Is the Ent in Orthanc Supposed to be Treebeard?

[Deathleech]

So what do you guys think? At first I didn't think he was supposed to be, but after taking a close look at both the Lego model and Treebeard I started to have my doubts. Now I am now fairly certain the Ent in Orthanc is in fact Treebeard. He has too many similarities to Treebeard in the film, and too few to hardly any of the other Ents I have found. He has the big nose Treebeard has, the branches coming off one side of his head, the amber/oranigsh colored eyes, and of course the mossy beard. Here are some other Ents for comparison:

Ash Ent

Beech Ent

Birch Ent

Linden Ent

Oak Ent

Rowan Ent

Willow Ent

Sure some have similarities to the Orthanc Ent. Most have the same color eyes. A few have beards, like the Ash and Willow Ent, though they appear to be different shape and size. None of these Ents seem to have all the characteristics of the Ent found in Orthanc though, except Treebeard. Of course there might be other Ents the Orthanc Ent was based off, but I find it hard to believe he would look so close to Treebeard.

So the big question is, why then did Lego not just come out and label the Ent as Treebeard? This seems to be the biggest reason people think the Ent in Orthanc is NOT Treebeard. With Lego though, who knows what their reasoning is? Sometimes they do some pretty strange things that don't really make sense to us. Why was the eagle in Orthanc not labeled Gwahir when it clearly is? I have theorized why not before, mainly because Gwaihir is never specifically named (except whispered) so people might not know the difference (or care). Treebeard on the other hand is named at least a few times though so he would be familiar to even casual fans. Maybe they wanted the Tower of Orthanc to have more multi purchase appeal'? I also find this hard to believe due to the price and extremely low minifigure count for the price.

So why then, would Lego NOT just label the Orthanc Ent as Treebeard?

[8BrickMario]

The Ent seems too dopey to be Treebeard, but otherwise, he looks a lot alike.

[CMP]

Maybe they intentionally left it vague so that if the theme continue doing well they could release an official Treebeard in his own set, and if not, well, you wouldn't be missing on much since you got an Ent that looks enough like him.

[SMC]

^ That sounds about right to me

[Suspsy]

His beard isn't nearly thick enough for him to be Treebeard.

[PassionateMOCNoob]

I think it's treebeard in the Orthanc set. I hope I'm wrong because I'd love another set with an Ent, and the only option would be Treebeard Encounter as been discussed here allot. The ent in Orthanc has the beard and two branches on its head just like treebeard, although they stick out the wrong way I think... The only problem with him being treebeard is that he doesn't have a head on top of his torso, but his torso is his head (unlike treebeard in the movies).

Edited November 4, 2013 by PassionateMOCNoob

[ZCerberus]

If he was Treebeard, they'd call him Treebeard. He must be something else.

[Deathleech]

Who is the ent in Orthanc supposed to be modeled after then? I couldn't find a single ent that looked anything like the Orthanc one. Treebeard was by far the closest one I could find with several similarities.

Keep in mind Lego regularly makes design decisions that aren't perfect to the source material. Legolas and Aragorn's clothing colors? The Goblin King Goblins and Moria Orcs having the same "normal" size legs when they are no taller than dwarves who use the "smal" legs (and Beorn not having the tall legs when he is supposed to be taller than everyone else). Gandalf and Lurtz having the hair piece they do when clearly Fili or Kili's would of been a more appropriate mold? The list goes on. I think having a beard not quite as full or some branches missing would be right in line with the other liberties Lego takes/has taken.

Edited November 4, 2013 by Deathleech

[Kommotion]

I would guess it's just a generic Ent. I agree that, were it Treebeard, TLG would say so.

[Deathleech]

Also, for those voting "no" to the ent being Treebeard because he isn't specifically named, what then is the explanation for Gwaihir not being specifically named either? We pretty much know for a fact the eagle is Gwaihir since he is the only eagle ever shown at Orthanc in the movies, Gandalf whispers his name to the moth, and on the back of the Lego Tower of Orthanc box it shows Gandalf being rescued from the top of the tower by him.

The more I think about it too, the Tower of Orthanc set has NO army builder value and very little multi purchase appeal (unless someone REALLY wants a ton of small black Lego pieces). You can buy 2x Orc Forge and 2x Black Gates sets for the same price as one Orthanc. That comes with double the white hand armor, double the eagles, eight Mordor Orcs (two with ears/hair!), and a slew of other exclusives like Gandalf the White, Gondor Aragorn, Mouth of Sauron, Lurtz, etc. I see no reason for Lego NOT to label the eagle as Gwaihir because they really wouldn't be losing anything. Even if people don't recognize the name are they going to care it's a named eagle vs a generic one?

[deskp]

It simply is not treebeard. Does not look like him AND hes not named that. As for Gwahir to all but a few that eagle is never named in the movie.

[Darth Punk]

I think lego didn't label the ent as treebeard because they don't plan on making any more. He looks similar enough that you could call him treebeard or just use him as a generic ent. And I wouldn't use the movie I would use the lego game as the basis of comparison.

[Deathleech]

The Lego video game version looks even less like the movie version than what we got in the Orthanc set though. About the only thing they did better was the thicker beard and mid section.

I think the explanation that Lego intentionally left the ent vague might be plausible. I just don't really see any other ent in him. Usually Lego uses a model or design for the basis for their creation, no? If so, which ent would the one in Orthanc be based on if not Treebeard? I have looked at dozens of ent pictures from the film and seriously none look remotely like the Orthanc ent we got. Treebeard is by far the closest thing.

[Robert_88]

I think the explanation that Lego intentionally left the ent vague might be plausible.

I agree.

I don't know why they didn't labbel the eagle as Gwaihir. Of course his name isn't mentioned in the movies but what about the Mouth of Sauron? I think the fact that his name is never mentioned shouldn't be a problem.

[ZCerberus]

Maybe the eagle isn't named because he looks exactly like one in the gates set. Easier to just leave them as generic.

[Robert_88]

Maybe the eagle isn't named because he looks exactly like one in the gates set. Easier to just leave them as generic.

I had the same idea but then I thought about Eomer who is included in an army builder set. But I think this is the best explanation.

[Gryphon Ink]

You've answered your own question there. TLG don't balk at giving specific characters their proper names. Therefore, the Ent is not Treebeard, because he would have been named Treebeard if he was. He's a generic Ent who looks similar to Treebeard.

As for why Gwaihir isn't named, I suspect it's because he's also meant to be a generic Eagle. The reason for this being that the exact same eagle comes in the Black Gate set, and TLG probably want to be able to say it's a different eagle and not a duplicate Gwaihir. Really, either one of these guys can be the specific character or a generic member of their species, depending on how you want to play - and that, I think, is the reason they don't have official Lego names. Just like one of the Nazgul in Attack on Weathertop can be the Witch-King if you want it to be.

[Deathleech]

As for why Gwaihir isn't named, I suspect it's because he's also meant to be a generic Eagle. The reason for this being that the exact same eagle comes in the Black Gate set, and TLG probably want to be able to say it's a different eagle and not a duplicate Gwaihir. Really, either one of these guys can be the specific character or a generic member of their species, depending on how you want to play - and that, I think, is the reason they don't have official Lego names. Just like one of the Nazgul in Attack on Weathertop can be the Witch-King if you want it to be.

Ya, I thought about this. I also figured Lego might not want to label the eagle as Gwaihir since they have the same mold/print as the eagle in the Black Gates set (Lego might want something "special" for a named character to distinguish him). But then I thought about it more and nothing really differentiates Gwaihir from the generic eagles in the movie anyways, to my knowledge. He has no special markings and really isn't a noticeably different size than the rest of the eagles.

It just seems kind of silly for Lego to pick and chooses who to label and who not to. Why didn't they just label Eomer as a Rohan Soldier since he looks enough like a grunt? The set would of had more army building appeal to some, and to others they could just say it IS Eomer since he looks close enough like him. Or why label Scribe in the Goblin King battle when they could of easily sold him off as a third generic goblin? I think Lego can get away with it more with creatures like the eagle and the Nazgul that arn't main characters and have no real distinguishing features, but it just seems weird the Orthanc ent has soo many similarities to Treebeard but Lego wouldn't label him as such.

[Mutant Orc]

Maybe so they didn't have to bother being so accurate. If they'd said "Treebeard" we'd have all had a huge rant about the inaccuracies where as "Ent" just made us think- "Ooh how nice of them to bother making an Ent to play with"

[Legoman123]

I think if this was supposed to be Treebeard, we would have been told in the unveil video. I say this because if the Ent was supposed to be Treebeard, then that would have been too much of an important detail to leave out.

Edited November 4, 2013 by Legoman123

[SMC]

I will use it as treebeard unless we get a treebeard set so to me it does not matter too much.

[Mr_Malfoy]

Yes, I think the Ent is Treebeard. The beard is what gives it away, and I don't think we'll get any other sets with Ents with them, so I believe it's Treebeard.

[Gryphon Ink]

It just seems kind of silly for Lego to pick and chooses who to label and who not to. Why didn't they just label Eomer as a Rohan Soldier since he looks enough like a grunt? The set would of had more army building appeal to some, and to others they could just say it IS Eomer since he looks close enough like him. Or why label Scribe in the Goblin King battle when they could of easily sold him off as a third generic goblin? I think Lego can get away with it more with creatures like the eagle and the Nazgul that arn't main characters and have no real distinguishing features, but it just seems weird the Orthanc ent has soo many similarities to Treebeard but Lego wouldn't label him as such.

It's really not silly. Unique characters sell more. The army-building market just isn't TLG's main concern. For every AFOL who might buy six copies of UHA to build armies with, there are ten or twenty people who will buy one set, especially if it includes a hero like Eomer. The army builders will buy the set anyway, so TLG's primary focus is to motivate the one-time buyers. Obviously, I'm making these numbers up, but they wouldn't market things this way if the numbers weren't working out for them.

Minifigs that aren't unique won't be sold as unique characters. There's no complicated reason for it. They just aren't unique. TLG won't sell the same eagle as "Eagle" in one set and "Gwaihir" in another. It's either Gwaihir both times, or it's a generic eagle both times. To do otherwise would be fraudulent, and we'd all be sitting here complaining about how "Gwaihir" was just an ordinary eagle fig.

[Deathleech]

It's really not silly. Unique characters sell more. The army-building market just isn't TLG's main concern. For every AFOL who might buy six copies of UHA to build armies with, there are ten or twenty people who will buy one set, especially if it includes a hero like Eomer. The army builders will buy the set anyway, so TLG's primary focus is to motivate the one-time buyers. Obviously, I'm making these numbers up, but they wouldn't market things this way if the numbers weren't working out for them.

Right, I have heard that argument dozens of times for why Lego includes a special character in their army builders. I can understand that. It goes against why they wouldn't label the ent in the Tower of Orthanc as Treebeard though. Wouldn't people be more likely to buy the set if they got an exclusive Grima, Saruman's bottom robe, AND Treebeard (and Gwaihir for that matter)? I mean I can understand Lego making the ent look similar enough to Treebeard that people can use him as such, and not directly labeling him Treebeard in case they get the chance to release a proper set in the future. But then why don't they do this more often?

Minifigs that aren't unique won't be sold as unique characters. There's no complicated reason for it. They just aren't unique. TLG won't sell the same eagle as "Eagle" in one set and "Gwaihir" in another. It's either Gwaihir both times, or it's a generic eagle both times. To do otherwise would be fraudulent, and we'd all be sitting here complaining about how "Gwaihir" was just an ordinary eagle fig.

But they ARE sold as unique characters. Heck, one example is right in the Tower of Orthanc! They have the "Orc Pitmaster", but he is made of the EXACT same pieces and print as the Mordor Orc from the Orc Forge. He also is the same minifigure as in the Pirate Ship Ambush and Black Gates, but at least there they gave him some Uruk-hai armor to try and differentiate him a little. For Gwaihir it actually wouldn't be as bad because there really is nothing to differentiate him from the other eagles. If Lego really wanted to make Gwaihir, how are they going to do it if they want to release a generic eagle too? They would be identical. Don't get me wrong, I can totally see how this can put Lego in a bad spot (do we have the SAME eagle mold be Gwaihir and special, or label him as a generic eagle and then when we put him in more sets than 1 people are fine getting multiples?). They do this all the time with pieces though, re-use the same ones and label them something else. It's not fraudulent at all, it's a way for them to save money and re-use expensive molds.

Edited November 5, 2013 by Deathleech

[SheepEater]

So what do you guys think? At first I didn't think he was supposed to be, but after taking a close look at both the Lego model and Treebeard I started to have my doubts. Now I am now fairly certain the Ent in Orthanc is in fact Treebeard. He has too many similarities to Treebeard in the film, and too few to hardly any of the other Ents I have found. He has the big nose Treebeard has, the branches coming off one side of his head, the amber/oranigsh colored eyes, and of course the mossy beard. Here are some other Ents for comparison:

Ash Ent

Beech Ent

Birch Ent

Linden Ent

Oak Ent

Rowan Ent

Willow Ent

Sure some have similarities to the Orthanc Ent. Most have the same color eyes. A few have beards, like the Ash and Willow Ent, though they appear to be different shape and size. None of these Ents seem to have all the characteristics of the Ent found in Orthanc though, except Treebeard. Of course there might be other Ents the Orthanc Ent was based off, but I find it hard to believe he would look so close to Treebeard.

So the big question is, why then did Lego not just come out and label the Ent as Treebeard? This seems to be the biggest reason people think the Ent in Orthanc is NOT Treebeard. With Lego though, who knows what their reasoning is? Sometimes they do some pretty strange things that don't really make sense to us. Why was the eagle in Orthanc not labeled Gwahir when it clearly is? I have theorized why not before, mainly because Gwaihir is never specifically named (except whispered) so people might not know the difference (or care). Treebeard on the other hand is named at least a few times though so he would be familiar to even casual fans. Maybe they wanted the Tower of Orthanc to have more multi purchase appeal'? I also find this hard to believe due to the price and extremely low minifigure count for the price.

So why then, would Lego NOT just label the Orthanc Ent as Treebeard?

How about Quickbeam? (An important Ent in the book). Looks close to the Lego version.

name='Deathleech' timestamp='1383524001' post='1732588'][/b]

But they ARE sold as unique characters. Heck, one example is right in the Tower of Orthanc! They have the "Orc Pitmaster", but he is made of the EXACT same pieces and print as the Mordor Orc from the Orc Forge.

Orc Pitmaster is more of a rank than a character name. Here you go generic mordor orc #723, here's a big axe and a grappling hook, you are now the Pitmaster of Orthanc, enjoy your new job!

Edited November 7, 2013 by SheepEater