Longer Pneumatics

[davidmull]

That's a good point. What do you think of this?

I quite like this actually because not only does it make it easier to fix two end on end (which I don't like cos it's ugly and unrealistic, but to have the option is nice), it also allow more possibities for mounting fixed or freely. Would this not also allow you to mount pneumatic cylinders when used for outriggers?

This looks like the best idea so far well done Allan, do ye really think Lego will make longer ones as we are years hoping now :( come on Lego do it :) personally I think we have seen the last of pneumatics for a few more years like they did before,also there quiet expensive if they have to recall pneumatic parts too!

[nielsvdv]

So are you saying that the current one, with it's 2 stud wide mounting is no so good for the studless system of usually having odd number widths? Hmmm. What about having it only 1 stud wide, like the bottom of the clear "hydraulic" cylinder, and make the underside fit quite tight to a beam so that by just mounting it onto a beam, it becomes fixed, like this:

Using this method, Some of the stress can be taken from the axle and directed straigt to the beam supporting it. It also means you can expand it to being two or three studs wide by using half or normal bushes and so mounting it fixed or free is easy and strong and allows for more flexibilty. Would you be happy with something like this nielsvdv?

thats a good idea too, but the halfstuds on the side with my idea could come in handy, if its for decoration placement, or fixing tubing to the side, or even for elevation. the 1 stud is a good idea, but that could come out too weak, or it could make the pneumatics wobelling.

grtz nielsvdv

[le60head]

Great topic everyone!

I too would like to see longer pneumatic rams.

I support the latest suggestion for a 1-wide mounting on the bottom of the pneumatic rams.

I think 9-long stroke would be the maximum most of us would need.

The standard 2-stud diameter of the ram's body is fine by me. they're pretty sturdy.

The mini pneumatic rams bend too much ( the piston is a bit loose )

[dhc6twinotter]

That's a good point. What do you think of this?

I quite like this actually because not only does it make it easier to fix two end on end (which I don't like cos it's ugly and unrealistic, but to have the option is nice), it also allow more possibities for mounting fixed or freely. Would this not also allow you to mount pneumatic cylinders when used for outriggers?

I like it! I think the only change I would make would be to switch the position of the pin and axle hole, so that the pin hole is the lower one.

The pin and axle holes could also be used for outrigger mounts, but I think having a pin or axle hole mid-way on the cylinder would be much stronger. Having a pneumatic cylinder outrigger supported only from one end would be too weak, imho.

I actually don't mind the 2 stud wide base of the cylinders. I do like the idea of a 1 stud base, but I think having the base narrower than the cylinder may, in some cases, make it harder to mount.

Just my $.02.

[Alasdair Ryan]

Like your new idea Allan,i think it would be better being one stud at the bottom easy mounting,however i could live with it being 2 studs wide,the mine thing is that it is longer.

[allanp]

@ Davidmull Thanks . I remember over on technicbricks they asked a designer about the possibility of longer pneumatics. His responce was that longer pneumatics are always on their minds however, up to yet longer rams have not been deemed to bring about the most new possibilities. Of course I disagree with that. But they are thinking about it. I don't think it will take 10,000 votes to pursuade them. I think if we can come up with enough uses and show our support then it's entirely possible we'll get them. I don't think they would have anymore risk of recalling these than they would of any new pre-assembled part.

@dhc6twinotter (switching the holes round is a good idea me thinks) and nielsvdv, the only real problem with having extra mounting points half way up is not really a big problem, it just comes down to easthetics. However being able to have fixing points here would obviously make them even more versatile. Looking at the front rams of a bulldozer you can see they are mounted in the middle of the rams, not the end. As this is technic, functoinality beats looks therefore, I guess they would be better with these extra fixings. Just two more things tho:

1) Where there is a thicker part of the cylinder wall, there may form an indentation on the inside walls as the plastic cools after moulding, so it may not be possible to maintain a good seal.

2) What does everyone else think of having the extra mounting points in the middle? Would they look right on a backhoe or excavator? Would they get in the way more times than they would be helpful?

[HerrPierre]

Set 8843 had a pretty long pneumatic cylinder, 6 or 7 studs outwards?

[allanp]

It was only single acting i'm afraid.

[Sokratesz]

It was only single acting i'm afraid.

Nope, could go both ways with the suction block thingy (http://media.peeron.com/pics/inv/custpics/4692.jpg), and yes it has a 6-stud reach. (model is standing next to me :))

- Sok.

Edited November 13, 2011 by Sokratesz

[davidmull]

Nope, could go both ways with the suction block thingy (http://media.peeron.com/pics/inv/custpics/4692.jpg), and yes it has a 6-stud reach. (model is standing next to me :))

- Sok.

I never knew there was longer ones!

[Sokratesz]

They are quite rare however, and not as sturdy as the later double-nozzle cylinders.

- Sok.

Edited November 13, 2011 by Sokratesz

[allanp]

They were not very strong when retracting as they relied on a vacuum to do it. They were also bendy due to the loose fit around the top (there was no air seal) and the rod was plastic, not steel. In anycase i'de like to see them a tad longer, between 7 and 9 studs length of stroke seems to be the most popular so far.

[timslegos]

I love this idea!!! it would work so much better than the current cylinders.

tim

[Blakbird]

Nice idea Allen but the pin/axle hole in the middle takes the look off the ram and u dont see this in real life ether,

Sure you do. It's called a trunnion mounted actuator, and they are quite common though not as common as actuators with the attachments at the ends.

[davidmull]

I wonder how would a telescopic ram work like they use in tipping trucks!

[allanp]

A telescopic one would be great, but unlikely because they would not be as useful in as many different situations. Besides I think they are only single acting, meaning air will force it to extend, but an external force is needed (ie the weight of the tipping bed) to retract it.

[Kisvakond]

I'd like to see a pneumatic cylinder with a 7-9L stroke. Also add an axle and pin hole at the bottom (like the LA's), and an axle or pin hole about mid way up the cylinder.

And we need a servo motor.

Me too, me too..

So.. "Dear Santa.. " :D

[allanp]

So, the average length of stroke people asked for turned out to be about 7.5 lego units (assuming barmans illustration showed a stroke of around 12.5 lego units). So here is pretty much what our new cylinder looks like:

Here we have added 4 lego units in length, increasing the retracted hole centre to hole centre distance from 6 lego units to 10 lego units, and the extended hole centre to hole centre distance from about 9.5 lego untis to about 17.5 lego units. This equates to slightly more than double the size of the stroke of the current standard cylinder. The other change is to modify the mounting point at the bottom end of the cylinder to make it more suitable for studless construction techniques. I have not added any more points midway up the cylinder as I could not get them to not distract from the overall look of the cylinder. In addition, making them both strong, and small so they don't keep getting in the way was proving very difficult. However, as some have shown an interest in them we can always mention it to TLG as something else to consider.

So chaps! If we are agreed that this is what we want (speak up now if you want further changes) I guess the next thing is to decide, what next? Is cuusoo the best solution? Or is there a better way?

[Alasdair Ryan]

The next stage would be to for someone to try making one and then if thay work, and if alot of people would want one the start selling them,easy as that .

Edited November 19, 2011 by Alasdair Ryan

[timslegos]

Awesome render! I do want to say that this new cylinder is significantly shorter than 2 large pneumatic cylinders put together when they are fully extended. Other than that i think it looks good.

tim

[zewy623]

why not make the cross axle and the pinhole 3 units wide (instead of your 1 and lego's 2 unit wide) and possibly have the center unit be hollow for easier build? and change your 7.5 unit length difference to a whole number?

anyone think this is a good idea?

[Kisvakond]

... So chaps! If we are agreed that this is what we want (speak up now if you want further changes) I guess the next thing is to decide, what next? Is cuusoo the best solution? Or is there a better way?

I don't know, but I - and many others (Technic fans, Technic builders & MOCers, etc.) - would support it ASAP GO Cuusoo or whatever!

Edited November 20, 2011 by Kisvakond

[Alasdair Ryan]

I don't know, but I - and many others (Technic fans, Technic builders & MOCers, etc.) - would support it ASAP GO Cuusoo or whatever!

You will be waiting a long time if we are going via Cuusoo ,Some one will need to build them.

[timslegos]

Could we persuade a third party company to make these pnuematics if we specify exactly what we want?

Tim

[T_Tank]

If someone had a 3D printer of some some sort of CNC machine you could make most of the parts that way though CNC i'd think aluminum would be the medium used for most of the parts with of course a rubber o ring or something for the seal. I would also dare say we could use some stronger pumps or least larger diameter ones that could be easily motorized.