Why were the 2005 city sets so bad?

[Aanchir]

I myself dislike the big vehicles of post-2005 City. I don’t buy the reasoning that the scale of cars to minifigs is more authentic, as now the vehicles positively dwarf the surrounding buildings. Why not make the buildings in a more realistic scale too? Becaue it would take a ridiculous amount of time and bricks and space and, ultimately, money. So, they should have kept the vehicles at roughly LEGO Town scale. In this review of set 6394 by Rapseflaps, he shows how out of scale the new cars look (scroll down to the last part of the review).

Now, Six-wide cars I can live with (to an extent, the bus from 7641 City Corner is simply a behemoth). But the vehicles just seem to grow taller and wider. It seems LEGO City is entering its SUV era, in contrast to the real world where smaller and more economical cars are the trend. Seems like LEGO City doesn’t have problems with rising gas prices.

The oversized construction sets don’t actually bug me that much, as I (personally) see them as independent of LEGO City. But since 2005 is when this trend started, I consider it a disappointing year, and I voted accordingly. And yes, I consider this scaling issue to be a bigger problem than Town Jr. That’s not to say I don’t like the City theme. The minifigs are great and some sets are nice, and I noticed that it moved away a great deal from racing, a permanent and sometimes overpowering subtheme of LEGO Town. It seemed like the whole town was built around the racing business – I bet that’s why it had such a large police force, they needed to clamp down on the ubiquitous speeding and race fixing.

Sorry for making this a scaling rant.

I, for one, disagree. I like how there's now a wider range of sizes for vehicles in LEGO City. Back when stuff was invariably 4 studs wide, most cars were about the same size. Now, we have varations, with compact cars using the old 4x7 chassis, sleek, medium-sized sports cars, and finally SUVs like in the 4WD and Horse Trailer set. Then there are trucks and buses which are even larger.

I much prefer this to old LEGO Town scales, and to be honest I would even argue that there aren't enough 6-wide vehicles in LEGO City, and those which there are haven't yet perfected the system, since 6-wide is the minimum even-number width at which you can have two minifigures seated next to each other in an enclosed vehicle. I like that sense of realism compared to the four-stud standard of years past, since now there are road vehicles that can fit more than one minifigure-- even if so far, TLG hasn't been much more ambitious than just seating minifigures one in front of the other.

I understand how it's largely a matter of opinion, and I agree that it's a bit of a problem that as vehicle scales have grown more realistic, building scales have not adjusted to match. I'm not much of a City buyer myself, so my opinion probably doesn't count too much anyway-- most of the City building I do is building vehicles from real life either using physical bricks or LDD. Still, I much prefer the varied sizes of today's City vehicles to the exclusively-four-stud-wide vehicles that used to be ubiquitous in LEGO Town.

If there were signs that LEGO City vehicles had grown significantly in size since six-stud vehicles began to emerge, then I would definitely agree that it's a process I want to halt. I love the enormously-oversized vehicles in themes like Agents; don't get me wrong. But even though I don't buy City sets, I pay close attention to what goes on in the City theme because I feel it is the ruler by which all other themes are measured. It sets the standard for "real life" in LEGO, whether in terms of scale or level of detail. And while I tolerate things which are oversized by necessity like buses, a continuous drift towards larger road vehicles would not be to my liking.

Incidentally, my preferred scale for building road vehicles from real life is 1:36. I think this is a comfortable midpoint between a 1:48 width-based scale (which would tend to make minifigures three feet tall but a comfortably two feet wide with arms at their sides) and a 1:24 height-based scale (which would make them six feet tall but four feet wide with arms at their sides). A Ford Excursion, a fairly large SUV, would be seven studs wide at this scale, which is the perfect size for using a six-stud chassis plus the current wheel well piece. A smart car, one of the smallest compact cars ubiquitous in the United States, would be around four studs wide, which matches the Small Car set's proportions almost exactly.

But I understand that this scale is not realistic for all LEGO City vehicles. Cargo ships, spacecraft, and passenger aircraft would become obscenely large if this sort of scale were applied consistently for all LEGO City sets. Sometimes it just comes down to what size is necessary to depict all the features you want to include, and what size fits best in a City layout.

[MrZ]

I agree that the scale is fine and I prefer the 6-stud wide trucks compared to the unrealistic 4-stud wide trucks from the 1980s/90s. You also have to remember that vehicles in general have gotten much larger since the 1980s. Back in the 80s, a typical SUV was a modestly sized 2-door vehicle, perhaps even shorter than a standard car in length. Today, they are enormous by comparison. Even standard cars have become much wider since the 80s. So in a way Lego is simply mirroring reality.

[lightningtiger]

How did 2005 sets become a battle between 4 wide and 6 wide designs ?

I wrote yesterday it's up to the designers whim at what comes out and if that designer likes a particular design either vehicle or building that's what gets produced.

[Ardelon]

I, for one, disagree. I like how there's now a wider range of sizes for vehicles in LEGO City. Back when stuff was invariably 4 studs wide, most cars were about the same size. Now, we have varations, with compact cars using the old 4x7 chassis, sleek, medium-sized sports cars, and finally SUVs like in the 4WD and Horse Trailer set. Then there are trucks and buses which are even larger.

I much prefer this to old LEGO Town scales, and to be honest I would even argue that there aren't enough 6-wide vehicles in LEGO City, and those which there are haven't yet perfected the system, since 6-wide is the minimum even-number width at which you can have two minifigures seated next to each other in an enclosed vehicle. I like that sense of realism compared to the four-stud standard of years past, since now there are road vehicles that can fit more than one minifigure-- even if so far, TLG hasn't been much more ambitious than just seating minifigures one in front of the other.

...

But I understand that this scale is not realistic for all LEGO City vehicles. Cargo ships, spacecraft, and passenger aircraft would become obscenely large if this sort of scale were applied consistently for all LEGO City sets. Sometimes it just comes down to what size is necessary to depict all the features you want to include, and what size fits best in a City layout.

Well, there’s this piece to fit 2 figs in a 4-wider; <insert that tiresome argument> as it may be, I think it works very well.

Variety is fine, but when small cars look like bumper cars next to the trucks, it strains my suspension of disbelief. 7642 shows this neatly even within one set, with the blue pickup and the orange truck. A major gripe for me isn’t necessarily just the width, but the height, with the bumpers and grilles being 4-5 bricks high, as seen on the red and orange trucks. It seems the cabin of the orange truck is higher than the pickup is long, and it contributes to the gargantuan appaerance of the new super trucks.

My point is, the new large vehicles do not fit the City layout (buildings (not counting modulars), aircraft and large ships). But, as you said, it’s a matter of opinion and ones requirement as a MOCer.

How did 2005 sets become a battle between 4 wide and 6 wide designs ?

There is a slight connection in that 2005 was the year the vehicles started growing, at least from what I could discern from brickset.com.

[Aanchir]

Well, there’s this piece to fit 2 figs in a 4-wider; <insert that tiresome argument> as it may be, I think it works very well.

I agree, but keep in mind that while the piece is made for a 4-wide chassis, it's usually used on vehicles with at least a 6-wide wheelbase. Also note that I mentioned an enclosed vehicle-- one of the flaws of that part is that it is difficult to use on anything but a convertible. The Indiana Jones theme did a fairly good job in the sets 7682 and 7622, but both of those sets' vehicles are 6-wide.

Variety is fine, but when small cars look like bumper cars next to the trucks, it strains my suspension of disbelief. 7642 shows this neatly even within one set, with the blue pickup and the orange truck. A major gripe for me isn’t necessarily just the width, but the height, with the bumpers and grilles being 4-5 bricks high, as seen on the red and orange trucks. It seems the cabin of the orange truck is higher than the pickup is long, and it contributes to the gargantuan appaerance of the new super trucks.

I think the blue pickup in that set looks very realistic compared to the larger trucks. I have seen similarly-small delivery trucks in real life, even though I couldn't tell you the model without significant research. Wikipedia isn't helping me; can't find any that quite resemble the ones I've seen. The Mini Pickup Truck is even smaller than any I remember. The Kei truck is somewhat similar in shape and size, but it doesn't mention anything about them being used in Europe, and I remember some type of small pick-up trucks from my trip to Rome several years ago.

The height of the orange truck does seem a bit excessive, and I agree that there are other sets where that is also a problem. But then again, a quick look at one of the images on Wikipedia's Tow Truck article suggests that it might be based on the Volvo FH12, which is a massive vehicle in its own right.

My point is, the new large vehicles do not fit the City layout (buildings (not counting modulars), aircraft and large ships). But, as you said, it’s a matter of opinion and ones requirement as a MOCer.

Agreed. It's really a matter of perspective. I suppose I'm not an excellent judge of this as it has been forever since I have owned a City set that included a building, and I tend to use LEGO road plates more than buildings as my reference when measuring whether a vehicle I build on LDD is excessive in size.

[Ardelon]

@ Aanchir: Points taken.