Risgrynsgrot Posted July 20, 2014 Posted July 20, 2014 Sadly, I believe that other than a very dedicated and small fanbase most people don't care too much about LEGO LOTR. I do believe that Hobbit is more popular, solely due to being movie tie-ins. And LEGO doesn't care about making iconic moments, they care about sales, hence why they decided to make a Pirate Ship Ambush in wave 2 instead of a Gondor set - kids like pirate ships, eh? Quote
LegoThomas Posted July 20, 2014 Posted July 20, 2014 (edited) but kids like castles, battle trolls, soldiers, fellbeasts and balrogs too! ... i still believe in a third wave! Edited July 20, 2014 by LegoThomas Quote
deskp Posted July 20, 2014 Posted July 20, 2014 but kids like castles, battle trolls, soldiers, fellbeasts and balrogs too! But do they care when it's part of a lisence they don't like or dont really know about? Quote
Alcarin Posted July 20, 2014 Posted July 20, 2014 Sadly, I believe that other than a very dedicated and small fanbase most people don't care too much about LEGO LOTR. I do believe that Hobbit is more popular, solely due to being movie tie-ins. And LEGO doesn't care about making iconic moments, they care about sales, hence why they decided to make a Pirate Ship Ambush in wave 2 instead of a Gondor set - kids like pirate ships, eh? Yeh but thats the biggest problem with LEGO and LOTR ..... They care about sales (all logical and accepted) but then they make illogical decisions based on first logical assumption that they care for sales..... Had we gotten 4 same sets like Uruk-hai army was just different figs and different builds - 4 Moria Orcs + Boromir + Gimli (and a part of Moria) - 4 orcs + Legolas + Aragorn (and a part of Amon hen) the sales would skyrocket...... And thats just 2 simple sets.... LEGO doomed their own sales with set decisions..... Quote
coolguy2323 Posted July 20, 2014 Posted July 20, 2014 I just prefer to remain optimistic. I think we will at least get a Minas Tirith before Lego lets the rights go. Quote
Risgrynsgrot Posted July 20, 2014 Posted July 20, 2014 Yeh but thats the biggest problem with LEGO and LOTR ..... They care about sales (all logical and accepted) but then they make illogical decisions based on first logical assumption that they care for sales..... Had we gotten 4 same sets like Uruk-hai army was just different figs and different builds - 4 Moria Orcs + Boromir + Gimli (and a part of Moria) - 4 orcs + Legolas + Aragorn (and a part of Amon hen) the sales would skyrocket...... And thats just 2 simple sets.... LEGO doomed their own sales with set decisions..... That's not true at all. Remember that even if there's a bunch of AFOLs that buy like 10 sets for armybuilding they are still a miniscule part of the whole customer base, which is by a wide margin based mostly of kids. Quote
deskp Posted July 20, 2014 Posted July 20, 2014 but everyone would have picked up a balrog! I wouldnt. i think it's overhyped. if it was groot style then i would consider it. Quote
SMC Posted July 20, 2014 Posted July 20, 2014 (edited) I wouldnt. i think it's overhyped well you really can't please all of the people Edited July 20, 2014 by SMC Quote
lego the hutt Posted July 20, 2014 Posted July 20, 2014 A Lego Ideas Project to support https://ideas.lego.com/projects/51716 Quote
Faefrost Posted July 21, 2014 Posted July 21, 2014 but kids like castles, battle trolls, soldiers, fellbeasts and balrogs too! ... i still believe in a third wave! Do you remember when your parents broke it to you about Santa Claus and the Easter Bunny? Yeah, this is probably another one of those little life moments... Quote
Deathleech Posted July 21, 2014 Posted July 21, 2014 That's not true at all. Remember that even if there's a bunch of AFOLs that buy like 10 sets for armybuilding they are still a miniscule part of the whole customer base, which is by a wide margin based mostly of kids. I always hear people say this, but I just don't get it. Do kids really not buy ANY army builders? That's basically what it would take to balance out adults buying multiples? I mean I figure kids would buy the same amount of an army builder set as they do most other stanard ones, and that is just a single set each, but some adults go crazy and buy 5, 10, or even more each. There seems to be this stigma that kids don't buy any army builders at all which, despite adults buying multiples, actually hurts sales. From what I have seen it appears the Uruk-hai Army and Mirkwood Elf Army sets were by far the best sellers from the four combined waves we have gotten so far though. The only reason Lego doesn't seem to do more is so they still can hit key scenes and include key characters without saturating the market with all these army builders. As for the Pirate Ship debate, I feel like Lego missed the mark there. They gambled and figured it would have cross theme appeal because you have LotR fans AND ship fans, but it seems like a lot of LotR fans were really turned off because it's such a minor scene in the films to make such an expensive set out of. Why wouldn't a cool Gondor set have the same appeal to multiple genres? You could capture the monster fans with a Fel Beast, the LotR fans with all the named characters, and the castle fans with some really sweet looking new Gondor Soldier helm and shield molds/prints. Lastly have we tried to post all these Lego Idea projects to sites such as theonering.net? It seems like posting it there would significantly bump the amount of support for the projects in a very small amount of time. I know when other projects get posted to sites like Bricset or the Purdue Pete one on the school site their support can double or triple over night. Some times they even go from a few hundred/thousand supports to having the 10,000 goal reached within a very short amount of time. With all the LotR fans on theonering.net it seems like they would support some of the better LotR projects whether they are Lego fans or not. Quote
SMC Posted July 21, 2014 Posted July 21, 2014 (edited) A little idea I had for a topic support LOTR there http://www.eurobricks.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=98013 and give me feedback on the idea thanks Edited July 21, 2014 by SMC Quote
Alcarin Posted July 21, 2014 Posted July 21, 2014 That's not true at all. Remember that even if there's a bunch of AFOLs that buy like 10 sets for armybuilding they are still a miniscule part of the whole customer base, which is by a wide margin based mostly of kids. the thing is there is a bunch of people who would buy 100 or even 1000x XYXY sets if there were armybuilders........ I am yet to see someone buying 100 Elrond's Councils, I know I would buy way more Gondor battle packs than I would buy Elrond's Councils.... and the kids would get the same most likely, so its a win-win-win..... You think A kid would say Daddy I want Elrond's Council over big black Balrog Beast with 2 Moria orcs and Gandalf??? Or do you think Kid would mostly go hey I dont want that big Olifont set I want that Black Gates? Forget it , mostly they would choose the sets that are missing, thats why I believe LEGO shot themselves in the knee with set choices..... especially in wave 2...... Wave 1 was okish though. Quote
atreyu2112 Posted July 21, 2014 Posted July 21, 2014 (edited) Yeh but thats the biggest problem with LEGO and LOTR ..... They care about sales (all logical and accepted) but then they make illogical decisions based on first logical assumption that they care for sales..... LEGO doomed their own sales with set decisions..... NAILED IT but everyone would have picked up a balrog! Indeed they would! Well, except for DeskP, but everyone else would - Most iconic scene from the first film. INSANITY this wasn't part of the first wave, I'm mind-blown we still don't have it! I always hear people say this, but I just don't get it. Do kids really not buy ANY army builders? That's basically what it would take to balance out adults buying multiples? I mean I figure kids would buy the same amount of an army builder set as they do most other stanard ones, and that is just a single set each, but some adults go crazy and buy 5, 10, or even more each. There seems to be this stigma that kids don't buy any army builders at all which, despite adults buying multiples, actually hurts sales. From what I have seen it appears the Uruk-hai Army and Mirkwood Elf Army sets were by far the best sellers from the four combined waves we have gotten so far though. The only reason Lego doesn't seem to do more is so they still can hit key scenes and include key characters without saturating the market with all these army builders. As for the Pirate Ship debate ... a lot of LotR fans were really turned off because it's such a minor scene in the films to make such an expensive set out of ... Lastly have we tried to post all these Lego Idea projects to sites such as theonering.net? It seems like posting it there would significantly bump the amount of support for the projects in a very small amount of time. With all the LotR fans on theonering.net it seems like they would support some of the better LotR projects whether they are Lego fans or not. This, this & this !!! the thing is there is a bunch of people who would buy 100 or even 1000x XYXY sets if there were armybuilders........ I am yet to see someone buying 100 Elrond's Councils, I know I would buy way more Gondor battle packs than I would buy Elrond's Councils.... and the kids would get the same most likely, so its a win-win-win..... You think A kid would say Daddy I want Elrond's Council over big black Balrog Beast with 2 Moria orcs and Gandalf??? Or do you think Kid would mostly go hey I dont want that big Olifont set I want that Black Gates? Forget it , mostly they would choose the sets that are missing, thats why I believe LEGO shot themselves in the knee with set choices..... especially in wave 2...... Next round is on me, CHEERS! I couldn't agree more. Edited July 21, 2014 by atreyu2112 Quote
Dr.Cogg Posted July 21, 2014 Posted July 21, 2014 I think one of the main problems with the second wave is that all the sets seemed like sets you would make after you get most of the main scenes out of the way. Quote
Faefrost Posted July 21, 2014 Posted July 21, 2014 I always hear people say this, but I just don't get it. Do kids really not buy ANY army builders? That's basically what it would take to balance out adults buying multiples? I mean I figure kids would buy the same amount of an army builder set as they do most other stanard ones, and that is just a single set each, but some adults go crazy and buy 5, 10, or even more each. There seems to be this stigma that kids don't buy any army builders at all which, despite adults buying multiples, actually hurts sales. From what I have seen it appears the Uruk-hai Army and Mirkwood Elf Army sets were by far the best sellers from the four combined waves we have gotten so far though. The only reason Lego doesn't seem to do more is so they still can hit key scenes and include key characters without saturating the market with all these army builders. As for the Pirate Ship debate, I feel like Lego missed the mark there. They gambled and figured it would have cross theme appeal because you have LotR fans AND ship fans, but it seems like a lot of LotR fans were really turned off because it's such a minor scene in the films to make such an expensive set out of. Why wouldn't a cool Gondor set have the same appeal to multiple genres? You could capture the monster fans with a Fel Beast, the LotR fans with all the named characters, and the castle fans with some really sweet looking new Gondor Soldier helm and shield molds/prints. Lastly have we tried to post all these Lego Idea projects to sites such as theonering.net? It seems like posting it there would significantly bump the amount of support for the projects in a very small amount of time. I know when other projects get posted to sites like Bricset or the Purdue Pete one on the school site their support can double or triple over night. Some times they even go from a few hundred/thousand supports to having the 10,000 goal reached within a very short amount of time. With all the LotR fans on theonering.net it seems like they would support some of the better LotR projects whether they are Lego fans or not. Kids prefer minifig collecting. Individual named figs with their own stories. Yeah some will army build. But it has to be something that really kind of resonates with them. Storm Troopers and Clone Troopers do that really well. Whereas for LotR the kid appeal is less in the vast battles and in particular orcs, than it is the individual character fights. Yeah the big battles like Gondor are awe inspiring. But it's not something kids will attempt to build en mass. And even if a small number of AZfOls are buying 10-20 apiece, it still doesn't come close to touching the potential of the kid market. And this reflects some of the other problems in the line. Why did we not get a nice Gondor set? Why the Pirate Ship? Well one reason is quite frankly, because Helms Deep was not a great seller. It's a fantastic set, but let's be honest with ourselves. Show of hands who here bought it at deep discount? Do you understand why? They chose to do the Pirate ship because the big "Castle Wall battle" didn't go over well, and it was probably hoped that the Ship would attract a broader audience. Cross pollinating some with the pirates fans and such. Quote
Trunkbass Posted July 21, 2014 Posted July 21, 2014 I think one of the main problems with the second wave is that all the sets seemed like sets you would make after you get most of the main scenes out of the way. True, I hope that is a good sign, they split the original second wave en left the best part for last as the new third wave. But it could be the other way around though.. Why did we not get a nice Gondor set? Why the Pirate Ship? Well one reason is quite frankly, because Helms Deep was not a great seller. It's a fantastic set, but let's be honest with ourselves. Show of hands who here bought it at deep discount? Do you understand why? They chose to do the Pirate ship because the big "Castle Wall battle" didn't go over well, and it was probably hoped that the Ship would attract a broader audience. Cross pollinating some with the pirates fans and such. Is there any proof that Helms Deep wasn't a great seller? It seemed to do well in my area (Belgium). Although I have to admit I got from Amazon at a big discount. Quote
Faefrost Posted July 21, 2014 Posted July 21, 2014 True, I hope that is a good sign, they split the original second wave en left the best part for last as the new third wave. But it could be the other way around though.. Is there any proof that Helms Deep wasn't a great seller? It seemed to do well in my area (Belgium). Although I have to admit I got from Amazon at a big discount. The only proof we have is anecdotal. But it did seem to get cleared out at deep deep discounts by all of the major sellers. For a longer than normal period of time. Honestly just from eyeballing it, it felt like it was a shelf warmer at list price. One of the biggest problems with the LotR line has honestly been its overall earth tones and subdued color scheme. Yeah it is great for us AFOL's, but the sets were very drab and unattractive to the bulk of the child audience. Quote
Risgrynsgrot Posted July 21, 2014 Posted July 21, 2014 Which again brings us to the (atleast from how I see it) the main problem with LOTR - lack of tie-ins to get kids interested. LOTR hasn't really got anything other than the movies, which most kids probably won't watch on the first hand. The Hobbit sets are just slightly better, since they're in the cinemas right now. Still, they lack the vast amount of tie-ins Star Wars and Superheroes got, the most important really, cartoons. Quote
Deathleech Posted July 21, 2014 Posted July 21, 2014 (edited) Kids prefer minifig collecting. Individual named figs with their own stories. Yeah some will army build. But it has to be something that really kind of resonates with them. Storm Troopers and Clone Troopers do that really well. Whereas for LotR the kid appeal is less in the vast battles and in particular orcs, than it is the individual character fights. Yeah the big battles like Gondor are awe inspiring. But it's not something kids will attempt to build en mass. And even if a small number of AZfOls are buying 10-20 apiece, it still doesn't come close to touching the potential of the kid market. But that's the thing, I am not even talking about army buiilding with kids. I am just talking about kids buying their standard one set whether it be an army builder or a set that has all named characters. If a kid buys one Council of Elrond or one Uruk-hai Army it doesn't really matter to Lego, they are making the same profit from either set? But with the Uruk-hai Army there is the potential to sell dozens to each AFOL where as Council of Elrond very few people are going to buy more than one regardless if they are a child or adult. The only way army builders can hurt Lego is if kids don't buy any at all cause they don't include any main characters. This might be true in rare cases, but I think most kids want SOME bad guys for their good guys to fight? They don't need huge armies, but a small handful of baddies? Seeing as UHA is the cheapest way to get Uruk-hai (outside the limited available polybag) and the ONLY way to get Eomer or a Rohan Soldier I think gives it enough appeal to justify kids buying it. The only proof we have is anecdotal. But it did seem to get cleared out at deep deep discounts by all of the major sellers. For a longer than normal period of time. Honestly just from eyeballing it, it felt like it was a shelf warmer at list price. That seems to be the case with ALL the expensive sets though, regardless of theme? Once you get into the $100+ territory you are really alienating most children. Those are big birthday or Christmas presents, not something a kid can walk into a store and buy on impulse. I see tons of different big sets warming shelves until they are heavily discounted. At any rate I coulda swore Helm's Deep was a top seller on Amazon for at least a little while when it first came out. Edited July 21, 2014 by Deathleech Quote
Blakstone Posted July 21, 2014 Posted July 21, 2014 I also think there is a difference between what army building kids want to do and what parents will let them do. I recall arguing with Mom how I needed another Stormtrooper when I already had one. Since my hobby calls for me to spend time in toy aisles, I hear the same arguments playing out today. I think the excitement wore off by the second wave. There was no Target exclusive or a drive to get every Fellowship member out. The drive to get all the new molds for the Orthanc required Wizard Battle (Sauramon's hair), Black Gate (eagle), and possibly Council of Elrond (for those arches). The Pirate Ambush was a bit random but spoke to LEGO's desire to draw more people to the wave. If they had the mold budget a Gondor battle pack would have done better than the ship. Quote
AFOLguy1970 Posted July 22, 2014 Posted July 22, 2014 Ahh, the good old Pirate Ship. If this is the end of the line, this set will take a lot of the heat from LOTR fans from stealing that crucial Gondor slot even if it is not the case. Mouth of Sauron will be accused of bumping out the far more important Witch King as far as use of molds are concerned. The ship really puzzles me. Of course kids like pirate ships, BUT as mentioned it is a $100 set. I see plenty of these sitting on shelves just waiting for the clearance sticker reduction to come. Don't get me wrong, it is a nice set and I bought one, but it was a poor choice in my opinion, especially if they planned on this being the last wave. Maybe kids love pirate ships, but far fewer of them have the $100 bucks to spend. AFOLS are more likely to have the money, but they might not have as much interest. So, you have group of people who would like to have the ship, but do not have the money. Then, you have a group that can afford it, but would rather invest in other things. End result: lots of Pirate Ships on the shelves. Walmart, Target, Toys R Us, and the Lego Store all have them in large quantities. I still think wave 2 was not planned as the last wave. It just does not make sense. The scenes depicted seem to be on the periphery of the major scenes not covered. The pirate ship literally(no bad guys). AFOLS wonder whey Gimli and his launcher were deemed to be necessary. It seems like Lego tried to make everyone happy with that set. Then you have the Wizard Battle, which is essentially duplicated in the Tower of Orthanc, making it rather redundant. It is hard to believe sets like Minas Tirith, Osgiliath, Khazad Dum, Mount Doom, and the Witch King are going to be left out. Quote
Ardelon Posted July 22, 2014 Posted July 22, 2014 One of the biggest problems with the LotR line has honestly been its overall earth tones and subdued color scheme. Yeah it is great for us AFOL's, but the sets were very drab and unattractive to the bulk of the child audience. Are you sure this is such a big deal for kids? I know even as a kid I wished for more earth tones (not least for army MOCs) rather than have everything built with gaudy primary colors. Its not really overwhelming evidence, but still. Quote
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