Pat-Ard Posted February 24, 2014 Posted February 24, 2014 Hi folks, since a couple of weeks I regularly find "new" items at the auction house... Anyone who knows the Unimog thread maybe knows, that I made those MOCs. What do you think of all this? Here are two examples: http://www.ebay.de/itm/LEGO-Technic-Anhanger-mit-Warntafel-Unimog-U400-8110-Pneumatic-Technik-Neu-/161227373732?pt=DE_AllesfürdKind_Spielzeug_Lego&hash=item2589e67ca4 http://www.ebay.de/itm/LEGO-Technic-Seitenschneepflug-fur-Unimog-8110-U400-Neu-/161233142824?pt=DE_AllesfürdKind_Spielzeug_Lego&hash=item258a3e8428 Pat Quote
Saberwing40k Posted February 24, 2014 Posted February 24, 2014 That ain't fair, or right. Maybe you could contact ebay and ask them to take it down. Quote
Alasdair Ryan Posted February 24, 2014 Posted February 24, 2014 (edited) Well it is a shame he does not give you some credit for the ideas,but in fairness as long as he has not copied it exactly like yours then he can say he is not copying your design. Edited February 24, 2014 by Alasdair Ryan Quote
JGW3000 Posted February 24, 2014 Posted February 24, 2014 I'd post the building instructions for sale on the same auction site, in the same auctions and with similar title and keywords, so people can find them, and sell them for $0.50 with a link to rebrickable for parts, and maybe potential buyers will get smart Quote
Alasdair Ryan Posted February 24, 2014 Posted February 24, 2014 I'd post the building instructions for sale on the same auction site, in the same auctions and with similar title and keywords, so people can find them, and sell them for $0.50 with a link to rebrickable for parts, and maybe potential buyers will get smart That's a good idea,but could be quite time consuming to make instructions. Quote
DrJB Posted February 24, 2014 Posted February 24, 2014 (edited) I'd say let's hope the auction price stays VERY low ... and that'll teach him a lesson Or better yet ... ASK a question, typically such questions remain there for all to see ... Make sure you mention he copied ur designs, in the body of the question. Edited February 24, 2014 by DrJB Quote
Pat-Ard Posted February 24, 2014 Author Posted February 24, 2014 @JGW3000: I like the idea... Who's able to make real good instructions of my LDDs? I would contribute the LDDs, as I did them for everyone AND I would tell rebrickable to contribute the earnings to a children supporting fund... Quote
Paul Boratko Posted February 24, 2014 Posted February 24, 2014 If I were you, I wouldn't lose any sleep over it... Just be flattered that someone thinks your design was good enough to try make a profit off of... Unless you are a legal represenative of The Lego Company in some way, Ebay is most likely going to ignore you... There is really nothing you can do... You would be surprised how many people are selling other people's models on various auction sites and stores all over the world... You just have to expect that there are parasites out there who have zero talent and will leech off of what they can find... I'd post the building instructions for sale on the same auction site, in the same auctions and with similar title and keywords, so people can find them, and sell them for $0.50 with a link to rebrickable for parts, and maybe potential buyers will get smart You would think this is a good idea, but the casual fan doesn't want to spend several weeks locating parts to build something for which they can already buy it in one shot... Quote
stefan_betula_pendula Posted February 24, 2014 Posted February 24, 2014 Look at the other products this guy sells at the moment: http://www.ebay.de/sch/eisenbahn-nrw/m.html?ssPageName=STRK%3AMEFSXS%3AMESOI&_trksid=p2053788.m1543.l2654 I'm aware of 3 sellers at this auction house who frequently sell MOCs which are made by Eurobricks members. They also use the freely available LDD files, create building instructions and sell them. Some time ago I reported every mistrustful MOC (which I definitely know from this forum) to the support of the auction house, but it seems this doesn't have had any effect. I remember a auction with building instructions for 30 Unimog attachments. At least half of these attachments were MOCs by Eurobricks members. I also gave Cypr-21 notice of replicas of his MOCs (snow blower and spreader) by a comment on his website. He never gave me a reply and he also deleted my comment. So, it seems not everyone cares about that... The least that I would do is to write to the sellers to refrain from selling my MOCs and those from other builders. Quote
Paul Boratko Posted February 24, 2014 Posted February 24, 2014 several years ago I had it out with a guy from here in the states over a MOC he bought off of me and then started selling it along side me on Ebay... He eventually changed up the design a bit and threatened me that he had enough parts to flood Ebay with the MOC so neither of us would sell any... After things quieted down, he joined bricklink and was buying parts from my wife's store to resell on Ebay.. You can't make this stuff up... Quote
autorazr Posted February 24, 2014 Posted February 24, 2014 I kind of dont see a problem with what this guys doing, someone could potentially have designed the same exact thing as you at the same time. It is afterall a building toy, anyone can make anything technically. That, combined with the fact that lego actually owns all the individual elements making up an MOC, makes ownership a little complicated imo. I steal and modify others MOCs often, though I am not selling them for a profit, I certainly could and wouldnt feel very bad about it though, I mean, change one little thing and its your own creation really. Quote
Pat-Ard Posted February 24, 2014 Author Posted February 24, 2014 I don't have a problem with copying or modifying. But I don't like that some people earn money with it... Quote
LegoPanda Posted February 24, 2014 Posted February 24, 2014 Look at the other products this guy sells at the moment: http://www.ebay.de/s...788.m1543.l2654 I'm aware of 3 sellers at this auction house who frequently sell MOCs which are made by Eurobricks members. They also use the freely available LDD files, create building instructions and sell them. Some time ago I reported every mistrustful MOC (which I definitely know from this forum) to the support of the auction house, but it seems this doesn't have had any effect. I remember a auction with building instructions for 30 Unimog attachments. At least half of these attachments were MOCs by Eurobricks members. I also gave Cypr-21 notice of replicas of his MOCs (snow blower and spreader) by a comment on his website. He never gave me a reply and he also deleted my comment. So, it seems not everyone cares about that... The least that I would do is to write to the sellers to refrain from selling my MOCs and those from other builders. i know almost all of those from the forum, why do people do this, they should think on their own once, and not copy an other persons design without even giving credit Quote
piterx Posted February 24, 2014 Posted February 24, 2014 as i previously said in another similar thread Internet is made for sharing.... If you share, someone will take what you share to do whatever he wants with it... It's just a moral thing and a lot of people don't even know what "morality" means :P deal with it! humans are crap XD Quote
DrJB Posted February 24, 2014 Posted February 24, 2014 This is the same as chinese companies copying lego designs and selling them as their own ... just on a much smaller scale. You may dislike it (and we all do), but not sure anything can be done about it. Quote
Front Posted February 24, 2014 Posted February 24, 2014 A picture of a moc is protected, it's the owner's property, but a moc never will be. Quote
Pat-Ard Posted February 24, 2014 Author Posted February 24, 2014 yes, everybody is right about this. I just want to have your opinion... I am totally aware about the fact, that if I post a LDD some people would use it for their own - maybe shabby - purpose... It isn't my purpose to take any legal actions. I just want to talk about it.. Quote
autorazr Posted February 24, 2014 Posted February 24, 2014 yes, everybody is right about this. I just want to have your opinion... I am totally aware about the fact, that if I post a LDD some people would use it for their own - maybe shabby - purpose... It isn't my purpose to take any legal actions. I just want to talk about it.. no this is a cool discussion and I'd love to talk about it. As an MOCer I rarely see the physical creation as something I need to protect, sometimes I feel the need to protect a photo, but I'm not really a skilled photog, I'm just kind of documenting my MOCs so mostly I'm just flattered if someone reposts one of them. Do you watermark your images out of curiosity? Quote
dr_spock Posted February 24, 2014 Posted February 24, 2014 Can you copyright your work and hire a good legal team? Quote
JGW3000 Posted February 24, 2014 Posted February 24, 2014 If someone made one of my MOC's and tried to sell it, I'd be half-flattered and half-p'd-off. At a minimum, they should give credit where credit is due. Personally, I don't have the time to build my own MOCs, let alone time to build copies for sale. For me, the potential income stream, likely less than $100/month, doesn't even come close to making such an effort worthwhile for me - I'd rather spend time with family, etc... I have had similar issues with finding some of my (admittedly lower quality) photographic images finding their way onto unauthorized uses in various websites. If people ask, I always give permission, and usually for free if its academic, a nominal charge for commercial use. And asking is easy. Still, courtesy and credit is what is required and expected, even in an anonymous or not so anonymous internet. While the part designs are property of LEGO, the design of the device is property of the creator. Who gets the royalties from the sale is another issue and is admittedly complicated. Unless this character starts selling large numbers, it is not worth perusing but I'd still let them know, and also the auction site user community as well know, that some intellectual theft is going on here. Quote
Balrog Posted February 24, 2014 Posted February 24, 2014 (edited) I had once seen some MOCs from Designer Han being sold on eBay through some other person. I contacted Han about this and he just said, that he finds it interesting, but won't do anything about it. I wonder myself why people do this. Or why people buy already built MOCs. From a customer side of view, it would be more interesting to sell a set of parts for a MOC and point to the direction of the original instructions. Or if the instructions are only for sale, it might be possibly interesting to make some kind of reseller agreement between the original creator and the seller. In the end, there will be no fit solution for everyone and you need to decide if you are flattered about this or if you will try to take a legal course and give the seller a written warning and use the means of ebay for copyright flaws. Perhaps it might be also interesting, if one of the community ambassadors tries to reach out to eBay and see what they say about cases like this so some guidelines could be made for MOC creators that find their creations being sold by other people and isn't very fond about that happening. Just my 2 cents. edit: Oh, and of course the least this seller could have done would give credit. Just like with everything in creative commons or GPL/ASL whatever license. The original creator must be given credit. Edited February 24, 2014 by Balrog Quote
autorazr Posted February 24, 2014 Posted February 24, 2014 Credit would be nice, but its really just a nice, empty gesture. Assume your image ends up on 9gag or something, they give you credit and perhaps a link to your non-monetized website/blog. They are still the ones generating ad revenue on a site that has content generated for it for free (yours/our content). You may get increased traffic, but that does little for your wallet unless your webstie is a majorish media outlet or wildly popular blog that somehow generates money. That being said, I appreciate the credit for what it is, a courteous but mostly meaningless gesture. Quote
D3K Posted February 24, 2014 Posted February 24, 2014 I remember a guy selling his Technic collection on Norwegian auction site finn.no, and amongst all the official sets he was selling, there was also Barman's V8, Han's 10x4 truck, hauler, 8421XL, Crowkillers' Vampire GT and several others. But he stated the original builder, and even said that instructions would have to be bought (where they weren't free) from for example Crowkillers. IMO, selling other peoples MOCs like that, is just like selling official sets second hand. In other words, when you do it like that, giving credit where credit is due, and even telling people they need to pay the creator, that's 100 % OK in my eyes Quote
Lyichir Posted February 24, 2014 Posted February 24, 2014 When I first saw this topic title, my first thought was surprise at people selling copied MOCs on Etsy, of all places. After reading the first post it makes a great deal more sense. As for what you're dealing with... it's a shame, but there's not much you can do. Personally, I'd never spend money on fan-created instructions alone in the first place. Quote
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