LEGO DesignbyME to close January 2012

[vynsane]

Thanks for bringing that to our attention, Toa of Justice... I posted this in response to that topic, but will copy it here:

I always liked the concept of DbM but, as already stated numerous times in this topic, the cost was too prohibitive and the piece/color selection was too limited. I'm sure there are a lot of other factors that drove the cost to what it was, but I always thought that a pretty easy cost-cutting measure would have been to make the custom printed box and instructions an optional add-on - I'd wager that it could have accounted for at least 10% of the over-all cost (though that's mere conjecture). I truly feel that reducing the over-all cost and increasing the selection of available parts would have made the process more enticing to T/AFOLs - I would totally pay a (modest) premium to have all the pieces necessary to build my MOCs bagged up and shipped to me lock, stock and barrel as opposed to hunting for the pieces on Bricklink/PaB. But when you can buy an official 200 piece set at retail for around $20, $25 but a DbM set comprised of 200 pieces costs more like $50, it's just a little too much to swallow. I would jump at the opportunity to buy my theoretical 200 piece set (sans box and instructions) for $35.

The other side of the coin, making it easier for children to build their own stuff, that's a bit harder to figure out. I know this sounds like it would actually add a level of complexity to the software, but as long as the interface is easy enough to use, perhaps if there were yet another palette, aside from the bricks, user-created templates and groups that had "master builder approved and designed modules" (I seem to be all about modules). Say a young LEGO designer wanted to create a plane, there could be a set of "aeronautic" modules that would include various designs for pairs of symmetrical wings, cockpits, tails, etc, that could be chosen and then modified/augmented to suit the needs of the final design. This way, depending on the age of the user, it could range from more of a guided design process to completely free-form.

Taking it a step further, if the 'guided design process' were then labelled as 'Master Builder Academy mode', it would tie LDD back into a revenue-generating aspect of the business - one that seems to be pretty popular, to boot.

[Toa_Of_Justice]

Thanks for bringing that to our attention, Toa of Justice... I posted this in response to that topic, but will copy it here:

I always liked the concept of DbM but, as already stated numerous times in this topic, the cost was too prohibitive and the piece/color selection was too limited. I'm sure there are a lot of other factors that drove the cost to what it was, but I always thought that a pretty easy cost-cutting measure would have been to make the custom printed box and instructions an optional add-on - I'd wager that it could have accounted for at least 10% of the over-all cost (though that's mere conjecture). I truly feel that reducing the over-all cost and increasing the selection of available parts would have made the process more enticing to T/AFOLs - I would totally pay a (modest) premium to have all the pieces necessary to build my MOCs bagged up and shipped to me lock, stock and barrel as opposed to hunting for the pieces on Bricklink/PaB. But when you can buy an official 200 piece set at retail for around $20, $25 but a DbM set comprised of 200 pieces costs more like $50, it's just a little too much to swallow. I would jump at the opportunity to buy my theoretical 200 piece set (sans box and instructions) for $35.

The other side of the coin, making it easier for children to build their own stuff, that's a bit harder to figure out. I know this sounds like it would actually add a level of complexity to the software, but as long as the interface is easy enough to use, perhaps if there were yet another palette, aside from the bricks, user-created templates and groups that had "master builder approved and designed modules" (I seem to be all about modules). Say a young LEGO designer wanted to create a plane, there could be a set of "aeronautic" modules that would include various designs for pairs of symmetrical wings, cockpits, tails, etc, that could be chosen and then modified/augmented to suit the needs of the final design. This way, depending on the age of the user, it could range from more of a guided design process to completely free-form.

Taking it a step further, if the 'guided design process' were then labelled as 'Master Builder Academy mode', it would tie LDD back into a revenue-generating aspect of the business - one that seems to be pretty popular, to boot.

Great ideas, vynsane. I've also wanted the ability to make the box optional. The instructions were always optional if I recall correctly. In fact, I remember that LEGO warned that the instructions might be faulty, and encouraged people to not include the instructions (for the sake of saving a tree) unless they really wanted them.

I also like your modules idea. Right now, LDD has "starter models" that can be adjusted from basic to complete. I think a similar idea could be applied to your modules.

-Toa Of Justice

EDIT: I also posted this on Brickset.

Edited November 10, 2011 by Toa_Of_Justice

[Laura Beinbrech]

Great ideas, vynsane. I've also wanted the ability to make the box optional. The instructions were always optional if I recall correctly. In fact, I remember that LEGO warned that the instructions might be faulty, and encouraged people to not include the instructions (for the sake of saving a tree) unless they really wanted them.

I agree as well... I loved the fact that they made LDD available for free, and that you could get stuff from PAB, but I always wished for some way to have the program directly send a parts list to PAB or generate a parts list WITHOUT having to pay $20 extra for a box that I didn't want or need!

...As a matter of fact, I posted that very statement on the official LEGO DBM forums, but as far as I could tell, nobody paid any attention to it.

The only thing that concerns me is I just hope that they'll leave in the "Check to see if this model can be purchased" menu option and/or keep DBM as a "Pick A Brick" mode that allows you to keep track of which pieces you can order through LEGO PAB and which ones require going to BrickLink....

[RoxYourBlox]

This is terrible news. I can only hope that TLG continues to make digital design software available to the public. Certainly nothing that I've done could have been realized without using LDD as a primer.

[Lyichir]

This is terrible news. I can only hope that TLG continues to make digital design software available to the public. Certainly nothing that I've done could have been realized without using LDD as a primer.

Mark Stafford, a LEGO employee, has confirmed that LDD will remain available and continue to update regularly. So no worries there.

[RoxYourBlox]

Mark Stafford, a LEGO employee, has confirmed that LDD will remain available and continue to update regularly. So no worries there.

Yes, I had read his comments. Nevertheless, I want to say "thank you" and "please keep LDD going" in case any Lego employees browse this board.

Edited November 11, 2011 by RoxYourBlox

[Toa_Of_Justice]

Yes, I had read his comments. Nevertheless, I want to say "thank you" and "please keep LDD going" in case any Lego employees browse this board.

I'd say there's a pretty good chance of LEGO employees browsing this board. For one thing, there are at least several LEGO employees that are members here (such as Front and Nabii).

In addition, I sent a link to this topic to LEGO Customer Service and asked them to send your suggestions on to the appropriate people.

Let's hope for the best, everyone!

-Toa Of Justice

[Toa_Of_Justice]

After I sent them my suggestions, I got the following reply from LEGO Customer Service:

Dear Steven,

Thank you for your follow-up email from 11/15/11 regarding the changes to our web site in general and to LDD specifically.

From your emails, I can definitely hear there is a lot of passion about LEGO® in your household, and we are sorry to hear that you are disappointed with the demise of LDD. We realize that it is frustrating for you, as well. As you can imagine, Steven, any web site is a work in progress! It certainly is not our intention to disappoint a valued fan and creative builder like you. Each day, our web site developers are making many changes to our site so that it better suits the needs of our consumers. Your ideas and suggestions will be documented in our system and shared in monthly reports with our creative partners and web design teams.

You can read all about the details of the upcoming changes for our free LDD program at the link below. Right now all we can confirm is that LDD as currently designed will end in January 2012. What future direction an online design program will take is still in the hands of the designers.

http://designbyme.lego.com/en-US/news/default.aspx?id=302930

Additionally, you can also try LDraw (a third party software), which may interest you. Please note that this website is not affiliated with The LEGO Group.

Thank you again for contacting us again. If you have any further questions, please feel free to reply to this email or call one of our friendly Customer Care Advisors at 1-800-835-4386 (from within the US or Canada) or 1-860-749-0706 (from outside the US or Canada). We are available Monday through Friday from 8AM - 10PM EST and Saturday through Sunday from 10AM to 6PM EST. Please have your reference number handy if you need to get in touch with us: <removed>

Happy building!

Moira

LEGO Direct Consumer Services

Bolded text is my emphasis.

By the way, she got the date wrong--I sent my e-mail on 11/11/11, not 11/15/11.

-Toa Of Justice

[Superkalle]

That was a standard corporate answer you got there Toa_of_justice.

Interesting though that they direct you to LDraw.

Anyway, I got some info yesterday from "a very reliable source in TLG" (anyone who's been in this forum for some time know what that means ). The message was as clear as could be: LDD is NOT going to be shut down. There will be an update in January that will remove DbM and LU-mode (which comes as no surprise). These modes will be replaced by something else. Extended mode will still be around, possibly now even out of the box. A pretty extensive brick update can be expected.

Well, that was pretty much what I was told. Feels reassuring to me at least

[Toa_Of_Justice]

That was a standard corporate answer you got there Toa_of_justice.

Interesting though that they direct you to LDraw.

Anyway, I got some info yesterday from "a very reliable source in TLG" (anyone who's been in this forum for some time know what that means ). The message was as clear as could be: LDD is NOT going to be shut down. There will be an update in January that will remove DbM and LU-mode (which comes as no surprise). These modes will be replaced by something else. Extended mode will still be around, possibly now even out of the box. A pretty extensive brick update can be expected.

Well, that was pretty much what I was told. Feels reassuring to me at least

I had a feeling that answer was a standard corporate one. I figured that I'd share it anyway though. I'm glad I did too, because thanks to your reply, I now know more about the future of LDD than the customer service reps at LEGO seem to know. I wonder what the replacement modes will be. I wish one of them were tied into Pick A Brick though! Perhaps you should suggest that to your secret informant, along with vynsane's modules ideas. I'm sure LEGO wouldn't mind the additional potential revenue sources, and I'd probably order many things through the Pick A Brick mode.

-Toa Of Justice

[Brickdoctor]

Personally, I can't think of any simpler way to produce a custom set than from a consumers provided digital model, so if there is indeed a replacement for DbM down the road, then I would think there would come with it an update to LDD or a different but official LEGO CAD program coming with it.

[Lalror]

I think everyone in the LDD forum would like a better more fully featured CAD program. I am kinda hoping that Lego will start taking LDD in that direction although it may just be easier for them to re-do it completely. It is so annoying that they already have their Easy Builder Tool for maya but won't release it to us fans. I mean seriously, everyone here would love that and yet Lego thinks that for some reason it's a bad idea. All they really need is a piece/texture library plugin that would work with most professional 3D platforms out there. That would be fine with me.

Lastly, when is Lego going to realize the potential that the properties had in Lego Universe. That concept of being able to build your own world and then play in it is so unbelievably awesome and for some reason Lego is so blind to it.

~Lalror

[Aanchir]

I think everyone in the LDD forum would like a better more fully featured CAD program. I am kinda hoping that Lego will start taking LDD in that direction although it may just be easier for them to re-do it completely. It is so annoying that they already have their Easy Builder Tool for maya but won't release it to us fans. I mean seriously, everyone here would love that and yet Lego thinks that for some reason it's a bad idea. All they really need is a piece/texture library plugin that would work with most professional 3D platforms out there. That would be fine with me.

Lastly, when is Lego going to realize the potential that the properties had in Lego Universe. That concept of being able to build your own world and then play in it is so unbelievably awesome and for some reason Lego is so blind to it.

~Lalror

I don't think the problem is that LEGO was blind to it; I think the problem was that -consumers- were blind to it. In other words, not enough people saw the value in the full subscription, and unfortunately that meant that LEGO Universe wasn't generating the revenue it would take to keep it running and keep adding new things.

On BZPower (a relatively major BIONICLE fansite that has recently expanded its focus to other LEGO themes), I've seen a couple decent suggestions for new modes of LDD to replace Design byME mode. One of these was a mode to tie in with Master Builder Academy, which I think would be a great idea, even though I'm not sure whether it could bring in revenue for LDD. Another idea that I've personally considered is a mode that uses Pick-A-Brick parts (in other words, basically Design byME mode without the ordering-things aspect) and then gives you a parts list to order from Pick-A-Brick. That would have multiple benefits as it would allow ordering LDD models IRL just like Design byME without all the bells and whistles that drove up the cost of Design byME.

Glad to hear we can still expect an extensive brick update in January.

[Calabar]

An idea (I don't know if already exposed) could be to improve the "Filter Bricks by Boxes" function adding new sets, especially the creator ones.

The goal would be to create many alternative models for these sets.

For example recently I bought the set 5867 (Super Speedster), a creator set with three main models. Moreover there was available the instructions of a forth model via Lego Club. And, finally, I found a MOCer that created other nine extra model (all very good, imho!).

Imagine now to use LDD to create alternative models of official LEGO Sets, than share that and insert the models in the LEGO site in a classification where users can assign a vote to each model. Then you could access to these alternate models both from a global classification, then directly through the set's page.

I think this will increase the appeal of a set.

I have to admit that reason I bought the set 5867 was hevily influenced by the chance to build the extra models.

[Lalror]

The problem was Lego Universe, not Lego or the fans. If Lego had dropped the rest of the game and focused on the fact that they had the perfect sandbox and developed it more they could have turned the game into something other than just another marketing scheme.

[nemo]

I think the problem with LU runs deeper than that. LU is a video game. By all commercial measures it has been an unsuccessful one. There’s no shortage of unsuccessful video games. Something like two out of three game studios fail because of this. It’s difficult enough to make a successful single-player game, but MMOs are particularly prone to failure.

So LU has failed. Meanwhile Travellers Tales have been successfully printing money with Lego video games. If anyone can make something like LU that actually appeals to the mass market, it will be TT. The thing is, I can’t see such a thing being much like LU. The nearest many people get to Lego is their Playstation, Xbox or DS these days. Consequently design and build is clearly much less important to such consumers than play. I suspect that is where future Lego game attention will be focussed.

The alternative would be to emulate LittleBigPlanet and build a platform that doesn’t just allow assets to be built, but entire gameplay experiences utilising those assets. The danger is that a Sackboy is a lot cuter than a Minifig. And finally, MediaMolecule have succeeded where Lego failed by delivering a game that encouraged people to keep buying content. It’s difficult to do that when you have already handed over the means for building any content!

[RoxYourBlox]

I also support the ideas for LDD to include a part list and pick-a-brick option. I don't really need the box, and none of my DbM purchases included instructions anyway. Here's hoping!

[vynsane]

On BZPower (a relatively major BIONICLE fansite that has recently expanded its focus to other LEGO themes), I've seen a couple decent suggestions for new modes of LDD to replace Design byME mode. One of these was a mode to tie in with Master Builder Academy

Where is that post? I'd like to see what ideas they have, as it sounds a lot like what I posted on page 2 here. Who knows, if enough people start talking about it, they might make it happen!

I'm glad that Superkalle is getting more clear indicators that LDD is going to keep on truckin', but I'm still cautiously optimistic. We could either see a real renaissance for LDD now that it's unfettered by DbM and LU, or see it languish since it might not get the same business support it did via those avenues.

[SpiderSpaceman]

Lastly, when is Lego going to realize the potential that the properties had in Lego Universe. That concept of being able to build your own world and then play in it is so unbelievably awesome and for some reason Lego is so blind to it.

Yeah, like I keep saying, they gots to make a run around mode in LDD. Creator done it! Minecraft done it!

[Superkalle]

About a link between LDD and PickABrick:

Yes, that would be nice. As I understand, the reasons it could not be done up until now was that TLG was more interested in the concept about a custom building experience, and wanted to wrap that up in a complete product (the DbM box). This would signal a complete LEGO product (with everything that it stands for). PickABrick is more aimed at single bricks, and connecting LDD with PaB would create another product offer. However, with DbM now gone, I personally hope that TLG can re-consider linking together LDD with PaB. Technically, we're just talking about populating PaB from an LXF-file - nothing needs to be changed at PaB at all.

About LEGO Universe:

When LEGO Universe came out, my kids (two boys in the TLG target age) where playing Maple Story, LOL etc. I.e micro payment games. Download of internet (no CD), play for free, and then pay small sums to purchase upgrades, clothes etc for. And if they weren't playing that, they where playing some independent low priced games like MineCraft or cheap 1 buck IPod games. Sure, they are playing "full priced" games too, but a majority is low-priced games. Everybody at their school are playing these sort of games too and there seems to be a word-to-mouth phenomena here.

I heard that the reasons TLG couldn't take LEGO Universe into this type micro payment is that TLG cannot be associated with product where you charge kids small amounts of money - there could be all kinds of implications (nagging parents about money, lost control about what games their kids play etc). And when you think about it, all other game producers don't have the same kind of ultra-strong brand name as LEGO that is associated with creativity, safety and responsibility. TLG wants to come across as trustworthy from a parents perspective. One consequence was for example the very limited chat functionality in LEGO Universe where kids couldn't even write numbers (which could be used to give out phone numbers to each other, and thus also to potential pederasts and child molesters). The result was of course a very dull interactive experience. I'm not expert, but I think other games producers are not limited by these sort of restrictions.

[Whiteagle]

An idea (I don't know if already exposed) could be to improve the "Filter Bricks by Boxes" function adding new sets, especially the creator ones.

The goal would be to create many alternative models for these sets.

For example recently I bought the set 5867 (Super Speedster), a creator set with three main models. Moreover there was available the instructions of a forth model via Lego Club. And, finally, I found a MOCer that created other nine extra model (all very good, imho!).

Imagine now to use LDD to create alternative models of official LEGO Sets, than share that and insert the models in the LEGO site in a classification where users can assign a vote to each model. Then you could access to these alternate models both from a global classification, then directly through the set's page.

I think this will increase the appeal of a set.

I have to admit that reason I bought the set 5867 was hevily influenced by the chance to build the extra models.

I actually was thinking of something along these lines.

Back when LDD was first released it was packaged with the Brickmaster kit, essentially just a box containing the contents of the four original X-Pod sets.

If I'm remembering correctly, the pieces featured in the program were just the ones you got in the box.

So, I do wonder if the next "Vanilla" LDD mode could be one where you would choose different on-the-shelf Lego sets to use the parts of for your vitual builds, then just be able to go out and buy those sets so you can build it.

Still, it would be nice to be able to use LDD to bring your custom computerized concepts to life, but then again I don't know much about this Pick a Brick service everyone is talking about, so maybe that could work.

[vynsane]

The idea of having a palette or 'building mode' that includes currently-available sets sounds like a solid idea. Taking it one step further, if the successor to Design byMe was an expanded version that allowed you to build custom creations based on the retail offerings at that time, it would ensure a broader selection of pieces while at the same time theoretically reducing the over-all cost, because it would be shared with the standard retail wing. They sort of did this with Atlantis sometime last year, but I don't think you could order the minifigures and the piece selection was still a fraction of what that line encompassed.

Imagine if, this year, you could have designed your own custom Alien Conquest MOC, complete with the minifigures, stickers, printed pieces, etc. This could be perceived as cutting into retail sales, so maybe some pieces would be made available only after you already own a set - if Earth Defense HQ came with a secret code to unlock the pieces necessary to order additional Vic Viper fighters via DbM 2.0, that would sell like GANGBUSTERS! Alternatively they could include discount coupons good only for DbM 2.0 orders using the Alien Conquest building mode (or whatever theme the set purchased fell under).

The up-side for LEGO would be the perception of exclusivity - since the retail offerings are only produced/available for a limited time, so too would the corresponding pieces in DbM 2.0. "Last month to order your custom Pharaoh's Quest sets!" or "ADU pilot minifigure torsos available now for a limited time only!"

[Whiteagle]

Imagine if, this year, you could have designed your own custom Alien Conquest MOC, complete with the minifigures, stickers, printed pieces, etc. This could be perceived as cutting into retail sales, so maybe some pieces would be made available only after you already own a set - if Earth Defense HQ came with a secret code to unlock the pieces necessary to order additional Vic Viper fighters via DbM 2.0, that would sell like GANGBUSTERS! Alternatively they could include discount coupons good only for DbM 2.0 orders using the Alien Conquest building mode (or whatever theme the set purchased fell under).

The up-side for LEGO would be the perception of exclusivity - since the retail offerings are only produced/available for a limited time, so too would the corresponding pieces in DbM 2.0. "Last month to order your custom Pharaoh's Quest sets!" or "ADU pilot minifigure torsos available now for a limited time only!"

Eh... I don't like the idea of needing to buy the sets first in order to unlock pieces.

In fact, I was thinking quite the opposite, where LDD's primary mode would have you choose your building palette from sets available on the shelf.

That way, not only you could have an idea of what you could build with a single set, you would also know which sets you'd need to build something.

Then, a secondary LDD mode would act sort of like the current DbM, where you could order custom builds, albeit in a plain bag and probably at an increased price.

...Though your comment on the "Vic Viper" jet that comes with the Earth Defense HQ does make me wonder why a smaller component vehicle like that isn't available as an individual set.

[vynsane]

I understand where you're coming from but look at it from TLG's perspective - if they made all the retail sets available for you to pick and choose which pieces you wanted to order via DbM 2.0, there would be little incentive for you to buy the whole set at retail (a lot of people would have ordered a "custom" Earth Defense HQ starfighter and called it a day), unless they made the service prohibitively expensive to do it that way, which would just perpetuate the main issue with DbM 1.0.

That's not to say that our ideas are mutually exclusive. It could be two separate building modes - in 'Official Set Mode' you can view and build virtually with all the pieces presently available at retail, then it would tell you which sets you needed to buy in order to actually build it. In 'Design byMe 2.0' you would be able to order the full-custom design based on the 'baseline' brick palette and any 'special bricks' you had unlocked via the secret code cards (or whatever).

Perhaps, instead, you would unlock brand new complete building modes with the secret code. If you subscribe to Master Builder Academy, you get a code to unlock "MBA Mode" which lets you virtually build with all the bricks from Kit 1 to the most recent kit mailed out and order what you designed. If you entered certain codes from retail sets that came in Pharaoh's Quest sets (maybe one code from each of the smaller sets would unlock it in conjunction, or just a single code that was included in the Scorpion Pyramid would do the same thing, to make it more of a value and incentive to buy it), you would unlock "Pharaoh's Quest mode".

"Extended Mode" would just give you all pieces the way it does currently.

[Whiteagle]

I understand where you're coming from but look at it from TLG's perspective - if they made all the retail sets available for you to pick and choose which pieces you wanted to order via DbM 2.0, there would be little incentive for you to buy the whole set at retail (a lot of people would have ordered a "custom" Earth Defense HQ starfighter and called it a day), unless they made the service prohibitively expensive to do it that way, which would just perpetuate the main issue with DbM 1.0.

...Vynsane, what are you talking about?

The idea isn't that you just pick and choose pieces from all the retail sets and just buy the ones you want, it's that you'd choose different sets part list to fill out your palette.

Like say I chose to work with a single 7913 Clone Trooper Battle Pack, then the Brick Palette would have all the pieces that come with 7913.

You could then add different sets to see what you could build before you buy them.

The problem with DbM 1.0 was that it was aimed at children, most of which probably couldn't be bother to figure out how to build a coherent custom creation, let alone get their parents to buy it.

Any DbM 2.0 should probably be reworked to suit the needs of more Hardcore Lego Maniacs, providing a more accessible means of bringing their creations to life.

That's not to say that our ideas are mutually exclusive. It could be two separate building modes - in 'Official Set Mode' you can view and build virtually with all the pieces presently available at retail, then it would tell you which sets you needed to buy in order to actually build it. In 'Design byMe 2.0' you would be able to order the full-custom design based on the 'baseline' brick palette and any 'special bricks' you had unlocked via the secret code cards (or whatever).

Perhaps, instead, you would unlock brand new complete building modes with the secret code. If you subscribe to Master Builder Academy, you get a code to unlock "MBA Mode" which lets you virtually build with all the bricks from Kit 1 to the most recent kit mailed out and order what you designed. If you entered certain codes from retail sets that came in Pharaoh's Quest sets (maybe one code from each of the smaller sets would unlock it in conjunction, or just a single code that was included in the Scorpion Pyramid would do the same thing, to make it more of a value and incentive to buy it), you would unlock "Pharaoh's Quest mode".

"Extended Mode" would just give you all pieces the way it does currently.

...Your "Official Set Mode" is pretty much exactly what I was talking about, but why all these codes?

Seriously, this isn't a Bionicle marketing gimmick, it's already a tool to advertise the product.

And yes, an "Extended Mode" is a must for any iteration of LDD.