Heroica RPG - Quest Masters' Lounge

[Brickdoctor]

I believe this is what you are thinking of ...

It was in response to the idea of merging different weapons to combine effects, but the same idea could easily present itself with things like a "Honing stone of stunning".

It was, thanks. Slightly different mechanic proposal, then, but you are correct: giving a weapon a special effect is just like merging it with another weapon with that effect.

[Sandy]

So, out of curiosity, was there an official yea or nay on this suggestion?

Sorry, I seem to have forgotten to answer that suggestion. I don't want that individual weapons have too many special effects, so I'm going to say no to honing stones. Again we come back to the issue that a single hero shouldn't be able to do everything, that's why we have parties and different job classes.

[Flipz]

Sorry, I seem to have forgotten to answer that suggestion. I don't want that individual weapons have too many special effects, so I'm going to say no to honing stones. Again we come back to the issue that a single hero shouldn't be able to do everything, that's why we have parties and different job classes.

Now, what would you say to consumable venoms that only last for a single battle? Along the lines of Pie's Noxious Venom, but for various different Effects?

I.E.: Draught of Living Death - Consumable, venom. When applied to a weapon, that weapon will deal the Fast Asleep-effect (the enemy is unable to act for six rounds unless it is woken up by an attack) for one battle.

Edited April 13, 2013 by Flipz

[Scorpiox]

Now, what would you say to consumable venoms that only last for a single battle? Along the lines of Pie's Noxious Venom, but for various different Effects?

I.E.: Draught of Living Death - Consumbale, venom. When applied to a weapon, that weapon will deal the Fast Asleep-effect (the enemy is unable to act for six rounds unless it is woken up by an attack) for one battle.

This sounds like a very good idea. Having one-use status effect infliction is far more fair and balanced than permanent additions, whilst still adding an interesting flavour to battles. They'd be like the scrolls of the non-ether users.

[Flipz]

This sounds like a very good idea. Having one-use status effect infliction is far more fair and balanced than permanent additions, whilst still adding an interesting flavour to battles. They'd be like the scrolls of the non-ether users.

I'm surprised Pie was (to my knowledge) the first to come up with and use the idea, and even more surprised no other QMs (again, to my knowledge) have played with the concept since then.

Edited April 13, 2013 by Flipz

[CMP]

I got the idea of rare venoms from Scuba's Paralyzing Venom. There's also Flare's later Super Deadly Venom, but I think that's it.

[Brickdoctor]

I tried to give Pie Insanely Overpowered Venom during Grogmas, but Sandy didn't let that happen.

[CMP]

I tried to give Pie Insanely Overpowered Venom during Grogmas, but Sandy didn't let that happen.

Physical venom isn't all that useful to me anyway. Just give me a Witch's Talisman of Insanely Overpowered Venom.

[Flipz]

I got the idea of rare venoms from Scuba's Paralyzing Venom. There's also Flare's later Super Deadly Venom, but I think that's it.

I'm not so sure they should all be rare--after all, an Alcoholic Venom (When applied to that weapon, that weapon will deal the Confused-effect (the enemy has a 1/2 chance of hitting a random ally instead of the target with every DAMAGE or SPECIAL DAMAGE rolled for it or with Free Hits for three rounds) for the duration of one battle) needn't be AS rare as Noxious Venom (When used on a weapon, the weapon deals the Badly Poisoned effect for the duration of the battle and the Confused effect for the next three rounds, for the duration of one battle.)

In my mind, basic effect venoms (like Draught of Living Death or Alcoholic Venom) should be about as rare as gems or scrolls (or, even better, about as rare as Deadly Venom in terms of drop frequency), while combination or powerful effect venoms (such as Noxious Venom, which applies both Deadly Poisoned AND Confused, or Plague Venom, which deals 15 damage per Round AND -1 SP) should be about as rare as they currently are.

I would agree with keeping effect venoms as drops-only, though, no need to add them to the Marketplace except on special occasions--maybe poor Portia could stock two or three different varieties for the month each time Elphaba comes in, as a way of leveling the playing field a bit?

Edited April 13, 2013 by Flipz

[Brickdoctor]

Iocane - Odorless. Tasteless. When applied to a weapon, that weapon will instantly Knock Out the target on a successful hit. Applying Iocane to a weapon causes all enemies to monologue for four Rounds and all heroes to be Confused by their enemies' dizzying intellects.

[Capt.JohnPaul]

I'm not so sure they should all be rare--after all, an Alcoholic Venom (When applied to that weapon, that weapon will deal the Confused-effect (the enemy has a 1/2 chance of hitting a random ally instead of the target with every DAMAGE or SPECIAL DAMAGE rolled for it or with Free Hits for three rounds) for the duration of one battle) needn't be AS rare as Noxious Venom (When used on a weapon, the weapon deals the Badly Poisoned effect for the duration of the battle and the Confused effect for the next three rounds, for the duration of one battle.)

In my mind, basic effect venoms (like Draught of Living Death or Alcoholic Venom) should be about as rare as gems or scrolls (or, even better, about as rare as Deadly Venom in terms of drop frequency), while combination or powerful effect venoms (such as Noxious Venom, which applies both Deadly Poisoned AND Confused, or Plague Venom, which deals 15 damage per Round AND -1 SP) should be about as rare as they currently are.

I would agree with keeping effect venoms as drops-only, though, no need to add them to the Marketplace except on special occasions--maybe poor Portia could stock two or three different varieties for the month each time Elphaba comes in, as a way of leveling the playing field a bit?

The "leveling of the playing field" wouldn't work unless they were cheap enough to buy. If they were anywhere near cheap, people would stock up a huge amount. (Not too hard, since heroes are walking around with 2000 to even 4000 plus gold.)

[CMP]

Iocane - Odorless. Tasteless. When applied to a weapon, that weapon will instantly Knock Out the target on a successful hit. Applying Iocane to a weapon causes all enemies to monologue for four Rounds and all heroes to be Confused by their enemies' dizzying intellects.

Mask of the Dread Pirate - (suitable for rogues, immunity to Iocane, headwear)

[Brickdoctor]

Mask of the Dread Pirate - (suitable for rogues, immunity to Iocane, headwear)

Goblet of Wine in Front of Me (suitable for Rogues; accessory) - Ensures that Iocane will take effect even if the hit is not successful.

[Flipz]

The "leveling of the playing field" wouldn't work unless they were cheap enough to buy. If they were anywhere near cheap, people would stock up a huge amount. (Not too hard, since heroes are walking around with 2000 to even 4000 plus gold.)

I was just applying a little bit of logic to the temp sales. Too much logic and the whole world of Heroica falls apart.

Also remember that players should not be punished for the basic benefits of the class. Just because someone in the party is a Knight doesn't mean ALL the enemies they face should be insanely high-leveled or ignore SP just to counteract them; likewise, just because there are wealthy Rogues in Heroica doesn't mean all the prices should be inflated to match THEIR income. I think you and Zeph would both agree that your lives would be a LOT tougher if, for example, weapon upgrade prices were inflated so that Rogues couldn't afford more than one or two in between each Quest.

That said, I'll address your concerns directly. I'd say that basic effect venoms should have a base cost of 100-200 Gold apiece. That's 2-4 times as much as the Scrolls that inflict the corresponding Effects, which both prevents them from replacing Scrolls AND prevents them from being too overused. Also, as different Effects are more powerful/dangerous than others, I think that different effect venoms should have different prices scaled according to the effect they inflict sort of how Mead, Smelling Salts, and Nostrum have different prices scaled according to the effect they inflict.

Again, though, these are just suggestions. I applaud you for taking the time to think through them and point out concerns, though; I'll admit, until I ran the numbers exactly I hadn't priced them quite so high in my mind.

[Endgame]

I was going to request to Sandy that perhaps an "Import" kiosk could be implemented, with some of the unique quest items being sold (3 at a time, cycles every so often)... with ludicrously jacked up prcies, of course (Perhaps a 50% increase? Plague Venom goes from being 120 to 180, as an example.)

Edited April 14, 2013 by Endgame

[CMP]

I was going to request to Sandy that perhaps an "Import" kiosk could be implemented, with some of the unique quest items being sold (3 at a time, cycles every so often)... with ludicrously jacked up prcies, of course (Perhaps a 50% increase? Plague Venom goes from being 120 to 180, an an example.)

I personally think that'd be pretty interesting, or at least a travelling merchant like Elphaba, but for less than magical items.

[Endgame]

I believe it was once mentioned that it'd be cool if the Toxiproggs set up a venom stall... given what'll happen at the end of 48, perhaps they would be good contenders for the job?

[joeshmoe554]

I'd say that basic effect venoms should have a base cost of 100-200 Gold apiece. That's 2-4 times as much as the Scrolls that inflict the corresponding Effects, which both prevents them from replacing Scrolls AND prevents them from being too overused.

Given those are consumables and can only be used once each, wouldn't it make more sense to make them about the same price as a scroll, which can be used at any time. The consumable has a 100% effectiveness, and can be used by anyone, but you have to buy one for every time you want to use it.

[Flipz]

Given those are consumables and can only be used once each, wouldn't it make more sense to make them about the same price as a scroll, which can be used at any time. The consumable has a 100% effectiveness, and can be used by anyone, but you have to buy one for every time you want to use it.

The consumable venom can't be used directly on enemies, though (well, outside of clever stuff like what swils did with the food at the start of the final battle of Q35), so it's still either a 3/6 or 4/6 chance to affect the enemy (depending on class), just like a Scroll...or just like a weapon with a permanent Effect attached. The advantage of the consumable is that it can be used by anyone on any weapon, and can be used on any one weapon the character owns, thus allowing for much greater flexibility; for example, Pie's Conspirator deals the Blind-effect on successful hits, but does nothing to Dark or Demon type enemies. If he was using a Blindness-inducing venom, however, he could conceivably wait until the battle starts and THEN choose which weapon to apply it to (i.e. perhaps he'd want a Blind-effect on his Heavy Flail to inflict Fragile AND Blind, or he'd want it on Ratsbane if he's fighting a particularly nasty Vermin that's immune to Fragile.

Besides, Scrolls have their drawbacks; they're Mage- and Cleric-exclusive, their chance to hit is NOT affected by Lucky, they don't target enemies for purposes of preventing Free Hits, they cost Ether even on a failure, and all too often enemies are "immune to scrolls" or some other such nonsense while still being vulnerable to the effect itself. Also remember that Mages already have some pretty serious disadvantages compared to certain other classes; part of their point is their utility, and a moderately high price point on effect venoms prevents non-Mage characters from outclassing Mages with scrolls entirely.

Also, you try hosting someone with the power to inflict a bunch of effects on your enemies all the time and then say that all players should have cheap access to effect-dealing weapons/items. I probably wouldn't be far off if I said that most QMs would absolutely hate my character if it weren't for the fact that he's fun to work with outside of battle.

Edited April 14, 2013 by Flipz

[CMP]

Also, you try hosting someone with the power to inflict a bunch of effects on your enemies all the time and then say that all players should have cheap access to effect-dealing weapons/items. I probably wouldn't be far off if I said that most QMs would absolutely hate my character if it weren't for the fact that he's fun to work with outside of battle.

Being outside of battle didn't keep you from inflicting effects on my enemies....

[Sandy]

Consumables that give weapons effect for one battle are entirely okay by me.

[Endgame]

Q57:

Overall, Flare, I liked it. It had that same sort of whimsical feeling as 42, with an equally quirky cast. Compared to other Heroica fare it was pretty lighthearted, a nice change of pace from all of the recent doom and gloom. Plus, Ziegfried rep! Yay!

Your photography was crisp, and your battles balanced... for the most part, but more on that later. I am curious about what the ending sequence was about, though - was there a right answer?

Sorrow Sidequest:

Sorrow feels a ripping in him. His inner soul, ripped from his body, is being torn away as sees darkness swirling around him... his identity leaves his body, leaving Syntax alone in the shared body formerly belonging to Sorrow.

...

Ages pass by, it is impossible to tell. But all that is seen is dark magic swirling around him... but then again... everything is dark...

Sorrow reawakes in the land of the nether-world. It doesn't seem that bad, to be honest. Sorrow gets up, and notices that somehow his body is with him, but some things are different. Some things are missing. Not knowing what else to do, he starts walking through the swamp that he landed in when a sudden apparition appears.

"Sorrow, nous, we, meet again. Je suis Undead, yes, but changed? Non. I must haunt you, for the evilness you cause le world! Sacreblu! You oppose my peace and perfection, thus, you are evil! This I will never forget! Ungarde!"

Fantome Croise!? What is he doing here? Undead!? An undead Fantome Croise? How?! But all Sorrow knows is... this battle has started!

PREPARE FOR BATTLE!

Enemies:

Fantôme Croisé

*Immune to Insta-kill*

"Return me mon armor! And that golden venom looks excellent as well... leave it up to someone as

stupid

as you to not even use it on his weapon! Ha! Mon perfect world shall be resurrected soon enough..."

Level 10

Type: Undead

SP: 2

Health: 399/399

Special:

Maniacal Laugh

- The target loses 8 health, regardless of row or SP

Drops: Ether Core

Party:

Sorrow

(Endgame)

Level 19 Assassin

Power:

39

Defense:

1

Health:

23/30

Gold:

1093

Equipment:

Steel fan (WP:20,

Ice

-elemental), Sticky Gloves, Armor of the Croise

Inventory:

Phoenix Essence, Ether Core, Mead x4, Smelling Salts x4, Nostrum x4, Health Core, Golden Scorpion Venom (??), Jinxy Juice x4

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Sorrow is about to stab the wounded undead nightmare, but he hears shuffling behind him. He turns to see a familiar body, but her head in her arms!

"Sorrow...... I know who you are... you stood by, while your friends murdered me... me.... me... You did nothing... and that is the worst sin, even worse then your two friends... you shall always be haunted... I have been informed, the Fantome Croise is now... the perfect Fantome! With your death, he will be able to regain a foothold in the land of the living, and continue with his holy conquest... Time to be exterminated! Fear the ghost of the mighty princess!"

"Rise my minions, and attack le wicked pest! I must have him dead! Buahahahaa....."

The revived Fantom's wicked laugh causes shivers to run up and down Sorrow's back, causing both the hastened- and afraid- effects to him. This will be a tougher battle then previously...

PREPARE FOR BATTLE!

Enemies:

Parfait Fantôme Croisé

*Immune to Jinxed, Burned, and Insta-kill*

"Sacreblu! Sorrow, you are so strong, but so evil too..."

Level 18

Type: Undead

SP: 6

Health: 916/916

Special I:

Devastating Hit

- The Croise’s axe is swung hard with revenge, lowering the target's health to 1.

Speicial II:

Lust

- The Fantome disregards SP for the rest of the battle.

Passive Special I:

Heavy Spirit, Heavy Armor

- The Fantome Croise cannot be killed until all other enemies are defeated. Otherwise, his health will remain at 1.

Passive Special II:

Impure Healing

- Every other round the Parfait Fantome Croise will gain health equal to the amount of his allies multiplied by 10.

Drops: Ether Core

Ghost of Princess Kathleen

*Immune to Jinxed and Insta-Kill*

"You are worse than them all!"

Level 8

Type: Undead

Health: 324/324

Specials:

Slap

- The target is stunned after being slapped incredibly hard by the indignant princess' ghost.

Drops: Bone

Cotte de Mailles

*Immune to Insta-kill*

Level 2

Type: Mechanical

Health: 72/72

SP: 3

Special:

Absorb

- Le cotee de mailles absorbs enemy blows for the next round, and bolsters the Fantome’s SP by 3 and health by 30.

Drops: Nothing

Plaque d'acier

Level 2

Type: Mechanical

Health: 114/114

SP: 4

Special:

Sauvegarde

- The plaque d’acier boosts the Fantome’s SP by 2, and health by 55.

Drops: Nothing

Casque

Level 2

Type: Mechanical

Health : 85/85

SP: 2

Special:

Protection

- All mechanical enemies cannot be damaged on the next round.

Passive Special:

Thickskull

- Until destroyed, le casque protects the Undead Fantome Croise from all negative effects.

Drops: Nothing

Party:

Sorrow

(Endgame)

Level 19.5 Assassin

*hastened*

*afraid*

Power:

39

Defense:

1

Health:

15/30

Gold:

1168

Equipment:

Steel fan (WP:20,

Ice

-elemental), Sticky Gloves, Armor of the Croise

Inventory:

Phoenix Essence, Ether Core x2, Mead x3, Smelling Salts x3, Nostrum x3, Health Core, Golden Scorpion Venom (??), Jinxy Juice x3

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Sorrow continues to beat against his two undead opponents. Sorrow swings at the Fantome Croise, but slips and misses. As the Parfait Fantome Croise comes in for the kill, a blinding light appears and a voice is heard:

"SORROW... YOUR END HAS NOT COME. LET THIS EXPERIENCE BE A REMINDER TO YOU, OF WHAT INJUSTICE CAN BE... THE ALMIGHTY QM HAS SPOKEN..."

A strong wind starts to blow, and Sorrow's body starts to disintegrate with the wind. The Fantome is enraged that his opponent was able to slip from his grasp.

"NOOOOOO... I'LL COME

AFTER YOU!!

I'LL...

"

Sorrow can no longer hear the threats, as his soul is reunited, and strength is returned to his bones. But not everything was the same. He felt slightly stronger from the experience, but he looked at his inventory and noticed that some things were gone. It wasn't just a dream. Someone... or something... had pulled Sorrow into his nightmares, into the netherworld. Sorrow realizes that although he might be the first one to be targeted, he probably won't be the last... the world might need saving again...

And a return trip to the netherworld might be necessary.

Party:

Sorrow

(Endgame)

Level 19.5 Assassin

Power:

39

Defense:

1

Health:

30/30

Gold:

2187

Equipment:

Steel fan (WP:20,

Ice

-elemental, causes

burned

-effect (5 damage per round),

effective: 2 battles remaining

), Sticky Gloves, Armor of the Croise

Inventory:

Longsword (WP: 5), Bedroll, Tonic, Venom, Phoenix Essence x3, Archer's Hat (Artifact, headwear, Power +1, suitable for Rangers and their Advanced Classes), Ether Core x3, Mead x6, Smelling Salts x6, Nostrum x5, Health Core, Deadly Venom, Jinxy Juice x4, Dark Cloak (Backwear, SP:1, Max Health +1, Power +1, suitable for rogues and barbarians)

Unsurpirsingly, i got my undead rear handed to me on a platter.

[Flare]

There was a correct answer. But you guys were employing too much force and not enough thinking skills Doesn't really matter though, it most likely would've just have caused another battle.

I will reveal the last items that Sancho was carrying, if y'all are interested.

Thanks

[Endgame]

Well, we could've just killed them both. That'd be a bit too much force.

Yes, please!

[Flipz]

You guys gave up a chance for experience when you had a Hero ONE experience gain away from making Level 15. Bad party!

Should've just killed Sancho for his bow, who cares about who ACTUALLY turned Merlyn into a frog?

Edited April 15, 2013 by Flipz