def Posted December 17, 2011 Posted December 17, 2011 I was thinking about this topic for a bit after discussing it here: http://www.eurobricks.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=62243 I think everybody knows the prices are different all over, for whatever reasons, and I'm not interested in bitching about it But, saying it's different from region to region doesn't mean that much, when there are so many other factors. My idea was this: we have members all over the world, all with different prices. Let's compare them, but also comparing the cost of living. I live in Japan, so the cost of living is generally higher, but so is the average salary. So, Lego is expensive, of course, but not outrageous. I'll start, using Japanese pricing. I encourage you to do the same for your region, and I can add them to this post so it's easy to compare. I added the price of a McDonald's cheeseburger and an apple, so you can get an idea of the general cost of things. If you have something else to add to the index to make it better, feel free to suggest it Australia: Sales tax: 10%, always included (in price) $1 US ~ $1 AUS (1.00251 AUD) A McDonalds cheeseburger = I have no idea, maybe $2 An apple= about $1 each 8Gb Ipod touch = $219 (includes GST) Collectible Minifig = $4.99 10222 Winter Post Office = $109.99 10218 Pet Shop = $269.99 Full-time annual earnings in Australia averaged A$68,791 (Income tax (in summary) $4,650 plus 30c for each $1 over $37,000 (not including other levies such as medicare). Canada : Sales tax: 15% (Quebec), sales tax in Canada vary from province(territory) to province, the average is about 10-11% $1 US ~ $1 CAD (.97 CAD) A McDonalds cheeseburger = roughly 1.50 An apple= about .50$ each Collectible Minifig = $3.99 10222 Winter Post Office = $79.99 10218 Pet Shop = $199.99 Japan: Sales tax: 5%, always included $1 US = 77 yen A McDonalds cheeseburger = 120 yen/$1.53 An apple= about 100 yen/$1.29 Collectible Minifig = 300 yen/$3.87 10222 Winter Post Office = 10,500 yen/$135.36 10218 Pet Shop = 26,250/$338.40 Norway (Non-EU but Common Market): Sales tax: 25% on most, including toys (15% on food, most books are excempt). $1 US ~ 5.91 NOK (Norwegian krone) A McDonald's cheeseburger = 10 NOK = $1.69 An apple = about 5 NOK = $0.84 8Gb iPod Touch = 1500 NOK = $253.66 Collectible Minifig = 25 NOK = $4.22 10222 Winter Post Office = 649 NOK = $109.75 10218 Pet Shop = 1599 NOK = $270 Average pay per month before tax was 36,700 NOK ($ 6206) - but that's only counting employed workers that were actually paid (in 2010), the number would be lower if you included the unemployed. But the unemployment rate is only 3.3%. The income tax on this average salary would be about 32% - more if you are paid more, less if you are paid less. Slovenia (EU): Sales tax: 20% (VAT) $1 US ~ 0,77 euro A McDonalds cheeseburger = 1euro = $1.30 An apple= 0,25 euro = $0.32 each Collectible Minifig = 1,99 euro = $2.60 10222 Winter Post Office = 60euro = $78 10218 Pet Shop = 150euro = $195 Average salary is around 12.000euro/$15000 per year (after tax) and 19200euro/$25200 before tax. South Africa: Sales tax: 14%, always included (in price) $1 US ~ R8 ZAR A McDonalds cheeseburger = $3.20 An apple= about $0.50 8Gb Ipod touch = $220 Collectible Minifig = $3.00 10222 Winter Post Office = $100.00 10218 Pet Shop = $275.00 - Our currency varies up and down per quarter. R6 to $1 for a couple of months, to R8.50 to $1 for the next. - Licensed Lego appears more expensive. Example, 4182 Pirates Cannibal Escape is $60 to $75. Sweden (EU but not €): Sales tax: 25% on most, including toys (12% on food, 6% on books). $1 US ~ 6.92 SEK (Swedish Krona) A McDonalds cheeseburger = 10 SEK = $1.44 An apple= not sure, 5 SEK maybe = $0.72 Collectible Minifig = 25 SEK = $3.61 10222 Winter Post Office = 699 SEK = $101 10218 Pet Shop = 1849 SEK = $267 Average pay per month before tax is 28 400 SEK ($4 103), while the median is about 25 300 SEK ($3 655). Then 34%-29% income tax is deducted leaving about 19 500 SEK/$2 817 (avarage) or 17300 SEK/$2 500 (median). UK : Sales tax: 20% (VAT) $1 US ~ £0.65 A McDonalds cheeseburger = roughly $1.50 An apple= about $0.45 each Collectible Minifig = $3.10 (£1.99) 10222 Winter Post Office = $78 (£50) 10218 Pet Shop = $186 (£120) Quote
Darth Dino Posted December 17, 2011 Posted December 17, 2011 Hi that list has no value unless we all have no idea what the average income AND leftover is for the people in your country. The difference between Switzerland and Germany e.g. is pretty huge. It does not matter if the minifig is 5$ if your leftover per month is 5000$... Dino Quote
lorax Posted December 17, 2011 Posted December 17, 2011 Australia: Sales tax: 10%, always included (in price) $1 US ~ $1 AUS (1.00251 AUD) A McDonalds cheeseburger = I have no idea, maybe $2 An apple= about $1 each Collectible Minifig = $4.99 10222 Winter Post Office = $109.99 10218 Pet Shop = $269.99 Quote
def Posted December 17, 2011 Author Posted December 17, 2011 that list has no value... Okay, just ignore it then Australia: Sales tax: 10%, always included (in price) $1 US ~ $1 AUS (1.00251 AUD) A McDonalds cheeseburger = I have no idea, maybe $2 An apple= about $1 each Collectible Minifig = $4.99 10222 Winter Post Office = $109.99 10218 Pet Shop = $269.99 Thanks, added Australian currency has been so wacky the past few years. I used to buy LEGO in bulk from there, when the currency was right in the toilet maybe four years back. Those were the days, buying Aussie dollars with yen Quote
Piratedave84 Posted December 17, 2011 Posted December 17, 2011 Canada : Sales tax: 15% (Quebec), sales tax in Canada vary from province(territory) to province, the average is about 10-11% $1 US ~ $1 CAD (.97 CAD) A McDonalds cheeseburger = roughly 1.50 An apple= about .50$ each Collectible Minifig = $3.99 10222 Winter Post Office = $79.99 10218 Pet Shop = $199.99 Quote
autobrick Posted December 17, 2011 Posted December 17, 2011 Interesting topic, def; I was thinking of making a similar topic, but more focused strictly on the Lego retail environment (availability, sale frequency, etc.). Thanks for doing the hard work for me! I think you should make a bigger distinction between places that include/exclude sales tax within the sales price. 10-15% could make a big difference either way. Also, having an average income for each country would make this list more useful. How about adding a third reference price for something more expensive and standardised? ie. a DVD, an iPhone, a video game? Quote
markfrizzell Posted December 17, 2011 Posted December 17, 2011 UK : Sales tax: 20% (VAT) $1 US ~ £0.65 A McDonalds cheeseburger = roughly $1.50 An apple= about $0.45 each Collectible Minifig = $3.10 (£1.99) 10222 Winter Post Office = $78 (£50) 10218 Pet Shop = $186 (£120) Quote
davee123 Posted December 17, 2011 Posted December 17, 2011 If you have something else to add to the index to make it better, feel free to suggest it What might be a better comparison is the cost of other toys-- foods and other products might be locally sourced and taxed differently, whereas toys would likely be a pretty good comparison. Is LEGO further out of line from other toys locally? DaveE Quote
lorax Posted December 17, 2011 Posted December 17, 2011 To include the additional information, if it makes a better comparison. If we were to add average income: Full-time annual earnings in Australia averaged A$68,791 (Income tax (in summary) $4,650 plus 30c for each $1 over $37,000 (not including other levies such as medicare). And from apple, a 8Gb Ipod touch is $219 (includes GST) Quote
Cwetqo Posted December 17, 2011 Posted December 17, 2011 (edited) Slovenia (EU): Sales tax: 20% (VAT) $1 US ~ 0,77 euro A McDonalds cheeseburger = 1euro = $1.30 An apple= 0,25 euro = $0.32 each Collectible Minifig = 1,99 euro = $2.60 10222 Winter Post Office = 60euro = $78 10218 Pet Shop = 150euro = $195 Lego prices are mostly the same as in Germany,Austria, Italy and most mainland eu countries. Average monthly pay is around 1000euro=$1300 after all taxes are paid (around 1600 euro/$2100 before tax), which comes to around 12.000euro/$15000 per year (after tax) and 19200euro/$25200 before tax. Edited December 17, 2011 by Cwetqo Quote
meyerc13 Posted December 17, 2011 Posted December 17, 2011 I had a similar idea to this, but I think we need some better items to compare. I can live without a McDonald's Cheeseburger, but there are items I always purchase when I go to the grocery store. I think the first step is we should come up with some common items we all purchase regularly. Some of it may be difficult, with different units of measurement, so we'll need to explain how to convert. Some ideas I had: Gasoline Milk Loaf of Bread Pound of Hamburger (this might be a sensitive issue in come countries) Pair of socks (this could vary greatly by type and brand) Even with challenges such as I've noted above, I think a comparison such as this would reveal some interesting things. I suspect that the places where LEGO is more expensive are the places where everything is more expensive. Also, as mentioned above, we'd know to know what the average person takes home in pay. Salary is one measure, but here in the US income tax is deducted, as are things such as health insurance, retirement savings, etc. so my actual net take home pay is much less than my salary. Quote
Etzel Posted December 17, 2011 Posted December 17, 2011 Sweden (EU but not €): Sales tax: 25% on most, including toys (12% on food, 6% on books). $1 US ~ 6.92 SEK (Swedish Krona) A McDonalds cheeseburger = 10 SEK = $1.44 An apple= not sure, 5 SEK maybe = $0.72 Collectible Minifig = 25 SEK = $3.61 10222 Winter Post Office = 699 SEK = $101 10218 Pet Shop = 1849 SEK = $267 Average pay per month before tax is 28 400 SEK ($4 103), while the median is about 25 300 SEK ($3 655). Then 34%-29% income tax is deducted leaving about 19 500 SEK/$2 817 (avarage) or 17300 SEK/$2 500 (median). Quote
def Posted December 19, 2011 Author Posted December 19, 2011 I think you should make a bigger distinction between places that include/exclude sales tax within the sales price. 10-15% could make a big difference either way. Also, having an average income for each country would make this list more useful. How about adding a third reference price for something more expensive and standardised? ie. a DVD, an iPhone, a video game? Thanks. The sales tax is there, but it really is a big difference from country to country. In my native home, Canada, it's illegal to advertise with the tax included, while in Japan it's bad business sense not to include it. A third price reference is a good idea. Of those there, I'd say an iPhone is best, since, like LEGO and McDonald's, it's an international company that adjusts prices by region. The iTunes store is the best example of this, since a song that costs $1 in America costs double that in Japan, and there really is no way to justify that other than for profits' sake. What might be a better comparison is the cost of other toys-- foods and other products might be locally sourced and taxed differently, whereas toys would likely be a pretty good comparison. Is LEGO further out of line from other toys locally? Maybe, but it depends on the ubiquitousness of the toy. I'm guessing Cars is popular around the world. The reason I chose food was because it reflects the cost of living in a place. To include the additional information, if it makes a better comparison. If we were to add average income: Full-time annual earnings in Australia averaged A$68,791 (Income tax (in summary) $4,650 plus 30c for each $1 over $37,000 (not including other levies such as medicare). And from apple, a 8Gb Ipod touch is $219 (includes GST) Average income is again, good, but I didn't bother simply because of the situation in Japan. People under 35 in Japan make far less than those over 35, but even in 20 years time, they will probably make relatively less than the generation before. But, the people buying LEGO, either as AFOLs or parents, tend to skew young. I'm assuming a majority of this site is under 40. I am, and I'm poor But, I'll add that in Thanks. I had a similar idea to this, but I think we need some better items to compare. I can live without a McDonald's Cheeseburger, but there are items I always purchase when I go to the grocery store. I think the first step is we should come up with some common items we all purchase regularly. Some of it may be difficult, with different units of measurement, so we'll need to explain how to convert. Some ideas I had: Gasoline Milk Loaf of Bread Pound of Hamburger (this might be a sensitive issue in come countries) Pair of socks (this could vary greatly by type and brand) Even with challenges such as I've noted above, I think a comparison such as this would reveal some interesting things. I suspect that the places where LEGO is more expensive are the places where everything is more expensive. Also, as mentioned above, we'd know to know what the average person takes home in pay. Salary is one measure, but here in the US income tax is deducted, as are things such as health insurance, retirement savings, etc. so my actual net take home pay is much less than my salary. The cheeseburger was chosen simply because McDonald's is an international company with standardized products, as I mentioned above. The other suggestions you have are solid, but some I couldn't use because of living in Japan. For example, a "loaf" of bread in Japan is six slices with no crusts. It's much less bread than in Canada, but about the same price. Milk is not a staple food here, dairy in general, so it tends to be a little expensive. Rice is the standard food. Apples are pretty universal, so I chose that, but milk or beef would be fair enough, and if people want to add other prices, it doesn't have to be a very standardized list Though almost only America judges it by the pound. Here it's by the gram. Any of it is informative. Gas is much harder to gauge, since it is so extremely taxed. America has extremely undertaxed gas (the will of oil companies the people), so as an example of cost of living, it greatly depends on the region, and doesn't reflect the fact that all over much of the world, the car is not a central mode of transport. In Japan, it is trains, and train travel is cheap compared to the States... Gas, beef, milk, bread... You have never been to Japan It's just a matter of finding actual international comparison points, which is hard. And the taxes in America are relatively low. People in other countries tend to pay far more, so salary is hard to judge anywhere. Thanks for the input, I'll update it with all your ideas Quote
davee123 Posted December 19, 2011 Posted December 19, 2011 Maybe, but it depends on the ubiquitousness of the toy. I'm guessing Cars is popular around the world. I'd probably do a comparison of similarly generic toys like K'Nex, Playmobil, Brio, etc, rather than licensed toys which may be widely varied between countries, and often depend on the associated media (like TV shows, movies, etc). DaveE Quote
TheLegoDr Posted December 20, 2011 Posted December 20, 2011 So as much as Americans like to complain about things, from that list, I can say I am really glad I live in the US. I don't think I could handle this hobby (addiction) if I lived elsewhere. I can hardly keep up as it is! And 2012 isn't looking any better... Thanks for the list. It is really informative. But to go along with that list, at least here in the US, I know some things vary per region of the country too. I'm sure certain toys and products may be relatively the same across the board, but little things like local taxes and cost of living can make leftover money be rather different. I'm sure that is stating the obvious and someone else probably mentioned something similar. I like the list though. Thanks. Quote
tafkatb Posted December 27, 2011 Posted December 27, 2011 I'll add to those saying an index of income in each country would help as well, but point out that median income, not average, gives us a better gauge of how things stand. Quote
Omegablue Posted January 4, 2012 Posted January 4, 2012 South Africa: Sales tax: 14%, always included (in price) $1 US ~ R8 ZAR A McDonalds cheeseburger = $3.20 An apple= about $0.50 8Gb Ipod touch = $220 Collectible Minifig = $3.00 10222 Winter Post Office = $100.00 10218 Pet Shop = $275.00 - Our currency varies up and down per quarter. R6 to $1 for a couple of months, to R8.50 to $1 for the next. - Licensed Lego appears more expensive. Example, 4182 Pirates Cannibal Escape is $60 to $75. Quote
L@go Posted January 4, 2012 Posted January 4, 2012 (edited) Norway (Non-EU but Common Market): Sales tax: 25% on most, including toys (15% on food, most books are excempt). $1 US ~ 5.91 NOK (Norwegian krone) A McDonald's cheeseburger = 10 NOK = $1.69 An apple = about 5 NOK = $0.84 8Gb iPod Touch = 1500 NOK = $253.66 Collectible Minifig = 25 NOK = $4.22 10222 Winter Post Office = 649 NOK = $109.75 10218 Pet Shop = 1599 NOK = $270 Average pay per month before tax was 36,700 NOK ($ 6206) - but that's only counting employed workers that were actually paid (in 2010), the number would be lower if you included the unemployed. But the unemployment rate is only 3.3%. The income tax on this average salary would be about 32% - more if you are paid more, less if you are paid less. Edited January 4, 2012 by L@go Quote
def Posted January 7, 2012 Author Posted January 7, 2012 Average pay per month before tax was 36,700 NOK ($ 6206) - The average pay per month is about $6,296?! Holy crap! That's a healthy country! Quote
L@go Posted January 7, 2012 Posted January 7, 2012 The average pay per month is about $6,296?! Holy crap! That's a healthy country! It is. But we pay our taxes :) Quote
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