Marvel Cinematic Universe

[Tanma]

Bit early to say that at the moment, seeing how Peter hasn't really had a chance to make the choice. Also, how easy/difficult would it be for the switcheroo to take place, what with contracts and all? Don't get me wrong, I would have a thousand nerdgasms if he showed up in the MCU, I'm just uncertain as to just how feasible it is.

Oh I realize it is unlikely, I just am being hopeful.

[The Legonater]

Yeah, I'm not at all looking forward to the Fantastic Four reboot at this point. The first one didn't do very good, and I feel this one will do even worse...

[Faefrost]

Bit early to say that at the moment, seeing how Peter hasn't really had a chance to make the choice. Also, how easy/difficult would it be for the switcheroo to take place, what with contracts and all? Don't get me wrong, I would have a thousand nerdgasms if he showed up in the MCU, I'm just uncertain as to just how feasible it is.

Nah! Much like the Hulk, if Marvel was to regain Spider-man at this oint they really would not need to reboot anything. Just throw him up on screen in a familiar situation. Who here doesn't know the basics of Spider-Man and his origin at this point? Radioactive Spider? Check. "With Great Power comes Great Responsibility"? Check. Blue and Red pajamas? Check. OK we're good to go. You could swap out actors, villains, whatever. If you were to simply throw a Peter Parker of the right age and feel into an Avengers movie wearing a proper looking Spider-Man outfit. Nobody would blink.

[Ultron]

Yeah, I'm not at all looking forward to the Fantastic Four reboot at this point. The first one didn't do very good, and I feel this one will do even worse...

Maybe after it fails they'll sell the rights back to marvel?

[Sam892]

I hope another reboot isn't on the cards. TAS would work brilliantly as part of the MCU. there are not real contradictions (like between the MCU and X-Men / FF universe).

Edit 1: Has Ghost Rider already reverted?

Edit 2: Also isn't Namor now the only Marvel property not owned by Marvel or Fox? (It's owned by Universal I believe).

Edit 3: Doesn't Universal also own Hulk? If so how can he be part of the MCU?

Edit 4: Who owns Punisher?

1. Yes Ghost Rider went back to Marvel last year however Marvel can't talk about it until a year later.

2. Your forgetting that SONY own Spider-man, however Namor is one if the few Heroes owned by another company. Also your correct he's owned by universal.

3. Universal still owns Hulk, they were struggling to develop a movie after the 2003 hulk film. However Marvel stepped in and struck a deal where Marvel would make a film ( Incredible Hulk 2008 ) and could use him in the MCU. In return universal kept the merchandise rights to the Hulk.

4. As of right now Marvel own the Punisher, and have been shutting down fan produced work of the Punisher over the last year. My guess is that he will be introduced to the MCU in a TV series in the near future.

[The_Chosen_1]

^ I'm pretty sure Marvel Studios now has sole film rights for the Hulk.

[The Brigante]

Nah! Much like the Hulk, if Marvel was to regain Spider-man at this oint they really would not need to reboot anything. Just throw him up on screen in a familiar situation. Who here doesn't know the basics of Spider-Man and his origin at this point? Radioactive Spider? Check. "With Great Power comes Great Responsibility"? Check. Blue and Red pajamas? Check. OK we're good to go. You could swap out actors, villains, whatever. If you were to simply throw a Peter Parker of the right age and feel into an Avengers movie wearing a proper looking Spider-Man outfit. Nobody would blink.

I was trying to get at how feasible it would be to get the current movies in the MCU canon, and have Garfield be the MCU Spider-Man. I get that they could easily 'do a Hulk', I was more wondering whether Marvel could simply take over production of the ASM film series or not.

[Mr Man]

I was trying to get at how feasible it would be to get the current movies in the MCU canon, and have Garfield be the MCU Spider-Man. I get that they could easily 'do a Hulk', I was more wondering whether Marvel could simply take over production of the ASM film series or not.

Well look a the 'super hero' bits of TAS compared with the MCU:

Spider-Man, Green Goblin, Lizard- All three derive from genetic engineering (the last two using some form of serum) We know from TIH that lots of people were trying to replicate the SSS from CA.

Rhino- Power armour Stark, Vanko, Hammer, Stain, Falcon everyone and their mother is wearing it.

Electro- I have no idea here but he could be a 'gifted' like 'Scorch' or Mike Peterson.

Battle of New York- As pointed out the cranes suggest this.

Oscorp Tower- commonly known that it was meant to be in the Avengers (and Stark Tower in TAS), but both fell through for unspecified reasons.

Why no mention of an alien invasion in TAS- Same reason as why there is hardly any difference to the lives of people in IM3 or Thor 2.

[BrickG]

I really don't care about this effort to make everything in the Marvel and DC universes within the same universe (TV and movie wise, not counting toons).

I mean IMO it just lowers the bar. The quality is just meh. Like Star Wars. The second you went to the expanded universe from the OT you went into mediocre (ignoring the bad prequels ;p).

Marvel has what? A handful of movies, most of which are average with a few great ones. Then mix that with the incredibly "meh" Agents of S.H.I.E.L.D. and future TV ventures which I doubt will be great... and you've just got yourself a diluted universe.

This is why the d00d wanted the "Dark Knight" universe to NOT be connected to Superman and the rest of the future movies. It dilutes the universe. The more movies you have the more lack of excellence you have. It drags everything down. You could have a GREAT movie happen within the same universe as mediocre and bad movies and it does affect the great one and makes it less great.

I figure this is also why successful writers who write one great movie then refuse a second. They care about the quality falling, dirtying something already very good.

I'm just going off on this because I'm sick of "meh" after being given so many truly great shows like Breaking Bad, Lost (unless you didn't like the ending, still it was a great series), House of Cards, etc. We are certainly capable of a higher standard of TV show. Yet IMO Marvel and DC just don't seem interested in doing truly great TV shows. And it frustrates me because there's no reason they can't make a truly great thing out of some of the IPs they have.

I'm sick of B movies and B series. I want a TV series and a universe I struggle with the wait for. But nobody is pissing their pants in anticipation for SHIELD like they did Lost. The stories of Arrow pale in quality compared to the stories of Breaking Bad. And the mediocrity is really bringing Marvel's whole TV/Movie universe down. And I really hope Arrow isn't in the same universe as Superman. You'd think they'd freakin' MENTION it before now, it seems so forced...

One thing that really doesn't help is their lack of ability to mix the movies and tv enough. They can't afford the bigger stars. Coulson is good but you can't expect a universe to be fully patched together with a single guy (and that first episode lady who is also minor). With zero chance of Iron Man or Thor or Captain America or ANY of the big hitters coming it weakens it even more.

[Darth Lurtz]

Both Arrow and Agents of Shield are network shows, meaning that they have to appeal to a wider audience than shows like Breaking Bad. I also feel a bit dirty hearing Lost be put on a pedestal next to Breaking Bad.

[Mr Man]

and you've just got yourself a diluted universe.

No you don't. Like everything else in life 'if you don't like, don't watch'. The good films aren't somehow reduced in quality by the not as good ones (there are no bad MCU films even AoS is getting better), and like SW PT (which are good) they aren't necessary to watch them all.

[BrickG]

Heck yeah they are. The Star Wars prequels sullied Star Wars's good name. You never used to hear anything that negative about Star Wars. It was almost universally accepted as awesome (some people had issues with the Ewoks and C3P0 and stuff but it was minor compared to the talk of the prequels). Now half the time you hear talk of Star Wars you hear about the prequels and the negativity that surrounds them. They've literally damaged the OT mainly in the aspect of Vader's origins being a psychopathic whiny little idiot but there are tons of lore reason (see RedLetterMedia).

It's not as simple as "don't watch".

[Tanma]

You are physically incapable of being positive aren't you?

[BrickG]

I'm positive all the time. It's just there's nothing to be positive about when it comes to the prequel trilogy. :(

[Ultron]

Heck yeah they are. The Star Wars prequels sullied Star Wars's good name. You never used to hear anything that negative about Star Wars. It was almost universally accepted as awesome (some people had issues with the Ewoks and C3P0 and stuff but it was minor compared to the talk of the prequels). Now half the time you hear talk of Star Wars you hear about the prequels and the negativity that surrounds them. They've literally damaged the OT mainly in the aspect of Vader's origins being a psychopathic whiny little idiot but there are tons of lore reason (see RedLetterMedia).

It's not as simple as "don't watch".

Yes it is. If you don't like it, don't tune in to it every week...no one is forcing you to do so. Some people out there enjoy AoS, myself included. Not everyone thinks it's a bad show. (It's really not). Same goes with star wars. If you only like the original trilogy, don't watch the prequels! It's simple as that. The prequels haven't "damaged" the original trilogy at all. Vader wasn't a big baby in them before the prequels came out, so he isn't magically one afterwards either.

[Tanma]

Yeah the prequels aren't good, but the thing about the Prequel trilogy is that it is dominate to the original trilogy. It retconned and changed adventures that had already happened. It produced the backstory of major characters, which directly changed interpretations.

But Agents of SHIELD is subordinate to the movies. You don't have to watch AoS to learn anything important about Tony Stark, or Captain America. Instead, the elements of the movies influence AoS. Centipede runs off Extremis, the Super Soldier Serum, and gamma radiation. But in Thor 2 for instance, Coulson doesn't appear, even though he was resurrected. SHIELD actually can be ignored, because so far it changes nothing major about the MCU characters or plots.

Now, this might change. I doubt there will be major changes, but with Sif appearing soon in AoS we might learn more about her, which could alter perceptions of her character in the movies. However, I am hopeful. The last episode of AoS was solid, it may have found its groove. And if so, they might handle Sif well.

Edited February 9, 2014 by Tanma

[BrickG]

I look at the franchise as a whole, at least in their respective branches of universes. The quality of some can affect the quality of some others. It's not that simple. Saying it is isn't going to make it so. The prequels provide motivation and story behind Anakin and the story is an overarching one. It does provide links to the other trilogy. It does affect it because you look at the characters and plots as a whole now. And you can't "unsee" it or anything so simply not watching one aspect again won't make the rest suddenly "heal".

Again, RedLetterMedia does a great job at pointing out the issues. I'd suggest you watch his reviews on all the Star Wars movies. But the fact is these things in the universe touch everything else in the universe. When the prequels supplied the backstory of Vader it weakened him as a whole. His motivations were dumb. The view of Vader has been affected like when he killed the kids it affects his character more than the destruction of Alderaan. Blablabla details in RedLetterMedia (he can put it a lot better than I can). You cannot simply refuse to watch a segment, especially if you've already seen it. The view of the characters and plot are forever changed.

Now the OT are still my favorite movies. However the prequels certainly changed the views for a lot of us on some of the plot and characters. Vader was a story about redemption. After the prequels... no... he's a crazy cry baby psycho. I really can't feel for Vader anymore. He wasn't manipulated by the emperor. He was just crazy and dumb and a dick. His backstory is laughable and simple minded. Vader for some people has been damaged and it's not as easy as ignoring movies when standing right by those movies are official other movies.

Also I didn't say AoS was a bad show. You clearly didn't read my entire post. I said it was average. I watch it. It's got a few good episodes. But mostly average. I'm sick of average stuff :P. That includes Ep II and III which weren't TERRIBAD just not Legendary to the general populace (Ep I was the only bad one, thanks Jar Jar).

Yeah the prequels aren't good, but the thing about the Prequel trilogy is that it is dominate to the original trilogy. It retconned and changed adventures that had already happened. It produced the backstory of major characters, which directly changed interpretations.

But Agents of SHIELD is subordinate to the movies. You don't have to watch AoS to learn anything important about Tony Stark, or Captain America. Instead, the elements of the movies influence AoS. Centipede runs off Extremis, the Super Soldier Serum, and gamma radiation. But in Thor 2 for instance, Coulson doesn't appear, even though he was resurrected. SHIELD actually can be ignored, because so far it changes nothing major about the MCU characters or plots.

Now, this might change. I doubt there will be major changes, but with Sif appearing soon in AoS we might learn more about her, which could alter perceptions of her character in the movies. However, I am hopeful. The last episode of AoS was solid, it may have found its groove. And if so, they might handle Sif well.

Well that's a fair point about Agents of SHIELD but it's also a problem too. Due to the actors being too expensive we'll never see Nick Fury, Iron Man, Captain America, Thor, Hulk or even the 2nd tiered Hawkeye and Black Widow (almost 1st tier at this point due to that movie).

It feels kind of forced. Like some of these situations SOMEONE from that group would be involved in, eventually. It definitely feels like there's a hole there.

Ideally we'd get at least an episode or a 2-parter with one of the big guns but again, they're simply too expensive so the likelyhood is slim. At best maybe Iron Man but never showing his face (maaaybe they could afford his VOICE) but then the special effects are probably out of their budget too.

Maybe it's easier to ignore because of it but I'd rather they had cameo episodes because doing stuff like showing a still of Nick Fury for a second is NOT ENOUGH!

I'll be watching SHIELD and hoping season 2 gets better. Some shows take a bit of time to find their running legs.

Edited February 9, 2014 by BrickG

[Tanma]

I do admit the Avengers probably would have responded to some of their adventures, but a lot of them are too small scale for the Avengers to notice. Scorch was just a street performer in Hong Kong, he wasn't going to be missed. Maybe Hawkeye or Black Widow could have gone, but they already sent a SHIELD team to deal with it. Their first adventure did make news, so it could have been noticed, but Iron Man had quit, Bruce doesn't like fighting, Thor was elsewhere, and the rest were working for SHIELD. Thor couldn't ever get involved until the tie-in episode, since that was when he could travel freely to Earth and back.

Now, that episode is the biggest offender for me. I admit, with the news coverage of that cult using the Staff, someone should have noticed. However, it has been said behind the scene that there is a reason why Cap and SHIELD didn't help Iron Man and Thor in their new movies. That reason might be why the Avengers haven't been helping with these threats.

[Ultron]

I look at the franchise as a whole, at least in their respective branches of universes. The quality of some can affect the quality of some others. It's not that simple. Saying it is isn't going to make it so. The prequels provide motivation and story behind Anakin and the story is an overarching one. It does provide links to the other trilogy. It does affect it because you look at the characters and plots as a whole now. And you can't "unsee" it or anything so simply not watching one aspect again won't make the rest suddenly "heal".

Again, RedLetterMedia does a great job at pointing out the issues. I'd suggest you watch his reviews on all the Star Wars movies. But the fact is these things in the universe touch everything else in the universe. When the prequels supplied the backstory of Vader it weakened him as a whole. His motivations were dumb. The view of Vader has been affected like when he killed the kids it affects his character more than the destruction of Alderaan. Blablabla details in RedLetterMedia (he can put it a lot better than I can). You cannot simply refuse to watch a segment, especially if you've already seen it. The view of the characters and plot are forever changed.

Now the OT are still my favorite movies. However the prequels certainly changed the views for a lot of us on some of the plot and characters. Vader was a story about redemption. After the prequels... no... he's a crazy cry baby psycho. I really can't feel for Vader anymore. He wasn't manipulated by the emperor. He was just crazy and dumb and a dick. His backstory is laughable and simple minded. Vader for some people has been damaged and it's not as easy as ignoring movies when standing right by those movies are official other movies.

I mean to be honest, Darth Vader was never that fantastic to begin with. He looks awesome and sounds awesome and has a great deal of presence on screen. However, he's a terrible fighter and sith lord. He literally just swings his arms around. He doesn't do anything in the movies other than strangle some people and throw the emperor down the reactor shaft and that didn't even require any skills. He can't even move fast and would've lost quickly in a fight against any capable jedi. Same with Luke. He's a terrible jedi. The only thing he does is guide the missile down the reactor shaft and blow up the death star. Don't get me wrong, I love darth vader (NOT ANAKIN), star wars, and the original trilogy but the characters weren't perfect to begin with.

I do admit the Avengers probably would have responded to some of their adventures, but a lot of them are too small scale for the Avengers to notice. Scorch was just a street performer in Hong Kong, he wasn't going to be missed. Maybe Hawkeye or Black Widow could have gone, but they already sent a SHIELD team to deal with it. Their first adventure did make news, so it could have been noticed, but Iron Man had quit, Bruce doesn't like fighting, Thor was elsewhere, and the rest were working for SHIELD. Thor couldn't ever get involved until the tie-in episode, since that was when he could travel freely to Earth and back.

Now, that episode is the biggest offender for me. I admit, with the news coverage of that cult using the Staff, someone should have noticed. However, it has been said behind the scene that there is a reason why Cap and SHIELD didn't help Iron Man and Thor in their new movies. That reason might be why the Avengers haven't been helping with these threats.

Actually Thor is on Earth now (it was revealed in the credits of thor 2 that he's back on earth) so he could technically appear whenever he wants.

[Faefrost]

Also I didn't say AoS was a bad show. You clearly didn't read my entire post. I said it was average. I watch it. It's got a few good episodes. But mostly average. I'm sick of average stuff :P. That includes Ep II and III which weren't TERRIBAD just not Legendary to the general populace (Ep I was the only bad one, thanks Jar Jar).

Well that's a fair point about Agents of SHIELD but it's also a problem too. Due to the actors being too expensive we'll never see Nick Fury, Iron Man, Captain America, Thor, Hulk or even the 2nd tiered Hawkeye and Black Widow (almost 1st tier at this point due to that movie).

It feels kind of forced. Like some of these situations SOMEONE from that group would be involved in, eventually. It definitely feels like there's a hole there.

Umm a few minir points. Possibly where reality may in some ways clash with your world view.

1. Would this be a bad time to mention that Nick Fury, Samuel L Jackson has shown up in AoS?

2. You have the Star Wars films horribly backwards. Episode I is the one that tends to be underrated and bombarded with misplaced outrage. It actually isn't a bad movie. Just a very disappointing Star Wars movie. Episode II is the "teribad" one as at fails at every objective test for a good movie irregardless of its Star Wars pedigree. The low point being "sand". Episode III is generally moderately well regarded except for the ending. In which a ton of poorly explained things happen because they have to have happened to support the OT, and in spite of no valid lead up in the overall plot. (Order 66, Padme's death from "despair" or whatever, Anakin turning child killer. Etc.)

Comparing comics to the SW EU is a poor comparison. In comics the shared universe is where the source material has lived and thrived. It is what has kept the stories and the characters rich and vibrant. It isn't something tacked on as an afterthought. And comic book movies aren't the only movies made that exist in such shared universes. Kevin Smith? Quentin Tarantino? There are a few others as well. Is their storytelling diluted or made worse as a result?

And I really can't understand what exactly you are complaining about regarding AoS and Arrow. In AoS you complain that it doesn't use anything from the movies, which takes away from it. Whereas Arrow does virtually everything you complain AoS doesn't do, by being deeply invested in the overall DC universe with tons of cameos crossovers, named characters, etc. and you bemoan that it would make any connection to the movies. OMG what if Superman shows up? As opposed to Flash showing up? Or Deathstroke the Terminator? Or Deadshot or Ras Al Ghul?

If you can't grasp shared universes and the various intricacies, and occasional contradictions and sometimes compartmentalizations that come along with them, then I would suggest that you most likely are not the target consumer that comic books and comic based movies are made for. There's plenty of other stuff out there to enjoy. But please do not begrudge those of us that grew up and enjoy the broader concept the 6 movies we have finally gotten after almost 50 years. We've tried it your way. We got one good movie out of it. The Dark Knight. And about 100+ hours of formula drek that has all the same problems as the shared universe stuff, while not even vaguely resembling our beloved source properties because some Hollywood types must remake everything into their own personal vision, to the complete and utter detriment of the property.

[Tanma]

Actually Thor is on Earth now (it was revealed in the credits of thor 2 that he's back on earth) so he could technically appear whenever he wants.

Wait, you mean he is living on Earth now? I thought that scene meant he was just going to visit like everyday, but still live in Asgard.

...Okay, I can work with this. I am still using a mix of the original and final ending, I could add in an element of frequently traveling to Earth. Maybe to check up on SHIELD and to keep the world safe, and to talk to Jane. Right, that can work.

[Ultron]

Wait, you mean he is living on Earth now? I thought that scene meant he was just going to visit like everyday, but still live in Asgard.

...Okay, I can work with this. I am still using a mix of the original and final ending, I could add in an element of frequently traveling to Earth. Maybe to check up on SHIELD and to keep the world safe, and to talk to Jane. Right, that can work.

Idk, I took it as Thor was on Earth now. That way he's already on Earth so they don't have to waste time bringing him back here for avengers 2.

[Tanma]

The only thing I am worried about Thor being on Earth is that Cap 2 takes place about a year after Thor 2, and some of the battles look really public. Like with all the Helicarriers. So it may be hard to explain why Thor doesn't swoop over and find out what is wrong.

[Ultron]

The only thing I am worried about Thor being on Earth is that Cap 2 takes place about a year after Thor 2, and some of the battles look really public. Like with all the Helicarriers. So it may be hard to explain why Thor doesn't swoop over and find out what is wrong.

Yeah that's true. But I doubt Thor would have the time to hear about the battle on TV, fly across the atlantic ocean (He's in london, right?) all the way over to D.C. by the time that big and epic battle is happening. It'd probably be over by the time he could get there.

[BrickG]

Umm a few minir points. Possibly where reality may in some ways clash with your world view.

1. Would this be a bad time to mention that Nick Fury, Samuel L Jackson has shown up in AoS?

Sorry I wasn't clear enough. I meant more of an appearance like an episode somewhat centered around them or just something more significant than the 20 seconds Jackson was on.