New Earth-Like Planet Discovered in the Habitable Zone

[oo7]

Black holes are less likely to have something on the other side, seeing as how all forms of matter are sucked in to them and 'crushed.' Thing is though, matter can't be destroyed, so... *wacko*

But they can be compacted and Spaghettified. (Yes, that is the proper terminology! :-P )

And if you think that's strange think about this - Matter cannot be destroyed, only dispersed either chemically or physically. Matter cannot be generated, only obtained from other material either chemically or physically. So therefore there is a constant amount of matter and energy throughout the universe, with an exact measurement. But as a wise man once said, the universe is infinite. If the universe is infinite, there must be infinite matter. Infinite energy. Material in the universe; matter/energy is measured, but immeasurable. Infinite but finite. Both at the same time. How's that for a paradox? X-D

Also keep in mind that infinity does have three or so rough measurements as shown in the continuum hypothesis, that theoretically make perfect sense, but physically makes none whatsoever. ;-)

[Starwars4J]

But as a wise man once said, the universe is infinite. If the universe is infinite, there must be infinite matter. Infinite energy.

Well actually nobody said that :-P Sure the Universe may be infinite, but nobody said the matter inside is infinite! In fact it can't be infinite if it once fit into something the size of a pin tip, since no matter how compact you make something, infinite matter will take up infinite volume! Even with my theory of overlapping prime particles that can have infinite density would need infinite volume for an infinite amount. That's why people throw around "infinite" too much, without stopping to consider the gravity of it (haha pun 8-| ).

Material in the universe; matter/energy is measured, but immeasurable. Infinite but finite. Both at the same time. How's that for a paradox? X-D

Well, actually the exact amount (mass) of all the matter in the universe has been calculated. Even the amount of dark matter and dark energy, the latter of which makes up the majority of the universe, has been calculated. Space is infinite. Time is infinite. Matter is finite :-)

Also keep in mind that infinity does have three or so rough measurements as shown in the continuum hypothesis, that theoretically make perfect sense, but physically makes none whatsoever. ;-)

Could you explain what you mean by infinity has a measurement? And by the hypothesis you mentioned, do you mean the multiverse theory, the cycling of big bang and big crunch, or the epkyrotic theory?

[oo7]

Well actually nobody said that :-P

Maybe not that exactly, but I'm sure it's at least something along those lines.

Sure the Universe may be infinite, but nobody said the matter inside is infinite! In fact it can't be infinite if it once fit into something the size of a pin tip, since no matter how compact you make something, infinite matter will take up infinite volume! Even with my theory of overlapping prime particles that can have infinite density would need infinite volume for an infinite amount. That's why people throw around "infinite" too much, without stopping to consider the gravity of it (haha pun 8-| ).

You see? Way to many paradoxes to get any sense out of it. And with infinite density - is that both negative and positive infinite density at the same time?

Well, actually the exact amount (mass) of all the matter in the universe has been calculated. Even the amount of dark matter and dark energy, the latter of which makes up the majority of the universe, has been calculated. Space is infinite. Time is infinite. Matter is finite :-)

1. Matter is finite but I believe there will always be energy as long as there is space in which case matter would then be infinite?

2. Without matter space would not exist. :-P (Think about it)

3. I'd think we would need to prove the basic existence of dark matter and find out what it's made of in the first place before we 'calculate' it. And what are we calculating anyways? And who is this 'we' anyways?? Are 'we' measuring mass? All Matter having mass is, frankly, just myth as the theory presents multiple technical problems in physics......You really think that's been calculated? I'd love to see the number.

Could you explain what you mean by infinity has a measurement? And by the hypothesis you mentioned, do you mean the multiverse theory, the cycling of big bang and big crunch, or the epkyrotic theory?

Ugh, that multiverse theory can get real ugly, but that's not at all what I'm referring to. The Big crunch also reminds me of an interesting poser; We know the universe expands from observing Doppler shifts, but how does something already infinite expand, and if there is finite mass as you say is the mass becoming less dense or is more antimatter being generated.......somewhere......anyway that's not it either, I was talking about something much more math oriented. :-P I'm talking about a branch of set theory, aleph numbers (Named after the Hebrew Alphabet ;-) ). Various Infinite sets can have different cardinalities, if you know what I mean.

Think of it this way - The numbers spanning from .1 to .2 are infinite. The numbers spanning from -9999 to 9999 are also infinite. Although the exact amount of numbers from -9999 to 9999 cannot be measured, it's just bound to be higher. It doesn't make much sense, but since the amount is, like, nonupled over and over, it just has to be bigger. X-D But yet it's infinite, so it's not. ;-) but it is....

[Starwars4J]

You see? Way to many paradoxes to get any sense out of it. And with infinite density - is that both negative and positive infinite density at the same time?

Negative density refers primarily to metamaterials, and while everything is in a stage of how well it's known, that is a really grey area. There are no paradoxes in there. You can have infinite space without infinite mass, why couldn't you? I just don't see what contradicts :-P

1. Matter is finite but I believe there will always be energy as long as there is space in which case matter would then be infinite?

But matter and energy are the same thing...

2. Without matter space would not exist. :-P (Think about it)

Not true at all. Saying that would be saying you can never have a vacuum, which we know isn't true. And I'm not talking about space, which isn't truly a vacuum, or the quantum particles that pop in and out of existence, it's entirely possible to have a true vacuum, which wouldn't be possible as no matter = no space according to you.

3. I'd think we would need to prove the basic existence of dark matter and find out what it's made of in the first place before we 'calculate' it.

Well besides that we have been able to calculate it anyway, we have a pretty good idea what both dark matter and dark energy are :-P I took a class in this stuff freshman year

And what are we calculating anyways? And who is this 'we' anyways??

Hm...the astronomic community? :-D

Are 'we' measuring mass? All Matter having mass is, frankly, just myth as the theory presents multiple technical problems in physics......

I'm afraid you've lost me there. Mass isn't myth. It CLEARLY isn't myth...unless you're saying that you, yourself, are just a myth. And that would be getting into philosophy, not astronomy X-D Could you provice some links to articles that talk about where mass presents a problem in physics?

You really think that's been calculated? I'd love to see the number.

If you really want I can find one...

Ugh, that multiverse theory can get real ugly, but that's not at all what I'm referring to. The Big crunch also reminds me of an interesting poser; We know the universe expands from observing Doppler shifts, but how does something already infinite expand

Let me put it another way. Space CAN be infinite. The universe as we know it has a finite size, though it is expanding. Whether or not we have the critical mass is still a matter of debate (as currently it's been calculated to be EXACTLY the critical mass which is crazy when you think about it). And that's not even mentioning that the Universe as we know it is just one particular "bubble" with our own set of physical laws. Other bubbles have other ones.

and if there is finite mass as you say is the mass becoming less dense or is more antimatter being generated.......somewhere......

Er? Mass doesn't become more or less dense, density is a function of mass per area. And antimatter has nothing to do with anything. Antimatter is just normal matter with a reverse charge. It's really not all that mysterious, it's overall density in the universe is exceedingly low as our set of molecules (protons, neurtons, and electrons) outnumber by a huge margin their anti-selves. And the moment they're created they're usually annihelated when they run into their couterparts.

Think of it this way - The numbers spanning from .1 to .2 are infinite. The numbers spanning from -9999 to 9999 are also infinite. Although the exact amount of numbers from -9999 to 9999 cannot be measured, it's just bound to be higher. It doesn't make much sense, but since the amount is, like, nonupled over and over, it just has to be bigger. X-D But yet it's infinite, so it's not. ;-) but it is....

Actually, as far as I'm aware that theory is as defunct as the string theory. Infinite is infinite. The spectrum of numbers from -1 to 1 is the same as -100 to 100, infinite. Think of it this way: infinity-1 is just as far away from 0 as infinity is.

[oo7]

Negative density refers primarily to metamaterials, and while everything is in a stage of how well it's known, that is a really grey area. There are no paradoxes in there. You can have infinite space without infinite mass, why couldn't you? I just don't see what contradicts :-P

But matter and energy are the same thing...

So beyond the amount of matter near our galaxy and untold amounts of others there is empty space.....so as the universe expands the matter either becomes less dense or the space increases......hmmm.......

Not true at all. Saying that would be saying you can never have a vacuum, which we know isn't true. And I'm not talking about space, which isn't truly a vacuum, or the quantum particles that pop in and out of existence, it's entirely possible to have a true vacuum, which wouldn't be possible as no matter = no space according to you.

If there was no matter there would nothing to compare it to; being space. If everything was space there would be no matter to determine its boundaries. It's more philosophical than scientific. ;-)

Well besides that we have been able to calculate it anyway, we have a pretty good idea what both dark matter and dark energy are :-P I took a class in this stuff freshman year

If it doesn't exist calculating it's mass would be quite useless.

I'm afraid you've lost me there. Mass isn't myth. It CLEARLY isn't myth...unless you're saying that you, yourself, are just a myth. And that would be getting into philosophy, not astronomy X-D Could you provice some links to articles that talk about where mass presents a problem in physics?

The statement that ALL matter has mass and occupies space is an unproven 'myth'. Matter is made atoms, which are made of protons, neutrons, and electrons. Protons and neutrons are made of quarks and leptons. According to some models quarks and leptons, the fundamental particles of matter, are dimensionless points. Therfore, theoretically, they cannot occupy space. 8-|

The universe as we know it has a finite size, though it is expanding.

But we know the universe is infinite! :-P

Er? Mass doesn't become more or less dense, density is a function of mass per area.

Yes, I meant that the universe would become less dense and the mass would spread out or the space would increase.....which doesn't seem correct.....but something has to be generated to make the universe 'larger' otherwise. Which still doesn't make sense as it's already infinite. :'-(

Actually, as far as I'm aware that theory is as defunct as the string theory. Infinite is infinite. The spectrum of numbers from -1 to 1 is the same as -100 to 100, infinite. Think of it this way: infinity-1 is just as far away from 0 as infinity is.

I don't think so.....check out these:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Continuum_hypothesis

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aleph_number

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Beth_number

I also know that 0.9999... is exactly equal to 1, but I'm not sure where or if that ties in.

[Starwars4J]

So beyond the amount of matter near our galaxy and untold amounts of others there is empty space.....so as the universe expands the matter either becomes less dense or the space increases......hmmm.......

Exactly! Now you have it! The two postulated futures are that either there is not enough gravity to keep everything together, and the universe expands forever, as matter spreads out thinner and thinner in the Universe. As this happens, the chance for stars to form becomes less and less likely, and eventually everything dies. The Universe becomes a cold void, with matter spread infinitely thin.

If there was no matter there would nothing to compare it to; being space. If everything was space there would be no matter to determine its boundaries. It's more philosophical than scientific. ;-)

Well that depends on how you define space. I define space as where you can move matter, or rather, where matter can move in. If you only account for space as that being what matter exists in, then how do you define a true void? Is it dimensionless? That can't be.

If it doesn't exist calculating it's mass would be quite useless.

But it does exist...

The statement that ALL matter has mass and occupies space is an unproven 'myth'. Matter is made atoms, which are made of protons, neutrons, and electrons. Protons and neutrons are made of quarks and leptons. According to some models quarks and leptons, the fundamental particles of matter, are dimensionless points. Therfore, theoretically, they cannot occupy space. 8-|

This is more a matter (no pun intended) of common sense. Do you have mass? I think so! The quarks and leptons (not to mention the myriad of other subatomic particles...tacyons anyone?) are far more unproven. And electrons? We don't even know what electrons are! That's something they teach you in uni astronomy courses, we don't know what the hell we're talking about :-P Electrons are just modeled as regions of negative charge density, because that's what we can understand and it's simplest to work with. That isn't what it actually is though. What is it, then? I dunno, check back in a hundred years, maybe we'll know then ;-)

But we know the universe is infinite! :-P

Einstein has been wrong before :-P

Yes, I meant that the universe would become less dense and the mass would spread out or the space would increase.....which doesn't seem correct.....but something has to be generated to make the universe 'larger' otherwise. Which still doesn't make sense as it's already infinite. :'-(

You're starting to see the flaw in your "the universe is infinite and so is matter" theory then. The universe has infinite capacity to expand, but as it does the matter becomes more thinly spread! There's a certain mass at which either the universe would continue to spread forever, or collapse back in on itself in the "Big Crunch". Currently it's measured that, taking everything into account, the Universe is at that critical mass, so at some point trillions of years from now, the Big Crunch will occur! One of the things i learned is that Scientists are some of the most Religious people you'll ever find, because they, themselves find it almost impossible to believe things are so precise and work out so neatly...that it could have happened on its own. But the numbers and data are there, and again, I can try to find it if you want.

I don't think so.....check out these:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Continuum_hypothesis

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aleph_number

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Beth_number

Rule 1 of academic discussions: Never use wiki as a reference. The only valid places are links to official Journal Articles. I can log onto wiki right now and make it so that 0=-7 :-D

I also know that 0.9999... is exactly equal to 1, but I'm not sure where or if that ties in.

There's actually a proof for that, but it's ludicrous. The fact is that we're just humans. We're flawed. Every equation we have is flawed. E != m(c^2), it's just a very very very very very very good approximation. Our math systems are flawed. There are even holes in basic arithmatic, since you can PROVE 0.99~=1, but clearly it is 0.0~1 less than 1. That's how messed up the system is.

[Brainbox]

The universe has infinite capacity to expand, but as it does the matter becomes more thinly spread! There's a certain mass at which either the universe would continue to spread forever, or collapse back in on itself in the "Big Crunch". Currently it's measured that, taking everything into account, the Universe is at that critical mass, so at some point trillions of years from now, the Big Crunch will occur!

Not necessarily. There are some scientists who believe that either a) the universe will simply continue to expand with infinite potential, or b)the universe isn't expanding at all.

Besides, if there is a Big Crunch, a new universe will probably be born and this debate can continue all over again on Eurobricks Mk 2... ;-)

[Hobbes]

and this debate can continue all over again on Eurobricks Mk 2... ;-)

Pfff, we're already at version 2.1.4 :-P

[Brainbox]

Pfff, we're already at version 2.1.4 :-P

Aah, whatever. I could've put Mk 3,000, 038.4 or something, but the joke wouldn't have been quite the same. ;-)

EDIT: Just read about some images NASA's New HOrizons spacecraft picked up of Jupiter. Including some new shots of the Red Spot and some of the moons. My God, they look a bit beautiful.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/in_pictures/6614557.stm