Heroica RPG General Discussion

[Palathadric]

Arthur is stacking effects and elemental weaknesses in his favor. There were no objections to it when it was posted in 48 months ago, so My sticky gloves have already paid me back over triple the price.

Yes, but Sticky Gloves just enhances the classes who already have a stealing ability. Overkill Gloves, enable other classes to become gold gobblers like rogues and even do better than them. It's fine, but if you're gaining 1,000 gold a battle without being a rogue class, I think there's something wrong.

Exactly. In the hands of most Heroes and in ordinary use, Overkill Gloves will earn you a minor amount of extra money. But I'm a Mage--that means I can earn a 2x multiplier on almost every enemy in the game, AND I also have an Artifact that allows me basically a free Fragile on my opponent, and I've bought Meads--thus allowing my an 8x multiplier on attacks. Once I advance to non-Ether classes, I'm automatically losing two of those multipliers (though Mead will stay), which will substantially lower the amount of Overkill I can do.

I'm also being careful to let other Heroes whittle down the opponents' health so that the majority of my attack power goes to Overkill. Basically, it's an Artifact that rewards me for the style of play I use anyway--and that's great.

Right now, they may not be a tremendous benefit to most heroes, but as heroes upgrade and advance soon everyone would be overkilling by massive amounts. That's how I see it.

[Zepher]

Yes, but Sticky Gloves just enhances the classes who already have a stealing ability. Overkill Gloves, enable other classes to become gold gobblers like rogues and even do better than them. It's fine, but if you're gaining 1,000 gold a battle without being a rogue class, I think there's something wrong.

Same argument can be made against healing staffs (actually have a higher chance of healing than some healing classes) and a number of other items (everlasting venom v. witches, is another example).

EDIT: I too actually find the gloves to be far too powerful, but sometimes we just gotta roll with the punches. Too late to change now, they're already in circulation.

Edited June 7, 2013 by Zepher

[Palathadric]

I thought Sandy was actually against the everlasting venom deal, and it surprised me that Endgame went ahead and let the heroes do it, but I could be wrong. We also all know that about Healing Staffs which is why they no longer appear in the game and why there are always jokes/comments floating around about banning them.

[Flipz]

Yes, but Sticky Gloves just enhances the classes who already have a stealing ability. Overkill Gloves, enable other classes to become gold gobblers like rogues and even do better than them. It's fine, but if you're gaining 1,000 gold a battle without being a rogue class, I think there's something wrong.

Right now, they may not be a tremendous benefit to most heroes, but as heroes upgrade and advance soon everyone would be overkilling by massive amounts. That's how I see it.

I disagree. Again, it takes a Mage to be able to Overkill properly. Yes, there are some heavier hitters, but not really to the extent I can do--at least not on a semi-universal basis. Keep in mind, I optimized my build around these gloves, so the effect is somewhat exaggerated. Also keep in mind that they're rare and VERY expensive, which limits their potential in other ways.

I thought Sandy was actually against the everlasting venom deal, and it surprised me that Endgame went ahead and let the heroes do it, but I could be wrong. We also all know that about Healing Staffs which is why they no longer appear in the game and why there are always jokes/comments floating around about banning them.

He changed his mind (as WBD's first Quest shows), and he himself dropped an Everlasting Venom consumable in Quest 66.

Power Creep happens, especially when certain players (me) dedicate a lot of time and energy improving their builds so they can enact powerful strategies. I am a supremely bad example of any kind of balance for any item, simply BECAUSE I seek out ways to play the system to my advantage.

I kind of wish I'd lent my OK gloves to someone else, just to demonstrate how they work on someone who's NOT inherently broken. In fact, I think that's a pretty good idea. Zeph, who do you think should wear them, you or Em? I'm leaning toward Em, but I'm not sure he'd be active enough to put them on, or if he'd remember to give them back.

Edited June 7, 2013 by Flipz

[Palathadric]

Whatever. Go ahead and make your money. I don't really care.

[Endgame]

About the permanent envenom thing: Once again, made months before Sandy even said anything about perma-venom. In fact, it even costed more then Overkilll Gloves to do.

I will be taking steps in later battles to make sure Arthur can't absolutely obliterate everything, though.

[Masked Builder]

If anything, I'd let you borrow it. Harlot Alexis in a catsuit: why bother fighting, the men are fighting over you, not against you!

I did what now?

Yeah in our PM. You said it was to modern.

[Scorpiox]

Power Creep happens, especially when certain players (me) dedicate a lot of time and energy improving their builds so they can enact powerful strategies. I am a supremely bad example of any kind of balance for any item, simply BECAUSE I seek out ways to play the system to my advantage.

That's the difference between me and seemingly a lot of other players. I select my inventory out of the best available equipment and fight by attacking enemies. I do believe in strategising, I do it a lot, but I would never take it to the point that I'm deliberately trying to use effects to exploit and break the system. In my opinion, it's just overthinking and overcomplicating simple things to the point that battles become boring and only really act as a opportunity to farm gold. I accept that some people prefer to choose targets based on who will earn them the most dosh as opposed to the tatically correct foe, but I myself would never do it. Fighting isn't all about being statistically better off afterwards. I've always believed the whole point is aiming to finish the battle with as few people down as possible and continue with the quest; that's important to remember.

[Capt.JohnPaul]

How about this idea? Once a character gets too much gold, there is so much of it the value drops and there is inflation. Or maybe King Guts takes power, and he taxes 15% of all the gold you earn.

I'm obviously joking.

[Scorpiox]

I can have 4 artifacts equipped. I don't know why I couldn't I'm above level 30... (level 1-10, 1 artifact, 10-20 two, 20-30 three, 30-40 four...)

Oh, I apologise, It appears that I've been reading Benji's age as opposed to his level all this time.

[Sandy]

If you know anything about MMORPGs (online roleplaying video games), then you know that inflation and balanced pricing is a big concern in them. We are seeing the same phenomenon taking place here, but there's not much I can do about it, I fear.

As for items that give unfair advantages, you do realize that it's difficult to predict their effects before they are put into the game. When the Overkill Gloves were presented to me, I didn't see them as much of a gamebreaker, but then again, I hadn't taken into account the insane amount of multipliers some people get.

I guess it's up to us QMs to make it even harder to exploit certain items and strategies in battles. But then again, if someone has gone through the trouble of inventing an intricate strategy that benefits them, in my opinion they earn the benefits.

[Flare]

but then again, I hadn't taken into account the insane amount of multipliers some people get.

*whistles innocently*

[Scorpiox]

OoC: You got rid of two of my smelling salts when I only used one

Benji drinks a nostrum and attacks Bird B.

How a

How are you managing to use a consumable and attack in the same turn. I realise that you are hastened this turn, but last turn when you took the Smelling Salts you also attacked...

[joeshmoe554]

Smelling salts cause haste once they are taken giving the player a second turn that round.

[UsernameMDM]

I guess it's up to us QMs to make it even harder to exploit certain items and strategies in battles. But then again, if someone has gone through the trouble of inventing an intricate strategy that benefits them, in my opinion they earn the benefits.

Plus that might turn out as punishment for players who aren't min/maxers.

[Scorpiox]

Smelling salts cause haste once they are taken giving the player a second turn that round.

Not in the round they are taken, they don't. Benji can't take his salts and then attack afterwards, his turn for that round would be spent.

Is that not true, Sandy? I don't think it's a good way of doing things, at least.

[Brickdoctor]

Smelling salts cause haste once they are taken giving the player a second turn that round.

Yeah, Smelling Salts have always given players a second turn even in the Round they're used.

[Capt.JohnPaul]

Yep. once you take them, you don't have to wait a round for it to go into effect.

[Flare]

Not in the round they are taken, they don't. Benji can't take his salts and then attack afterwards, his turn for that round would be spent.

Is that not true, Sandy? I don't think it's a good way of doing things, at least.

As soon as you drink it you're hastened! The magic of smelling salts

[Dannylonglegs]

Plus that might turn out as punishment for players who aren't min/maxers.

Or at least those who don't Min-max their money-making potential. I'm still a poor humble Cleric! I can hardly afford the items I want!

~Insectoid Aristocrat

[Sandy]

Not in the round they are taken, they don't. Benji can't take his salts and then attack afterwards, his turn for that round would be spent.

Is that not true, Sandy? I don't think it's a good way of doing things, at least.

All effects (save for Sentinel and Guardian Angel) are put into effect immediately, simple as that. This means that a hero who consumes Smelling Salts gets another turn on that very same round.

[Brickdoctor]

Interestingly, when the game first started, I think Sentinel was the only effect that most of us assumed was put into effect immediately. (Because all the other Shields are.) I know I did at least the first few Orders for Quest 1 with the Knights first thinking that they might roll Sentinel, and not to soak up Free Hits like we do now.

[Scorpiox]

Yeah, Smelling Salts have always given players a second turn even in the Round they're used.

Yep. once you take them, you don't have to wait a round for it to go into effect.

Hmm... I never knew that. I still don't think that's the best way, but only in my opinion.

[xxlrocka]

I thought drugs in Heroica was odd at first, but then I remembered Smelling Salts and the weird drug dealer with the two face head in that one quest so long ago.

[Brickdoctor]

I thought drugs in Heroica was odd at first, but then I remembered Smelling Salts and the weird drug dealer with the two face head in that one quest so long ago.

Mead is a drug though not in the way most people think of it, I guess, containing alcohol. Nostrum is patent medicine and might very well contain opiates or cocaine.