DarkShadow73 Posted July 3, 2012 Posted July 3, 2012 (edited) Ok, on the other topic, I took all of your replies in hand and the surgery required took some time, but I did fix the changeover catch issue. All functions run flawlessly, except for one, and I am not a newbie Technic builder, I've been building a long, long time. The turntable swiveling...either it goes jerky, almost agonizingly slow, or it just stops completely. The tracking with this model has been brought up here a few times and is subpar, but I never really paid a LOT attention, except I just bought another one from TRU a couple months ago, and I would hate to think I paid $200 to maybe build the 'b' model only. I have 2 of them built, and as this is likely the most challenging, well at least as of 2010, model yet to come out, I went slowly and meticulously on each build, modifying both with mods I picked up here, mostly bucket attachments, butt sag, etc. I pulled off the side panel where the gearing for this function runs and it is rather confusing as unless I completely tear it down, but from the 8-tooth gray gear turning the turntable underneath I can track it all the way back to the changeover catch. Everything seems fine, and since this is happening to both of my 8043's built the exact same way (I turned both battery boxes on and used the same remote just to see what happened and both reacted in the same fashion. In case you are wondering, I did change the batteries in both battery boxes and in both remotes, even tried the Energizer 2300maH (think I got that right, the silver/green ones) rechargeables with more power, supposedly, and no change. I'm really getting quite disheartened with this item, but I've got 2 of them built, and more sealed for resale. Once again I did check as good as I could with the limited space and almost zero tolerance to get to the shaft assemblies and gears to see if they were too tight or loose, all seemed ok. So, once again I ask the group, any ideas on this issue? I know I'm sounding like a downer of this model, but first the clutching problem almost made me want to give up on them, luckily that was fixed by helpful members, but not I need some ideas on if this happens to others as well? I can't imagine I have a weak motor for this function, I really have hardly used either of them except for shelf display, but being full RC, it is no 8294. That model actually works fine and I modded it for turntable turns and it works flawlessly, but I am about ready to smash $400 worth of Excavator against the floor or wall in frustration. Oh and I did clean any dust and cobwebs from the units just in case of hanging a gear up, but I would imagine this isn't the problem anyway... Thanks and I appreciate any experience or fixes with this function, Eric Edited July 3, 2012 by TechnicFreak Quote
DLuders Posted July 3, 2012 Posted July 3, 2012 (edited) @ TechnicFreak: I built Jurgen Krooshoop's Ultimate 8043 (instead of the original 8043 A-Model), and use the same Eveready Energizer 2300 mAh rechargeable batteries as you do. I noted that the treads turn better in one direction than the other, but did not have a problem with the other functions. Note that rechargeable batteries do not produce the same Voltage as new Alkaline batteries. If you use six AA Alkaline batteries, you may get better performance. Perhaps the new Power Functions L-Motors would provide the needed torque to turn the various functions better. Edited July 3, 2012 by DLuders Quote
Jetro Posted July 3, 2012 Posted July 3, 2012 Sounds like something is not connected properly, although doing it twice is quite a coincidence. Do the other functions in the model work well? If it is just the turntable, is there any chance the turntable itself is not properly assembled (the top and bottom clicked together)? Quote
Choops Posted July 3, 2012 Posted July 3, 2012 This was part of the service pack that was shipped to owners of the early models. This supports the 8 tooth pinion gear which turns the turntable. The gear would slide down and cause the problem you are having. Make sure you have this addition. Steve Quote
Wiseman_2 Posted July 3, 2012 Posted July 3, 2012 This was part of the service pack that was shipped to owners of the early models. This supports the 8 tooth pinion gear which turns the turntable. The gear would slide down and cause the problem you are having. Make sure you have this addition. Steve Actually, that only adds support for the gear driving the left (or right) track. The 8 tooth gear that turns the superstructure remains unsupported from below. As such, I would suspect it may have slipped off a little; also, you mentioned that you've built it with mods? I haven't myself and it works fine on the original version, perhaps the added weight from the mods (if any) affects the rotation? If it has slipped off, one solution could be to replace the regular 3L axle it sits on with a 3L with stop, though I'm not sure if the extra stud will catch on anything. And for what it's worth, I haven't had any problems with rotation on mine, or indeed with any of the functions (after the service pack release at any rate, for which I only had an issue with the track gear slipping ). Quote
grum64 Posted July 3, 2012 Posted July 3, 2012 (edited) I'm really sorry if this comes across wrong, it's meant in all sincerity, but I built this model by mouth and have experienced none of the reported problems. I built it incorporating the Lego supplied service pack parts & everything runs smoothly. It's used, under my supervision, every time Jake's here and 'never misses a beat'. He uses it for scooping up sand, gravel, Lego, rice you name it, he's tried moving it. He drives it across grass, compacted soil & carpets. No problems. I'm not questioning anyone's building ability, heaven forbid, I haven't the ability or experience to do that, I think that maybe there's a few 'rogue sets' out there. Edited July 3, 2012 by grum64 Quote
DarkShadow73 Posted July 4, 2012 Author Posted July 4, 2012 Shoot, I can't figure out what might be wrong, its just like the rotation just turns jerkily and then most times just stops altogether while holding the stick forward or backward. I can see the IR receiver light blinking and actually I did put straight (good quality Energizer) AA's in the battery box and the rechargeables DLuders was referring to in the other battery box. I have changed the rechargeables back and forth to straight alkalines, no difference. Believe me, I have checked the 8 tooth gear that turns the turntable and it is aligned with the turntable, sometimes it slips a bit downwards, seems like the old gray 8 tooth gears were more tight on an axle, but maybe I'm wrong. But, beyond that I can see whole string of assemblies from the motor up to the worm gear and all seems correctly aligned, I wonder if I tightened the assemblies too tight maybe? I know from the fronts of all Technic instruction booklets not to 'jam' gears between liftarms and such, but less than totally dismantling and reassembling one of them, seems to be an impossibility to disconnect that function without major disassembly, which really I probably wouldn't remember what went where once I got to what I needed to. The changeover catch totally engages into the dk gray 16 tooth gear at the rear, so I don't think that's the problem. It would seem to me that having 2 of them do the same thing, it couldn't be the m-motor that drives this function. On DLuders comment, it does track better on one side than the other with alkalines in the battery box, but that isn't much of a problem. I simply am at wit's end. The mods I did was not the ultimate one, just the mod for the smaller excavator bucket and the mod to on the undercarriage to reduce butt sagging, didn't do the whole remote control thing, don't think it would help this issue anyway, its just a more sleeker remote control without all the switching between functions. And to the other commenters I didn't even begin building it until I had the upgrade kit in October 2010. I almost started, but then saw the issues with the LA's especially, so both excavators have the updated kits installed, and all other functions on both work fine, even with one being exposed to cobwebs and dust for almost a year. And to Grum64, no offense whatsoever taken, I have built every Technic large set since the 8448 Supercar and never had any real big problems, except for the restringing of the 8053 Mobile Crane as I tried to reel it back in (PF applied), string kept going off the reel and getting all tangled, and with the 8295, which was way too underpowered with PF applied. I bought this model because after the RC Bulldozer which worked flawlessly for me, I was enthralled with RC Technic and I have always had an interest in Excavators in general. I love the more compact 8294 with the motor and led light kit installed and the mods I did to make it RC, only thing I couldn't figure out was how to install another motor for the rotation of the superstructure, it is too small, I had a lot of wires and motors all over the place and couldn't find a good place for another one, so guess you couldn't fully RC, but it tracks, turns and the shovel functions work great. All in all, I guess I didn't get any real answers here, but I do thank all of you who commented, maybe somebody else will pop up who had a similar experience with the rotation, but as fast as topics go down the list, it might get lost in a day or two. Guess after that, I'll just have to tear one of them down and reassemble. I might be able to get away with just unpinning the boom functions and starting from scratch. Thanks, Eric and thanks for any comments from here on out that might help me or similar experiences. Quote
Nazgarot Posted July 4, 2012 Posted July 4, 2012 Just to eliminate another possible cause for the problem you should try to run an M motor from the same PF receiver output to test it. If it works ok, I would try tearing down the mechanism part by part, starting with the 8 tooth gear. Then test it for each part you remove to find the cause... It would be nice if you posted any results you obtain, as there might be others with the same problem. Mine worked fine without any mods, but I still modded it a bit. I would also suggest you try building it without mods, then implement them one by one, to see if it might be a problem with one of the mods... I wish you the best of luck in solving the problem. -ED- Quote
bord4kop Posted July 4, 2012 Posted July 4, 2012 (edited) I build the 8043 at least 9 times. Where I only used the new pieces from the box the very 1st time. All the other builds I used the -fairly used- pieces in my collection. Also different motors and receivers. I never had any problem with it. Well that is to say, I did, but when it ran not quite as it should .. this was due to my own faults/mistakes in the building process. Well. This is a fairly long way to suggest that you perhaps did make a mistake somewhere.. Not to criticise, as you say you are an advanced builder, but.. well erm..the times my models where faulty, I done it myself It could also be one of your motors/receivers is buggy, but this can be tested easily enough. Edited July 4, 2012 by bord4kop Quote
DarkShadow73 Posted July 4, 2012 Author Posted July 4, 2012 Thanks guys - I will try to tear it down and see where I might have gone wrong...no criticism taken the wrong way, I needed feedback and I got it...I'll let you know what happens... Quote
DarkShadow73 Posted July 9, 2012 Author Posted July 9, 2012 I did actually disassemble one of my 8043's with different IR receivers and M-motors, but I STILL can't get the rotation of the superstructure to turn without turning slowly or just stopping. I did replace the batteries in both the battery box and remotes with Energizer Alkalines, but no difference. I then put in Energizer 2300 MaH rechargebles, but still no difference. One note when I hold the model up in the air buy the tracks, and I hit the remote for turning, it works fine, but then when I put it on a surface, tried by rubber work tables, on my garage cement floor, and on carpet inside, still same problem. This is really frustrating, and I did buy one of later releases, so this is not the original release that had the problems with the LA's and added on the pieces to the base. Every other function works fine. I can see the 8-tooth gear aligned with the turntable, and carefully built the gearing going all the way back to the motor. I know many of you offered up solutions, but nothing is working, like I said though when I hold the base of the model in my hand it rotates freely with no issues. Quote
allanp Posted July 9, 2012 Posted July 9, 2012 (edited) Is there any chance you can post a photo(s) with a clear view of the swivel mechanism? And perhaps another picture of it whilst it is trying to turn? Edited July 9, 2012 by allanp Quote
Alasdair Ryan Posted July 9, 2012 Posted July 9, 2012 It sounds like you might have geared it up instead of down.......check this........ Quote
DarkShadow73 Posted July 10, 2012 Author Posted July 10, 2012 (edited) Is there any chance you can post a photo(s) with a clear view of the swivel mechanism? And perhaps another picture of it whilst it is trying to turn? @allanp - that would be an almost impossible task as most of the gearing is hidden, the only clear view I could give is the 8-tooth gear riding on the turntable. If I take the fairing assembly apart on that side, all you can really see is the worm gear with the 7L axle and full bush on the end of it that connects to the gray 16-tooth gear. As far as watching it full action on, I would need a camcorder or some other device I suppose, a digital camera or taking pics with my cell wouldn't probably be too clear. My iPod does a streaming video option, I might try that, but I would imagine the pics might be grainy, but I'll try. It sounds like you might have geared it up instead of down.......check this........ @Alasdair - well you might be right, I admit I'm not always perfect when assembling and this particular set is a challenge no doubt. I suppose I could try again, but up real late a couple nights trying to reassemble it. I really thought it would work, but the thing I don't understand is how the turntable turns freely when holding it up in the air just balancing it under the tracks but when I set it back down, it almost like its too heavy to turn itself without acting all jerky and stopping. Thanks again one and all for your replies, I will try the pic/video option allanp suggested first, its not a long assembly, but disassembly is almost as hard as the 8455, takes a long time with nice raw thumbs and forefingers afterwards... Edited July 10, 2012 by TechnicFreak Quote
skylinedan Posted July 11, 2012 Posted July 11, 2012 (edited) That thing is a bit tail heavy, sounds to me like when its off the ground the weight doesnt have any effect on it, but soon as you sit it back down the weight throws it off, and you have the drag problem your experiencing. Off in left field though, I built the B model of it tonight and it even has a few problems, must be the set, LOL. Dan Edited July 11, 2012 by skylinedan Quote
bord4kop Posted July 11, 2012 Posted July 11, 2012 (edited) Does it have the turntable the right way up? It needs to be like so: Dark side on bottom, light side up.. Edited July 11, 2012 by bord4kop Quote
skppo Posted July 11, 2012 Posted July 11, 2012 Do you have other turntables available? The one you are using might be faulty. My first turntable i got from an NXT set was broken and i thougt thats what the turntables are like. Only when i got a second one i realized it was super bad, it should rotate freely for a second after you give it a spin. My faulty one barely turns under a load with all the friction. Maybe i should tear it open and see what's wrong. Quote
allanp Posted July 11, 2012 Posted July 11, 2012 Yes I meant that you should remove the fairing so we can see more clearly. A video would be great but I meant that you could take another still picture whilst it was trying to turn to see if things were moving out on alignment. Quote
bb15080 Posted July 12, 2012 Posted July 12, 2012 just rebuild the 8043 but no problems with turning maybe you just a faulty turning table Quote
DarkShadow73 Posted July 16, 2012 Author Posted July 16, 2012 Does it have the turntable the right way up? It needs to be like so: Dark side on bottom, light side up.. Holy crap, that might the problem, my turntable has the black facing upwards...only thing is another breakdown, but maybe it will be easy enough just to pull the gray pins with bushes to remove the superstructure and hope it will be an easy reversal...thanks, hopefully this will cure the problem... Do you have other turntables available? The one you are using might be faulty. My first turntable i got from an NXT set was broken and i thougt thats what the turntables are like. Only when i got a second one i realized it was super bad, it should rotate freely for a second after you give it a spin. My faulty one barely turns under a load with all the friction. Maybe i should tear it open and see what's wrong. I've got tons of turntables in my spare parts, might just as well change it out too as well as making sure the gray side is facing up. Guess any experienced Technic builder can get things wrong...I'll be the first to admit I'm not perfect...thanks for all the advice...I will try both of these seemingly easily fixes and let you all know... Eric Quote
skylinedan Posted July 18, 2012 Posted July 18, 2012 Holy crap, that might the problem, my turntable has the black facing upwards...only thing is another breakdown, but maybe it will be easy enough just to pull the gray pins with bushes to remove the superstructure and hope it will be an easy reversal...thanks, hopefully this will cure the problem... I've got tons of turntables in my spare parts, might just as well change it out too as well as making sure the gray side is facing up. Guess any experienced Technic builder can get things wrong...I'll be the first to admit I'm not perfect...thanks for all the advice...I will try both of these seemingly easily fixes and let you all know... Eric " Tons of turn tables " Damn thats a lot of turns tables, LOL. Sorry just had to do it. Dan Quote
skylinedan Posted July 18, 2012 Posted July 18, 2012 Holy crap, that might the problem, my turntable has the black facing upwards...only thing is another breakdown, but maybe it will be easy enough just to pull the gray pins with bushes to remove the superstructure and hope it will be an easy reversal...thanks, hopefully this will cure the problem... I've got tons of turntables in my spare parts, might just as well change it out too as well as making sure the gray side is facing up. Guess any experienced Technic builder can get things wrong...I'll be the first to admit I'm not perfect...thanks for all the advice...I will try both of these seemingly easily fixes and let you all know... Eric " Tons of turn tables " Damn thats a lot of turns tables, LOL. Sorry just had to do it. Dan Quote
skylinedan Posted July 18, 2012 Posted July 18, 2012 Holy crap, that might the problem, my turntable has the black facing upwards...only thing is another breakdown, but maybe it will be easy enough just to pull the gray pins with bushes to remove the superstructure and hope it will be an easy reversal...thanks, hopefully this will cure the problem... I've got tons of turntables in my spare parts, might just as well change it out too as well as making sure the gray side is facing up. Guess any experienced Technic builder can get things wrong...I'll be the first to admit I'm not perfect...thanks for all the advice...I will try both of these seemingly easily fixes and let you all know... Eric " Tons of turn tables " Damn thats a lot of turns tables, LOL. Sorry just had to do it. Dan Quote
DarkShadow73 Posted July 18, 2012 Author Posted July 18, 2012 (edited) Alright Dan - you got me, lol, I don't have tons, maybe about a dozen or so... I like a bit humor, breaks up the real serious stuff...I was getting about ready to smash this thing into 1300+ pcs last week, or however many it has, I think its 1200-1300...think you might have hit reply a couple too many times... Eric Edited July 18, 2012 by TechnicFreak Quote
pluto7443 Posted July 18, 2012 Posted July 18, 2012 Alright Dan - you got me, lol, I don't have tons, maybe about a dozen or so... I like a bit humor, breaks up the real serious stuff...I was getting about ready to smash this thing into 1300+ pcs last week, or however many it has, I think its 1200-1300...think you might have hit reply a couple too many times... Eric 1123, to be exact. Quote
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.