over used heads

[lewrex]

why does lego reuse heads so often especially the 2006 Bruce Wayne and J. Jonah Jameson? i've found 14 different minifigures with the Bruce Wayne head, i don't have anything against it, i love when they do it, but with some they could use different, more appropriate heads i mean does Christian Bale look like Tom

Hiddleston. This isn't a rant more an intresting topic.

[CorneliusMurdock]

why does lego reuse heads so often especially the 2006 Bruce Wayne and J. Jonah Jameson? i've found 14 different minifigures with the Bruce Wayne head, i don't have anything against it, i love when they do it, but with some they could use different, more appropriate heads i mean does Christian Bale look like Tom

Hiddleston. This isn't a rant more an intresting topic.

Thanks for pointing out that this isn't a rant. I might have gotten confused.

Reusing prints is a way for TLG to save money. If a head print is available already that will work for a certain character, they'll reuse it. The Jameson head is a good example. Jameson looks enough like the airplane mechanic form Raiders of the Lost Ark that there wasn't a need to completely redesign a head print. I do agree that some of their prints look really similar in the Super Hero line. That may be the style of whichever designer they have doing the work for it, though.

Try using capitol letters and proper punctuation in the future, please.

[Ralph]

Pretty simply really, and just as CorneliusMurdock said... to save money.

Ralph

[JackJonespaw]

It's just to save money, like they've said above. I would love to see more different minifig heads, but beggars can't be choosers. Although I really do hate that Bruce Wayne '06 head.

[Faefrost]

It's a little more complicated than "to save money" but that is the short quick and understandable answer. The long answer is it both reduces production time and tooling costs by using an already existing asset, while at the same time further amortizing the creation costs of that asset over more sets.

Think about the production chain just for a minifig head.

A new face probably takes about 2 days minimum of total art time. ( more if licensed because of approval processes). Then you need prototype testing, even for heads. To see how the designs will look on actual plastic. Do color shifts occur. How much work to get it to match or line up with other elements? Then production tooling needs to be set up and once again tested and reviewed. This has gotten much easier now that they can print directly on the plastic, rather than old school coloring tech that required tooling masks. But it still takes time and resources. So it can take some time to ramp up production on a new fig face. Granted it has probably gone down from months to weeks in the past few years.

Compare that with simply using a head they either already have a bin full of in the warehouse, or you can make more of by running an already established and validated batch job.

For every art element they can reuse, hey probably shave at least two weeks off of the overall production schedule. This may not seem like a lot to us, but it can be huge in a production environment with a lot of jobs queued up. Some creative recycling or reuse can often greatly aid in insuring that every set in a series hits it's targeted street dates. And can reflect the differences in set costs. ( note sets like Jabba's Palace or the Dino sets. Very Expensive because of the custom art and fig work they require.)

[Bilbo Baggins]

As it's been said before they are reused to save money.

[LEGO Family]

It's a little more complicated than "to save money".

Definately the explanation i would go for.

Also, i would rather see the LEGO company use their resources on totally new features such as bricks, equipment for minfigs, new torsoes than simply making an eye look diffrent on an already compatible head for a fig.

Great explanation there Faefrost.

[Matn]

I really don't mind the fact that the head prints are the same of some figures, or in case of the new Super Heroes theme some figure look very alike. They are still awesome designs. For me, the figures don't have to resemble the actor. As long as you can recognize the character it is based off, I'm happy and I think children also think like that. With the release of all these great figures the last year I don't see any reasons to complain.

[deskp]

I dont think resuing head btween high profile characthers is ok. do whatever with henchmen and randoms, but the main ones should have their own design.

[andhe]

I dont think reusing head between high profile characters is ok. do whatever with henchmen and randoms, but the main ones should have their own design.

I agree. As a castle collector I find it odd that they used the same face for the Crownie Gold Knight and MMV Blacksmith (in the Fantasy Era) and also the Dragon Wizard (in the Kingdoms Era) as well as the Admiral in the Pirates theme.

Whilst I can accept reusing heads across different themes, and can accept generic soldiers having the same face, I really feel like 'character' figures should be distinct. This is especially true in licensed themes (and only seems to have become an issue in the current Superheroes line to my knowledge).

I appreciate that you can obviously change the heads, or that children will create their own 'characters' anyway, but it's just a little bit disappointing as a collector to see the same head reused for central figures.

[fred67]

I dont think resuing head btween high profile characthers is ok. do whatever with henchmen and randoms, but the main ones should have their own design.

Agree.

I also have a problem trying to find "every day" faces when MOCing. They're all either happy as a clam, scared, or gritting teeth like they're about to enter battle... no normal "here I am at work" faces... and especially not enough female heads.

EDIT: I also disagree about adding that much production time, especially in the case of non-licensed themes. Computers are controlling the printing - they don't have "re-tool" for a different face... they may have to stop production, enter new designs into the computer, and start up again. If they've got things set up correctly it should only take a matter of minutes, production wise. Yes, of course, there's art time, too. I really doubt it takes more than a couple of hours, and I'm sure the artists are able to test their designs either on some local printing device, or a good enough simulation on screen.

I won't debate it's to save money, and I won't debate that TLG tries to save every little fraction they can... they have some of the highest profit margins in the business for a reason.

Edited May 22, 2012 by fred67

[sharky]

Actually, it's because Bruce Wayne gets around a lot and is everywhere. We should play the 6 degrees of Bruce Wayne game sometime.

[HawkLord]

Personally, I'm fine with the re-use of faces.

I think with the limited style and design of Legos, there's only so many options available. Gandalf will look like Dumbledore and Santa Claus, because there's really only so many ways they can make a "beard elderly man with hat" in the Lego style. I think the same is true with just the faces, as well. Realistically, how many different lines or accents can they put on a face to make it look that different?

Back in the early 90s, when I collected Legos (and was alot younger), my Aunt gave me the Knight's Stronghold set, which featured a fort/castle section and prison. The box pictures showed the different angles of the set and in one scene there were the two guards leading the prisoner into the cell. My Aunt pointed out how silly it looked that the prisoner was smiling while being walked into the cell by armed guards. I might sound like some old-timer here, but I think that helps show just how far along Lego has come with faces.

[natesroom]

It's a little more complicated than "to save money" but that is the short quick and understandable answer. The long answer is it both reduces production time and tooling costs by using an already existing asset, while at the same time further amortizing the creation costs of that asset over more sets.

Think about the production chain just for a minifig head.

A new face probably takes about 2 days minimum of total art time. ( more if licensed because of approval processes). Then you need prototype testing, even for heads. To see how the designs will look on actual plastic. Do color shifts occur. How much work to get it to match or line up with other elements? Then production tooling needs to be set up and once again tested and reviewed. This has gotten much easier now that they can print directly on the plastic, rather than old school coloring tech that required tooling masks. But it still takes time and resources. So it can take some time to ramp up production on a new fig face. Granted it has probably gone down from months to weeks in the past few years.

Compare that with simply using a head they either already have a bin full of in the warehouse, or you can make more of by running an already established and validated batch job.

For every art element they can reuse, hey probably shave at least two weeks off of the overall production schedule. This may not seem like a lot to us, but it can be huge in a production environment with a lot of jobs queued up. Some creative recycling or reuse can often greatly aid in insuring that every set in a series hits it's targeted street dates. And can reflect the differences in set costs. ( note sets like Jabba's Palace or the Dino sets. Very Expensive because of the custom art and fig work they require.)

I wish i could give you rep or props this was a great answer to the question as compared to the other correct answers "It saves money"

Agree.

I also have a problem trying to find "every day" faces when MOCing. They're all either happy as a clam, scared, or gritting teeth like they're about to enter battle... no normal "here I am at work" faces... and especially not enough female heads.

EDIT: I also disagree about adding that much production time, especially in the case of non-licensed themes. Computers are controlling the printing - they don't have "re-tool" for a different face... they may have to stop production, enter new designs into the computer, and start up again. If they've got things set up correctly it should only take a matter of minutes, production wise. Yes, of course, there's art time, too. I really doubt it takes more than a couple of hours, and I'm sure the artists are able to test their designs either on some local printing device, or a good enough simulation on screen.

I won't debate it's to save money, and I won't debate that TLG tries to save every little fraction they can... they have some of the highest profit margins in the business for a reason.

I disagree, i've worked in the pre-press industry and with Flexo machines and Dye Sub Machines and latex printers. Yes in a small 3-8 man shop i could technically go back to the computer open up illustrator or photoshop and enter the new PMS color and switch it out. and then reprint.

In a larger company if you run a job and 300-3000 pieces into it you realize that something was off. You have to stop and issue a changeorder (or whatever they call it) document the Loss, fill out paperwork (or enter it) I'm not the graphics person since i just run the machine, send a note or an email to the production department have them fix whatever issue it is, redocument the changes, update the artwork on the workorder, print out a new ticket (or electronic ticket)... etc. Sometimes production atually has to send it to the graphics department (they are different) and they have to correct the file because the production person wasnt trained to edit and correct a gradient mesh or a clipping mask taht they couldnt figure it out (not that LEGO uses all those exact items)

Then they.... blah blah.

See how much more involved just explaining the process was then your "Computers are controlling the printing - they don't have "re-tool" for a different face... they may have to stop production, enter new designs into the computer, and start up again. If they've got things set up correctly it should only take a matter of minutes, production wise. Yes, of course, there's art time, too. I really doubt it takes more than a couple of hours, and I'm sure the artists are able to test their designs either on some local printing device, or a good enough simulation on screen."

Edited May 22, 2012 by natesroom

[Rook]

Oh look no reference images. Now we have to spend time looking up to confirm what you’re talking about…

[______]

Hey, if it works, no point making a new head.

[Faefrost]

EDIT: I also disagree about adding that much production time, especially in the case of non-licensed themes. Computers are controlling the printing - they don't have "re-tool" for a different face... they may have to stop production, enter new designs into the computer, and start up again. If they've got things set up correctly it should only take a matter of minutes, production wise. Yes, of course, there's art time, too. I really doubt it takes more than a couple of hours, and I'm sure the artists are able to test their designs either on some local printing device, or a good enough simulation on screen.

I won't debate it's to save money, and I won't debate that TLG tries to save every little fraction they can... they have some of the highest profit margins in the business for a reason.

The computer element is what reduces that time from weeks to days. But it is still not as simple as creating a new design and sending it to the production run. You can easily do what you describe once a design has been tested and validated. So once it is already on the server and has been tested and approved, they can generate it with a few mouse clicks.

However even though modern technology makes the process faster, there is still a lot of testing and validation that has to go on. Otherwise we would see a lot more cases like the Batman poly bag, where the face and cowl don't line up right. Someone made a change to the figure for that low end poly bag set without full or proper validation. In theory whenever they create a new face it will require test runs, it will require approval from several sources ( including the licensing people or third party for licensed stuff). All of this no longer takes weeks and weeks like it used to. But 7 to 14 days is probably about right.

As far as local or small scale testing. Sure they do it. They use that to minimize any test time on production facilities. But they still need a small run on the production systems to validate. That test run then needs to be put through QA validation. Any company that goes straight from computer screen to a full load of production plastic is inviting a bad end. Plus Lego is an ISO9001 certified company. This means they have rigid production and quality control standards, with sign off at each stage whenever a change is made.

Whereas for already approved and validated print designs that they have sitting on the server? They just click go and they are in production. It is always more involved to do something new, or for the first time.

Business and production process is not the same thing as technological capabilities.

Edited May 22, 2012 by Faefrost

[fred67]

I didn't say it didn't take time, but it doesn't take weeks of someone's time... they can test on local machines without disrupting production before doing a test production run, and really the point is that even if it takes two weeks to go through the process, it's not like people are hard at work on just that one thing, it's because they have to wait for the opportunity to test things.

It's not like a designer designs a face and then sits there for a week doing nothing else while waiting for it to be tested, something like that spends most of it's time in a queue.

Edited May 23, 2012 by fred67

[Vindicare]

I don't see what the big deal is. A lot of us remember when minifigs first appeared in sets. They were all the same-kids, adults, male, female. Of course they're going to not make a new face for every character they come out, that would be way too excessive. Luckily, the heads aren't glued on, so you can always change them if it bothers you that much.

I'll admit, it's a bit weird, especially in Licensed, since the different characters who have been portrayed in the movie(or comic) don't look the same.