Heroica RPG General Discussion

[Waterbrick Down]

Yeesh, all the would-be Dragoons are coming out of the woodwork it would seem.

Edited July 22, 2013 by Waterbrick Down

[Pyrovisionary]

Do I get C4 and detonators when I go cannoneer.

Edited July 22, 2013 by Pyrovisionary

[Waterbrick Down]

I've contemplated having Skrall go cannoneer wielding one of the pirate or wild west cannons as his weapon. Out of curiosity, how many characters aside from Cronk are thinking about going Bard?

[Flipz]

It's interesting...in the beginning of the game, there were a fair number of characters who fully embodied their base classes and nothing else...then the Advanced Classes came out, and the vast majority of the Heroes out there really seem to embody their Advanced Class. That doesn't seem to be happening so much for the Expert Classes; Alexis hasn't been roleplaying much thanks to the Fields, Althior still embodies "mage" more than Necromancer, and Cronk and Docken aren't even bothering with Expert Classes. Benji is pretty much the only Hero who's truly adapted to become the embodiment of his Expert Class--and maybe Thormanil, if he really manages to capture the essence of the class.

Furthermore, class switching from Advanced Class and beyond seems to be becoming more and more common--what once was Benji's unique quirk has become the norm. Even I've changed Advanced Class now, and I'm planning to do multiple swaps during my Expert Class phase.

What does everyone think the reason for this is? Is it a lack of finality due to the existence of the higher tiers, or is it just something about the Expert Classes that don't lend themselves to embodiment the way that, say, Druid or Paladin do? And what could be done to improve the "weight" of each class?

[Palathadric]

Don't know. When I achieved Level 15 for Pretzel, I wanted to do one quest still as a Cleric, for the sake of the role-playing the training, and then I was planning on taking Pretzel through all the Advanced Classes. He would start as a Paladin, switch to Sage/Druid, then hit the other, go Shamen, all the while getting darker and darker, until finally he'd hit Witch, and then at some point or other he would realize what he's become and have a switch around and dwell as a Cleric forever more. This class-switching was why I went for the Robe of the Archmagi instead of a Heavy Armour, because I wanted an Artifact I could use playing as any Advanced Class. However, now that I've tested out Paladin, I think I will be sticking with it for a while to come. I think I'm kind of addicted to carrying a shield. None of the Expert Classes fit Pretzel tremendously well, besides, although Minstrel may or may not. Still I doubt he would take that route. Prophet though is a definite, unless I become so addicted to using a shield that I just stay a Paladin forever more.

[Zepher]

I hope we see more cannoneers. I think they're pretty cool and actually am excited to play one as a friendly Npc in a future quest!

[Endgame]

I think the issue of the "embodiment" thing is the fact that Expert Classes are generally far more specific roles then advanced classes - and unless your character perfectly fits a role (Sorrow as Necromancer, Alexis as Harlot (possibly?), Karie as Minstrel, etc. ) It can become a bit difficult.

Edited July 22, 2013 by Endgame

[Dannylonglegs]

What does everyone think the reason for this is? Is it a lack of finality due to the existence of the higher tiers, or is it just something about the Expert Classes that don't lend themselves to embodiment the way that, say, Druid or Paladin do? And what could be done to improve the "weight" of each class?

Druid came up in the conversation? Obligatory Druid praise.

I see what you mean, which is a very well-thought-out point (as usual.) I Wouldn't say it's the Expert classes so much that lack the ability to be well-embodied, but rather the individuals who have acquired their access. Very few heroes have made it to the top, thusfar, and those that have are taking their Classes in their own direction. Whether that direction perfectly embodies the class or not. Also, whether someone embodies the class or not is also quite subjective. Alexis may transition into being more of a harlot as time goes on/ she stops fighting animals. ( ) but she may never really get to embody the class, which is alright. Althior may go the steriotypical 'ruler of the undead' route, or he may level out and use his evil powers for goodishness with a bit of evil angst. To sound like a total idiot, I think everyone's RPing their characters in reference to their class/ prospective class quite well.

Also, what Endgame said.

~Insectoid Aristocrat

[The Legonater]

Personally, the expert classes just don't appeal to me. I like the Assassin's mix of hold earning and the back row, and at the moment I'd prefer to stick that way. Conveniently, Dyric would probably prefer neutrality above allying himself with any particular house.

That said, if we were to go Expert, I think we'd probably choose Cannoneer. I can't see any other class making sense for Dyric.

[herrJJ]

Narf narf... The 'n' is silent

[Professor Flitwick]

I can't imagine Thothwick changing classes. Assassin wouldn't suit him, nor would Raider. I was toying with Sorcerer, but he'd shown no such abilities, and is probably too old to learn any. Witch would obviously out of the question. When - or if - he goes Dragoon, he won't change, ever. Doesn't seem 'right' for anyone to abandon their Dragon, particularly not someone like Thothwick who idolises them.

[Brickdoctor]

Furthermore, class switching from Advanced Class and beyond seems to be becoming more and more common--what once was Benji's unique quirk has become the norm. Even I've changed Advanced Class now, and I'm planning to do multiple swaps during my Expert Class phase.

My theory is that it's because the newer Advanced Class heroes have now seen where the older ones ended up if they stuck to one class until Level 30. I mean, if I were to go back in time to when I was Level 14.5 and do it all over again, I wouldn't apply Mythril to an SP: 5 shield (Even though SP: 15 seemed unthinkable at the time.), I wouldn't upgrade my Briar Bow at all, I wouldn't buy Potions to save myself from Aura, and most of all, I would've gone Assassin for a quest or two to pick up a few thousand Gold before going to Warden until Level 50. As it is, it's too late for that. (Luckily for me, I got the Mythril cheaply enough that I've still saved Gold despite the inefficient and tedious upgrade process for a non-Rogue.)

The players outside of the original twenty or so Advanced Classes now have an idea of where you end up stat-wise for the different paths through Levels 15-30, and they now know how overpowering Rogues can be at high WPs with lots of consumables.

[UsernameMDM]

swils should definitely take the gold dragon. (Assuming the dragons are the same color as the egg -- it might be a wiser choice to pick the plain brown goblet.) He can use it with his armor to blind enemies from above.

Don't touch the brown! I got plans!!!

[Flipz]

Embodiment is different than stereotype, though--Hoke and Thothwick are by no means stereotypical, yet they truly embody their respective Advanced Classes. Likewise, Guts is in no way a stereotypical "pillaging Raider", but at the same time the change to his class marked a suitable and recognizable change to his personality, which meshes well with the embodiment of "Raider-ness".

I guess I'm saying that in some ways Advanced and Expert classes are becoming...routine. They don't seem to mark any real turning point in the characters' lives, they're just "that thing you do after two to four Quests". I mean, not that there's anything wrong about that, but at the same time, it feels...strange, I guess. Like we've lost something.

I feel that way about the roleplaying in Heroica in general as well. Maybe it has something to do with filling in the blank corners at the edges of the map, but it sometimes feels like there are very narrow roads for characters' roleplaying. When I re-read Quest 4, it struck me how freely the characters roleplayed--heck, De'kra had a whole scene with an NPC with Tomas and Cinna, and they rolled with it. Nowadays, Tanma would get yelled at for such a move, and that's a shame, in my view. Most Quests have become more about the story of the Quest, rather than about the story of the Heroes ON the Quest, and Heroica has lost something for it. Sandy's Quests (with the possible exception of Quests 3 and 44) have always managed to sit in that perfect sweet spot between the two where it manages to be about both, which is why he's still the unmitigated king of QMing.

I can't imagine Thothwick changing classes. Assassin wouldn't suit him, nor would Raider. I was toying with Sorcerer, but he'd shown no such abilities, and is probably too old to learn any. Witch would obviously out of the question. When - or if - he goes Dragoon, he won't change, ever. Doesn't seem 'right' for anyone to abandon their Dragon, particularly not someone like Thothwick who idolises them.

Dragoon will likely be Arthur's final class at this point as well, as with Wren gone (and not ascended to godhood) Prophet no longer works for Arthur. Then again--Chi Monk, or even Sage...

Making decisions for Arthur is a lot harder when I don't have him on/included in any sort of arc. (Another reason why he ties in to so many, Scuba--keeps me from being completely lost. )

Edited July 22, 2013 by Flipz

[CorneliusMurdock]

Cronk wil be "bothering" with an expert class just as soon as he gets one more level of Hinckwell rep.

WBD, go cannoneer! Skrall using an actual cannon would be awesome.

[Endgame]

I feel that way about the roleplaying in Heroica in general as well. Maybe it has something to do with filling in the blank corners at the edges of the map, but it sometimes feels like there are very narrow roads for characters' roleplaying. When I re-read Quest 4, it struck me how freely the characters roleplayed--heck, De'kra had a whole scene with an NPC with Tomas and Cinna, and they rolled with it. Nowadays, Tanma would get yelled at for such a move, and that's a shame, in my view. Most Quests have become more about the story of the Quest, rather than about the story of the Heroes ON the Quest, and Heroica has lost something for it.

I wouldn't neccasarily say that. The quest's story provides context for roleplaying - I haven't really seen any examples of QMs pigeonholing roleplay. For 48, 56, and 70 I pretty much went out of my way to provide maximum roleplay oppurtunities.

Edited July 22, 2013 by Endgame

[Rumble Strike]

As heroica progresses I think QMs have evolved from the basic 'dungeon crawlers' scenarios and have got more specific stories to tell, there are opportunities for roleplaying but it's not the be all and end all. That's not necessarily a bad thing. Also enemy levels are high, battles are lasting longer so people just want to get their actions in.

[Brickdoctor]

When I re-read Quest 4, it struck me how freely the characters roleplayed--heck, De'kra had a whole scene with an NPC with Tomas and Cinna, and they rolled with it. Nowadays, Tanma would get yelled at for such a move, and that's a shame, in my view.:

He PMed me about that first and I okay'd it, which is why his QM didn't yell at him.

But if other players want what you're describing, it seems like Quest 77 is coming at just the right time. It's a lot like Quest 4.

[The Legonater]

"The damage doesn't look as bad from out here."

Should've seen that coming.

[Cutcobra]

About the roleplaying with classes, right now Heckz doesn't fit any of the expert or master classes aside from Mime. But as he progresses I'd want him to be an Infiltrator, Beast Warrior or Dragoon.

[Dannylonglegs]

Embodiment is different than stereotype, though--Hoke and Thothwick are by no means stereotypical, yet they truly embody their respective Advanced Classes. Likewise, Guts is in no way a stereotypical "pillaging Raider", but at the same time the change to his class marked a suitable and recognizable change to his personality, which meshes well with the embodiment of "Raider-ness".

I guess I'm saying that in some ways Advanced and Expert classes are becoming...routine. They don't seem to mark any real turning point in the characters' lives, they're just "that thing you do after two to four Quests". I mean, not that there's anything wrong about that, but at the same time, it feels...strange, I guess. Like we've lost something.

I feel that way about the roleplaying in Heroica in general as well. Maybe it has something to do with filling in the blank corners at the edges of the map, but it sometimes feels like there are very narrow roads for characters' roleplaying. When I re-read Quest 4, it struck me how freely the characters roleplayed--heck, De'kra had a whole scene with an NPC with Tomas and Cinna, and they rolled with it. Nowadays, Tanma would get yelled at for such a move, and that's a shame, in my view. Most Quests have become more about the story of the Quest, rather than about the story of the Heroes ON the Quest, and Heroica has lost something for it. Sandy's Quests (with the possible exception of Quests 3 and 44) have always managed to sit in that perfect sweet spot between the two where it manages to be about both, which is why he's still the unmitigated king of QMing.

Dragoon will likely be Arthur's final class at this point as well, as with Wren gone (and not ascended to godhood) Prophet no longer works for Arthur. Then again--Chi Monk, or even Sage...

Making decisions for Arthur is a lot harder when I don't have him on/included in any sort of arc. (Another reason why he ties in to so many, Scuba--keeps me from being completely lost. )

Well, maybe Stereotype wasn't the best word, and maybe I took the argument in a completely different route than your meaning. I still understand you though.

I don't feel like we've lost anything, really. I don't really have a counter argument, I just don't feel like anything's changed overmuch.

~Insectoid Aristocrat

[Brickdoctor]

Should've seen that coming.

We should have a new index: Index of Brickdoctor's Use of Quotes.

[The Legonater]

We should have a new index: Index of Brickdoctor's Use of Quotes.

It's probably not much better than mine. I make an unhealthy amount of references.

[CMP]

*Snip*

I've been dropping hints about Atramor's change to Regulator recently. Pheles Rod and McCafferey fit into it very well. Pheles Rod is the whole reason I'm taking the class in the first place, but you don't have to roleplay it that way.

I'm hoping my next Quest will have plenty of room for NPC dialog and more importantly hero interaction. It's a big part of the narrative, in fact.

On an unrelated note, Quest updates in maybe an hour or so.

Edited July 23, 2013 by CallMePie

[Dannylonglegs]

I've been dropping hints about Atramor's change to Regulator recently. Pheles Rod and McCafferey fit into it very well. Pheles Rod is the whole reason I'm taking the class in the first place, but you don't have to roleplay it that way.

I'm hoping my next Quest will have plenty of room for NPC dialog and more importantly hero interaction. It's a big part of the narrative, in fact.

On an unrelated note, Quest updates in maybe an hour or so.

Nice!

I've got my next two Quests as fleshed out in my head as the one I'm currently running. So many ideas! So many "Trade"s.

~Insectoid Aristocrat