dundarach Posted May 13, 2013 Posted May 13, 2013 I have a dead 9v power car...grrr It runs for a few seconds and then stops, it would appear the problem from what I've read, on here and elsewhere, is faulty temperature sensors which cause it to stop. It's a mabuchi motor, but does anyone know which one, I've searched and searched and cant find a double ended one, with the power pickups sticking out the back, rather than on top.... HELLLLLLLLPPP please :) Quote
LEGO Guy Bri Posted May 13, 2013 Posted May 13, 2013 (edited) I've been trying to get my hands on a burnt out 9V motor. I want to take the bottom plate off to access the motor to try and solder in a the motor from a PF base. It also has a double shaft output, and for $9-10? I'd do it. I was also able to find this similar topic. There is also this website Edited May 13, 2013 by LEGO Guy Bri Quote
dundarach Posted May 13, 2013 Author Posted May 13, 2013 it surely can't be this hard...perhaps we could email lego :) Quote
alainneke Posted May 13, 2013 Posted May 13, 2013 I have a dead 9v power car...grrr It runs for a few seconds and then stops, it would appear the problem from what I've read, on here and elsewhere, is faulty temperature sensors which cause it to stop. It's a mabuchi motor, but does anyone know which one, I've searched and searched and cant find a double ended one, with the power pickups sticking out the back, rather than on top.... HELLLLLLLLPPP please :) The temperature sensor in the 9V motor is actually a PTC (positive temperature coefficient) and it looks like a small disc (leftmost on the picture): If you suspect it's faulty, just remove it and try to run the motor again. Good luck! Quote
dundarach Posted May 13, 2013 Author Posted May 13, 2013 Where is this, have the motor in pieces exactly like above, even took the little capacitor? between the contacts out, but I never saw the disk...? The motor runs away outside the train and even has enough torque to hurt my fat fingers if I apply pressure whilst it's turning outside. The moment I put it back in the boogie it stops... Where would I find the disk thingy? and thanks :) Quote
alainneke Posted May 13, 2013 Posted May 13, 2013 The PTC should be squashed between the two metal plates which hold the capacitor and one of the power pickup wipers. It's very thin and may stick to one of the other parts, so it's easily overlooked. What happens if you apply 9V to the top connector of the motor bogie? Quote
dundarach Posted May 13, 2013 Author Posted May 13, 2013 Not sure about the top, will try that next.... Can't find the disk thing at all, attached is everything that's inside - certain it's never been opened, I had to grind the tabs :) Anything else I could try??? Thanks again for all the suggestions so far! Quote
alainneke Posted May 14, 2013 Posted May 14, 2013 Not sure about the top, will try that next.... Can't find the disk thing at all, attached is everything that's inside - certain it's never been opened, I had to grind the tabs :) Anything else I could try??? Thanks again for all the suggestions so far! No problem! Having opened several of these motors, the disk usually ended up on the floor :) But if it isn't there, it surely can't be the source of your problems! What happens if you only put the motor and wipers back in and apply power to the top connector? If the motor runs fine, I suspect that the wheels could use some cleaning. Just rub them with a pencil eraser: the wheels will look the same after cleaning them, but the eraser won't... Quote
dundarach Posted May 14, 2013 Author Posted May 14, 2013 thanks again, I'll give everything a good clean later and try again - including using the top connector... I've also done some more digging around in google and think the closest is: http://www.motraxx.com/produktsegmente/mikromotoren/details.html?product=20&action=detail the dimensions of the 260 motor from Mabuchi match mine and it appears to be double ended the mabuchi single ended one is: http://www.mabuchi-motor.co.jp/cgi-bin/catalog/e_catalog.cgi?CAT_ID=fk_260sa where I took the measurements from Does anyone know where to buy a motraxx motor - other than them obviously!! Quote
alainneke Posted May 14, 2013 Posted May 14, 2013 (edited) Motraxx motors are sold by conrad-uk.com. I took a quick look at their catalog, but your specific motor doesn't seem to be listed. Maybe you could send them an inquiry? Edited May 14, 2013 by alainneke Quote
dundarach Posted May 14, 2013 Author Posted May 14, 2013 Nice one, thanks, right have searched through AND..... I think I might be onto something - isn't this the chap we need????? Looks VERY close, think I might give it a bash http://www.conrad-uk.com/ce/en/product/229021/Motraxx-Electric-motor-X-Train-263-H0-Idle-speed-229021 http://www.produktinfo.conrad.com/datenblaetter/225000-249999/229021-da-01-en-MOTOR_EISENBAH_X_TRAIN_263_H0.pdf Quote
alainneke Posted May 14, 2013 Posted May 14, 2013 You should take the old motor (with gears) to your local train hobby shop and ask for a suitable gear puller. NWSL (nwsl.com) makes a range of these pullers (called "the Puller"; how very original), but I really don't know which one will fit. You could also try to get it of by carefully wedging a knife blade between the gear and the motor. What you shouldn't do is to try to remove the gear while holding it by its teeth! Quote
dundarach Posted May 14, 2013 Author Posted May 14, 2013 Thanks, I'm going to clean everything tonight and if no joy, going to order a motor, then, if it fits I'll try and pull the pinion gear, otherwise I think I could find a replacement. I will report back later on this evening! Good news if those motors fit however, I'll buy a few :) Quote
LEGO Guy Bri Posted May 14, 2013 Posted May 14, 2013 I know with r/c cars, they heat the gear until it expands and slides off. Repeat to get it back on Quote
kieran Posted May 14, 2013 Posted May 14, 2013 Yep heat is the way, the issue it will kill the motor the gear is on as the heat will travel up the shaft, the trick when putting it back on is to be quick, get it just hot enough and no more, to be extra sure you can chill the motor and new shaft in the freezer before applying the hot gear but be cartful as you can get it too cold and then you run the risk of creating condensation in your nice new motor. good luck Quote
dundarach Posted May 14, 2013 Author Posted May 14, 2013 thanks everyone, well cleaned everything and .... ran for a while - so going to run longer at weekend...grrrr however what is the little capacitor thingy between the terminal points! Quote
kieran Posted May 14, 2013 Posted May 14, 2013 its a capacitor to suppress spikes this has 2 benefits, reduces electrical noise and extend the brush life of the motor Quote
bricks n bolts Posted May 31, 2013 Posted May 31, 2013 Motraxx 263 will work most likely but it runs off 12v rather than 9v. I switched out a PF motor for one on my 12v layout. Quote
legoboy3998 Posted June 3, 2013 Posted June 3, 2013 (edited) Motraxx 263 will work most likely but it runs off 12v rather than 9v. I switched out a PF motor for one on my 12v layout. That shouldn't matter. With D/C motors, the voltage only determines speed. So if you have a motor rated for 12V, running it at 9v would just mean you are running the motor a 3/4 power. I wonder if the 9v LEGO train motors are really 12 motors inside, but are labeled as 9v because of the transformer rating. Sal WFB, WI Edited June 3, 2013 by legoboy3998 Quote
dundarach Posted June 3, 2013 Author Posted June 3, 2013 I need to get one and try it, however now that I've got mine going I'm not going to wreck it again... Now if someone wants to send me a broken one I'll buy the motor haha :) Quote
bricks n bolts Posted June 3, 2013 Posted June 3, 2013 That shouldn't matter. With D/C motors, the voltage only determines speed. I didn't say it wouldn't work. Speed is the main concern. PF and RC 9v motors on 12v definitely run too fast without being turned down, so it's pretty likely that the 12v motors on 9v will run too slow. Just need to be aware of that, probably OK for a train meant to be slow like a shunter. Also note that the Motraxx 263 doesn't have any great traction advantages as compared to the normal motors, just from experience running them, they are about the same. Quote
alainneke Posted June 3, 2013 Posted June 3, 2013 Also note that the Motraxx 263 doesn't have any great traction advantages as compared to the normal motors, just from experience running them, they are about the same. Is this compared to the 12V motors, or the PF/RC motors? I'm experimenting with a 7740, for which I want to have maximum power output: will two of these modified motors (@12V) perform better than two PF motors (@9V)? Quote
bricks n bolts Posted June 3, 2013 Posted June 3, 2013 (edited) Is this compared to the 12V motors, or the PF/RC motors? The PF/RC ones. They are better than RC but not sure about the PF ones, couldn't really make my mind up and I don't have the gear to measure the difference scientifically. I'm experimenting with a 7740, for which I want to have maximum power output: will two of these modified motors (@12V) perform better than two PF motors (@9V)? I also did this for my 7740 As said as a guess I don't think they will do better than PF if both run off their respective voltages. I have one Motraxx263 inside a PF casing running my 7740 with 3 carriages. However, there is one key advantage, the gearing on RC and PF motors looks to be about the same. So you can use the Motraxx 263 to replace the weak RC motors and you get the advantage of the RC casing which has the nice 9v electric pickup points as compared to the PF bulky wire. Edited June 3, 2013 by bricks n bolts Quote
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