Phred

USS Constitution: a work in progress

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i know she was big and sturdy *sweet*

i wonder if she would have been stronger than Jylland

(not looking at propulsion disadvantages though :-P ) man i loved that ship *wub*

and yours too ofcourse :-$

and when this ship is finished you would like to build Hms Sophia?

i've been looking round on the internet for models of the ship but my results we're quite poor actually *wacko*

Edited by Errorist

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...

I'd still prefer the Surprise over the Constitution. ;-)

Hmm... I dunno which i would prefer *wacko*

Would you boys like an American flag to go with the ship the same as the others I've done?

Heck yes i would! *y*

The flag i'd like looks kinda like this one (15 stars and 15 stripes):

380px-US_flag_15_stars.svg.png

...

and when this ship is finished you would like to build Hms Sophia?

i've been looking round on the internet for models of the ship but my results we're quite poor actually *wacko*

Here be my BS folder with pics of an HMS Sophie model.

Also, Here's a link to the original website those pics are found in and here be a handy little website which shows how the HMS Sophie is comparable to the actual HMS Speedy. X-D

The sophie is mostly based off of the HMS Speedy.

P

Edited by phred

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I've already done a series of American flags which I've delayed for a bit though the 15 star might be difficult. I'll see if I can tweek it to get you what you want. That particular version with the 15 bars was very short lived before the 13 bar version was revived. If I can't make the 15 star and bars work I'll atleast have a workable Star spangled banner for you. Do you have Adobe Illustrator, Mr Phes has suggested a method on there to smooth out the pixelation from my flags as they were done on MSPaint.

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Wow, the ship is looking very good. I am eager to see how it will look at the end of your project. *wub*

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I've already done a series of American flags which I've delayed for a bit though the 15 star might be difficult. I'll see if I can tweek it to get you what you want. That particular version with the 15 bars was very short lived before the 13 bar version was revived. If I can't make the 15 star and bars work I'll atleast have a workable Star spangled banner for you. Do you have Adobe Illustrator, Mr Phes has suggested a method on there to smooth out the pixelation from my flags as they were done on MSPaint.

I knew that the 15 stars and stripes was very short lived.

Pretty much only used during the war of 1812 X-D (which is when i'd like to model this Constitution *y* )

I'm really sure i have Adobe 8-|

If not, i'm sure my school does. X-D

No hurry about the flag though, it's going to be a while before this ship is done ;-)

P

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I knew that the 15 stars and stripes was very short lived.

Pretty much only used during the war of 1812 X-D (which is when i'd like to model this Constitution *y* )

I'm really sure i have Adobe 8-|

If not, i'm sure my school does. X-D

No hurry about the flag though, it's going to be a while before this ship is done ;-)

P

Well this isn't exactly McDonalds but your order went through pretty quick, largely because I've been busy with American flags. I wasn't going to bother with the 15 stars and bars but it's complete now, the design was unfortunately very difficult as I've found with most these flags given that the size and ratio of the designs work out usually a lot more rectangular than the official lego flags so Unfortunately the blue part of the flag is more dominating but I've managed to get all 15 stars and bars in their correct place, hope this will be satisfactory. Will add your flag here after a couple final touches.

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Well this isn't exactly McDonalds but your order went through pretty quick, largely because I've been busy with American flags. I wasn't going to bother with the 15 stars and bars but it's complete now, the design was unfortunately very difficult as I've found with most these flags given that the size and ratio of the designs work out usually a lot more rectangular than the official lego flags so Unfortunately the blue part of the flag is more dominating but I've managed to get all 15 stars and bars in their correct place, hope this will be satisfactory. Will add your flag here after a couple final touches.

*wub* Thank you Col. :'-)

That's awesome!

Sorry, I didn't mean to come across as ordering blush.gif.

I just had to say this though X-D (hey can i get a side of fries with my order :-P )

P

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*wub* Thank you Col. :'-)

That's awesome!

Sorry, I didn't mean to come across as ordering blush.gif.

I just had to say this though X-D (hey can i get a side of fries with my order :-P )

P

Sure you can have fries but by the time they arrive from England you might not be so hungry. As for the flag index, yes I think indexing the way the torsos were done should be fine, in part the flags were developed so people would make use of them and the torsos to really add national character to the various MOC's. So in some ways it's building on where Mosana was heading. The problem being as per my discussions with our Australian Conquistador - Mr Phes that the flags having been designed on MSPaint are very pixelated and need to be run through Adobe Illustrator to smooth out the jagged edges. I am totally unable to download the program but really the flags should only be indexed once they have been cleaned up so right now I'm hoping someone will do that with all the flags and continue to do so for future designs or unfortunately we will have to wait until I have a new PC capable of running the program. Until then there might not be much point in indexing the flags, unless of course it's easy to update them but I'm no expert there.

You're really into the War of 1812 aren't you? It's a rather uneventful and inconsequential war, so much so that very few people even know of it so it's surprising to see the interest.

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Sure you can have fries but by the time they arrive from England you might not be so hungry. As for the flag index, yes I think indexing the way the torsos were done should be fine, in part the flags were developed so people would make use of them and the torsos to really add national character to the various MOC's. So in some ways it's building on where Mosana was heading. The problem being as per my discussions with our Australian Conquistador - Mr Phes that the flags having been designed on MSPaint are very pixelated and need to be run through Adobe Illustrator to smooth out the jagged edges. I am totally unable to download the program but really the flags should only be indexed once they have been cleaned up so right now I'm hoping someone will do that with all the flags and continue to do so for future designs or unfortunately we will have to wait until I have a new PC capable of running the program. Until then there might not be much point in indexing the flags, unless of course it's easy to update them but I'm no expert there.

You're really into the War of 1812 aren't you? It's a rather uneventful and inconsequential war, so much so that very few people even know of it so it's surprising to see the interest.

Sweet! I'll be looking forward to the fries :-D

About the Flags, whatever has been done can easily be updated in the index once you make an updated version ;-)

(depending on how far get X-D )

Hopefully you can get the edges smoothed out *y*

Yes i'm into the war of 1812. Mainly the because it's the first time that our pitifully small navy went went to war against a world superpower. I mainly like to read about the ship combat between "yankee" ships vs. the british ships.

P

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Here we go... this is cheating a bit as I haven't yet announced the American flags and I hadn't planned on doing the 15-15 one but I owe you this one for organising an index, btw, perhaps we should have wikipedia links to these flags so people can better understand the history, I've tried to do that in the threads.

lego_american_15-15_flag.gif

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Here we go... this is cheating a bit as I haven't yet announced the American flags and I hadn't planned on doing the 15-15 one but I owe you this one for organising an index, btw, perhaps we should have wikipedia links to these flags so people can better understand the history, I've tried to do that in the threads.

- snip -

Thanx Col. Whipsitck! *y*

I'll do best to get wiki links in the flag index.

P

Edited by phred

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I don't think the War of 1812 was quite as one sided militarily, that was just the problem, neither of the two sides ever conclusively got the better of the other. Yes Great Britain was a world superpower compared to the US at the time which was something like a moderate European country but in the end of the day the problem with all empires and the British Empire in particular is that they had limited resources that were always stretched across several continents. You also have to remember that the energies of all England and later Britain had been put into the 13 colonies so when those got independence Great Britain had lost a hell of a lot of it's manpower, wealth, resources and the country was heavily winded. Don't confuse the British Empire at 1812 with the British Empire at 1912 which was more like the huge superpower you're implying. Whilst the navy was indeed impressive and still the world's largest until after WWII the British Army has always been fairly miniscule and that's all the more reason that they relied heavily on the navy, had Napolean actually landed in Britain her land forces would never have been able to hold the French off. If you look closely at Britain's history, her army has always been used in a limited and strategic capacity, Britain has never been the Imperial land force that France, Spain, Germany and Russia have been, if anything Britain has only been there to frustrate and counter those because of the channel they just couldn't get across.

So in terms of the War of 1812, don't think of it so much as the US versus the British Empire because particularly at that time the British were more worried about France and most their forces were dedicated to that threat. The war of 1812 is really more about a war between the US and Canada given that's the British forces concerned and whilst the war because of it's indifferent course and results has never been considered a focal point for either the Americans or British but the Canadians are quite proud of it as one of their few occasions to declare they gave their southern neighbours a run for their money. So ironically while Americans might see it as little them against Goliath Britain, the Canadians see themselves as the little ones fighting off an aggressive Goliath America.

I'm a little rusty with the history in this area but I do believe that the first White House was actually burnt down by the Canadian-British forces when they invaded Philidelphia so the the White House we all know now is actually the second one. Going back to the War of Independence however I'm curious as to what made the colonists north of the St. Lawrence stay loyal to Britain whilst I know the reasons for those rebelling in the south. There is nothing to destinguish Americans and Canadians at the time, they were all simply British colonists if you follow...

Generally the War of 1812 was just too soon after the War of Independence and neither side had the energy to really make much of it. I think the US saw that Britain was distracted by Napolean and figured they might have a bit of luck and get hold of Canada. Given that France helped the rebels substantially during the War of Independence and that the Americans already had poor relations with Britain at the time really from an American standpoint there was nothing to lose by going for Canada, they had the political climate to succeed but not the military ability to back this up. At any rate, the War of Independence, War of 1812 and the American Civil War I tend to see in the same light as the English Civil War because in the end of the day it's all just Anglo-Saxon/Celtic people fighting other Anglo-Saxon/Celtic people. One of my pet peevs these days is hearing some Englishman, Scot, American, Australian, Canadian etc slate one of the others. We're all the same people really and have much bigger threats out there. It's ridiculous why politics of the world have gone the way they have, especially considering the 20th century. A political union of the English countries should always have been our destiny. Why on God's green earth Britain is in the EU, Australia is a Chinese colony and the US is it's own little world is beyond me. It could all have been so much better... :hmpf:

Edited by Col. Whipstick

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This thread is getting kind of off-topic, and I don't feel like posting my oppinion of "better", but I just want to say that some of the American colonists were also French and German, so we're not necessarily "all the same people."

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This thread is getting kind of off-topic, and I don't feel like posting my oppinion of "better", but I just want to say that some of the American colonists were also French and German, so we're not necessarily "all the same people."

No one is suggesting otherwise but the 13 Colonies were British colonies, certainly at the time of the American Revolution, not French or German colonies regardless of them living there so they were primarily settled by Brits and Irish and certainly regarding colonial regions outside the US the mass multiculturalism is a relatively new condition owing to global liberal political agendas of the later 20th century.

The ship is from the War of 1812 and that post was on the War of 1812 so I feel it is perfectly within the realms of the topic. Things have more often than not deviated considerably more off topic in other threads but that isn't picked up. Your reason for protest here whilst evident from your having differing opinions in no way lessens the significance of that particular post being relevant to the War of 1812.

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This thread is getting kind of off-topic, and I don't feel like posting my oppinion of "better", but I just want to say that some of the American colonists were also French and German, so we're not necessarily "all the same people."

Thanx Admiral for your concern :-)

I think i'll allow this kind of off-topicness to continue a little longer,

so feel free to post your comment. X-D

Col.

I think what the admiral means by off-topic is discussing the war of 1812 and not this MOC. :-)

[history lesson]

From what i've read of the war of 1812,

the US didn't want to try to take over canada.

US merchant crews were getting pressed into British naval service (cause many americans looked British) when they're trying to trade as a neutral country.

US trading plummeted when their merchant ships didn't go to sea.

This was the main reason we went to war with britian.

Britain was at war with france, which is why they impressed US crews into their service.

And why the US thought we stood a chance against britian if we went to war.

In the begining of the war, we had 17 war ships, the biggest being the original 6 frigates like the constitution. Great Britain sent about 100 war ships of their 900 ship navy against the US. With some of them being ship-of-lines (the largest being a first rate). The US navy should have been easily squashed, but it wasn't.

To me, that's what i find amazing about the War of 1812. There were 26 ship to ship engagements between US and British forces. The US won 14 of them. Granted during much of the war, US ships were stuck in ports by british ship-of-the-lines, but once there was a fog, or inclinate weather, those ships would be gone. Also, the US did loose 2 of the 6 original super-frigates in this war. :'-(

However during the war, british ships were commanded to not engage a US frigate alone after losing 3 of their frigates (one was britian's best frigate and another was a new french frigate that the british took over) and the US had yet to lose a frigate. The US did lose one frigate in single ship-to-ship combat, otherwise i'm really sure other frigates that Britain took out numbered US ships at least 2 to 1 (the US did make and purchased smaller frigates during the war).

Then the british made Razees to counter the super-frigates (not too sure with that though 8-| ).

When the war was over, not much was really accomplished for either side. The one thing that did happen though was that the US merchant crews were no longer pressed into service by British war ships.

[/history lesson]

I don't have the books in front of me anymore (had to return them to the library |-/ ),

so what i remember might be inaccurate. Granted this is all information from books written in the US.

I'd be curious if there are British accounts of this war that are different.

Edited by phred

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I doubt there is a 'British version', not that kind of country and at any rate I get most my immediate information from Wikipedia. I wasn't suggesting that the key reason behind the war was an attempted invasion of Canada but pointing out that the Canadians did well in the land engagements and regard the war as a historical feather in their cap.

Your synopsis on the naval activities proved interesting reading. Did you say Razees? I have no idea what that means but I'll look it up. And that's the reason I think it's important with these MOC threads to bring in the history because there's a fair bit to be learnt. I'm disappointed with the general historical knowledge in this forum and I'll wager many here haven't even heard of the War of 1812, in part because it's a relatively minor war but nonetheless for the type of forum this is I feel people should have a more all round knowledge of 'Colonial History' and I think it gives more meaning to the MOC's when people understand when, where and why the model is being made, especially in the case of the Constitution as it was a real ship. As I've explained before I don't have access to my lego and as always we are limited by the pieces we have but if I did have the opporunity to make MOC's I'd always want to build something historical and provide a little background information with it. I'm not being mean to the other members but I'll always be more interested in something like the USS Constitution rather than someone just making a generic USS ship because some research has gone into it and the history is there, that's why I was willing to make an appropriate flag for you.

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Your synopsis on the naval activities proved interesting reading. Did you say Razees? I have no idea what that means but I'll look it up.

Razees were essentially ship of the lines (two deckers), re-fitted to serve as big giant frigates as opposed to genuine ship of the lines. They had the room for heavy caliber guns and could thus more than take on the American super-frigates. Think of a super-super-frigate or sorts.

The Americans always make things bigger, I wonder how an American first-rate would have looked like X-D :-)

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Col.

I agree, most of the fighting was done around the great lakes against British-Canadian troops. That's also where most of the 26 ship to ship engagements were.

Razees were essentially ship of the lines (two deckers), re-fitted to serve as big giant frigates as opposed to genuine ship of the lines. They had the room for heavy caliber guns and could thus more than take on the American super-frigates. Think of a super-super-frigate or sorts.

The Americans always make things bigger, I wonder how an American first-rate would have looked like X-D :-)

Pretty much Mr. Ruben. Just that by being refitted means that the top deck of the ship was removed. Usually done to 74's (probably because they were the most common X-D ) and then those ships would be refitted with around 50 long guns.

There is the USS Ohio, here's the wiki link. I'm pretty sure it's the largest ship-of-line made by the US.

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Interesting side point but somewhat relevant considering the War of 1812 - Did you know that the US/Canadian border is the longest undefended border in the world? That brief period from the revolution to the conclusion of the war seems to be the only real period of hostility between the US and the British Empire and as is certainly clear by history ever since the two are sinonymous militarily and culturally as they were prior to the Revolution.

I've been across the border between the States and Canada a couple times and once across the Great Lakes via ferry though that was some time ago. It's interesting how some of the islands are declared Canadian and some American but that both countries had to agree to some strange set of rules as to what qualifies as an island - apparently it needs to have 2 trees and be atleast 20 square metres or something like that. Anyway going off topic there but found it amusing enough to share. For that matter I'm sure I recall the ferry operator saying something about piracy operations within the Great Lakes so perhaps that brings it all even closer to this forum.

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There is the USS Ohio, here's the wiki link. I'm pretty sure it's the largest ship-of-line made by the US.

As a ship of the line she wasn't that big actually i'd say she was normal size for a 100+ gun ship.

Back on your constitution though :-P have you made any progress yet since the last pictures? *wub*

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Did you know that the US/Canadian border is the longest undefended border in the world? That brief period from the revolution to the conclusion of the war seems to be the only real period of hostility between the US and the British Empire and as is certainly clear by history ever since the two are sinonymous militarily and culturally as they were prior to the Revolution.

...

Of course i knew that our border w/ Canada is the longest undefended one. :-P X-D

I live in Wisconsin after all, which isn't too far from our northern neighbor. ;-)

Canadians do have a different dialect from most of the US. The Yooper dialect and Canadian Dialect sound a lot alike.

...

Back on your constitution though :-P have you made any progress yet since the last pictures? *wub*

Working on my IMTP ship and sorting all the bricks i got for christmas right now. X-D

Will work on it again once i'm done w/ my contest entry (maybe).

P

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Well i borrowed Casewindu's shield.

prog_me-n-shield.png

The shield told me i should start over on my constituion again.

And of course i listened:

prog3.png

I finally got some free time today and worked on my constitution.

The ship on the left is the one i've stopped working on,

and the one on the right is the one i started on today.

The second main reason i started over was that the bow was too weak for my likings,

so i sacrificed a little accuracy to get a design that's much sturdier so far. *y*

Also the interior is much cleaer than it was before too. X-D

P

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Aha yet again a rebuild. *sweet*

How are you going to build the bow then?

Sturdiness is something which i already found out to be essential when building models this size

so i would say the sturdier the better :-D

Which color will your deck be in? Brown or tan or something else?

BTW both these versions look awesome. Keep up the good work *y*

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I really admire you for starting such a big project. Those initial hulls both look good!

But I can't yet extrapolate in my mind what the end result will look like judging from these pics.

Keep us informed!

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