Count Dooku vs Saruman in a fight

[SheepEater]

VS

Who would win in a fight?

[Leo604]

Saruman cause magic.

[Legonardo]

Saruman cause looks.

[Captain Settle]

Dooku, because Saruman wouldn't be able to fight in a skirt.

[Alfadas]

Saruman, he has magic!! And count Dooku only has a lightsaber and forcelightning, so Saruman wins!!

[Leo604]

Dooku, because Saruman wouldn't be able to fight in a skirt.

There was that scene against Gandalf in FotR. :P

[Fives]

Dooku. A lightsaber. Seriously, even though Saruman has magic, Dooku could just leap over him, Force lightning him, and BAM decapitation!

[Scorpiox]

Saruman, because Minor God.

[Zilcho]

Saruman, because Minor God.

this

[BlueberryWaffles]

Sharkyman of Many Colors!

(you get free lembas if you get that )

Edited July 15, 2013 by Tolkien

[Leo604]

Sharkyman of Many Colors!

(you get free lembas if you get that )

Reference from the first (robes) and third (Sharkey) books?

[BlueberryWaffles]

Yay you get free elf cake^

[The_Chosen_1]

As much as I love Star Wars (Lord of the Rings comes second ), I have to say that Saruman would absolutely win.

[Spider-Man]

Well movie version I would definitely take Dooku since Saruman in the movie didn't really show a whole lot of his powers...However Saruman from the books would probably destroy Dooku.

[gryffindorcommonroom]

Dooku, by far. He's just far more powerful and sinister.

[Palathadric]

Saruman would sweet-talk Dooku and make him his apprentice.

[Rook]

Just says fight. I'm guessing this is hand to hand combat. Because if not, sorry. Count Dooku could simply bombard Middle Earth from space. Hey Saruman can your planet withstand an all out assault from the entire Separatist Army?

[SteampunkDoc]

Ok, I just have to join in.

I assume this is at fairly close range, and with no other combatants.

To find the winner, we have to examine the power levels and capabilities of both, and then find out how the battle should go.

We will also have to seek out similarities and differences, as well as examine the equipment of both men.

Saruman-There's a bit of difference between the book and the movies. In the book, his offensive powers are not detailed, and only had his persuasive voice explained.

(Other than his extensive knowledge of mechanics, ring-lone, and general wisdom, although those wouldn't do that much good in a fight.)

In the movie, he influences the weather, (Caradhras) flings a fireball, and does some telekinesis tricks. In the animated film, he also flings a great fireball from Isengaurd all the way to Helm's Deep, and breaks the walls by said device. He has his staff, but again, while it can be assumed that it possesses more magical abilities, nothing is detailed. It can be used as a melee weapon, and as a spear. Saruman rarely gets into battles himself, so he lacks the offensive equipment and experience that Gandalf would possess. Thus making him a valued ally in the planning and preparation phase of a war, but less helpful in the actual battle.

Dooku-Going strictly off of the movies, is one of the best duelists, as well as highly skilled in the Force.

He chokes, electrocutes, and nearly smashes his enemies using the force, and even when simply lightsaber dueling, he has proven himself a worthy opponent. Also, possession of a highly advanced lightsaber would give Dooku quite an edge in a sword fight.

Both are political leaders, both turned from the light to the dark, and both served a more corrupt, more evil villain. Both had large roles early into their trilogies, but were offed at the start of the third movie. In the movies, they were also both stabbed in the back by former friends. (Grima literally, Palpatine figuratively.) Both were of course played by Christopher Lee, and both died gruesome deaths. They also both have beards, and both wear robes.

Thus, Dooku's offensive and combat abilities far outweigh those of Saruman, and while the latter has considerably more knowledge and wisdom, Dooku would have won this fight hands down. Counting other sources such as video games adds to Saruman's abilities, and would make them about even in the area of Magic/Force use, but even then he could not match Dooku's movie skills in physical combat.

So, Dooku would win. Although chances are that they, being very like-minded, would strike up an agreement and turn on others before destroying each other.

And that's hard to say, since my love for LOTR is huge, and love of Star Wars is little to none.

[Scorpiox]

To be honest I don't believe that Dooku would stand a chance, as it is unclear whether Saruman prior to having his powers broken could actually die. In the LotR universe Maia such as the Wizards posses incredible power and skill, as demonstrated by Gandalf only really 'dying' after falling through the world's floor whilst destroying a fiery archdemon - a foe that would almost certainly wipe away the Count before he could even activate his lightsaber. In both the LotR films and novels, Saruman is only able to be killed after he is expelled from his order for joining the dark side, before which I believe that he would be invulnerable. If only a less powerful wizard like Gandalf the Grey is able to vanquish a centuries-old monster and afterwards resurrect himself to replace Saruman as head of the Istari, the mind positively boggles at what the leader of the group could inflict upon Dooku in a battle. To think, he is able to win comfortably against another minor god - and for these reasons I reckon that old Tyranus, barely more than a excellently skilled monk with a laser sword and force powers, would be crushed into the flagstones by a wizard with a face exactly like his.

To summarise:

• Dooku's force abilities could be negated or at least outmatched by Saruman's magic.
  
• Dooku's agility would have no effect in a level playing field.
  
• Dooku's swordfighting skills would be the greatest threat, although it is likely that Saruman also has great close combat skills that we never get to see, if his less powerful comrade, Gandalf, is anything to base things off.
  

[The Legonater]

I have to agree with Scorpiox. Saruman is one of the Istari, a group of Maia, which are essentially angels or lesser gods of the LotR universe. The sheer thought of Dooku winning is ludicrous, Saruman would curbstomp him.

A more realistic battle would be Dooku vs. Dracula.

[SteampunkDoc]

True, although I was strictly going off of perceived powers, not implied. And Gandalf didn't raise himself from the dead.

First, he died. Really and truly, then was sent back by the Valar since his task was not yet done.

The Istari can die. Saruman did, Radagast might in the Hobbit movies, and Gandalf did.

Yes, should all the implied and assumed powers of the wizard be counted, then he would win.

But as I said, Gandalf appears to be a much more combat orientated wizard than Saruman, and just because he fought in one way doesn't mean that Saruman could/would do so also.

You also have to remember that Gandalf's arm was broken in the battle of Five Armies. Thus showing that he could be hurt by normal means. Saruman's stabbing was after he lost his powers, but we never see how that may have affected him differently at another time. And don't forget that the movies, my primary source, de-power the wizards to some degree.

Also, the Balrog was a totally different animal, being a primarily physical, and not magical, threat.

Edited July 19, 2013 by SteampunkDoc

[Scorpiox]

True, although I was strictly going off of perceived powers, not implied. And Gandalf didn't raise himself from the dead.

First, he died. Really and truly, then was sent back by the Valar since his task was not yet done.

The Istari can die. Saruman did, Radagast might in the Hobbit movies, and Gandalf did.

Yes, should all the implied and assumed powers of the wizard be counted, then he would win.

But as I said, Gandalf appears to be a much more combat orientated wizard than Saruman, and just because he fought in one way doesn't mean that Saruman could/would do so also.

You also have to remember that Gandalf's arm was broken in the battle of Five Armies. Thus showing that he could be hurt by normal means. Saruman's stabbing was after he lost his powers, but we never see how that may have affected him differently at another time.

Also, the Balrog was a totally different animal, being a primarily physical, and not magical, threat.

Remember that Saruman only dies after the Valar expelled him from the order and remove his powers, having Gandalf replace him as 'the White'. Gandalf's episode also proves that the Istari are basically as immortal as the major gods want them to be.

I'm not really sure what you mean by the last comment. If Gandalf, a weaker wizard can beat an immensely physically powerful monster in close fighting, surely this is evidence that Istari are more than capable melee fighters. The Balrog is a far greater danger to Maia than a Jedi/Sith would be, therefore I doubt this battle would last very long at all.

A more realistic battle would be Dooku vs. Dracula.

The fight would probably pan out like this:

Dooku: Count Dracula cannot harm me, he is barely even able to rise during the day!

Suddenly and very oddly, the bright daylight turns into black midnight, all in the space of a few moments.

Dracula: You forget, Dooku, that this is a Hammer House of Horror Dracula film, in which the days can be as long as the director deems appropriate!

[SteampunkDoc]

I love friendly debates.

Mr. Balrog only had limited magical abilities. Fire projection being the main one. He doesn't have the more varied abilities that Dooku does. (Telekinesis, lightening, choke, Ect...)

Also, the fight as purposed included only the two combatants, not any backup or healers. (AKA, no Valar help, and death is death.)

Just because he didn't die until afterwords doesn't mean that he couldn't die. And a lightsaber is far better that any sword, and may could even cut through a wizard's staff.

But that being said, you are right. I didn't take everything into account.