is a guy that spends his time underground a lot, fear of heights fits him perfectly fine. As is a fear of the dark for Pohatu, a guy who spends his time above ground in adequately lit conditions.

These simple phobias they have are not ones that would really inhibit their ability to fight. Phobias can affect anyone, and yes, they may be biomechanical beings, but they also think and feel and have emotions, having a phobia is entirely possible, even if you are supposed to be a hero. Heroes are still "normal people" after all.

Well, the Toa aren't invincible, these traits are supposed to make them more relatable. While they aren't very becoming of heroes, I can live with them. We should've expected this when we realized Lego wanted to make Bionicle 2.0 more accessible to kids.

Agreed.

Edited October 15, 2014 by SirPuddings

[Clone 01354 Productions]

But all I'm saying is give them REAL problems! Greed. Compassion. Rage. Arrogance. You know, something that is a serious problem that can effect their character.

Tuma was an arrogant warrior, and that was his downfall. Mata Nui didn't turn the lights off, and Tuma wet his pants. He exploited a real problem!

My argument is 100% valid. You may not agree with it, but it is valid. This is not "overreacting"; this is me pointing out something.

Edited October 15, 2014 by LN-01354

[Jetrax99]

But all I'm saying is give them REAL problems! Greed. Compassion. Rage. Arrogance. You know, something that is a serious problem that can effect their character.

Tuma was an arrogant warrior, and that was his downfall. Mata Nui didn't turn the lights off, and Tuma wet his pants. He exploited a real problem!

My argument is 100% valid. You may not agree with it, but it is valid. This is not "overreacting"; this is me pointing out something.

God, you sound like Haloid on TFW right now.

100% valid, you say? I'm pretty sure the others just invalidated your argument.

Edited October 15, 2014 by Jetrax99

[Aethersprite]

God, you sound like Haloid on TFW right now.

100% valid, you say? I'm pretty sure the others just invalidated your argument.

Agreed. You have a 100% valid opinion? I don't doubt that. But an argument? Far from it. I don't see why having a fear of heights or the dark aren't 'real' problems. For all we know, they could have some unexplained backstory which led them to have these fears, though that probably won't happen.

If anything, Lego is encouraging kids by saying, hey, even mighty heroes have these fears too. It's okay to be scared sometimes. Being able to better relate to a character lets kids look up to them more easily.

[SirPuddings]

But all I'm saying is give them REAL problems! Greed. Compassion. Rage. Arrogance. You know, something that is a serious problem that can effect their character.

My argument is 100% valid. You may not agree with it, but it is valid. This is not "overreacting"; this is me pointing out something.

Yeah, not really.

An opinion, yes, an argument? No.

LEGO didn't "cross lines" for describing flawed traits that the Toa have. Having phobias is a real problem though. While darkness and heights may not pose any real threat to Pohatu and Onua, they are still afraid because that is exactly what a phobia is; an irrational fear of something. Something which is a completely real and valid flaw in anyone's personality, Hero or not.

Edited October 15, 2014 by SirPuddings

[bacem]

ok, sooo, onua is afraid of height. that is understandable, since he's underground mostly, like everyone said. but then i look at this.

isn't that onua up there? if he's really afraid of height, how will he get down? or, how did he manage to get up there to begin with?

[The Kumquat Alchemist]

But all I'm saying is give them REAL problems! Greed. Compassion. Rage. Arrogance. You know, something that is a serious problem that can effect their character.

I suspect that LEGO wouldn't see it fit to actually list problems such as those. LEGO likely thought giving their new 2015 Toa heroes such (dare I say edgy?) flaws might paint them in a bad light, but still wanted to make the Toa feel like human beings, not paragons of perfection. The solution? List a few phobias for their failings.

This doesn't mean that they can't have other flaws, or that the flaws listed will take the spotlight; it's just a way to make the Toa feel more relate-able to humans, while still making them sound like role-model heroes.

Edited October 15, 2014 by The Kumquat Alchemist

[Quisoves Pugnat]

But all I'm saying is give them REAL problems! Greed. Compassion. Rage. Arrogance. You know, something that is a serious problem that can effect their character.

Just because the new Toa have phobias and social problems and whatnot does not mean they will lack the aforementioned flaws (though I count compassion as a virtue.) LEGO, however, is not going to mention them in the character bios, lest the characters become less attractive to the target audience. Imagine if Pohatu was described like this:

Pohatu is unyielding and fearless. Renowned for his unbreakable stamina, he is arguably the toughest of all the heroes. With firm resolution and mysterious stubbornness Pohatu strides forward as a fearless vanguard leading the way of the heroes. However, he is also greedy. His desire for riches drives him on just as much as his desire to be rid of the Skull Spiders.

A young child is not as likely to think "Pohatu is greedy, which is bad, but he is still a good and likeable person." The more likely thought is "Pohatu is greedy, that's bad, I don't like him."

EDIT: Ninja'd!

Edited October 15, 2014 by Quisoves Pugnat

[SirPuddings]

ok, sooo, onua is afraid of height. that is understandable, since he's underground mostly, like everyone said. but then i look at this.

isn't that onua up there? if he's really afraid of height, how will he get down? or, how did he manage to get up there to begin with?

It just so happens to be concept art as well. As in, not final.

Edited October 15, 2014 by SirPuddings

[Mandate]

Oh boy. Here comes the 20 page argument again.

What's wrong with being scared of heights? It's perfectly normal for a person to be scared of heights. And fear of the dark has never been being afraid of the dark itself, it's what's in the dark that scares people. Alien: Isolation is horrifyingly scary when you're in a dark room with the Alien stalking you, use any kind of light source and you're dead. You can't see a thing, you never know if it's going to get you because you can't see a thing.

I do not understand why people think having fears is baby-ish. There's ways to incorporate fear into a story that makes sense, and isn't corny *COUGH* Alan Wake *COUGH*. Also, these being "baby" fears (as some would put it) is part of the development of a human being. You get over a fear by facing it head on, rather than cowering. Your fear confronting you is a good thing, and over time characters can grow to be less scared, allowing kids to both relate to the heroes and grow with the heroes.

[Jacen Torq]

Besides, no reason deeper flaws can't show up in the books or something.

[SirPuddings]

100% agreed. I was trying to say something along the lines of this but it seems you beat me to it!

[CabooseBM]

Uh hold on I thought I was replying to a different picture nevermind lemme rejigger this post... whycan'tIdeleteposts...

Anyways, I really like these flaws, they're a little silly in comparison to the original, though not by much, G1 Lewa's fear of water comes to mind, but it immediately sets them up with flaws to grow past and character development opportunities, and some of it is just sets up fun character interaction.

Like, seriously, an episode where Pohatu and Lewa explore a dark jungle together, and Pohatu has to fool Lewa into believing he's afraid of nothing, not even the dark, while keeping Lewa from jumping headfirst into some dark pit or another.

Edited October 15, 2014 by CabooseBM

[Gatanui]

ok, sooo, onua is afraid of height. that is understandable, since he's underground mostly, like everyone said. but then i look at this.

isn't that onua up there? if he's really afraid of height, how will he get down? or, how did he manage to get up there to begin with?

He could have overcome his fear at that point or perhaps it's part of his therapy. ;)

-Gata

[Timeline15]

The flaws seem ok to me, so long as they are not taken to far. Oh, and lewa's sarcasm isn't listed as his weakness, his daredevil nature is, and it's also a strength.

However, lewa being sarcastic does make him sound more like matau that lewa.

And I wish Kopaka's flaw had been "bad at teamwork" or something rather than clumsy. He was one of the least clumsy toa possible from what I saw of him in the old continuity.

[Mandate]

Aaaaand LEGO.com/bionicle is now listed as Page Not Found. ._.

EDIT: Now it's back... weird.

Hmm... the black mask we keep seeing must be the Mask of Ultimate Power. So much for getting "slighty-less evil" Makuta...

Edited October 15, 2014 by JayWalker