Quality control slipping?

[1974]

You don't and you never will. You can make absolutely stellar work in China and you can make crap in Demakr (I know, I work ehre, haha), it ALL depends on what you're willinng to spend on the job

And TLG is not going to tell you that

Quality have been going down the drain ever since the switch to colourless pellets. Precision is 000,2mm for the brick dimensions but seem to be +/25% for colour variations

And this is ONLY due to cost

Bad, TLG bad

[JRBricks]

Well, sadly, for the first time ever, I had a set with missing pieces. Not just one, but 3! AND one piece that was the wrong plate size. I'm been buying Lego for many years and couldn't believe when I ordered the Haunted House that it was missing a few pieces. Oddly, all came from bag #5. Black slopes missing, and one bley plate for the roof top. Luckily I was able to make due with parts I had at home, but still frustrating...

[Sammael]

And this is ONLY due to cost

Actually, TLG claims that it's due to availability rather than cost. Due to the huge increase in volume, TLG needs a lot more pigment for the colorless pellets than any individual supplier can provide, so they have to buy pigment from multiple suppliers. While they do provide specs for the pigments, they cannot check for variations in color since each pigment supplier ships to a different factory. One might be 1% darker, the other 1% lighter (percentages used only as an example, I have no idea what the actual percentages are) but the difference when bricks from those batches are placed next to each other is now 2%, and that's too much.

Of course, the problem could likely be solved by going back to colored pellets, which would kill 90% of the current palette. Large palette or no quality issues - we can't have both, it seems.

I just read the side of the box: Contents made in Denmark, Hungry, Mexico, China, and the Czech Republic. I guess it takes five different countries to make one set now. How do I know which country made which parts?

The only parts you can tell for sure are Chinese - any part which contains printing on a non-flat surface and comes in a sealed bag is from China.

The rest are impossible to tell, since parts from all countries come to the same warehouse and are mixed up prior to packing. You may end up with all Danish parts, or a mix of Mexican and Czech parts. They pretty much list all countries on all boxes these days, as long as the factory in that particular country has a mold for a part used in the set.

[1974]

I'm quite sure Bayer can supply whatever TLG needs. It's a rather large company. But they don't want to pay for it, or they can get cheaper raw materials elsewhere, so yes it's about cost

TLG have major problems with quality now. Some people seem to buy sets where every cheese/slope/bow is cracking and this is probably due to having many different suppliers

I never saw this problem with older sets/parts when I was a child

I've since sold pretty much all my modern/post Bayer LEGO and only buy old sets/parts, again no problems

[Lyichir]

I'm quite sure Bayer can supply whatever TLG needs. It's a rather large company. But they don't want to pay for it, or they can get cheaper raw materials elsewhere, so yes it's about cost

TLG have major problems with quality now. Some people seem to buy sets where every cheese/slope/bow is cracking and this is probably due to having many different suppliers

I never saw this problem with older sets/parts when I was a child

I've since sold pretty much all my modern/post Bayer LEGO and only buy old sets/parts, again no problems

The cheese slope issue seems far more likely to be an engineering issue than a materials issue. Otherwise, we would be seeing more of those sorts of cracks in all parts—not just those with thin walls. And the reason you didn't see that issue in older parts is because those parts (cheese slopes, baby bows, and the like) didn't exist back then. Older parts had quality issues as well, including fragile designs as well as natural color variation and a greater tendency to fade or yellow when exposed to pollution or bright light. So it's much less an issue of "everything was better back then" and more of an issue where the old problems were fixed and new problems have accompanied new innovations.

So pick your poison. From my perspective, having been a Lego fan for much less time than yourself, I've still seen various quality issues arise and then later be addressed. So when I see a cracked cheese slope or a slightly discolored part, I shrug and think "this too shall pass". I'm much too fond of the amazing and useful designs of modern Lego to want to limit myself to the older stuff, especially when the latter is expensive, limited in quantity, and generally no less susceptible to defects.

Edited July 9, 2014 by Lyichir

[1974]

The cheese slope issue seems far more likely to be an engineering issue than a materials issue. Otherwise, we would be seeing more of those sorts of cracks in all parts—not just those with thin walls. And the reason you didn't see that issue in older parts is because those parts (cheese slopes, baby bows, and the like) didn't exist back then. Older parts had quality issues as well, including fragile designs as well as natural color variation and a greater tendency to fade or yellow when exposed to pollution or bright light. So it's much less an issue of "everything was better back then" and more of an issue where the old problems were fixed and new problems have accompanied new innovations.

So pick your poison. From my perspective, having been a Lego fan for much less time than yourself, I've still seen various quality issues arise and then later be addressed. So when I see a cracked cheese slope or a slightly discolored part, I shrug and think "this too shall pass". I'm much too fond of the amazing and useful designs of modern Lego to want to limit myself to the older stuff, especially when the latter is expensive, limited in quantity, and generally no less susceptible to defects.

No, it's not an engineering issue. If it was, you'd see cracked cheese slopes in just about every set until TLG redesigns that part (and to my knowledge they haven't)

If you search around the net you'll see that these specific problems, new parts cracking, is a rather new thing. I can find no reports from before 2006 which incidentally is also when TLG changed the way they use ABS

It's easy to find reports about cracking pieces, like a 1x6 plate, that have been in production for decades, so no, it's not limited to modern parts

It's true that there where fragile parts in 80's etc that was prone to breaking. But that indeed is an engineering problem and has been rectifed. Clips have been redesigned so many times that is a royal pain the behind if you have a BL shop

I find very little variation in colour in parts from era and I have bought many thousands, including loads of MISB sets. No problems at all

Yellowing again, is an entirely different issue

So let's get back to the current quality problems. There are plenty of pictures and discussion in this exellent thread, including another new problem, warped bricks :

http://www.eurobricks.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=30439&st=0

I've chosen NOT to deal with TLG's 'poison', So I only buy nice old parts. No cracking, warping, discolouration etc. Easy peasy

Lastly, one part did crack a lot when I was a kid ; minifig arms, but that was because we changed hands/swaped boides and that was/is a nono

[Sammael]

So I only buy nice old parts.

How old, exactly? Pre-2006, pre-2003?

Incidentally, anybody who went to the LFW QC seminar can tell you that the "changed the way they use ABS" is a pretty generalized statement. Firstly, TLG uses many different types of plastic, one of which is ABS. Secondly, they are now FORCED by the EU to change their plastic composition and pigment formulations every few years because the EU keeps expanding its list of compounds banned in childrens' toys. That's another reason for inconsistency and, possibly, for parts breakage.

[Faefrost]

Just to help slay one myth. There is often a difference between a business seeking to go cheap or cut costs. And a business innovating for efficiency. The change from pre colored pellets to the color injection system a few years back was not Lego seeking to reduce costs. At least not entirely and not on the front end. It was actually a massive capital expense. Like many production innovations it has some trade offs. Many many benefits, and a few negatives to weight against.

Yes with the new dye injection system color consistency between batches is not quite the 100% it used to be. There may be a hair more variation, most typically under really bright or specific lighting conditions. Yes this will bother some classic AFOLs who demand 100% perfect color matching. But for the rest of us, well guess what, the new system has had a huge impact on us, in a good way.

By streamlining the supply chain and giving themselves direct color control on the factory floor it means that color changes are much much easier in production. No longer do they have to fully redo a factory line to change color. No longer are their color options limited to the finite storage capacity of what colored pellets they have on hand. This means they can easily run smaller batches of more colors as needed. Look at classic sets and themes. Especially space. Notice how fairly rigid color pallets were within the theme? Part colors were produced in bulk and then used across the theme. Now contrast that with some modern themes. Look at Galaxy Squad or Chima. Notice how they no longer have the same color limitations. Color is used for identification, art direction and story, but you can have a much broader application. Instead of classic good = blue! grey trans yellow! bad = black! yellow trans hello or similar! each character or clan or faction can now be carrying their own distinct color pallet within the same theme! during the same production and release cycle!

The new system also means that Lego does not need to stockpile parts as deep as they used to. They can now move to a more as needed production model. This actually benefits us in a number of ways. It keeps costs to us down, broadens the number and types of sets we see yearly. It allows stuff we never would have dreamed of in 1987. It allows more colors in a given set. This is all a good thing for us.

A little bit of the margin of color quality was decreased in order to permit a much more flexible system with strong benefits for everyone from Legos owners to the kids happily playing with the bricks, but no Quality Must be slipping, because someone can see a minuscule difference between 2 yellow bricks under a bright light. It's a trade off. It's a deliberate trade off to our benefit. It's just like photography. Classic Kodak Kodachrome has a much better color saturation then any digital camera or image. Yet digital still overtook and displaced it because the overall benefits to the photographer were so much better than that one single data point or observer impression.

/e wanders off to go beat his head against the wall some more

[BrickBuilder3213]

My Tremor Track Infiltration set came with a light-grey antenna rather than a black antenna, a spare sticker sheet and a large scratch on Tremor's armour.

[antp]

The rest are impossible to tell, since parts from all countries come to the same warehouse and are mixed up prior to packing. You may end up with all Danish parts, or a mix of Mexican and Czech parts. They pretty much list all countries on all boxes these days, as long as the factory in that particular country has a mold for a part used in the set.

I thought that the Mexico factory was just for North-America market. Do they really transfer all the parts across the ocean just to store all in one warehouse?

[Superkalle]

Wise thoughts here. I particularly agree with what 1974 and Faefrost wrote.

As for cracking, there are are few factors that influence this, and I can only conclude what's already been said, and perhaps add a few more:

1) Plastic quality (as mentioned)

2) Environmental issues, for new parts mostly ESC and temperature.

3) Part design. Note that thick walls can crack more easily in some cases. A thin wall will for example bend easier.The stud is more or less in-compressible, so material in the hole/anti-stud part must expand a certain distance, and if the walls are then thicker they will experience much higher surface tension.

4) How bricks are assembled (illegal design and all that - not an issue here, but mentioning it).

5) Molding procedure

For those interested, here is some more info on ABS brittleness

And yes, the bricks get re-designed and updated all the time. There are many small things added through the years that make molding less sensitive to need for accuracy (which is very, very expensive to uphold), and at the same time even increases functionlity - like the ridges on the inside of 3.2 mm holes. Knowledge in molding is increasing every year, even within a skilled company like LEGO. So I can understand that TLG changes brick design regularly (even though I agree it's a pain in the but for brick stores etc).

Having said that though, sometimes I've seen that a brick that gets redesigned is worse then it's predecessor. For example the 76768 BOW 1x5x4. Another is the 15457 which was quickly withdrawn from the market due to functional inefficiencies. But in this cases I guess it may be more a problem of LEGO growing so fast so they can't acquire skilled engineers to Billund or that the organisation and quality processes can't keep up.

I thought that the Mexico factory was just for North-America market. Do they really transfer all the parts across the ocean just to store all in one warehouse?

Parts that are particularly hard to inject, like co-injection (multiple colors) etc are done in Billund and then shipped out.

[antp]

Yes, I know that some stuff is made ony in Denmark, but I was asking for the other way round: stuff made in Mexico isn't shipped to Europe to be mixed with what is made in Eastern Europe.

[Faefrost]

Yes, I know that some stuff is made ony in Denmark, but I was asking for the other way round: stuff made in Mexico isn't shipped to Europe to be mixed with what is made in Eastern Europe.

I'm not sure that there is a completely clear cut answer to that. Remember Lego factories may do one of or both parts of two core things. They produce parts. and they produce sets. The Mexico factory produces sets exclusively for the North American market. (which makes sense that market uses unique packaging.) But part production may not be as cut and dry. I think in most cases TLG prefers to use the more "local to need" factories. It's much cheaper to ship the needed mold to Mexico and run off a batch of parts there, than it is to ship containers of parts. But it is likely not a strict rule, and due to limited molds and simple rules of inventory management I am sure they find some situations where shipping a load of bricks from factory A to factory B in order to meet schedules is the faster cheaper and more efficient option. Especially the farther you go from basic bricks. Although I suspect that the Mexico factory is overall more of a net recipient of bricks from elsewhere than it is a producer of bricks for other locations.

[Duq]

As Ambassador I have to tell you one thing: call customer service. Every missing piece, every substandard piece, any issue with any set: report it to customer service. We can report issues through the Ambassador forum but reporting through customer service is better because they run all sorts of reporting and statistics on what comes in through CS.

To improve the quality of those reports, if you can, look for the production code on the box; every box has a code stamped in it that will tell Lego where and when it was produced.

When you're reporting a piece look for the mold-code. You may need a magnifying glass to find it. This code again will help Lego find and resolve issues.

This page explains the various numbers you can find on your Lego pieces.

In my personal opinion I think that given the profits they've made in recent years they can put a bit more money into quality, in particular 3 areas: cracking elements, inconsistent colours and wrinkled instructions and stickers. The odd missing piece is a little annoying but no more than that and easily fixed. I think I may have had one or two missing pieces in hundreds of sets.

[geeklady]

My son loves Lego above all other toys. He has received at least 100 sets (of varying sizes) from family and friends over the last 4 years. We had NEVER received a new set with missing pieces out of the box until the last two months. He just celebrated his birthday and received 8 (boxed) sets and 6 Mixel bags. Two of the "Lego Movie" sets (70814, 70808) and two Mixel bags (41513, 41510) were all missing a piece, straight out of the package. The missing pieces in the Mixels were vital parts and our "build" had to be halted while we wait for the parts to be shipped. I appreciate the online request they provide for missing pieces, but I have to wonder what has happened to Lego quality control. My husband I both loved Legos when we were children and we have always considered Lego as having a good reputation and worth the price. In light of recent events, our good opinion is starting to slip.

[alois]

Sorry to bump an old topic, but I thought this was the most appropriate topic to post this picture of a brand new orange tile, fresh from its sealed bag :

The left one is ok, of course, for comparison. A very interesting deformation.

[ekobor]

I've not yet had anything missing, or horribly mangled, but almost all my headlight bricks are cracked (I think one out out eight isn't), a good chunk of my 1x1 and 1x2 plates and a bunch of my cheeseslopes... All from new. It's very annoying, and I feel like a bother reporting them all. But I want my pieces to be the strongest possible so they last. That's why I pay the premium to use Lego, instead of clones.

[9v system]

I got a series 13 cyclops, brand new and the print can Come off, even just by touching it. Now that is bad quality

[SweetiePie88]

Do they bother doing proper tests on new molds for the Made in china stuff anymore? Recently got some simpsons wave 2 figures. had to email about 2 replacements since the frink head and moleman heads were not clutching right. I got in 2 random bags and got a willie and another frink. that frinks head is to loose too.

@ post 41

Squashed part. its a very rare find in ones sets but something that people love to find.

Edited June 22, 2015 by SweetiePie88