[MoC] Pennsylvania Railroad P54 Passenger Set

[zephyr1934]

So I did actually build some of these this weekend.

...

Still trying to figure out what to do about the round windows... it looks like a hole punch is too small, so I'm trying to print black circles, but I'm not sure how happy I am with that solution.

...

So I was originally going to wheel these with BBB smalls, but it looks like I can get official smalls for less than half the price on Bricklink. If I remove the tires the rolling performance seems to be just as good as the BBB wheels... is there any reason that I shouldn't get those official wheels over the BBBs?

Looking good.

For the round windows the trick is finding a hole punch in the right size. Perhaps print the size you need and then bring it to a craft store. If they scrapbooking supplies, they are likely to have a lot of different sized circular punches.

These large cars look like they are already pretty heavy, and the technic axles have a LOT of friction compared to the regular wheel sets. If you are going to power it with PF (probably XL or several L) you will probably be okay, though your couplers might break apart. You might be able to make it work with 2 9v motors as long as you don't have too many cars (I'd guess 3, but experiment to see what works).

If the technic axle trucks do have too much friction, you could build two variations, the detailed version for display (and perhaps close coupling cars) and the plain version with the stock wheel set for running.

[Aaron]

O-gauge wheels would work very well for these.

[greenmtvince]

If you want to reduce friction but use a purely Lego solution, you could try this from SavaTheAggie:

TSRR Coach #44 WiP 02 by SavaTheAggie, on Flickr

Though Tony posted earlier in the thread and didn't recommend it, so I'm not sure if it has some design flaws or won't work for your application. Basically it uses the RC wheels and holds them in place with 1x2 plates with rail. I built a set to test out the design, and it seemed pretty low friction, comparable to the brass tube method I normally use (See Railbricks #1) I didn't try it on any rolling stock to know how it worked under real world operating conditions, but might be worth a try.

[Commander Wolf]

If you want to reduce friction but use a purely Lego solution, you could try this from SavaTheAggie:

TSRR Coach #44 WiP 02 by SavaTheAggie, on Flickr

Though Tony posted earlier in the thread and didn't recommend it, so I'm not sure if it has some design flaws or won't work for your application. Basically it uses the RC wheels and holds them in place with 1x2 plates with rail. I built a set to test out the design, and it seemed pretty low friction, comparable to the brass tube method I normally use (See Railbricks #1) I didn't try it on any rolling stock to know how it worked under real world operating conditions, but might be worth a try.

Holy crap, I wish I had seen this before I just bought my 24 small PF wheels... how are the wheels kept on the axles or does this only work with the old wheel and axle?

Looking good.

For the round windows the trick is finding a hole punch in the right size. Perhaps print the size you need and then bring it to a craft store. If they scrapbooking supplies, they are likely to have a lot of different sized circular punches.

These large cars look like they are already pretty heavy, and the technic axles have a LOT of friction compared to the regular wheel sets. If you are going to power it with PF (probably XL or several L) you will probably be okay, though your couplers might break apart. You might be able to make it work with 2 9v motors as long as you don't have too many cars (I'd guess 3, but experiment to see what works).

If the technic axle trucks do have too much friction, you could build two variations, the detailed version for display (and perhaps close coupling cars) and the plain version with the stock wheel set for running.

Yeah, I'm keeping my eye out for a bigger punch. Might go to the local Micheal's today and see if they have anything. Until then, I think my interim solution will be with some sort of black and brown sticker.

Friction is actually a huge concern for me. I really wanted to make the bogies with the stock wheelsets, but I couldn't find anything I was happy with. I've done enough testing to be confident that a rake of 3 cars won't be popping couplers, but along with the T1 itself, I think 2 cars might be the maximum that my 2 9v motors can sustain for extended periods of time - even with all greased the axles. I'm definitely going to try to make something work with Sava's solution above.

Edited October 4, 2014 by Commander Wolf

[SavaTheAggie]

I didn't suggest that design because 1) it only works with the old style 9v train wheels and 2) in my experience BBB wheels on Technic axles provided less friction.

But YMMV.

--Tony

[Aaron]

Edit: Never mind, I think you found a better solution.

Edited October 9, 2014 by Aaron

[Commander Wolf]

Spent a bunch of time cutting stickers yesterday:

Short of an actual punch, I think those portals are pretty good.

I didn't suggest that design because 1) it only works with the old style 9v train wheels and 2) in my experience BBB wheels on Technic axles provided less friction.

But YMMV.

--Tony

So I set up a test where I rolled cars with different bogies down a ramp and onto a section of straight track to see how far each car+bogie set traveled. For the most part it looked like the rail solution was beating out the Technic solution by a pretty good margin, so I spent a ton of time trying to make rail bogies where the wheels were still centered in the 1x1s with 4 studs. But after having built them now it seems like the difference in friction is a lot less, so I'm trying to debug it...

I'm surprised that in your experience the Technic setup rolls better though. I would not expect that. Do you grease your axle/holders? If so with what?

[SavaTheAggie]

I found in curves, the metal axles slowed down considerably more than Technic axles. Over time the metal axles started squeaking as well, and would gain friction in straights.

I do lubricate my axles, using Labelle 108 oil. I know others use a lithium grease.

--Tony

[Railman66]

Hi - Can you describe or include an LDD file on how you built the ends of the cars? They would be a great starting point for my interurbans and I have never been able to get the smooth angle you have! Great job!

[Commander Wolf]

Hi - Can you describe or include an LDD file on how you built the ends of the cars? They would be a great starting point for my interurbans and I have never been able to get the smooth angle you have! Great job!

Lol, my LDD files are actually wrong because of stupid things LDD lets you do that you can't actually do... I can show some pics of the setup though:

The general gist is that the panels at the end are held on by clips in order to get an angle, and you basically try to adjust that angle by shifting the connecting point in and out.

[LEGO Train 12 Volts]

Clever building technique!

Top work commander wolf!

[Aaron]

Nice techniques! Good stuff!

Edited October 9, 2014 by Aaron

[UrbanErwin]

It looks very good, keep up the progress

[Commander Wolf]

... and barring some additional window stuff, they're done!

That box and those underside greebles that nobody will ever see.

These trucks hardly look any different on the outside, but it was literally a week's worth of iterations to get it to work around the rails and steel axles.

Centering the axle covers over the axles was the biggest pain. Jtlan originally suggested a SNOT solution with the rails facing down, but I couldn't make it work well. The covers pretty much can't be moved relative to each other, so that meant that the rails holding the axles both had to face the same direction to keep the axles a multiple of 1 stud apart. That means that the frames have to be moved instead, by 1LU horizontally using the SNOT thing in the middle. They also need to be shifted a multiple of 1/2LU vertically, because the steel axle sits between two plates, and this is done with the jumper plates.

They still aren't quite centered, but it's close enough that the ends of the axles slide freely in and out of the hole at the top of 1x1 brick with 4 studs on the sides.

Overally, the cars run pretty smoothly on the steel axles; with only a drop of lubrication the rolling resistance of the entire rake of 3 cars is less than that of the T1 and its tender.

All three cars together:

In a line:

In a curve!

Because of the tapered ends, the cars can actually be connected just 1 stud apart:

... and finally a full gallery once moderated:

If anyone is in Palo Alto tomorrow afternoon (saturday), come see myself and Jtlan at Saturday's BAYLUG meeting at the Museum of American Heritage!

[Redimus]

Very nice.

[zephyr1934]

They look great! Though if you are in the bay area, you should consider building a second set as the SP suburban cars.

[detjensrobert]

Now all you need is a BART train and youre all set!

Looking good, but would these windows (in brown) look any better?

EDIT: found better windows

Edited October 12, 2014 by detjensrobert

[UrbanErwin]

They look good, but perhaps some stickers to make the windows look a bit better?

[Pizzareno]

Yeah these are fine looking coaches. They don't look too bad with the plain windows but like a lot of others have suggested the brown frames would be good. Really nice work though. What loco will you use to pull these?

[Commander Wolf]

They look good, but perhaps some stickers to make the windows look a bit better?

Well, if you are talking about the side windows, the plan is to eventually replace them with the framed ones when I can get a bunch of 'em cheap, so I'll probably just leave them for now.

Yeah these are fine looking coaches. They don't look too bad with the plain windows but like a lot of others have suggested the brown frames would be good. Really nice work though. What loco will you use to pull these?

I made these to go with the PRR T1 in my sig, but now I'm also building an RF-16, which may end up in PRR colors as well. That brings me to:

Bonus content #1:

9v power car based on a NYC Express Car. Kind of a second-tier model because a lot of compromises to fit 9v motors, including having to use the coupler piece when Murrikan stock doesn't have buffers. Surprisingly complex interior for being just a box on wheels, mainly because of the 1LU ridge at the bottom. That being said, I like the prototype because I think it's generic enough to match a wide variety of American and Euro stock, passenger and freight.

Bonus content #2:

One of the three cars was supposed to be a combine/RPO (center). It didn't get built when it seemed like I might only be pulling two cars due to excessive friction. With the steel axles working wonders now, I might yet get to it.

Bonus content #3:

Incomplete CAD model of the stainless cars I originally wanted to build. They turned out to be too long and looked too strange on standard radius curves, though.

[King Aragorn]

Are you planning to recreate the whole train?

Nice details for the wheels!

[Commander Wolf]

Are you planning to recreate the whole train?

Nice details for the wheels!

Way to call the final update. Here is the entire train complete and in bricks:

... and some final T1 video, first some older clips with 10015s, and the P54s at

:

Edited October 19, 2014 by Commander Wolf

[Pizzareno]

Sweet

[zephyr1934]

Garden railroading at its finest!

[ALCO]

wow! Those are beautiful! I love to boggies! You mentioned the square blocks in the middle of the car... It appears the square blocks on the model cars are storage compartments. You might want to take a look at the 2x3x2 cabinets....Like the ones I used here. https://flic.kr/p/pMnvXG