Anyone any good at designing machines?

[RubeusHagrid]

Hi,

I'm working on a project, I don't want to give too much away at this stage, but I'd like to make a vending style machine, that can automatically dispense parts from the BL part numbers, inputted by a computer. If anyone has any experience/background in this, please come forward, as I'm stuck!

Thanks

Matthew

[davee123]

I'm working on a project, I don't want to give too much away at this stage, but I'd like to make a vending style machine, that can automatically dispense parts from the BL part numbers, inputted by a computer. If anyone has any experience/background in this, please come forward, as I'm stuck!

What are you stuck on? How big is your part library that you want to dispense? And what sizes of parts are you looking at dispensing? It sounds pretty straightforward until you get to the different types of mechanisms you'd need for each element to ensure that exactly X pieces are dispensed. Like, dispensing an exact number of 2x4 bricks is reasonably easy, but if you need to dispense an exact number of 1/2 technic bushings, you might need a different mechanism.

DaveE

[RubeusHagrid]

What are you stuck on? How big is your part library that you want to dispense? And what sizes of parts are you looking at dispensing? It sounds pretty straightforward until you get to the different types of mechanisms you'd need for each element to ensure that exactly X pieces are dispensed. Like, dispensing an exact number of 2x4 bricks is reasonably easy, but if you need to dispense an exact number of 1/2 technic bushings, you might need a different mechanism.

DaveE

I was thinking more of parts already in ziploc bags, so perhaps a pin or something might do it.

[davee123]

I was thinking more of parts already in ziploc bags, so perhaps a pin or something might do it.

You mean dispensing an entire Ziploc bag with a single element inside it? Like, a baggie with a single 1x4 tile in it or something? Is the idea to make a LEGO vending machine that you could set up at an event, and let people purchase from?

DaveE

[LEGO Guy Bri]

You mean dispensing an entire Ziploc bag with a single element inside it? Like, a baggie with a single 1x4 tile in it or something?

That might be to uneconomical for one single part per bag ([x(piece price) + x(bags]) = excess in ziplocks). But, like you said in your second post numerous small bulk purchases could work. (e.g. - 10 or 20 1x4 tiles for x amount of dollars would seem much appealing IMO. Or maybe a combo pack that has pieces for a similar build (e.g. 1x4 tiles + 1x4 bricks etc). In that case, 'RubeusHagid', all you'd need to do is design a dispensing system similar to that of a soda or snack machine with smaller and more dispenser rows and shelves. This sounds like a great idea and I hope I could help (even if a little). Best of luck

[RubeusHagrid]

Basically, the idea is to produce a machine that can pick Bricklink orders, for large stores, with the equivalent of those machines, except going much further back, and being very long. It has a conveyor belt with crates/baskets on along the bottom, and you can input what you want it to 'pick' with a text file of the BL order numbers.

[brickmack]

Perhaps something like what they have on a regular vending machine would work, with a small hole through the bag, which a stationary technic axle would fit through. Underneath that would be a piston type thing that would push the bags from behind until the first one dropped off the axle at front, and fell into the bucket or whatever. I might suggest also that it would probably be easier to have buttons on the machine (NXT touch sensors perhaps?) to choose what bags to get, with a removable paper card next to it showing what part type each button is for. It probably should have a light or something next to it also that would come on when it runs out of each part type. Unfortunately, this would take a lot of mindstorms bricks to control the various motors and lights and everything. Maybe you could put in a small laptop (a netbook would probably work) programmed with all of the stuff needed to control the machine, with some sort of adapter to connect to the motors and whatnot. There should also be some sort of sensor to detect how much money is being inserted to get paid, this you might have to use an actual vending machine coin slot for since I don't think there are any LEGO sensors accurate enough for this. Unfortunately, to get enough parts for this (especially the sensors and other electronics), plus the computer if you don't already have a useable one, is going to cost a LOT of money (probably nearly a thousand dollars would be my estimate, assuming a machine the height of an average vending machine, and going back a few rows, not including the computer and cable adapters. Because of all this, you're going to have to mark up the prices a lot to even break even probably.

Edited September 10, 2011 by brickmack

[Pingles]

Might be better to have a standard price for all the purchases.

In other words every bag in the machine is $2.00 but the bags have a different qty of pieces, depending on part size, etc.

EDIT: Sorry, just read the further description and I am way off. Disregard my suggestion. :)

Edited September 10, 2011 by Pingles

[davee123]

Perhaps something like what they have on a regular vending machine would work, with a small hole through the bag, which a stationary technic axle would fit through. Underneath that would be a piston type thing that would push the bags from behind until the first one dropped off the axle at front, and fell into the bucket or whatever.

Yeah, that's similar to what I was thinking if it's a vending machine-- if they're in pre-packed baggies, it makes the machine's job easier. I was thinking the reverse, though-- retracting the axle so that the first one falls off (same difference, really). I might even suggest interspersing 1xN technic beams (or otherwise) in between baggies during packing in order to guarantee that only 1 gets dropped at a time (otherwise, friction with the axle might cause them to bunch up and drop multiples).

Unfortunately, to get enough parts for this (especially the sensors and other electronics), plus the computer if you don't already have a useable one, is going to cost a LOT of money (probably nearly a thousand dollars would be my estimate

Yeah, I would agree, although I'd place the cost even higher, depending of course on what you've already got handy. If you've already got 100,000 spare bricks lying around, plus enough technic parts to manage it, you could do it for relatively cheap. But you'd be using up a LOT of elements.

... Except, it sounds like he's NOT actually looking to make a vending machine. He's looking to do an automatic parts-picker for BrickLink sellers. So on the plus side, it doesn't have to accept money or have an overly intuitive interface. And it doesn't need protective sidewalls or a "clear" front for prospective buyers.

However, the scope becomes pretty outlandish at that point. It goes from maybe 50-100 different elements to something like 1000+ elements. Many of the big BrickLink stores have something like 2000+ different parts. At that point, something constructed vertically out of LEGO becomes nightmarish cost-wise. I think you'd be better off to build it out of 2"x4"s and plywood and have a few LEGO mechanisms rather than build it entirely out of LEGO bricks.

The upshot would be that you could (in theory) pretty easily hook it into a BrickLink order system, if controlled via an external machine (laptop, desktop, or otherwise). With those interfaces, you could automatically sign into BrickLink, look up the order number, and parse out the necessary element list and quantity. Then, translate the part number/color combos to locations/bin numbers/whatever, and send that list to the NXT(s) needed to control the picking system. So-- that part's pretty feasible.

Anyway, good luck! Sounds like it would be a monster of a project!

DaveE

[Zeon]

Considering that LEGO invested quite a lot on part sorting/packaging and is weighting the bags six times, they still do mistakes. I wonder the rate of mis-packed parts with a rough (sorry, to set a hand made machine against a zillion dollar LEGO owned fine machinery, you come out as rough) mechanism. Not to talk about that the vendors usually have their own sorting/storing system witch they had to abandon and feed the parts into your storage system combined with the conveyor belt. (Not to talk about the amount of work needed for sorting via amount of work needed for getting parts for an order from your sorted storage.)

Generally, it's a nice idea, but I have to admit it: I'm not creative enough to think up a working solution for this. A camera enabled image recognition system with a robot arm for sorting... well, that's something to start with :)

edit: typo

Edited September 10, 2011 by Zeon

[RubeusHagrid]

I think you'd be better off to build it out of 2"x4"s and plywood and have a few LEGO mechanisms rather than build it entirely out of LEGO bricks.

I didn't make it at all clear, but I didn't intend to build the majority (if any) of it from LEGO...

[brickmack]

I didn't make it at all clear, but I didn't intend to build the majority (if any) of it from LEGO...

Oh. well that makes it much easier. You could just find the designs for an ordinary vending machine online and elongate it.

[davee123]

I didn't make it at all clear, but I didn't intend to build the majority (if any) of it from LEGO...

Hmm. I think you may be posting in the wrong forum, then!

DaveE

[RubeusHagrid]

Hmm. I think you may be posting in the wrong forum, then!

DaveE

I debated for several days, and decided that I would post as it was sort of LEGO related. I then completely screwed up by posting before going to bed, instead of waiting until I was properly awake...

Now I have posted though, I'm wondering about using mindstorms. Do you think it would be much more expensive?

[Drudoo]

You can check his out: http://www.norgesgade14.dk/candy.php

I build a similar machine once. The biggest problem is to count the coins correctly.