Bionicle 2015 Discussion

[Timeline15]

and on top of that, said giant spider has a skull face on its' back, looking up at you. Not even a toa wouldn't be freaked out by what.

On a related note, can anyone tell what type of green the green skull spiders use? it looks paler than the lime we're used to.

Edited October 1, 2014 by Timeline15

[Lord-Vorahk]

and on top of that, said giant spider has a skull face on its' back, looking up at you. Not even a toa wouldn't be freaked out by what.

On a related note, can anyone tell what type of green the green skull spiders use? it looks paler than the lime we're used to.

Might be glow in the dark.

And yeah, Lewa's totally getting possessed again.

[Aanchir]

and on top of that, said giant spider has a skull face on its' back, looking up at you. Not even a toa wouldn't be freaked out by what.

On a related note, can anyone tell what type of green the green skull spiders use? it looks paler than the lime we're used to.

It might be that it's not actually green but White Glow, and the green color is a Photoshop effect to show that it glows.

If it is an actual green color, then there's no question about it — it's Spring Yellowish Green, a fairly recent and rarely-used color.

[Sir Kohran]

What? No, that's not true at all. Sales in 2003 were outstanding, at least compared to all other LEGO themes. Here's a quote from Brick by Brick: "In 2003—the year the rest of LEGO came crashing down—Bionicle's soaring sales accounted for approximatedly 25 percent of the company's total revenue and more than 100 percent of its proft (as the rest of the company was tumbling to a net loss), making it a financial anchor in turbulent times."

Didn't the annual report say "sales fell by up to 20%"? Still the most profitable theme, yes, but a clear dip as well.

The rumors around that time that LEGO was going to cancel BIONICLE were completely false, and refuting those rumors is actually the reason Greg Farshtey joined BZPower and began acting more or less as a liaison to the fan community in the first place.

I clearly remember several comments from Greg himself about the possibility of Bionicle being cancelled in 2003, stuff like "If it wasn't for Rahkshi sales, there might not have been a 2004". Unless he was gravely mistaken about the line he was working on, I don't think it was 'completely false' that that could've happened.

Edited October 1, 2014 by Sir Kohran

[Timeline15]

It might be that it's not actually green but White Glow, and the green color is a Photoshop effect to show that it glows.

If it is an actual green color, then there's no question about it — it's Spring Yellowish Green, a fairly recent and rarely-used color.

oh god I would love glow in the dark so much. otherwise it seems strange that they would include another type of green out of nowhere. Glow white also looks a perfect bone colour when in daylight, ideal for a piece that loos like a skull.

Edited October 1, 2014 by Timeline15

[Kalhiki]

I'm betting it's glow in the dark. That would look super spooky at night.

[Aanchir]

Didn't the annual report say "sales fell by up to 20%"?

Just checked, and yes, you are correct. But the annual report goes on to say that "The slowdown affected LEGO Company’s product range across the board."

Also, failing to satisfy demand for the holiday season could very well have played a part in that slowdown as far as the BIONICLE theme was concerned.

I clearly remember several comments from Greg himself about the possibility of Bionicle being cancelled in 2003, stuff like "If it wasn't for Rahkshi sales, there might not have been a 2004". Unless he was gravely mistaken about the line he was working on, I don't think it was 'completely false' that that could've happened.

Are you sure he wasn't saying that there wouldn't have been a 2004 for the company, not just the BIONICLE range? Because if BIONICLE sales had not been so strong in 2003 (for instance, if you cut out the Rahkshi, which might easily have been one of its most successful series that year), then that might very well have been the case.

Besides that, it's hard to blame that on the Matoran and Rahkshi sets being released simultaneously after a previous wave of villains. Seems to me like the Bohrok-Kal sets would be to blame. Note that the LEGO Group also did two consecutive waves of villains in the second half of 2005 (Visorak) and the first half of 2006 (Piraka and Matoran). Seems to me like a strange thing for them to do if doing that same thing that had previously been the known cause of a 20% drop in sales. And yes, I know that in Europe the Visorak and Toa Hordika sets' release dates were switched, but all that does is shift the gap in Toa sets to be one year earlier (2hy 2004- 1hy 2005).

Edited October 1, 2014 by Aanchir

[Gatanui]

Besides that, it's hard to blame that on the Matoran and Rahkshi sets being released simultaneously after a previous wave of villains. Seems to me like the Bohrok-Kal sets would be to blame. Note that the LEGO Group also did two consecutive waves of villains in the second half of 2005 (Visorak) and the first half of 2006 (Piraka and Matoran). Seems to me like a strange thing for them to do if doing that same thing that had previously been the known cause of a 20% drop in sales. And yes, I know that in Europe the Visorak and Toa Hordika sets' release dates were switched, but all that does is shift the gap in Toa sets to be one year earlier (2hy 2004- 1hy 2005).

Actually, the Toa were released 1hy 2004 and 2hy 2005 in Europe.

-Gata

[Sir Kohran]

So there's no reason to think that the dip in BIONICLE sales was indicative of something the LEGO Group should have done differently.

Well, Greg's comments seem to suggest he felt Bionicle's decline in 2003 was due to decisions made specifically relating to the line's products.

Are you sure he wasn't saying that there wouldn't have been a 2004 for the company, not just the BIONICLE range? Because if BIONICLE sales had not been so strong in 2003 (for instance, if you cut out the Rahkshi, which might easily have been one of its most successful series that year), then that might very well have been the case.

I'm pretty sure he was only talking about Bionicle, though the failure of what was almost their only very successful theme at that point might have brought the company overall down with it.

Besides that, it's hard to blame that on the Matoran and Rahkshi sets. Seems to me like the Bohrok-Kal sets would be to blame.

Yes, the poor sales of the Kal is largely what he pinned the blame on, and the Rahkshi were the saving grace. The Matoran sets didn't do much harm, but not much good either, it seems.

He also blamed it on the lack of six major hero sets, which connects with what I remember him saying elsewhere about heroes generally selling better than villains. It's difficult to see how they could've introduced six new heroes with the Nuva transformation having happened so recently, short of killing them off and replacing them (as arguably happened to an extent in 2006).

Edited October 1, 2014 by Sir Kohran

[TwistLaw]

Well, Greg's comments seem to suggest he felt Bionicle's decline in 2003 was due to decisions made specifically relating to the line's products.

Is it safe to assume that LEGO tried to "contain" BIONICLE in order to give more space for future lines in the middle of the 00's?

Like, they were saying to themselves " we must try something different than Bonkles, let's play dirt and do an undesputed bad decision capable of giving space on the market".

A bit of a stretch but hey, totally sounds like that.

Also, Bohrok Kal were amongst the worst decision the LEGO Group ever made in this century, at least as long as the constraction area is concerned (except Galidor, of course).

[Shakar]

The thing is that the release pattern of 2001-2002 was kind of screwed up: the Nuva appeared right after the Bohrok swarm was defeated, so you didn't have powerful villains to pit them against until the Kal.. and people who got into BIONICLE in 2003 had to wait for Summer to get a single Toa set! Obviously they realized that a lot of kids are casual buyers and so each year had to feature a balanced number of heroes and villains..which was they began to do in 2004 and beyond.

As for the Summer sets, when I read "5 sets" my mind immediately thought "Rahi!". However Greg said they're not revisiting old sets, and even if it's one of his half-truth answers, there has to be a set with the MoCr included (Somehow I don't see them taking the Ignika route). I just really want some big, big sets. Something like Kardas.

[Mandate]

The thing is that the release pattern of 2001-2002 was kind of screwed up: the Nuva appeared right after the Bohrok swarm was defeated, so you didn't have powerful villains to pit them against until the Kal.. and people who got into BIONICLE in 2003 had to wait for Summer to get a single Toa set! Obviously they realized that a lot of kids are casual buyers and so each year had to feature a balanced number of heroes and villains..which was they began to do in 2004 and beyond.

As for the Summer sets, when I read "5 sets" my mind immediately thought "Rahi!". However Greg said they're not revisiting old sets, and even if it's one of his half-truth answers, there has to be a set with the MoCr included (Somehow I don't see them taking the Ignika route). I just really want some big, big sets. Something like Kardas.

I thought the Nuva appeared after the Rahi were defeated?

edit: ah, crud. Gotta ration my posts for my special 500th Post

Edited October 1, 2014 by JayWalker

[davidr]

I just want to say that just when I was about to catch up with the discussion (page 180/201) the thread exploded again, this is gonna take so long... I'll join you again sometime in active discussion, but for now there's reading to be done.

[TheBrickPal]

A midquel or whatever you call it would be the worst option as far as keeping confusion to a minimum, unless you can think of a way to say it's a midquel without mentioning the vast story surrounding it that would be required for at least 75% of it to make sense.

What I meant was, LEGO could treat it like a soft reboot.

I just want to say that just when I was about to catch up with the discussion (page 180/201) the thread exploded again, this is gonna take so long... I'll join you again sometime in active discussion, but for now there's reading to be done.

Nobody can escape the Bonkles

[Timeline15]

I just want to say that just when I was about to catch up with the discussion (page 180/201) the thread exploded again, this is gonna take so long... I'll join you again sometime in active discussion, but for now there's reading to be done.

well you'll be pleased to know that the last few pages were dominated by an overly heated argument, so you can skip them at least.

[Kalhiki]

All this discussion about needing Hero sets in a wave still doesn't debunk my idea of having Matoran as the main protagonists for a wave. For instance, the story could be like: Toa get captured, and then the Matoran come to save them. A little far-fetched considering Toa are far stronger than Matoran, but you never know.

Plus, it'd be a nice message: You don't have to be big and strong to be the hero.

[TheDesuComplex]

All this discussion about needing Hero sets in a wave still doesn't debunk my idea of having Matoran as the main protagonists for a wave. For instance, the story could be like: Toa get captured, and then the Matoran come to save them. A little far-fetched considering Toa are far stronger than Matoran, but you never know.

Plus, it'd be a nice message: You don't have to be big and strong to be the hero.

Hopefully it goes better then '06.

[Shakar]

A soft reboot is what they tried to do in 2009...and it got the series cancelled.

As for the Toa discussion: I don't want to jump to a new Toa team already- actually I don't even think we're going to get one for a while. HF, Ninjago and Chima have stuck with the same main cast, only adding new members once in a while (Evo/Nex/Rocka, Nya, Skylar, the Rhino guy who likes Eris IRRC). So I think Tahu and co. are returning in 2016 with new forms.

I'm really curious on how the possible neo-Nuva could be. As Aanchir said, the CCBS allows for more interesting upgrades (rather than "let's slap some silver armour and call it a day"), and with HF Lego finally started to upgrade characters while staying true to their basic looks (this time getting the approval of focus groups, unlike 2008), which is what they did with the..ahem, Masters.

It's no secret I have a strong dislike for the Kanohi Nuva- they took beautiful designs and utterly deformed them (ok, the Akaku and the Miru were decent, but still very inferior to the 2001 versions), the result being that they are nowhere as iconic and loved as the Mata masks among fans. Seeing HF's record, I think we're finally going to get Toa Nuva who look like proper upgrades, not distorted and mutant Toa Mata. Seeing new weapons is going to be pretty exciting as well, since they already took a lot of inspiration from the Nuva weapons with the 2015 Toa (Tahu, Kopaka, Gali, Pohatu in a way).

Edited for better reading.

Edited October 1, 2014 by Shakar

[Aanchir]

Actually, the Toa were released 1hy 2004 and 2hy 2005 in Europe.

-Gata

That's... exactly what I was saying. In Europe, 2hy 2004 and 1hy 2005 represented a lengthy gap between the Toa Metru release in 1hy 2004 and the Toa Hordika release in 2hy 2005. Sorry if my phrasing was confusing.

[Grima]

I missed this discussion, but I would find it highly unlikely that one of the Skull Spider colors is GITD, if only because if they were going to do that, I'd think ALL the Spiders would be that color; why limit a cool feature for the Skull Spiders to a handful of sets? It'd almost be like only making 25% of Krana able to stick to faces, or if only a third of the Jumpers could actually jump (well, as opposed to 0%, I guess; I still struggle with them).

[The Kumquat Alchemist]

I missed this discussion, but I would find it highly unlikely that one of the Skull Spider colors is GITD, if only because if they were going to do that, I'd think ALL the Spiders would be that color; why limit a cool feature for the Skull Spiders to a handful of sets? It'd almost be like only making 25% of Krana able to stick to faces, or if only a third of the Jumpers could actually jump (well, as opposed to 0%, I guess; I still struggle with them).

It's not quite the same; mechanical features are rarely if ever limited, but GITD is usually the icing on the cake for larger price-point sets, such as Tahu is assumed to be.

An example of this would be the GITD Brain Slug used in Hero Factory's Dragon Bolt figure.

My only concern about the Skull Spiders is that they might only come in one or two colors, which would be a letdown; I hope we get a decent variety.

Edited October 1, 2014 by The Kumquat Alchemist

[Grima]

It's not quite the same; mechanical features are rarely if ever limited, but GITD is usually the icing on the cake for larger price-point sets, such as Tahu is assumed to be.

An example of this would be the GITD Brain Slug used in Hero Factory's Dragon Bolt figure.

My only concern about the Skull Spiders is that they might only come in one or two colors, which would be a letdown; I hope we get a decent variety.

I suppose that's true, but that's eyes vs. whole body. idk why i feel like that makes a difference and now that I said it it sounds stupid.

plus, now that we have finalized packaging, I would think they'd advertise it on the front? the spider certainly doesn't look like it's glowing, and sets with GITD elements usually have a symbol on the front. (In fact, judging by Dragon Bolt's packaging, these days they have a standardized symbol for the occasion.)

[arc]

Thinking about the nuva, does anyone think Kopaka's blades can be attached to his feet somehow? Not sure how it would work with the 2.0 feet.

Edited October 2, 2014 by arc

[Clone 01354 Productions]

And yeah, Lewa's totally getting possessed again.

What makes you say that? The fact that has about 50 Skull Spiders behind him?

Also, arc: Aren't they the same blades that Tahu uses?

[Loki]

Also, Bohrok Kal were amongst the worst decision the LEGO Group ever made in this century, at least as long as the constraction area is concerned (except Galidor, of course).

I will fight and defend the Kal for they were lovely, because the Bohrok were wonderful. I'll concede they were essentially clones of the older villains, but I liked their aesthetics a lot and thought the sentient Bohrok were an interesting addition to the story.

For this reason I sort of hope Bohrok aren't revisited, since I feel the same with Grima that CCBS wouldn't work well with them unless a ton of specialized parts were made for them (like the old ones), since one of their best features was rolling up into little balls.