Madoca's Tatra VS Zblj's Fox

[LeocornoProductions]

Hello All

I am pleased to anounce, that in 2015, OSUHARDING1 will be doing a double review of both these Tatra's in question. There could possibly

be an offroad duel between both, which I am very excited for; this will be the ultimate duel. Both mocs are amazingly built, I couldn't take

one over the other, nor the builders either. Madoca is famous for his attention to detail (he is the pagani of technic), and Zblj is famous

for fufilling and utilising functions to the best of their ability (though it doesn't mean that madoca's use of functions are useless, nor does

it mean that Zblj builds ugly mocs).

Madoca's Tatra has the best attention to detail, and is extremely precise for every of its functions. The Fox may not be too pretty, but it goes like

a train though terrain. The Fox has been proven to survive all terrains, it can drive on any terrain including snow, ice, foresty areas, sand and

can tow a car. You can literally say that the Fox has been around the world. Zblj also quotes his Fox as the most powerful tatra EVER, but then

it would be because it has 1 XL motor per wheel. It has 2 winches capable of pulling itself up, not to mention its 8 wheel steering which can vary

from rear steering, front steering, crab steering and opposite motion steering. It can climb up a hill but starts to loose traction due to the

combination of torque and high revs, its either one or the other in technic.

Madoca's tatra, aaahhh its a joy to look at, and to play with. It is very technical, but more stable than the fox when climbing objects (the fox is a

bit skiddy when tackling objects). Madoca's Tatra's stablity also means it can climb higher than the fox on steep hills; it doesn't slip its wheels

when climbing. Madoca's mocs are also known for there effective suspension and he always shows each moc, climbing over a few bumps. Not

to mention that the Tatra has the offroad pedigree of the SUV MKII and the Offroad pickup truck, which are also made by madoca. Performancewise

we know that all of Madoca's offroad based mocs can go offroad, but we don't know what extreme offroad conditions his Tatra can

survive.

Like I said its difficult to pick between them. This is equal to the battle of the 918 spyder and p1, one is a no-compromise and the other one is. Zblj's

Fox is the ultimate expression of what a technic tatra can perform upto, and Madoca's tatra is the expression of what a technic tatra should compromise.

The fox is a no compromise all terrain vehicle, stripped of things Zblj thought it didn't need: no fake engine, no rear cover, no based looks, its like the p1.

Whereas the tatra is compromised, it was designed to replicate a real tatra, his tatra was built like the 918 spyder. But turns out lighter than the Fox but

slightly slower Zblj believes because of the gear ratio. Zblj's Fox is also indestructable and was designed to cope with just about anything, like a saab.

This willl be a great duel.

Here are some pictures of the 2 Tatra's in question.

Madoca's Tatra:

Zblj's Fox:

Note that both are 8x8 and are powered by multiple XL motors, instructions are available for both mocs, I think both are for free.

Let me know what you think about both mocs, both builders are amazing and you must subscribe to their youtube channels for

updates of their recent mocs. Also I'll leave a link to the video of the Fox and tatra, and also OSUHARDING1's review of Madoca's

Tatra.

Zblj's Fox:

Madoca's Tatra:

OSUHARDING1's review of Madoca's Tatra:

Thank you for reading this topic!

LeocornoProductions

Edited December 13, 2014 by LeocornoProductions

[D3K]

Nice write-up, and I agree on all your views! It's pretty much function over form on the FOX, which is truly an impressive creation, while Madoca's Tatra has the usual attention to detail he has become known for, while still performing admirably! For sheer oofroad awesomeness, I'm pretty sure the FOX will beat the Tatra. By that I am absolutely not saying it is the better MOC.

Not having built any of these, I don't have first hand experience.

It will sure be interesting to see them pitted against each other.

I recently discovered OSUharding's youtube channel, and must say I like the reviews he's given on several notable MOCs, letting us all have a second opinion on these

[vliet]

I have built the fox with power puller wheels and it is just massive and powerfull with 8 xl motors. Madocas Tatra looks great maybe I Am going to built it but I don't have all the parts at the moment

Edited December 14, 2014 by vliet

[Madoca 1977]

Honestly, I think Fox would win. Because... well, Zblj's video shows everything.

But this is not a simple case because these two MOCs have many differences. Although their suspensions are both tatra-type, they have different drive train and different speed.

I was thinking simply about power-to-weight ratio.

Fox: 4.0kg, driven by 8 XL motors

My Tatra: 2.8kg, driven by 2 XL motors

That means...

Fox: 0.5kg per one XL motor

Tatra: 1.4kg per one XL motor

And gear ratio.

Fox: 3:1

Tatra: 9:1(high) 25:1(low)

So Tatra's XL motors have three times more torque (in low gear) than Fox's.

Torque

Fox: 1x8 = 8

Tatra: 3x2 = 6

Power-to-weight ratio

Fox: 8/4.0 = 2/kg

Tatra: 6/2.8 = 2.14285714.../kg

I am surprized to know that they are so close on paper!

[Zerobricks]

Like I said in youtube I am honored to see this upcoming comparison!

Didnt knew you had such high gear ratio, 50x XL torque?

Thats crazy, but yes you do have more gears etc...

I think the tyres will play a crucial role too, yours are light but hard, mine are heavy and more rubbery.

Cant wait

[Kelkschiz]

Isn't that a bit like comparing apples to oranges? We will see, should be interesting!

[jantjeuh]

The Fox has 8 XL motors?! Damn, and I thought I had a lot of them with four. I must say I prefer the aesthestics and build quality of Madoca's model, but I think the Fox will beat it in sheer offroad capabilities. Looking forward to the video!

Here's a comparison of their parts lists, for those interested: http://rebrickable.c...-2180/MOC-1963. As you can see Madoca's Tatra uses about 600 parts more, but has 6 fewer XL motors.

Edited December 14, 2014 by jantjeuh

[LeocornoProductions]

Thank you guys for commenting

But I'm glad to see that despite this disadvantage, Madoca isn't chickening out, like ferrari did against mclaren and porsche. And yes tires are crucial; the Fox's

tires work really well offroad, but Madoca's tatra's tires are really stable indoors. Like I said though, its like the p1 and 918, the p1 is much lighter, makes more

downforce and has more power, but the 918 still keeps up with it. On paper the mclaren f1 has a better power to weight ratio than a veyron, but the veyron destroys

it in a race. For Madoca's tatra, its 2nd gear looks about as fast as the Fox's top speed, which evens it out a bit. But the fact that the Fox has 4 times as much power

and torque, means that it can climb over more tricky objects. Like it could climb out of a miny ditch.

But if you can't decide which one to take, I have have a solution. Take both; they are equaly as amazing as each other

[Tommy Styrvoky]

One solution is to have a tug of war, but both vehicles need the same tires... and see what gears snap first

Edited December 14, 2014 by Tommy Styrvoky

[Rockbrick]

Depends on the comparison....

Madoca's 8x8 is very technically complex - out in the rough could it last as well as something with 8 motors and less gears to go wrong?

Also to note the Fox is a creation of the owner - yes its Tatra-esque but doesn't claim to be so, Madocas claims to be a Tatra but tatra's don't have portal axles (pinzgauers do for example but only 6x6)

the portal axles are a necessity though for the gearing and hubs...

Performance-wise nothing beats the Fox

in Looks Madoca's 8x8 attention to detail with the roll cage etc.. is beautifully done

I think they are so different that they are both winners and should be in everyone's to do list one day (if you have no wife or kids and you can spend the money only on lego...)

[Osuharding1]

I guess I need to start saving my money so I can buy a few more XL motors... I only own 6 of them and 2 are already used in Madoca's Tatra. I am certainly planning to do this head-to-head comparison in 2015. I would be interested to hear a few ideas on what people would like to see the two models do against each other... I think the tug-o-war would be interesting but they might pull one another apart and not really prove anything other than who built a more reinforced frame/chassis.

[Meatman]

Lego had XL motors on sale along with a bunch of other Technic sets last week.

[Thirdwigg]

Cool idea. It makes me wonder what other Trial Truck comparisons could be done. We could in affect create an international truck trial competition.

I'm interested.

[LeocornoProductions]

Yeah, OSUHARDING1

I had several ideas for head to heads, but I'll only tell you the ones which are relevant

to you; I don't want you to waste your money on unnecessary bricks ;)

You said to me quote 'you've inspired me to build Jurgens koenigsegg for Christmas', a

great head to head would be jurgens koenigsegg vs crowkillers vampire gt, and another

one would be his sunbeam corvette vs crowkillers phantasm twin turbo. Both builders are

extremely talented at building non-motorized mocs. But I like to say that sheepo is the

best at building motorized mocs and crowkillers is the best at building non-motorized

mocs. But jurgens koenigsegg is my favourite non-motorized moc.

And what about a rally car race, I can't think of any rally cars with instructions at

the moment but feel free to name some. But yeah I have been dying to see technic head

to heads, I thought about doing it a few months ago, but I'm sure OSUHARDING1 will do

a better job ;)

[XAxles]

On paper the mclaren f1 has a better power to weight ratio than a veyron, but the veyron destroys

it in a race.

Not in 1998 and in Le Mans, and not with a legendary livery. Edited December 17, 2014 by XAxles

[LeocornoProductions]

Livery and legends have nothing to do with this discussion, the fact is that the

McLaren f1 (road car) has a power to weight ratio of around 570hp per ton, whereas

a Veyron has 514hp per ton but despite this, the Bugatti beat the McLaren. Top gear

clearly stated that the McLaren has a better power to weight ratio, and the race results

clearly showed that the Veyron is faster. If you can't figure this out, then that's your

God given right to remain stupid.

[PROlego]

I think the Fox will win but if I was given the oportunity to choose one I think I will choose the Tatra (or maybe not, to get those XL motors :P)

Edited December 17, 2014 by PROlego

[TheNextLegoDesinger]

The Fox slips because the tyregrooves are to smal and the mud just stays inside it. If both had 3rd party tyres (same type) the fox would win.

Although the Fox has good technical stuf it just looks awful because of the green tyres.

Thank you guys for commenting

But I'm glad to see that despite this disadvantage, Madoca isn't chickening out, like ferrari did against mclaren and porsche. And yes tires are crucial; the Fox's

tires work really well offroad, but Madoca's tatra's tires are really stable indoors. Like I said though, its like the p1 and 918, the p1 is much lighter, makes more

downforce and has more power, but the 918 still keeps up with it. On paper the mclaren f1 has a better power to weight ratio than a veyron, but the veyron destroys

it in a race. For Madoca's tatra, its 2nd gear looks about as fast as the Fox's top speed, which evens it out a bit. But the fact that the Fox has 4 times as much power

and torque, means that it can climb over more tricky objects. Like it could climb out of a miny ditch.

But if you can't decide which one to take, I have have a solution. Take both; they are equaly as amazing as each other

like you said tyres are crucial but it isn't that the fox his tyres are beter no, both tyres aren't placed wel. The Fox his tyres are made for a dirt bike and madoccas for road.

Give them Both good 3rd party tyres and it wil be much beter. than you can comparis them. Now on offroad all the torque get lost because the tyres can't get the torque "on the ground".

Madocca's Tatra weighs more but probraly this means it can diliver more torque on the ground.

An offroad track would make the conclusion

[zux]

TheNextLegoDesinger, don't underestimate those green tires, they have more grip and softness than any other tire LEGO has ever produced. Oh, and they look really cool on a Fox.

[LeocornoProductions]

Well they don't have to have the same tires, well that's up to OSUHARDING1 whether he

wants to do that. And its up to Madoca and Zblj, whether they would like modifications

on their vehicles. But in real life when auto testers are doing track battles with

Supercars and such, they don't have the same tires. People still compare a Veyron to

a P1, even though they were made for different purposes, and optimized for different

characteristics. One is a top speed car, the other is a drivers car.

Both vehicles don't have to be exactly even or the same, otherwise its too predictable.

Porsche 918 vs McLaren P1, the P1 has 30 more horsepower and weighs 300kg less, but the

918 has 300 more torque's and is Awd, but the p1 can make more than twice more downforce

than the 918. If the tatras were both the same there would be nothing to compare.

[XAxles]

For LeoCorno, yes, the livery and whether or not the F1 is the more legendary car than the Veyron is just an overly subjective argument, but what I meant with what I said is that the Veyron can't possibly mess with the F1 on what it can do, and the F1 has proven more than the Veyron. That much is certain. But of course, the Veyron has a quad-turbo W16 yet looks like a super-widebody Beetle, but look at the respect auto scribes have lavished (though some have taken away) the Veyron for just being too marvelously fast.

I've seen the TG ep between the Veyron and McLaren, an yes I rooted for the Veyron, but tell me: Can the Veyron stand up against the GT1 grid in Le Mans 1996-99?That's what I meant. There will be places where the Veyron can beat the F1, but the F1 can beat the Veyron in other places.

"Not in 1998 and in Le Mans, and not in a legendary livery" means that the F1 can destroy the Veyron in a different kind of race...one that goes on for 24 hours.