Steampunk Mafia: Conclusion

[Hinckley]

I actually tried to do a variation of this in Bedtime Story, and screwed up epically. Granted, one of the people I was planning this with was Scum (), but even so the people I told did nothing with the information (except for Dakar A), which led to the Town loss. Ultimately, the "Town Leader" meta-role is limited by the activity of the people they talk to; if all of the loyal Townies stay silent and don't DO anything with the suspicions you told them, then the Town is screwed, regardless of how accurate your suspicions are or how trustworthy you've made yourself.

Then again, maybe I'm just doing it wrong.

Well, I only say three because Town should've thought there were 2 Scum left and the level of play is higher than Mafia School, so that (potentially) one Townie should fight the Scum if they're relaying the info incorrectly. With Bedtime Story, there probably wasn't enough experience or maybe just pariticipation level for your protection measurement to pay off. Luck of the draw. I don't say it's fool proof, but you do all you can.

[fhomess]

I really enjoyed following along in this game except for the fact that Hinck hosts his pictures at a site I can't access from work, so I only got the visual jokes in the evenings. Curse you, for this!

So, I do agree that the conversion was a bit much for balance. I still think this game was balanced, even with the conversion. It wasn't meant to be a standard conversion. The Scum couldn't choose someone to convert and they didn't know it was possible. It was meant as a deterrent for Pandora to be cautious about her role. And it's a mini-mason Action, it has to have a balance in it. If it's not used right, it hurts the Town. If it's used right, it really helps the Town. Pandora said to me by PM she didn't think it was possible to use it the way I intended it so she just used it to investigate Rick, basically, and inadvertently converted herself. So I would never include a role like that again in this small of a setup. I should've just used Lovers, like I usually do. You know you trust each other, but you die together.

I agree that the game was balanced at the start, but I also think the design was swingy. Pandora's conversion/mason role meant that either the scum would get a big advantage, or the town would get a nice head start. Personally, I would've done a similar thing and tried to use it early on someone I thought was likely to be town. From Pandora's perspective, there's no disincentive to use the role early because the victory condition changes if converted. I'd argue that there's great incentive to use it night 1 so that you don't spend too long working against scum and then all of a sudden having to work with them or too long in the dark about a potential mason friend.

The fact that the town had several roles that were passive meant that depending on whether or not they triggered, you'd get swing, too. The role cop for scum was an anti-town role that triggered, whereas the bomb/PGO was a pro-town role that didn't. It felt a bit like the town didn't have an opportunity to take control of their own destiny because they were busy trying to figure out what they really had, and by then, it was too late.

Swingy isn't necessarily a bad thing, it made for a very interesting game, but it can be frustrating to watch when it feels like one side is really struggling compared to the other. As an observer, I was really frustrated to see the tide turn from Pandora to JB, as it just struck me that lynching Pandora should've been the next step. Impossible to say what would've happened if that had gone through, and I had no idea the scum team had upped their number to 4 at that point.

The setting was wonderful and the concept of having everyone's true identity hidden was a fun twist.

Oh, and I loved the Jedi Temple reference!

Edited May 21, 2012 by fhomess

[Hinckley]

I agree that the game was balanced at the start, but I also think the design was swingy. Pandora's conversion/mason role meant that either the scum would get a big advantage, or the town would get a nice head start. Personally, I would've done a similar thing and tried to use it early on someone I thought was likely to be town. From Pandora's perspective, there's no disincentive to use the role early because the victory condition changes if converted. I'd argue that there's great incentive to use it night 1 so that you don't spend too long working against scum and then all of a sudden having to work with them or too long in the dark about a potential mason friend.

This is a really good point and one I kind of knew, but the idea in my head trumped logical thought at the time. This is exactly what Pandora said she was thinking with it. Use it early to gain the advantage either way. I wish the Town would've used their x-shots in a similar way. I was surprised some people were trying to spread them out towards the end of the game instead of using them early and often to gain as much knowledge as they could. When the investigator was killed I did add a shot to the inventor role and added the invention of an orb that could be used to investigate. Zepher never used that third shot and opted to stay home on Night Four instead. That was a real surprise to me. What was the point in waiting, I wondered...

The fact that the town had several roles that were passive meant that depending on whether or not they triggered, you'd get swing, too. The role cop for scum was an anti-town role that triggered, whereas the bomb/PGO was a pro-town role that didn't. It felt a bit like the town didn't have an opportunity to take control of their own destiny because they were busy trying to figure out what they really had, and by then, it was too late.

I think Pandora's role balanced only itself but tipped the game in that swingy way you're referencing. It's impossible to keep the balance day to day. The balance swinging fully to one side is what a win is, after all. So, as a host, you'll see that swing and have to remind yourself what you've put in place to potentially balance that. The three officers balanced on their own. One was pro-Town, one was anti-town, one could be bumble into one way or the other.

but it can be frustrating to watch when it feels like one side is really struggling compared to the other. As an observer, I was really frustrated to see the tide turn from Pandora to JB, as it just struck me that lynching Pandora should've been the next step. Impossible to say what would've happened if that had gone through, and I had no idea the scum team had upped their number to 4 at that point.

It's aggravating for the host, too. You don't want to see your players make a mistake like that, but the Scum was definitely doing their job. I really think the Town let the convictiction run away with them. They could've stopped it at a tie, or convicted someone else, to test the theories a different way. To me, it did seem rather wreckless for the Town to jump on the JimB bandwagon. I was really hoping the Scum (sorry, Scum) would lose another member that day. As a host, I really like the balance to be visible. But, I hope this shows that it was the Scum doing their job and not any sort of imbalance that caused the Town loss. An investigator and protector working together would've been a ridiculously powerful tool for the Scum to be up against. For proof of that, see Isla Paradisa. The Queen never did get to use her watcher action and the inventor never handed out a magnifying glass to watch with. A watcher really would've helped the Town in this situation.

Oh, and I loved the Jedi Temple reference!

The what now? I don't remember referencing that. I referenced Empire...

[Cecilie]

The Queen never did get to use her watcher action and the inventor never handed out a magnifying glass to watch with. A watcher really would've helped the Town in this situation.

A watcher was what we feared the most, so it's funny that they had the possibility to use it, but never did

[Bob]

I think losing Shadows was the biggest blow to me, mostly because I relied on his observations because usually my feelings are either wrong or stupid. My erratic behaviour change on Day One attracted so much odd attention and reflecting I see why. I went from odd slapstick actions to a sudden let's get down to business stance rather quickly. I don't know why MetroiD insisted I was scum even over the course of several days. Cecile was among those I was curious of, specifically of her willingness to follow MetroiD and also follow Rick, who was in addition scum. I'm not sure why I didn't say anything and that was certainly a mistake.

Player Feedback: Bob Bob Bob. May I hand out some tough love and say that I've heard you complain about your own performance after every game in recent memory? So... what have you done to try and improve that? I think it's one thing if you're visibly trying but quotes like this:make me think that you aren't even paying attention. Here's my honest advice for you: next time you play a game, take notes. Just pay close attention to everything that's said and write it down and keep checking and adding to your notes. Don't skim the day threads. I'd be really disappointed to hear that you skimmed these day threads which were probably the shortest of any Mafia game I've seen on EB. The game wasn't lost until everyone jumped on the Zepher bandwagon and your reason for voting for Zepher was a very disappointing "this is the way the tide is turning." The votes is a powerful tool and should not be placed just because a bandwagon has formed. And why were you asking for clarification about your role in character in thread? When I realized that you were actually confused about your "job" I wondered why you wouldn't just PM me first instead of going on about it in the game thread? You did PM me about it, but not until you had gone on about it in thread. I wish I had nicer feedback for you, but I really think it's time you stepped up your game.

It is time I stepped up my game, but I do read the game threads. I'll admit occasionally that there's times when I could read things closer, but it's disappointing to me when I completely misread something and end up doing something completely wrong. I don't really think that I've complained about my performance after every game though. I was proud of my final stand at the end of Yakuza, and had no regrets during Baritones III unless I have memory problems and put down that I did. IMHOTEP is a game that I have serious regrets about, mostly because I didn't know what Badboy was doing during Day One and I couldn't grasp all the day one events.

I like the whole 12 player set up, however my only regret is that I didn't insert myself with more alliances.

[Cecilie]

Cecile was among those I was curious of, specifically of her willingness to follow MetroiD and also follow Rick, who was in addition scum.

When did I follow Rick? I must have missed that...

[Hinckley]

I think losing Shadows was the biggest blow to me, mostly because I relied on his observations because usually my feelings are either wrong or stupid. My erratic behaviour change on Day One attracted so much odd attention and reflecting I see why. I went from odd slapstick actions to a sudden let's get down to business stance rather quickly. I don't know why MetroiD insisted I was scum even over the course of several days. Cecile was among those I was curious of, specifically of her willingness to follow MetroiD and also follow Rick, who was in addition scum. I'm not sure why I didn't say anything and that was certainly a mistake.

I'm glad you are open to the feedback. OK, so not every game, but I've heard it from you. I was very happy with your stand at the end of IMHOTEP as well. And you did find the right people to trust in Baritones III. Sorry that I over-simplified. The only retraction I would have to my feedback was that you were given a hard time on Day One and that would be hard to come back from. Why can everyone joke but CallMePie and then why is Bob drawn and quartered for pointing out that Charles was joking. This is in my notes, which I still intend to post, but why was the fun suddenly crashed by one simple (and slightly obvious, because why would Scum so blatantly search for Royal Family, literally by checking under everyone's undies? ) joke? And then, yes, MetroiD, in all of his odd flailiness, did keep accusing you.

I guess this advice would work for you or Pie, don't take first day accusations personally. Just keep playing the game. Pie seemed to be taken off his idea to play aggressively because he was almost lynched and you were put off of aligning with MetroiD because he kept trying to lynch you. What else could you do at that point? But my point is, you can keep trying to form alliances and strategize even if another player or a good number of players are giving you a hard time. Look at MetroiD. He was getting lynched and he was still trying to get all of his info out there and get something started.

But, like you said, it was more the loss of Shadows than being the target of MetroiD's lynch rope and so my advice may have little bearing on your actual game. My advice is what it is so please take it with a grain of salt if it doesn't apply. I'm always more than happy to have you in my games. I'm glad to hear you say you want to step things up.

[JimBee]

But what did you leave JimB to work with? "Shadows said so." You can't fault a town for not following your instructions (I use the term loosely) after you die when you don't tell them anything.

I would just like to point out, in Shadows' defense, that I pretty much acted on my own will after he died. I guess it was my own fault for coming forward with such little to go on, but really what were we supposed to wait for?

I didn't even know JimB was family or I would have told him not to do anything risky

Actually as Hinck pointed out my aggressive behavior seemed to throw the scum off, and it was just lucky that I was the Prince.

Then again, I guess Rick had all of us pegged on Day 1... please tell us how!

I know. I was thinking, "Look at his profile! He didn't even login! Didn't defend himself... :hmpf:"

And even if I had logged on you would assume I would've at least said something. Bah.

One other thing I'd like to say is about this kind of setup for mafia. I really do like this style that was used in Imhotep as well, where the scum have specific targets. I think it really adds a balancing factor to the game, but I think that this game highlighted one "flaw": that the scum can still outnumber town without winning. I call it a flaw because while in normal circumstances the scum would already win, in this setup the town are left to go insane or be manipulated.

[Hinckley]

but I think that this game highlighted one "flaw": that the scum can still outnumber town without winning. I call it a flaw because while in normal circumstances the scum would already win, in this setup the town are left to go insane or be manipulated.

The Scum could cause a tie vote without winning, but they would've won if they outnumbered you. The game could win in a draw, which would really suck. I suppose if there was one Scum left and one Royal Family, the night phase would end with the Scum killing whatever royal family was left. Unless the vengeful spirit killed the scum at the same time, which would give the Scum a win, essentially. Unless the remaining Royal family could block the kill, but I think the remaining Scum would have a block and a kill.

I guess the question is do I allow the first to a tie to win, which I don't really like or do I make a tie a draw and we continue to the next day? You guys still could've won it. You being lynched go it to a point where there was really almost no turning back. For the Town to win at that point there would've had to have been a tie vote and then Bob would've had to been triggered at night. No, you couldn't block the PGO. But, the day you were lynched it was still 4 Town : 3 Scum, so had you been around to defend yourself you may have been able to turn it back around or at least convince Bob and Pie that it was Pandora who was lying and not make it possible for Zepher to be lynched on Day Five.

I suppose there we could blame the site outage for the game extension, which allowed just enough time for the votes to be overturned before you could notice.

[Zepher]

Zepher never used that third shot and opted to stay home on Night Four instead. That was a real surprise to me. What was the point in waiting, I wondered...

YES. That was my other fumble of the game. I don't recall my reasoning for that. It dawned on me in the morning of Day 5 that it was a really really dumb thing to do.

[CorneliusMurdock]

I would just like to point out, in Shadows' defense, that I pretty much acted on my own will after he died. I guess it was my own fault for coming forward with such little to go on, but really what were we supposed to wait for?

Actually as Hinck pointed out my aggressive behavior seemed to throw the scum off, and it was just lucky that I was the Prince.

Defending Shadows?! You must be scum!

Seriously, though, I don't think you did anything wrong with confronting Pandora. I know we were worried about it. Really, it was Pandora not giving up that got you killed. Even seeing it happen from the scum side, I'm amazed at how she pulled it off. If you guys had been even slightly more organized at the end, you might have realized what was going on.

After we killed Shadows, no one was talking to any of us. There was a while that we thought Shadows had passed on his info and you guys were being sneaky about it. We had to be cautious because any one of us could have had evidence against us at that point. Cecilie could have been watched killing. I could have been outed as the other "protector". And you guys had already latched on to Pandora being scum.

When it turned out you guys had nothing and that you weren't really communicating outside the day thread either, we pressed our advantage and caused confusion.

[Hinckley]

After we killed Shadows, no one was talking to any of us. There was a while that we thought Shadows had passed on his info and you guys were being sneaky about it. We had to be cautious because any one of us could have had evidence against us at that point. Cecilie could have been watched killing. I could have been outed as the other "protector". And you guys had already latched on to Pandora being scum.

While it does seem like nobody was talking, it seems a lot like people were kind of touching base with each other. Charles tried to protect Bess and Zerard gave Charles an invention, so their instincts were right, they just didn't get far enough. I think there was time to make those connections, but the concept may have seemed a little daunting.

[Hinckley]

Night One

Town

Zepher gives CorneliusMurdock a chain

Result: Successful

Cuthber Neal Memlow (CorneliusMurdock) has received the anonymous gift of a chain, shaped like a fish, topped with a nice little bow.

For CorneliusMurdock: You have received a gift! Someone has left you a chain (shaped like a cartoon fish and topped with a nice little bow). You can use this chain to block another player. It is one-shot use only.

Shadows investigates Rick

Result: Successful

Using your magic glass toaster, you investigate Ruben Castleton (Rick). The toaster tells you that Ruben is a Kensmy Assassin. And then it pops up a nice bagel for you.

MetroiD protects Rick

Result: Successful

Ruben Castleton wears the cloak well, despite predictions that it would go with a tricorn.

Pandora switches with Rick

Result: Successful

And yet, at the same time, you're a Kensmy Assassin now.

Scum

Cecilie kills Zepher Unsuccessful

Result: Unsuccessful

Due to the conversion of Polly Altamont (Pandora) you were not able to complete your action.

Rick blocks JimB Successful

Result: Successful

You wait outside Jane's door all night, ready to yank at least one pair of her goggles if she tries to get out of bed. (This is worded to clue Rick in to the fact that JimB didn't use an Action that night)

Notes:

Bob doesn't seem to know how to play for the team. (I don't remember why I wrote this)

If Charles would’ve been lynched, it would’ve been much better for the Town. Charles is the vigilante, but only in death. Who’s hosting this game?

Why is Bob the one who everyone turned off the joking and turned on? Past games? Cliques? Strategies? First voted off the island on All-Star Survivor? What’s up?

Day One, Scum PM. Rick suggests that Draggy, Zepher and JimButcher are the royal family. And he’s right.

Holy shit, is Zepher sending anagrams that he’s the king? A gun in a pocket (Answer: No, but it is an anagram for "Apace unto King." and some other things. )

Night Two

Town

Shadows investigates Meahon Doughal

Result: Unsuccessful (blocked by CorneliusMurdock)

You attempt to investigate Meahon Doughal (MetroiD) but you are unable to leave your quarters. The door just won’t open.

MetroiD protects Cecilie Unsuccessful (blocked by Pandora)

Result: As you sneak out to protect Clemence Blanchfield, you are overcome with a feeling of comfort and warmth and sleep through the night in the hallway outside of your quarters.

Scum

Pandora blocks MetroiD

Result: Successful

As Meahon tries to leave his quarters, you wrap him up in your bwankie. Meahon Doughal sleeps soundly. The blanket keeps him very warm and snuggly.

Cornelius Murdock uses his chain to block Shadows

Result: Successful

You use your chain and lock Shanalon Dairne in her quarters for the night. She tries to get out of her room but can’t.

Cecilie kills Dragonator

Result: Succesful

Hey stabby-lou, you’ve just murdered Darberis Gibbon!

Notes:

Oh boy, I’m going to give Shadows a bunch of fake deaths in the mid-day break.

This is exciting. It’s fun to see Rick in his first Scum role. Shadows can be so infuriating. I hope to see Rick keep his cool and plant some doubt with the rest of the Royal Court. I wonder if it will be a quick conviction. I hope not.

The Scum is playing it smart, being cautious with their role claims. It’s interesting to see MetroiD trusting Cecilie while Cornelius ponders claiming protector to Shadows. If Cecilie talks to MetroiD just a little more, she’ll find out he’s the protector.

It’s a shame the Scum was blocked on their first night. They had targeted the King.

Shadows can be infuriating. What a prick.

Cecilie suggest killing Bob. That would be really bad for the Scum team.

They’re talking about killing Draggy or MetroiD, leaning towards Draggy. That would be the Queen. I wonder if getting Draggy right would lead them back to Zepher. Draggy is not likely to be protected. We’ll see for sure.

If they’re smart, Cornelius will block Shadows and Pandora will block MetroiD. The Town only has a two-shot blocker and I’m not sure he’s confident enough to use his action quite yet.

The conversion sets the Scum team ahead but has left them a day behind as well.

Rick figures out that the persistent roles are not the Royal Family as they coincide with the jobs of the alter egos. That’s where the Scum have the balance of not having their role cop. Will they figure out the Jester is the bomb/PGO, though? Or that the King is the Inventor? Probably not. And this really only gets Shadows and MetroiD off their lists as they are the only two with persistent Night Actions. What a fun game! I think it does have a nice balance.

Night Three

Town

Shadows investigates Pandora

Unsuccessful (Shadows is dead.)

You are unable to investigate Polly Altamont (Pandora) or do anything again…ever.

JimButcher blocks Pandora

Result: Unsuccessful (JimButcher is blocked by Pandora)

Your action is unsuccessful.

Zepher gives CallMePieOrDie a lock

Result: Successful

You produce a lock and paint a pretty cartoon face on it and leave it under Charles Pleasance’s Pillow. You now have one more invention remaining and can now choose from one extra invention: an orb. With the orb, the recipient can investigate one other player and learn if they are a member of the Royal Court or a Kensmy Assassin.

For Charles Pleasance: In the morning you wake up to find a lump under your pillow. It is a lock with a goofy face painted on it The key goes in the mouth. You can use the lock as a one-shot protection action. You can lock your door or the door of another passenger’s quarters for one night, ensuring that nobody can get in to harm you or them.

Scum

Polly Altamont (Pandora)

Action: Barton Fink Unsuccessful (Blocked by JimButcher)

Result: You are unable to block Jane Phoebe Barnell (JimButcher)

Clemence Blanchfield (Cecilie)

Action: Raggedy Andy Successful

Result: Uh-oh Little Red Stabbing Hood. You eviscerate Shanalon Dairne (Shadows)! Bad little Scummy-poo. Will you stab your Granny next??

Notes:

Town leaders consistently have the problem of thinking that if someone hasn’t claimed to them, they are scared little Scummies. I made the mistake in IMHOTEP, def made it in Yakuza and Shadows makes it here.

Leaving Shadows and Metroid out of the night pics could’ve been a mistake on my part. The Scum are certainly analyzing it and getting a great benefit from it. I did do it because they were blocked. I should mix it up tonight so they don’t get comfortable. They’re right in analyzing the mechanics and the egos having a meaning, but they’re reading so much into it they’re finding help where I never intended it. I worded that weird. Most of the night pictures are totally for fun...and to megabluck with the players. Hopefully, they've learned to mostly ignore me at this point.

Why is everyone always so suspicious of Pandora? Once again, they’re attributing her Town actions to being Scum…

Night Four

Town

Zepher stays in

CallMePie stays in

Scum

Polly Altamont (Pandora)

Action: Barton Fink Successful

Result: You wait outside Zerard's door all night, ready to tackle him with the bwankie if he emerges.

Clemence Blanchfield (Cecilie)

Action: Raggedy Andy Successful

Result: You successfully give your friend Cuthber Neal Memlow (Cornelius Murdock) a chain.

Cuthber Neal Memlow (CorneliusMurdock)

Action: JUY098OL Successful

Result: You successfully murder Fairon Garzi (Fugazi). As he drops over the edge of the ship and into the clouds, he shouts "But I'm not Royal Family! And neither is Charles Pleasance (CallMePieOrDie)!" You also receive a surprise in your bed. The unusually bumpy pillow seems to be the result of someone shoving a chain in there. You can use the chain to block one other player on one night. (One-shot block)

Notes:

I stopped taking notes. Sorry. But, I think all of my thoughts on this day have been rolled into the post-game discussion.

Night Five

Cecilie kills Bob

CorneliusMurdock blocks Bob

Pandora blocks CallMePieOrDie

CallMePieOrDie protects Bob

[CMP]

Shoot, I made the right call on who to protect on the last night again? I really should've guessed my role better. I kind of wanted to be active Day One, but not to the point of being lynched... The closest guess I had was pretty much what Bob's turned out to be. At least I got the overall 'vengeance kill' part right.

This was a really good time. I can honestly say I've actually gotten some insight on how to play a better townie. Kinda sucks, the one game I was supposed to get lynched in.

Edited May 22, 2012 by CallMePie

[Hinckley]

Shoot, I made the right call on who to protect on the last night again? I really should've guessed my role better. I kind of wanted to be active Day One, but not to the point of being lynched... The closest guess I had was pretty much what Bob's turned out to be. At least I got the overall 'vengeance kill' part right.

This was a really good time. I can honestly say I've actually gotten some insight on how to play a better townie. Kinda sucks, the one game I was supposed to get lynched in.

Did you see my note, though, about the Town turning on you? Everyone's joking, everyone's joking, Pie jokes, all jokes stop!! Now let's accuse Pie. Lynch him! Lynch him!

I liked your joke and I thought it was somewhat insulting to think that you would be that obvious as Scum as to ponder out loud if you could find the real women to kill the queen and the bodyguard. Well, it got activity going either way. Yes, your lynch would have been beneficial and you could've used your kill whenever you wanted so you could observe and decide who was Scummy. Glad you had fun and learned either way.

[JimBee]

Defending Shadows?! You must be scum!

Seriously, though, I don't think you did anything wrong with confronting Pandora. I know we were worried about it. Really, it was Pandora not giving up that got you killed. Even seeing it happen from the scum side, I'm amazed at how she pulled it off. If you guys had been even slightly more organized at the end, you might have realized what was going on.

After we killed Shadows, no one was talking to any of us. There was a while that we thought Shadows had passed on his info and you guys were being sneaky about it. We had to be cautious because any one of us could have had evidence against us at that point. Cecilie could have been watched killing. I could have been outed as the other "protector". And you guys had already latched on to Pandora being scum.

When it turned out you guys had nothing and that you weren't really communicating outside the day thread either, we pressed our advantage and caused confusion.

Yes, it is too bad we couldn't get organized enough. The scum had us, through and through.

Kinda sucks, the one game I was supposed to get lynched in.

[Shadows]

I still think that the royal family members should have known each other from the start if the scum were given that advantage in a game where everyone's identity is hidden from everyone else. Alternately, no one knowing anything but having to find each other would work. Half and half, not so much.

On the other hand, imagine a game with 2 teams of 3 and a bunch of neutrals who could go either way, now that would be an interesting experience.

You had also sent them after the wrong person, don't forget (I've said it three times in one post, so how can you at this point? ) but I see how you would not be able to trust anyone at that point. If I were you, and thank God I'm not, I would've sent all my suspicions with backup to three people. If you can't trust one, you can hope you trust 1 out of three.

Before I died, more than 3 people knew my suspicions, including what to do if MetroiD was actually town. Can you imagine my frustration the next day?

What if you got blocked by the town blocker?

Wouldn't have mattered.

I was expecting you to at least tell people to lynch Cornelius, who claimed a protective action

The problem was the way he claimed his role made sense and actually made me suspect that he was a member of the royal family, all of whom seemed to get roles with limited uses (one-shot), like backups of the real roles. Someone either knew how the royal roles worked or got very lucky there.

I didn't buy it, but he did have a cool fireplace in his tent back then.

Ah, but I was neutral in that game. And we won, despite the host fully revealing my alignment against his own rules. So all in all, doesn't matter, had sausage.

and it was your editing of your PM to Shadows which left him thinking I was lying when I wasn't.

Nope, it was you. Won't explain it either, but Hinck knows.

so I metagamed Rick just like everyone else does on night one. Funny how that turned out.

Who else metagamed Rick? Traditionally, Draggy and I get metagamed, now we have to share that with Rick? Aw, that's a shame, poor Rick.

You didn't 'flat out turn me over'. There wasn't anything except mild suspicion expressed - it was shown in the thread, and that was based on MetroiD editing his PM to you.

Actually, I did. To 3 people. And 1 dead one (helpful, huh?). I also investigated you the night I died just so I could officially do it the next day. Had very little to do with MetroiD, his wacky misdirections only made me feel that my suspicions were already confirmed. Wish I'd had time to do it officially, it would have made for a very exciting day.

Then again, I guess Rick had all of us pegged on Day 1... please tell us how!

Yes, I'm wondering that myself.

There was a while that we thought Shadows had passed on his info and you guys were being sneaky about it.

I had, they didn't do a damn thing with it, even when it should have been obvious that they needed to vote with JimB. I'm not going to sell out the ones who failed there, but I'll sure use it against them in the future.

Oh boy, I’m going to give Shadows a bunch of fake deaths in the mid-day break.

I :wub:d that part, I really did.

Shadows can be infuriating. What a prick.

There's a newsflash.

[Scouty]

Ah, but I was neutral in that game. And we won, despite the host fully revealing my alignment against his own rules. So all in all, doesn't matter, had sausage.

Revealing the alignment was intended from the beginning, though, I should've handled it slightly different. Oh, well, live and learn! Here, have another sausage on the house for your troubles...and a nice burning tent.

[CMP]

Did you see my note, though, about the Town turning on you? Everyone's joking, everyone's joking, Pie jokes, all jokes stop!! Now let's accuse Pie. Lynch him! Lynch him!

I couldn't figure out why I was being accused about it. I think you went out of your way to even the gender ratio just to prevent that sort of thing. I assumed it was just the usual Day One grab what you can see and lynch for it sort of thing. But what killed me even more is that the one time I'm not the one that brings up the suggestion of tying the votes, it's the one time people actually friggin' do it. But I guess it did make more sense in this situation than others.

[CorneliusMurdock]

You were just full of irony this game, CMP. And as much of a headache a ghost vig would have been for us scum to deal with, it would have been fun to see.

And it goes to show you that not lynching is stupid. If Shadows hadn't gotten a scum result on someone or had the sense to not immediately come forward with it himself ( ), town would have been just as lost that second day. I would have been against tying the vote whether I was scum or not. Lynching is part of the game, play it. How people react to the lynch and who voted and why are all great things to know going into a second day. Besides looking for scum tells, you can gauge how everyone's playing to see if you can find someone to be an ally.

[Shadows]

Revealing the alignment was intended from the beginning, though, I should've handled it slightly different.

Note to future mafia hosts: There is never a right time to publicly reveal the alignment of a living player.

Oh, well, live and learn! Here, have another sausage on the house for your troubles...and a nice burning tent.

Yay! I my tent, it's the best tent in the army!

Lynching is part of the game, play it.

Lynching is a normal part of a normal game, but this was different, we didn't have the luxury of 20 spare players without the needs to protect 3 specific, unknown ones. You're still thinking scummy, you may have felt different if you'd been town, even though you think you wouldn't have.

[CorneliusMurdock]

Lynching is a normal part of a normal game, but this was different, we didn't have the luxury of 20 spare players without the needs to protect 3 specific, unknown ones. You're still thinking scummy, you may have felt different if you'd been town, even though you think you wouldn't have.

I felt the same in IMHOTEP. Bigger but same concept. Those that need to protect themselves have the responsibility to not get lynched early on. Town can't get so caught up on not making mistakes that they don't use the means given them to find scum. Once you build a town block, then you can start worrying about protecting people.

[Scouty]

Note to future mafia hosts: There is never a right time to publicly reveal the alignment of a living player.

Yeah! Because regenerations used in future games were totally bad! Now go back to your hospital bed .

[Hinckley]

I still think that the royal family members should have known each other from the start if the scum were given that advantage in a game where everyone's identity is hidden from everyone else. Alternately, no one knowing anything but having to find each other would work. Half and half, not so much.

Oh, I forgot to mention, this game was loosely based on Assassin in the Palace. The point of Assassin in the Palace is their is a King and one assassin. The rest of the players are all guards and they all know who the King is. Cool concept. Very cool, but I made it more Mafia-ey. I wanted to have the usual roles and some more royal family, so it became more of a rip-off of IMHOTEP. But I can see how you would think the Scum not knowing who they are would be a good balance. I did that with Baritones 2, none of the Scum knew who the other Scum were and it was ... just weird. I'm not sure that'd be possible for the assassins to not have known each other, but it would've been interesting. The concept would've worked. Maybe if there were more people, I could put 2 or 3 killers in it? Anyway, I have a concept for a sequel and I love my idea. But we'll see if it ever comes to fruition. I'll take all advice into consideration and try to make a more gentle balance.

On the other hand, imagine a game with 2 teams of 3 and a bunch of neutrals who could go either way, now that would be an interesting experience.

Hmmmmm....

The problem was the way he claimed his role made sense and actually made me suspect that he was a member of the royal family, all of whom seemed to get roles with limited uses (one-shot), like backups of the real roles. Someone either knew how the royal roles worked or got very lucky there.

I love that. He was so cautious but he played everything right. He sought you out because he would as a Townie and made a claim before someone came looking for him. Reminded me of Foog in IMHOTEP.

Nope, it was you. Won't explain it either, but Hinck knows.

Yes, I'm wondering that myself.

I know both.

Who else metagamed Rick? Traditionally, Draggy and I get metagamed, now we have to share that with Rick? Aw, that's a shame, poor Rick.

Rick has been killed Night One in three games now. And now that he successfully won as a Serial Killer in Baritones 3, people really focus on him on Night One. Did you read IMHOTEP? I think you'd really love it. You were sorely missed in that game. Best EB Mafia game EVER!

I had, they didn't do a damn thing with it, even when it should have been obvious that they needed to vote with JimB. I'm not going to sell out the ones who failed there, but I'll sure use it against them in the future.

Oh come on, we're all friends. Feedback!!

I :wub:d that part, I really did.

So did I. Old times...

You were just full of irony this game, CMP. And as much of a headache a ghost vig would have been for us scum to deal with, it would have been fun to see.

I would've loved to see CMP as a ghost vigilante! Oh, my heart aches for it.

But, alas, it didn't happen. I watched your choice for Night Kill every night and was so proud of you guys for making good choices and being successful in all of them, but I wanted to see some explosions and ghosts.

[CMP]

Great. Now I have failure and regret. It only figures the best possible roles for the town were left until the very end. And it had be the ones that almost got lynched on the first day. We really got wiped - congrats to the scum, you played a really fantastic game.