Question about part manufacture

[Wodanis]

Does anyone know if customer service deals with part numbers on Mini-figure legs or torsos and where they originate from? I was going to write their customer service to enquire but thought perhaps someone here may know the answer.

[Gorelaxx]

I've bought torso and legs assemblies from customer services before. The numbers they use can be found on brickset, and also in the service part of lego.com.

They only do assemblies though, they don't do arms, torsos, hands, hips or individual legs, they have to be current mini figure parts, generally, and they won't sell you licenced parts either.

Hope that helps.

[jodawill]

I've bought torso and legs assemblies from customer services before. The numbers they use can be found on brickset, and also in the service part of lego.com.

They only do assemblies though, they don't do arms, torsos, hands, hips or individual legs, they have to be current mini figure parts, generally, and they won't sell you licenced parts either.

Hope that helps.

I think he's asking whether the numbers on the parts can tell TLG at which plant the piece was manufactured.

[Faefrost]

I think he's asking whether the numbers on the parts can tell TLG at which plant the piece was manufactured.

I'm doubtful that the customer service reps would be able to determine country or factory of origin from the plastic markings. That sort of thing is generally viewed as internal business information. The best a CS rep could probably tell you is which set it came from (if its reasonably current) and if a replacement part is available.

[Gorelaxx]

I think he's asking whether the numbers on the parts can tell TLG at which plant the piece was manufactured.

Oh yeah, it was late when i read the question.

I agree with Faefrost, in that they know where they made the parts but they're not going to let CS tell you, but it's worth asking. If you don't ask you don't get.

[Paul B Technic]

Why do you want to know this for?

[Wodanis]

I think he's asking whether the numbers on the parts can tell TLG at which plant the piece was manufactured.

That is correct jodawill.

I'm doubtful that the customer service reps would be able to determine country or factory of origin from the plastic markings. That sort of thing is generally viewed as internal business information. The best a CS rep could probably tell you is which set it came from (if its reasonably current) and if a replacement part is available.

Why do you want to know this for?

Hmm. I was hoping id be able to confirm if some of the parts were indeed made in China. More specifically if they could confirm it I would ask for replacements. I have about 20 or so Mini-figure legs and 5 torsos that look to be made from the Chinese 3rd party manufacturer. They never did feel right nor fit properly. Turns out the two packs of city mini-figures also appear to be made there as well in terms of the bodies and legs. The don't have the © Lego on the base of the foot just a batch number on the hip joint. The torsos lack the black sensor indicator on their necks as well.

http://www.brickset.com/detail/?Set=850617-1

http://www.brickset.com/detail/?Set=850618-1 - only the fire chief's torso and legs the rest made in Denmark.

http://www.brickset.com/detail/?Set=853378-1 - air tanks are discoloured

[dr_spock]

Oh yeah, it was late when i read the question.

I agree with Faefrost, in that they know where they made the parts but they're not going to let CS tell you, but it's worth asking. If you don't ask you don't get.

Would their CS folks even have access to that information? I guess they can pass on the question to higher ups.

[Faefrost]

That is correct jodawill.

Hmm. I was hoping id be able to confirm if some of the parts were indeed made in China. More specifically if they could confirm it I would ask for replacements. I have about 20 or so Mini-figure legs and 5 torsos that look to be made from the Chinese 3rd party manufacturer. They never did feel right nor fit properly. Turns out the two packs of city mini-figures also appear to be made there as well in terms of the bodies and legs. The don't have the © Lego on the base of the foot just a batch number on the hip joint. The torsos lack the black sensor indicator on their necks as well.

http://www.brickset....l/?Set=850617-1

http://www.brickset....l/?Set=850618-1 - only the fire chief's torso and legs the rest made in Denmark.

http://www.brickset....l/?Set=853378-1 - air tanks are discoloured

It's not that they don't want CS to tell anybody thing s like that. It's just that that is not the type of information that anyone would ever put anywhere that CS would have cause to look at it. Production Schedules. Production Locations. Specific Factory Information is all stuff that is typically internal only, and is not generally put where outward facing personnel or departments would ever see it. Just for basic business security reasons.

And what exactly would they replace the parts with? They do not differentiate between chinese factory made parts and others. They simply know what sets were produced where. Factory of origin is not typically viewed as a product defect or a an issue for CS ressolution in and of itself.

[Wodanis]

My issue with the parts is that they are not of the same quality as pieces made in Denmark. I suspect I will have to contact CS and see if it needs to go higher. Understandably the initial CS reps will not know such details in any case.

Edited January 13, 2014 by Wodanis

[Paul B Technic]

That is correct jodawill.

Hmm. I was hoping id be able to confirm if some of the parts were indeed made in China. More specifically if they could confirm it I would ask for replacements. I have about 20 or so Mini-figure legs and 5 torsos that look to be made from the Chinese 3rd party manufacturer. They never did feel right nor fit properly. Turns out the two packs of city mini-figures also appear to be made there as well in terms of the bodies and legs. The don't have the © Lego on the base of the foot just a batch number on the hip joint. The torsos lack the black sensor indicator on their necks as well.

http://www.brickset....l/?Set=850617-1

http://www.brickset....l/?Set=850618-1 - only the fire chief's torso and legs the rest made in Denmark.

http://www.brickset....l/?Set=853378-1 - air tanks are discoloured

In that case I think you are going to be out of luck, the fact the parts were made at a given location is not going to be a reason for them to replace them :(

[AndyC]

My issue with the parts is that they are not of the same quality as pieces made in Denmark. I suspect I will have to contact CS and see if it needs to go higher. Understandably the initial CS reps will not know such details in any case.

How do you know they are "not of the same quality as pieces made in Denmark" when you've no idea where any part is made? What would you expect to happen if they told you those parts had been made in Denmark?

[Wodanis]

How do you know they are "not of the same quality as pieces made in Denmark" when you've no idea where any part is made? What would you expect to happen if they told you those parts had been made in Denmark?

The identification markings indicate origin, hence my original question. The parts that are made directly from Denmark possess the © lego logo on their arms and the base of the foot. I've confirmed this through the sets I've purchased and the mini-figures i have directly ordered from the factory in Denmark. Not to mention the quality when you touch and see them.

In that case I think you are going to be out of luck, the fact the parts were made at a given location is not going to be a reason for them to replace them :(

True but my issue is with the quality of the parts which should be a reason. If I have to I will just order the parts.

Edited January 14, 2014 by Wodanis

[Lyichir]

The identification markings indicate origin, hence my original question. The parts that are made directly from Denmark possess the © lego logo on their arms and the base of the foot. I've confirmed this through the sets I've purchased and the mini-figures i have directly ordered from the factory in Denmark. Not to mention the quality when you touch and see them.

There's a significant problem with that mode of identification. The different part designs are due to the Chinese facility simply using newer molds, so it's not unlikely that the newer molds will be implemented in the other factories as well. I don't know when that would happen; perhaps in the near future and perhaps a long time from now. As a short-term means of identification, it holds up, but in the long term, there's no telling.

Not that it matters to me. What small quality issues I saw in some of my earliest Chinese-produced figs have decreased in the later ones, and I'm sure that they'll continue to do so. And I'm not going to pass on figs I want just because of their point of origin.

[AndyC]

There's a significant problem with that mode of identification. The different part designs are due to the Chinese facility simply using newer molds, so it's not unlikely that the newer molds will be implemented in the other factories as well. I don't know when that would happen; perhaps in the near future and perhaps a long time from now. As a short-term means of identification, it holds up, but in the long term, there's no telling.

Not to mention that "ordering from the factory in Denmark" is absolutely no guarantee that the order is fulfilled using only parts produced in Denmark. There's just as much chance they'll send on parts that had originally been produced in China. And using "quality" as a metric for determining they came from China is obviously flawed, because it's entirely based on the assumption that the point of origin for flawed parts has to be China.

[Wodanis]

Not to mention that "ordering from the factory in Denmark" is absolutely no guarantee that the order is fulfilled using only parts produced in Denmark. There's just as much chance they'll send on parts that had originally been produced in China. And using "quality" as a metric for determining they came from China is obviously flawed, because it's entirely based on the assumption that the point of origin for flawed parts has to be China.

Your correct to say AndyC "that "ordering from the factory in Denmark" is absolutely no guarantee that the order is fulfilled using only parts produced in Denmark." If I could find out specifically where the machine is based for the appropriate serial number on the leg that would prove the point of origin. The reasoning is Lego does not have a factory in China (until 2017) and they use a third party substitute who is contracted on behalf of Lego to produce parts and various product lines. They were using them because they could not keep pace with the demand. The CMF line and 8% of parts from other lines like Chima and Friends are produced there.

Some quality issues and differences are explained in this other thread: LEGO parts made of Chinese plastic? I started this one to see if anyone would know whether CS would actually have knowledge of point of origin and or be able to replace the lesser quality parts. I have never seen any quality issues from any of their other plants except for the usual wear and tear from play or age. I've purchased many sets In North America and in the UK.

[Faefrost]

Your correct to say AndyC "that "ordering from the factory in Denmark" is absolutely no guarantee that the order is fulfilled using only parts produced in Denmark." If I could find out specifically where the machine is based for the appropriate serial number on the leg that would prove the point of origin. The reasoning is Lego does not have a factory in China (until 2017) and they use a third party substitute who is contracted on behalf of Lego to produce parts and various product lines. They were using them because they could not keep pace with the demand. The CMF line and 8% of parts from other lines like Chima and Friends are produced there.

Some quality issues and differences are explained in this other thread: LEGO parts made of Chinese plastic? I started this one to see if anyone would know whether CS would actually have knowledge of point of origin and or be able to replace the lesser quality parts. I have never seen any quality issues from any of their other plants except for the usual wear and tear from play or age. I've purchased many sets In North America and in the UK.

Lego moves molds around. They aren't tied to any specific factory and different molds are constantly in transition. They match up molds with production capability with production needs. So tooling that is in China this year may be in Mexico next. And even though the parts are being made in a Chinese factory they still use 100% Lego owned molds and tooling.

The only actual difference between the Chinese factory and the others is Chinese import laws do not allow them to bring the same raw plastic in. They have to source it locally, which probably accounts for the slightly different texture. That is less an issue of "quality" as it is one of "difference" which we often mistakenly perceive as a change in quality. Because Lego can not single source their plastic like they have done for all of their other factories, we notice a difference. But their really is no concrete evidence of a difference in plastic quality. The Chinese stuff appears to wear and handle the same. And behave the same under the same stresses. We can just notice that it does have a marginally different texture than the more traditionally sourced plastic.

And once again different does not = CS actionable defect.

[Wodanis]

Lego moves molds around. They aren't tied to any specific factory and different molds are constantly in transition. They match up molds with production capability with production needs. So tooling that is in China this year may be in Mexico next. And even though the parts are being made in a Chinese factory they still use 100% Lego owned molds and tooling.

The only actual difference between the Chinese factory and the others is Chinese import laws do not allow them to bring the same raw plastic in. They have to source it locally, which probably accounts for the slightly different texture. That is less an issue of "quality" as it is one of "difference" which we often mistakenly perceive as a change in quality. Because Lego can not single source their plastic like they have done for all of their other factories, we notice a difference. But their really is no concrete evidence of a difference in plastic quality. The Chinese stuff appears to wear and handle the same. And behave the same under the same stresses. We can just notice that it does have a marginally different texture than the more traditionally sourced plastic.

And once again different does not = CS actionable defect.

I knew about the raw plastic issue but I had not heard before that they move the molds around. I'm curious where did you learn of this Faefrost? Was it in the forums? Not that I doubt what you say.

[Faefrost]

I knew about the raw plastic issue but I had not heard before that they move the molds around. I'm curious where did you learn of this Faefrost? Was it in the forums? Not that I doubt what you say.

They have talked about it in a few places. Mostly interviews, such as the tv documentary that shows how the factory works. I think it has also been mentioned in some of the magazine articles? Possibly either Brickjournal or Hispabrick? I know I have read about it in more than one place, and not simply as forum posts. Although it does show up occasionally in posts from Lego designers when they talk about part use and availability. I think they have occasionally explained that sometimes the mold for the part they had wanted had been moved to another factory, so they were forced to find another solution. (As you might notice I tend to pay more attention to the business and production processes of TLG than the average fan).

The molds go where they are needed and where there is available factory and machine run time. Also some parts are so common that they will overlap new and old tooling and run them concurrently in different factories. Such as with minifig arms and hands. Right now we can tell that there are at least two sets of tooling in use. One with the numbers and one without. The safe bet is the newer tooling is the set with numbers that appears to currently be in China. As the older tooling ages the newer molds may move as needed and yet another set brought online. These are parts that are used in almost every single Lego set and will not be discontinued anytime soon, so the tooling would have a very constant cycle. Plus these parts are also very high margin so making an extra set of tooling is more easily justifiable and amortizable (is that a word?)

The slight differences in minifig leg and arm tension may be the result of minor variations between the tooling sets, ie the newer tooling may have actually been engineered to have a little less friction and stress at these joints. Or it might be caused by the slight differences in the plastic. But it is not necessarily an indication of a change in quality, nor is it a definition of poor quality. Every new variation on tooling makes some minor adjustments to friction and clutch power trying to find that perfect balance between strength of joint and minimizing of stress.

Edited January 15, 2014 by Faefrost

[Wodanis]

(As you might notice I tend to pay more attention to the business and production processes of TLG than the average fan).

Likewise I like learning more about the business and production side. If celebrities can create a nonsensical word like twerk. I think we can use a word such as amortizable.