Lost bricks - brick combos that can't be taken apart

[Superkalle]

There is a phenomena called "lost bricks" when you manage to place a brick in a way that it can't be taken apart, either becuase it can't be grabbed or because it becomes jammed together. A classic example is the one below.

It'd be interesting to hear if there are any other funny/interesting/annoying examples out there.

There is a similar topic that talks about about this, but that one is more focused on how to get the parts apart, and I'm more interested about techniques that makes the brick get lost in the first place, i.e. that they can't be taken apart with your simple methods such as your hands or a brick separator.

[WaysofSorting]

Great thread to start. The image above makes me sad just looking at it.

I don't have any strong examples at this time. Most "lost bricks" in my collection involve regular system pieces getting jammed and stuck up in the bottom end of a Duplo piece somehow, at an odd angle that can't be removed...

Kind of like the couch in the stairwell in Douglas Adams' "Dirk Gently's Holistic Detective Agency" (Paste from the wikipedia Article)

A number of elements in the novel were inspired by Adams' time at university. For example, one plot thread involves moving a sofa which is irreversibly stuck on the staircase to Richard's apartment; according to his simulations, not only is it impossible to remove it, but there is no way for it to have got into that position in the first place. In a similar incident that occurred while Douglas Adams attended St John's College, Cambridge, furniture was placed in the rooms overlooking the river in Third Court while the staircases were being refurbished. When the staircases were completed, it was discovered that the sofas could no longer be removed from the rooms, and the sofas remained in those rooms for several decades.

[JGW3000]

See also this thread in the Technic Forum, "Impossible Lego" http://www.eurobricks.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=81402

[Superkalle]

See also this thread in the Technic Forum, "Impossible Lego" http://www.eurobrick...showtopic=81402

That was an interesting read. But not quite what I was looking for as it seemed mostly about digital builds that can't even be put together in real LEGO.

I'm thinking about physcial parts (even though you can use LDD or similar to illustrate off course).

[zux]

I'm thinking about physcial parts (even though you can use LDD or similar to illustrate off course).

Check the post #101, #83. there are some variations of your initial design also.

[Lego Otaku]

LDD File

Once it is put together, it can't be taken apart without destroying a piece or 2.

[Faefrost]

LDD File

Once it is put together, it can't be taken apart without destroying a piece or 2.

Can that actually be assembled in the physical world?

[Junpei]

Yep, just insert the axles. I just made an impossible-to-take-apart combination today, I'll photograph it tomorrow.

I love topics like this.

[Mikuri]

I have a Bionicle part with something like this, I'll take a picture later. But Lego Otaku's exemples are stunning xD!

[Boxerlego]

I've constructed an Axle setup that use this part here as a lock that prevents a key liftarm to be removed from the design because it has a that extra .5 length at the end of that axle that hang out. Then on top of that you use the differential gear to lock 20t gear with 5.5 axle with stop in place. If I had done what Lego Otaku has shown in the above post with the axle connectors preventing the other locking axles to be pushed out then most of the axle design would have been permanent build. By far it is the most intricate locking build that I have devised currently.

[Aaron]

I recall that the 8376 Hot Flame RC Car set had a connection that was all but impossible to undo. In fact, I may still have the parts buried somewhere. I'll upload a photo if I can find it.

[62Bricks]

Not completely lost, but I found this combo in a bulk lot. I wonder if it is from an official set?

LEGO appears to acknowledge the difficulty in removing the blue pins because it includes a slot on the underside that can be used to pry them out from behind:

The slot is too small to use the edge of a brick separator. I tried various minifig utensils, but they are not rigid enough to pry them loose. Attaching a tubed brick to the stud end of the pin also does not work, as the friction of the pin connection is greater than the friction of a normal knob-tube connection. I was able to get them out by pressing the stud into a Technic pin hole. That connection is firm enough they can be pulled out.

It's a bit unusual, though, in that the piece is designed so you would have to use something like the tip of a knife to separate the pins using the slot on the underside.

I'm especially interested if anyone recognizes this combination from an official set. One of the design principles TLG uses is that pieces should not be too difficult for children to remove. They perhaps relax that for Technic elements? Still - these pieces are in a lot of non-Technic sets.

Edited December 29, 2013 by 62Bricks

[Vindicare]

Not completely lost, but I found this combo in a bulk lot. I wonder if it is from an official set?

LEGO appears to acknowledge the difficulty in removing the blue pins because it includes a slot on the underside that can be used to pry them out from behind:

The slot is too small to use the edge of a brick separator. I tried various minifig utensils, but they are not rigid enough to pry them loose. Attaching a tubed brick to the stud end of the pin also does not work, as the friction of the pin connection is greater than the friction of a normal knob-tube connection. I was able to get them out by pressing the stud into a Technic pin hole. That connection is firm enough they can be pulled out.

It's a bit unusual, though, in that the piece is designed so you would have to use something like the tip of a knife to separate the pins using the slot on the underside.

I'm especially interested if anyone recognizes this combination from an official set. One of the design principles TLG uses is that pieces should not be too difficult for children to remove. They perhaps relax that for Technic elements? Still - these pieces are in a lot of non-Technic sets.

To get those pins out, I use the nail file that's attached to some fingernail clippers. Those hinge pieces are used in just about every mech build over the last few years. I have a few from both Atlantis & Ninjao(among others I'm forgetting).

[Aaron]

Not completely lost, but I found this combo in a bulk lot. I wonder if it is from an official set?

LEGO appears to acknowledge the difficulty in removing the blue pins because it includes a slot on the underside that can be used to pry them out from behind:

The slot is too small to use the edge of a brick separator. I tried various minifig utensils, but they are not rigid enough to pry them loose. Attaching a tubed brick to the stud end of the pin also does not work, as the friction of the pin connection is greater than the friction of a normal knob-tube connection. I was able to get them out by pressing the stud into a Technic pin hole. That connection is firm enough they can be pulled out.

It's a bit unusual, though, in that the piece is designed so you would have to use something like the tip of a knife to separate the pins using the slot on the underside.

I'm especially interested if anyone recognizes this combination from an official set. One of the design principles TLG uses is that pieces should not be too difficult for children to remove. They perhaps relax that for Technic elements? Still - these pieces are in a lot of non-Technic sets.

Old grey era lightsaber blades/bars can remove the pins with relative ease. They're rigid and thick enough to grab onto the pins, but then you run into the problem of the pins getting stuck on the bars. LEGO apparently switched to a softer plastic mould when they changed to the newer colours, which is why the newer bars just slip out.

[Superkalle]

LEGO appears to acknowledge the difficulty in removing the blue pins because it includes a slot on the underside that can be used to pry them out from behind:

Actually the slots are not there to make it easier to remove the pins, but for molding purposes (easily mold the ridge that holds the blue pins in place). It's the same trick as with this one

Otherwise I agree it's a tricky combo to take apart.

[GregoryBrick]

Actually the slots are not there to make it easier to remove the pins, but for molding purposes (easily mold the ridge that holds the blue pins in place). It's the same trick as with this one

Are you sure? They had previously molded such elements without the slots, seen here, which holds pins just fine (and as a result can lead to stuck pins if you use a half-pin/stud). For an element which appeared in 1995 and lasted until 2010 I don't see how molding issues would have motivated the redesign.

[Faefrost]

Are you sure? They had previously molded such elements without the slots, seen here, which holds pins just fine (and as a result can lead to stuck pins if you use a half-pin/stud). For an element which appeared in 1995 and lasted until 2010 I don't see how molding issues would have motivated the redesign.

I think the slots are there to provide the space for the end of the pin to fully expand. They found that pins left under compression would weaken or not hold properly any more. The slots are to prevent part damage.

[GregoryBrick]

I think the slots are there to provide the space for the end of the pin to fully expand. They found that pins left under compression would weaken or not hold properly any more. The slots are to prevent part damage.

Yes, but the part I linked to allows the pins to fully expand. There's a recess inside, so the pins can snap into place like with any other technic hole. Once in there, it spins freely. It's not like putting a pin into a 1x1 round brick if that's what you are thinking. Perhaps there is still compression that is not noticeable to the average user, or perhaps the molding is cheaper with the new part. The old one may be a press fit of two+ parts to create the recess, I don't have it at hand right now. So - the introduction of the slot as a means to dislodge stuck bricks makes perfect sense, which led me to wonder where Superkalle got his info that it was for molding reasons. It's not that I don't believe Superkalle, just curious.

Edit: The piece I linked to leads to stuck pins if you use two half-pins/stud elements, one in each end. Otherwise you can just push one out with an axle, of course.

Edited December 31, 2013 by GregoryBrick

[62Bricks]

I think the slots are there to provide the space for the end of the pin to fully expand. They found that pins left under compression would weaken or not hold properly any more. The slots are to prevent part damage.

I have been thinking about this, and had an "Aha!" moment last night as I was looking at a similar piece that is also 2-wide with pinholes and has a slot. It was this piece:

I was wondering about that slot on the top, which is really too narrow and too deep to use to pry out any pins that might be stuck in the side holes. Then it occurred to me what it's for: It's there because of the way LEGO pieces are molded. Like you say, there is a recess inside the hole where the tabs on a connecting pin can expand. But the recess is larger than the hole itself, meaning the part of the mold that creates it has to have a larger diameter than the hole. This would be impossible, because then the piece could not be separated from the mold. The solution is to have a tab that pokes into the hole from the side and creates the recess.