Should Lego bring old factions back?

[Artifex]

As title.

Everybody seems to love the Castle factions of old (Crusaders, Black Falcons, Forestmen and -- why not? -- Royal Knights, Black Knights, etc), so, in your opinion, why should or shouldn't TLG bring those factions back and incorporate them into Kingdoms?

I know there's a historical componente here, that some of these old factions mixed and became another and so on and so forth... Maybe the Lion Knights -- and the Dragons too -- are those old factions after a couple of hundreds of years...

But how would you feel and what would you say if Lego was to bring those factions back, with "updated" prints and modern designs?

I, for one, would love to see my childhood friends back. I like the Lion Knights and the Dragon Knights a lot, but compared to the Crusaders, the first Lion Knights, the Black Falcons and the Forestmen, they'll always come second... I know that's nostalgia talking, but I just can't help it.

I always loved the color scheme of those old factions, and the sets were great too. Not that I don't like today's Lion and Dragon sets, mind you. But to think of a new Black Falcons' Fortress with a renewd force of Black Falcons... AND battlepacks of these factions for army building... *deep sigh*

What about you?

Edited February 8, 2011 by Artifex

[Hive]

I would love it. I could see why they wouldn't want to make sets for 3-4 different knight factions, as things would get repetitive. But a few exclusive battlepacks for eg. the Crusaders and Black Falcons would be way cool. And I think they could definately benefit from re-introducing the Forestmen as a third faction in 2012, to shake things up a bit with more variety and something new. With better trees and more use of brown these days, there's even a good chance that they could produce even better Forestmen sets than back in the good old days...

[CMP]

Should they? Yes.

Will they? No.

[Sirens-of-Titan]

I don't see them releasing the exact same factions, frankly their designs have changed and so have the designers so even though they may pay homage to old favorite groups, it seems unlikely that they will actually re-release them.

What I would like to happen is for the them to create more diverse factions; somewhere between standard knight-vs-knight and over-the-top-undead-fantasy.

Ideally a human horde faction with old rusted armor and weapons, including bandits mercs and thieves, topped off by a great coat of arms to reflect that personality. Fox, wolf, bear, on the shield, it's all good to me.

PS if the forestmen are to make a come back; I want to see many many woodland sets and I hope against hope for some woodland critters like rabbits, deer and bears!

[josykay]

A more modern remake of Crusaders, Black Falcons, Blackknights and Forestmen would be very nice. The crests still fit to the modern kingdom crests. I think, it would not be very difficult to revamp the torsos by adding details like a belt, folds, chainmail and of course a printed back. Maybe like the revamped Wolfpack torso. Adding the new shiny weapons and armor is not a problem as well.

We do not need new castles or stuff like that (even I would like to by a revamped Black Monarch´s Castle) Some battlepacks would be great. But sadly they won´t do that...

[manuelexar]

Maybe like the revamped Wolfpack torso.

What are you talking about?? Oo Where can I find It?

BTW I would love to see new forestmen btw i think they would fit in the current theme!

[Artanis I]

Will TLG do it? No.

Should TLG do it? No.

Can TLG do it? Yes.

Do I want TLG to do it? No: they already did it with forestmen when they brought out dark forest - and ruined my favourite faction.

Best to let bygones be bygones - mere nostalgia is better than an unsuccessful revamp. Take a look at movie, TV show & band reboots. Most of the time it would've been better to leave it be. They do it because they'll make money, but most consumers are left with a bittersweet taste eventually - full of regret.

[manuelexar]

Will TLG do it? No.

Should TLG do it? No.

Can TLG do it? Yes.

Do I want TLG to do it? No: they already did it with forestmen when they brought out dark forest - and ruined my favourite faction.

Best to let bygones be bygones - mere nostalgia is better than an unsuccessful revamp. Take a look at movie, TV show & band reboots. Most of the time it would've been better to leave it be. They do it because they'll make money, but most consumers are left with a bittersweet taste eventually - full of regret.

Sadly dark forest was not really widespread (here in Italy (at least where I live) there was not a trace in the shops and in the catalogue) As a child I would have loved to play with the dark forest fortress and I like the new torsoes they introduced in that set! (and I really love the deer shield)!

[ziljin]

They won't do it. But I wish they would. I asked them in an email once and they said that its too expensive to keep all these molds (well Bandai does it with Gundam models, they reissue older kits all the time).

They definitely could use more than 2 factions though. the Fantasy was nice, it had humans, skeletons, trolls and dwarves.

Kingdoms would be perfect for several factions. Since its called Kingdoms and not 2 Kingdoms. Really if they wanted to, they could release sets for Kingdoms indefinitely since there could always be more Kingdoms.

I would definitely like more civilian sets though. Or peasant militia. There were lots of unarmored soldiers in the middle ages. And peasant soldiers too.

[Brickdoctor]

It's not impossible you know.

Personally I'd love to see a new theme based around that retro-Forestman. The downside would be that these minifigs would have the new extra detailing - pupiled eyes, metallic metal weapons, new more detailed pieces and prints; they wouldn't fit in with the old minifigs. Compare the Black Falcons with the Dragon Knights: the former's torso is a simple coat of arms; the latter's has 'cloth' printing, shiny colors, and many minute details on it. I tried putting a Crusader and a Lion Knight side by side, and they a common animal and color (lion and red) but look out of place next to each other.

[josykay]

What are you talking about?? Oo Where can I find It?

BTW I would love to see new forestmen btw i think they would fit in the current theme!

I am talking about the torso of an old keychain:

My link

I know, they replaced only the bull crest, but i think, the brown, scaled armor fits very well to the Wolfpackcrest. It is a excellent torso for a Wolfpack commander (still fits to the original torsos) or for a complete group.

Edited February 9, 2011 by josykay

[manuelexar]

I am talking about the torso of an old keychain:

My link

I know, they replaced only the bull crest, but i think, the brown, scaled armor fits very well to the Wolfpackcrest. It is a excellent torso for a Wolfpack commander (still fits to the original torsos) or for a complete group.

Holy Bricks! That's awesome! I never bought a keychain, can I detach the torso like a normal minifig or is all one piece?

[blueandwhite]

I don't see the need to rehash the old factions. I love my original lion and falcon knights but I really don't see why you would remake them. We have newer factions that work just fine. I'd rather see new factions introduced instead. I'm happy with the Kingdoms line because it gave us two fantastic new factions. If LEGO had the choice between rehashing things and introducing something new, I'd opt for the new.

As for the forestmen, I have no qualms about a new line of forestmen but I don't see the need to be slavishly faithful to the originals (we don't need new deer shields or anything like that). Bandits and outlaws are as iconic as wizards and dragons so it only makes sense to reintroduce such a group within the castle theme. The Robin Hood figure from the first wave of collectible figures seems just about perfect. A sub-theme with figures based on Robin Hood folklore would be wonderful. There's a theme where specific characters would be appropriate (Robin, Will Scarlet, Alan-a-Dale, Friar Tuck, Little John, etc.).

[josykay]

I never bought a keychain, can I detach the torso like a normal minifig or is all one piece?

I never bought a keychain. But this torso is sometimes sold at ebay. So it seems, that the torso is somehow removeable.

[Hive]

I tried putting a Crusader and a Lion Knight side by side, and they a common animal and color (lion and red) but look out of place next to each other.

...which is why it would be cool if they did an updated design.

[The Penguin]

I don't suppose TLC should be bringing old factions back. They were good (and some even excellent) for their days, but now the world and interests of the kids are different. I'm pretty sure that kids can hardly play knights, only jousting, travelling and saving maids from the robbers. (Not to mention that Crusaders may be found a politically incorrect faction by some liberals.)

Modern kids can hardly imagine knights without dragons, dwarfs, elves, magic and stuff like that. Thanks to the films and games. That in its turn is an explanation to the great popularity of Fantasy era Castle and certain lack of one for Kingdoms. If we compare them, of course.

It is much easier to throw away fantasy elements from the set and stay "medievil" for old fans than to expect TLC to make 180 turn and start producing sets like in the old days.

So my point is that there is neither point, nor the logic in returning back. To the new lands, I say!

Good day, ladies and gentlemen! )

Edited February 9, 2011 by The Penguin

[Haltiamieli]

I'd say it's quite possible that we will, if the collectable minifigure series continue on beyond five series, sooner or later get a knight figure that at least nods towards some old Castle faction - we've already got sort of reimagined Classic space and Blacktron II guys, after all. And that would be a happy day for quite a bunch of AFOLs. And if they do it well, kids will be happy as well.

I think I already voiced this dream somewhere else on the forums, but I hope you don't mind little repeating. I'll get to the old factions in time. Anyway, I would very much like to see Lego doing a full-fledged tournament sub-theme/wave some day. Considering how iconic part tournaments are of the Age of Chivalry legends, the main inspiration of Lego Castle, it is surprising how little Lego has exploited it. In my dreams this sub-theme would include a big set with two opposing knights, tournament rounds and spectator stands with a few high-borns and peasants, and some middle-size sets with training grounds etc. In addition to that, the theme would have some packages a little like the NinjaGo ones of this year, each one containing a mounted tournament knight with a distinct heraldry. This would be a perfect opportunity to please the AFOLs with one or two reimagined versions of classic factions, obviously besides some brand new designs too (has Lego ever done a Griffin heraldry, for example?). I think Black Falcons especially would be perfect for this, as we haven't seen birds in Lego heraldry for a long time, their colour scheme is great (and clearly distinct from new Lions and Dragon Knights) and they are still loved by nostalgic AFOLs.

Edited February 9, 2011 by Haltiamieli

[Capn Frank]

But how would you feel and what would you say if Lego was to bring those factions back, with "updated" prints and modern designs?

I, for one, would love to see my childhood friends back. I like the Lion Knights and the Dragon Knights a lot, but compared to the Crusaders, the first Lion Knights, the Black Falcons and the Forestmen, they'll always come second... I know that's nostalgia talking, but I just can't help it.

Am I missing something?

I think the two latest castle factions remakes of classic factions with updated prints and modern designs.

The emblems distinguishing the factions look surprisingly similar to our old friends the Crusaders and Black Knights or Dragon Knights.

The Crusader Shield:

The Kingdom good guys:

The Black Knights Shield:

The Dragon Knights Shield:

The Kingdom bad guys:

[Hive]

With the success of the collectable minifigures, I really don't see why LEGO shouldn't also be able to profit from doing battlepacks with knights not necessarily features in sets (be it new versions of old factions or entirely new ones).

[manuelexar]

Am I missing something?

I think the two latest castle factions remakes of classic factions with updated prints and modern designs.

The emblems distinguishing the factions look surprisingly similar to our old friends the Crusaders and Black Knights or Dragon Knights.

The Crusader Shield:

The Kingdom good guys:

The Black Knights Shield:

The Dragon Knights Shield:

The Kingdom bad guys:

That was my idea!!

[ziljin]

If you look closely at the recent castle minifigs. Crown, Lion, and Dragon. They all have similar torsos. The chainmail torso. And the 4 squares and the logo in the center torso. Just some color swapping and a new logo.

[Cutty]

I'd love to see some updated castle-factions make a (somewhat) return in the future and if only as a singular updated knight in some hypothetical jousting-set. If he had a two person entourage of warriors and a herald perhaps that'd be even better yet not necessary.

Other folks have already stated we might see a future collectable minifigure paying respect to the olden days of classic castle-themes. This sounds like the most feasible and realistic way of implementing such a project. Think of all the, now grown and parents by themselves, people who might recognise, say, the black falcons' emblem and undertake to get that fig meanwhile getting some others that might draw them back deeper into Lego all over again ;) Perfect marketing through nostalgia!

(To quote an ad from my favourite graphic novel "Watchmen": "Nostalgia - Oh, how the ghost of you clings!" Sounds fitting at this point ;D )

Be well all!

Cutty

[maydayartist]

Holy Bricks! That's awesome! I never bought a keychain, can I detach the torso like a normal minifig or is all one piece?

That is all one piece

For me, the new factions fit very well. This is the first time that the gambeson look like a real one on a historic background. The chains on the dragon knights seems a little bit too much but who cares

[Artanis I]

Anyway, I would very much like to see Lego doing a full-fledged tournament sub-theme/wave some day. Considering how iconic part tournaments are of the Age of Chivalry legends, the main inspiration of Lego Castle, it is surprising how little Lego has exploited it. In my dreams this sub-theme would include a big set with two opposing knights, tournament rounds and spectator stands with a few high-borns and peasants, and some middle-size sets with training grounds etc. In addition to that, the theme would have some packages a little like the NinjaGo ones of this year, each one containing a mounted tournament knight with a distinct heraldry. This would be a perfect opportunity to please the AFOLs with one or two reimagined versions of classic factions, obviously besides some brand new designs too (has Lego ever done a Griffin heraldry, for example?). I think Black Falcons especially would be perfect for this, as we haven't seen birds in Lego heraldry for a long time, their colour scheme is great (and clearly distinct from new Lions and Dragon Knights) and they are still loved by nostalgic AFOLs.

sounds like a Harry Potter quidditch set

[Tyrant]

I'm all for seeing the old factions again. I would argue that they are already doing that, so I am not sure why anyone is saying that they won't. We've seen some variation of lions what, 3 times now? 2 or 3 Dragon groups. 2 sets of Forestmen. I don't see any reason to believe there won't be another version of the Black Falcons at some point.

I would like to see the Black Falcons get another shot. I would like the crest to remain unchanged, but I am not sure how likely that is. Beyond that, I welcome the color scheme again with new details like the belts and chain mail. New printed armor pieces and long shields. Maybe even horse barding finally. I would like to see a new version of the Forestmen as well. With them, there could be a greater departure of appearance because they are a ragtag group to begin with so uniformity is actually counter productive. They might not have barding or printed armor as that seems out of place. A reimagined Wolfpack would be nice as well. Maybe even the double axe guys so they can actually be their own faction and not just rolled into the crusaders/lions. I could live with it if we were talking a couple of token sets for each and some way to get the figures enmasse, but ideally we would see something more.

I also support the idea of either a very large (think S&H exclusive large, bigger than the MMV) tournament set that brings back some of the old factions with barding, bigger shields, and printed euro armor, or perhaps a sub set within the Kingdoms theme.