The CCBS "Improvement" Thread

[Mandate]

In order to prevent further derailing of the BIONICLE thread, I've created this.

You can discuss ways/theories to improve CCBS and/or provide pictures of said ways in here

Have fun everyone!

[arc]

I'll paraphrase what I said about CCBS in the bio 2015 topic, I don't miss the technic armor connections necessarily, but I do miss the variety of textures and designs we had. Like if they made torso Shells that look like inika or nuva torso armor. And limb shells like rahkshi, metru, inika, piraka, etc. CCBS would be 10 times better for me.

The new add on piece is a great start, so I'm hoping we something like that as a shell at some point. This is just the first wave after all.

And while I'm at it, some new feet would be pretty nice too. We've had the 2.0 foot since 2011, I think it's time we added a little more variety.

EDIT: just saw there was a ccbs discussion thread over here:

http://www.eurobricks.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=80037&st=25

It could probably be merged, but that's up to mr. Moderator.

Edited October 18, 2014 by arc

[Aanchir]

One of the things I've wanted for quite a while would be some type of symmetrical shell that can snap to the lowest ball joint on a torso beam and act as a "codpiece" so that it's easier to create custom armor for a model's upper body without leaving the lower body completely bare. A shell like that could also be used on other parts of a model, such as arms or legs.

[Lego Dino 500]

I would love to see some more female-female leg pieces, and some male-male elbow joint pieces again. Something that greatly annoys me about CCBS is the lack of any close technic integration (you can't use technic or old style bionicle armor pieces due to the lack of technic). It would be extremely beneficial if they scrapped the integrated balljoint in CCBS limbs and use technic pinholes. Then you can use technic wherever, and if you need to use a CCBS shell, just use a 3 length lift arm with balljoint. That seems like a good compromise.

[Chimaninja454]

Good idea. JayWalker!

[Mesonak]

I'd just like a few new shells; that's all I really want (especially what Aanchir suggested). I understand the standardized concept of CCBS, but unless I'm completely wrong, we haven't gotten a new armor shell since winter 2011 (not counting torso armor).

I'm also always welcome to the addition of new bone pieces. :P

Edited October 18, 2014 by Mesonak

[TheOneVeyronian]

Personally, I'd like to see new kinds of basic shells (not including torso shells). The problem with the ones we currently have is that they only cover 3 sides, so I'd like to see a system of shells that can solve this problem. This could utilise a clip-in system using two pieces, with one shell piece being similar to the shells we currently have (except that they're symmetrical and have holes in the free ended sides) and having a second, flat shell piece with protrusions that insert into holes in the first shell, like a clip. I'm not best at describing things so here's a picture of what I mean:

It'll probably never work, but it's an idea to try and resolve the gappiness of the shells without the end result looking really chunky (like if you use this part attached to a 7M bone for example).

Regarding the bones themselves, as well as male-male and female-female bones mentioned by other people, I would like to see an "inverse" of the currently available 6M bones, with the pin hole closest to the end of the bone that has the balljoint. I'd like to see a similar thing with the current 4M, 6M and 8M shells, but with the position of the ballcup instead, though this is all fairly unlikely I guess to simply avoid confusion with the casual builder.

I also echo the sentiments shared by others regarding the need for new torso bones, feet (I'm completely sick of 2.0 feet!) and hands with the capacity for articulated fingers (I've even come up with a concept sketch for the latter in the past, so it's something I'd really like to see in the future of CCBS, along with the shell idea)

[Mesonak]

feet (I'm completely sick of 2.0 feet!)

OH YEAH, I forgot about feet. Yeah, I'll take those over new bones or shells. The 2.0 feet have overstayed their welcome and they need to leave forever. Also, top notch shell idea. :P

[Mandate]

I think the whole standardization is the main gripe I have with CCBS. Lack of variation is infuriating for me. All I want to see mainly is bone pieces with Technic holes instead of balls for armor attachment alongside what we've currently got. It would do wonders for variation and Titan construction.

[Aanchir]

OH YEAH, I forgot about feet. Yeah, I'll take those over new bones or shells. The 2.0 feet have overstayed their welcome and they need to leave forever. Also, top notch shell idea. :P

To be honest, the 2.0 Hero feet don't bother me much. Certainly not as much as the way so many later BIONICLE feet had giant protruding heels. I think they're a great fit for many figures, especially larger ones (26 to 28 modules tall) like the new Tahu and Kopaka.

If we get a new foot that can replace the 2.0 hero foot then that's all well and good, but in most cases I'd prefer parts that satisfy a new niche versus ones that simply take the place of current parts. The feet from the Invasion from Below beasts were a good example. Both designs had a more "creature-like" look than the basic hero feet, plus the potential for articulated toes. And the smaller feet in particular provide an option for Matoran-sized models like the new Protectors.

An option for smaller feet that are less creature-like could be cool, but preferably one that complements (not completely replaces) the current feet.

[Logan McOwen]

• New feet for sure.
  
• New shapes of shells. Blockier ones maybe, or ones more inspired by muscle structure. Or maybe some that are more sleek than the current set.
  
• More integration of gears.
  
• New torso bones. The current four styles are great and all, but new shapes would be nice to see. Maybe something without shoulder joints, so as to be more accommodating to gearboxes?
  

[Scarilian]

Add more intriguing mouldings to the flatter segments of the design

[Lord-Vorahk]

I'd like them to put some more technic integration, and some new feet.

[Echo]

Eh... I don't know that I'll ever really like the CCBS. Granted, I only own CHI Worriz and Eris, so my experience is limited, but that's because it just doesn't appeal to me much. It ends up looking really gappy and the uncovered bits of the bones end up looking really skinny and awkward. Even attempts to fill in the backs, which is appreciated, don't really work for me because since all the shell pieces are so thin and flat, they don't add any substance to the build and results look quite hollow. I also really don't like how it seems that shoulders typically look under-armored. This is because the shell pieces don't reach far enough up the bone to cover the connection point at the should, so there ends up being exposed ball joints that make the figures look too skinny. Finally, even though people insist that the CCBS is extremely versatile, (And this is actually easy enough to see in this years HF sets, so I'm not saying it is entirely untrue.) I just have difficulty seeing how to make a standard Toa type biped any differently than the standard method.

[Mandate]

Eh... I don't know that I'll ever really like the CCBS. Granted, I only own CHI Worriz and Eris, so my experience is limited, but that's because it just doesn't appeal to me much. It ends up looking really gappy and the uncovered bits of the bones end up looking really skinny and awkward. Even attempts to fill in the backs, which is appreciated, don't really work for me because since all the shell pieces are so thin and flat, they don't add any substance to the build and results look quite hollow. I also really don't like how it seems that shoulders typically look under-armored. This is because the shell pieces don't reach far enough up the bone to cover the connection point at the should, so there ends up being exposed ball joints that make the figures look too skinny. Finally, even though people insist that the CCBS is extremely versatile, (And this is actually easy enough to see in this years HF sets, so I'm not saying it is entirely untrue.) I just have difficulty seeing how to make a standard Toa type biped any differently than the standard method.

I... agree with you on everything. CCBS would be more forgivabe if they did parts BIONICLE never did, like maybe a ball cup with a technic pin on the end, better bones (and more variation) etc. There's just far too much wrong with it and it's seriously starting to stagnate now.

[Leewan]

CCBS would be more forgivabe if they did parts BIONICLE never did

Oh yeah, like... well, basically everything, since CCBS is totally different from the Bionicle system.

There's just far too much wrong with it and it's seriously starting to stagnate now.

Yes, perhaps we didn't get many new parts lately. But is it necessary ? The Bionicle system relied (too) heavily on new parts, which I really didn't like. The CCBS-based sets keep getting more and more creative (just look at this year's Furno's Jet Machine, or Surge and Rocka's Combat Machine, or the Queen Beast, or last year's Chi Cragger), and this without the need of tons and tons of new parts each year.

In which way coulkd there be too much wrong with it ?

Edited October 23, 2014 by Leewan

[Mandate]

Queen Beast was ugly and insanely gappy, Furno's Jet Machine was a one-off (need I remind you of Stormer's Machine? Or EVO Walker?). And given that the new BIONICLE sets do very little with CCBS itself and rely on ugly backpacks for everything, it's 1 step forward 2 steps back (that being said, I'll take BIONICLE 2015 over any of the previous HF stuff). But there's nothing new, nothing that expands what we can do. Live in a world of cubes and eventually you'll forget circles are possible. We haven't seen any kind of Technic being integrated into the fabric of the building system, and both IFB and B15 were largely unsuccessful on this. IFB really did push the limits of CCBS, but then we came straight back to where we started from except with... shoulder armor yay!

We haven't seen torso articulation (something that was a staple element of later Titans in BIONICLE), even though fan-done tests have shown that it wouldn't be a disaster like Pridak, and with Friction Joints it's no longer an excuse regardless. We haven't seen new bones since 2011, we haven't seen new shells since 2011, all we've seen since then is aesthetic parts and three new parts, only two of which actually were CCBS parts. The shell system has seen no innovation whatsoever, even with the parts introduced to make them attach to the backs of legs. They're still gappy, they're still generic to the point they're specialized in what you can use them for.

It's an outright disaster that CCBS has stagnated in such a way, and if anything it makes me feel like even LEGO recognizes that it would be easier to start over with a new system rather than bother making new parts, and just for a final test to see if Constraction still works they're giving BIONICLE fans a treat. Far-fetched, I know. But it's how I feel, and not something I would argue.

[Leewan]

(need I remind you of Stormer's Machine? Or EVO Walker?)

Evo Walker has an original structure, and a pretty good design for such an original 10$/€ set.

And given that the new BIONICLE sets do very little with CCBS itself and rely on ugly backpacks for everything,

Only the Toa, actually. Wait until the next wave, we'll probalby see more villains, and not necessarily humanoids ones.

We haven't seen any kind of Technic being integrated into the fabric of the building system, and both IFB and B15 were largely unsuccessful on this

Witch Doctor. And it's your opinion. I think the IFB Machines did a really good job. It's my opinion.

(something that was a staple element of later Titans in BIONICLE)

Only Maxilos, actually.

We haven't seen new bones since 2011

Okay, now tell me, which kind of new bones do you want ?

[Mandate]

Evo Walker has an original structure, and a pretty good design for such an original 10$/€ set.

I wasn't saying it was unoriginal, it just looked pretty bad aesthetically. If I had spare cash I would buy it for the parts.

Only the Toa, actually. Wait until the next wave, we'll probalby see more villains, and not necessarily humanoids ones.

The Toa were the only ones I was referring to. Although I will admit Lewa does a nice job of smoothing out his backpack. Pohatu, Gali and Onua I can't comment yet on though. If they're anything like Kopaka's and Tahu's... well, I'm going to be unimpressed, but we've never gotten perfect sets and they are a nice upgrade from previous humanoids.

Witch Doctor. And it's your opinion. I think the IFB Machines did a really good job. It's my opinion.

Ooh, good point. I always forget about Witch Doctor and Rocka XL. Most IFB machines did, but some didn't really (eg, Rocka and Surge's Combat Machine was mainly made up of CCBS, it was just the fact that it was hollow) do much with it.

Only Maxilos, actually.

Really? I thought the Mata Nui Titan had it. Oh well, I guess I'm getting facts mixed around again

Okay, now tell me, which kind of new bones do you want ?

Ones that don't rely entirely on the shell system, all sorts of different ones. A bunch of people have been asking for various types, like a short version of the Bone "hinge" piece. Even bones that divided the torso in two, etc... a ball cup with a technic pin on the end, which would be really useful for working Technic into Titan sets. Aanchir has made some great suggestions over the years.

[Leewan]

Ooh, good point. I always forget about Witch Doctor and Rocka XL.

Oh yes, Rocka XL too. I forgot him. You could also count Furno XL's shoulder assembly, then.

eg, Rocka and Surge's Combat Machine was mainly made up of CCBS

And I think it's a very good example of what you can achieve with CCBS and few Technic. Of course, there are some flaws because it's a set, and fill the gaps would make the set too pricey, but it's still an interesting set, IMO, and a good base for MOCs and MODs.

Really? I thought the Mata Nui Titan had it.

Nope, he's like Takanuva, there are Technic beams, but no articulation.

Ones that don't rely entirely on the shell system

That would be against the main principle of CCBS.

like a short version of the Bone "hinge" piece.

Bone hinge ? I'm sorry but I'll need a brickset/briclkink link or a picture.

Even bones that divided the torso in two, etc...

That could indeed be useful, but it's not likely because of friction issues. It could work for titans, though.

a ball cup with a technic pin on the end

I'd rather put a cross axle than a round pin. I might make such a part within the next few days BTW, thanks for the idea.

Edited October 23, 2014 by Leewan

[Mandate]

Oh yes, Rocka XL too. I forgot him. You could also count Furno XL's shoulder assembly, then.

Hmm, haven't taken a look at Furno XL's shoulders. I'll download the instructions and see what it's like. I always assumed it was just

And I think it's a very good example of what you can achieve with CCBS and few Technic. Of course, there are some flaws because it's a set, and fill the gaps would make the set too pricey, but it's still an interesting set, IMO, and a good base for MOCs and MODs.

Very true. I always forget every set has budget constraints as to what they can do for sets at certain prices.

Nope, he's like Takanuva, there are Technic beams, but no articulation.

Alright, thanks for clearing that up! Glad to know more about the old sets.

That would be against the main principle of CCBS.

What I mean is, is that rather than bones that inherently attach to shells, maybe bones with just Technic holes for construction purposes? Building around the balls in a Technic-heavy MOC can be hard.

Bone hinge ? I'm sorry but I'll need a brickset/briclkink link or a picture.

Oh, sorry. Just don't know what to call this thing:

Most places I've checked refer to this and the other bone type as the same thing.

That could indeed be useful, but it's not likely because of friction issues. It could work for titans, though.

I suppose it would be treading too far to BIONICLE's past too.

I'd rather put a cross axle than a round pin. I might make such a part within the next few days BTW, thanks for the idea.

Hey, no problem!

[Aanchir]

Oh, sorry. Just don't know what to call this thing:

http://cache.lego.com/media/bricks/5/2/4589952.jpg

Most places I've checked refer to this and the other bone type as the same thing.

I usually refer to the ones like that with a knee/elbow joint as "upper limb beams" and the ones with a regular ankle/wrist joint at the end as "lower limb beams". Even though some sets like Pohatu use "lower limb beams" for their upper limbs, and some sets like XT4 use "upper limb beams" for their lower limbs, I find that when I use those terms people usually know what I'm talking about (the same way people will know what you mean by "Rahkshi lower leg" even though it's been used for upper arms on sets like Makuta or Roodaka).

Officially, the LEGO Group calls the style with a ankle/wrist joint "Beam A 5M" and the style with a knee/elbow joint "Beam B 5M". The one with a ball cup on each end is Beam C 5M. These kinds of terms are kind of unwieldy, so I sometimes rearrange them a little and call them "A" beams, "B" beams, and "C" beams. But using terms like that, average LEGO fans still won't know what you're talking about unless you provide a link or description. So it's not always too useful in online discussions.

Edited October 23, 2014 by Aanchir

[Leewan]

Very true. I always forget every set has budget constraints as to what they can do for sets at certain prices.

Unfortunately, people often do so, and sometimes judge sets a bit too severely because they forget they're... sets.

What I mean is, is that rather than bones that inherently attach to shells, maybe bones with just Technic holes for construction purposes? Building around the balls in a Technic-heavy MOC can be hard.

Oh, I see. But why do you keep asking for Technic integration ? It's much funnier to try some "pure" CCBS structures, using Technic makes thing way easier.

Oh, sorry. Just don't know what to call this thing:

Oh, a shorter version of this bone ? It's funny, because I designed one a couple months ago. It's unfortunately the shortest bone possible, unless I try something similar to this.

[KopakaFan116]

I love the CCBS.

[dviddy]

The HF limbs are in no way less filled-in than the old BIONICLE limbs which were hollow, empty, and over-detailed. No thanks. I'd rather CCBS keep doing its own thing than see it revert back to unecessary technic construction because a few fans have decided never to like it no matter how long LEGO keeps using it.