pueumatic 8043 excavator

[Alasdair Ryan]

i found this on youtube (am going to start challenging DLuders on posting info on here )

he used pueumatics to power the boom and bucket

i did not make it so feel free to comment

[Pinky]

We need to find the creator of this !

Then pit him against jurgen or steal their DNA and make a super human technics builder the greatest ever seen muhahahahahahaha

[rien]

Lol why?It doesent improve things .

Lifting the boom takes hours.

Jurgen desingt a great model no pneumatic needs there .

I think its too slow and the nice look the model have from it self is gone.

But keep the ideas roling!

@Alasdair Ryan quote:(am going to start challenging DLuders on posting info on here

I dont think you will win

Edited January 6, 2011 by rien

[allanp]

Ah fooey!

Pneumatics are usually way more powerful and much faster than this, problem is hear is that the compressor is very much underpowered and inefficient. You might as well fart down the tube!

Take a look at this one designed and built by Jennifer Clark, it blows the socks off the 8043 in every way possible and is one of the best excavators i've seen:

it's compressor isn't even that big.

I just hope the 8110 Unimog has a decent compressor that works half as well as the one in Jennifers excavator.

[Alasdair Ryan]

Lol why?It doesent improve things .

Lifting the boom takes hours.

Jurgen desingt a great model no pneumatic needs there .

I think its too slow and the nice look the model have from it self is gone.

But keep the ideas roling!

@Alasdair Ryan quote:(am going to start challenging DLuders on posting info on here

I dont think you will win

Its a joke don't panic.

I posted it for you all to see

Some day i will better Jennifer Clark's one.

I have made a good pump and a switch my self, i will finish my skip truck first before i think about another big moc.

Edited May 16, 2013 by Alasdair Ryan

[imajor]

Ah fooey!

Pneumatics are usually way more powerful and much faster than this, problem is hear is that the compressor is very much underpowered and inefficient. You might as well fart down the tube!

Take a look at this one designed and built by Jennifer Clark, it blows the socks off the 8043 in every way possible and is one of the best excavators i've seen:

it's compressor isn't even that big.

I just hope the 8110 Unimog has a decent compressor that works half as well as the one in Jennifers excavator.

It is indeed impressive, but I wouldn't say is is better than 8043 in every way. The movement of the 8043 is much more precise, and the 8043 is trully remote controlled. I think power is not everything.

[allanp]

It is indeed impressive, but I wouldn't say is is better than 8043 in every way. The movement of the 8043 is much more precise, and the 8043 is trully remote controlled. I think power is not everything.

An excavator does not need to be THAT precise, pneumatics are more than precise enought, it's not performing surgery, and yes it is fully remote controlled, just not radio or IR controlled, which is fine by me.

[davidmull]

This looks really crap to be honest comes know where near even a standard 8043'pneumatics are not suited and way to short,

[Milan]

8043 with pneumatics in the video really sucks.

LAs are best for its size and functions.

Pneumatics have other use, but not on this set.

[davidmull]

8043 with pneumatics in the video really sucks.

LAs are best for its size and functions.

Pneumatics have other use, but not on this set.

Ye there handy for opening and closing doors ha,hope the new unimog has big changes to live up to 8043.

Look also at that digger above it's movements are very bad no at all realistic and moves to fast,8043 just looks and moves more realistic.

Edited January 6, 2011 by davidmull

[Blakbird]

It is indeed impressive, but I wouldn't say is is better than 8043 in every way. The movement of the 8043 is much more precise, and the 8043 is trully remote controlled. I think power is not everything.

I may be the only person in the world who has BOTH Jennifer Clark's excavator and 8043 sitting side by side on my shelf. Having used both, I can say that 8043 is NOT much more precise. In fact, the movements of JC's excavator are more fluid, smooth, and operable than 8043 in almost every way. It is true, however, that JC's excavator has an umbilical while 8043 is full R/C. Both are very good looking although JC's is more realistic in that it is not so "open". JC's also has MUCH more realistic range of motion for doing actual excavation. 8043's bucket barely goes below grade at all.

Both are excellent excavators and 8043 is without a doubt the best one that has been released as an official Technic set. It is also one of the most mechanically complex sets ever which I really appreciate no matter how well it works. Most of the complexity comes from the fact that it uses motors and linear actuators for all the movements. JC's has comparatively few gears since you don't need them for pneumatics (although the drive system is awesome). Personally, I believe that "Goose" (the designer of 8043) was well aware of JC's design and used much of it for inspiration, especially the track drive system in the superstructure with dual concentric axles running through the turntable.

[rien]

I volunteer to dig agianst jenifer clarcks desing! with my 8043 H.P

That thing looks verry nice but spastic look how the boom go's down freefall

But no bad word about the design only the way the pneumatic react!

Edited January 6, 2011 by rien

[Jurgen Krooshoop]

Ok, I can't compare Jennifer's excavator, but I did create a pneumatic excavator (DEC-24) based on the same principles as JC's creation. And as some of you know, I created the Ultimate 8043 with a smaller bucket and full simultanious control of all the functions. If I would make a top 3 of these 2 models and the standard 8043, it would look like this:

1. Ultimate 8043

2. Pneumatic excvavator DEC-24

3. Standard 8043

I put the normal 8043 in last place because not all the functions can be operated simultaniously. And IMO is crucial to be able to slew and operate the boom at the same time. Even though It's gearbox is a genius piece of technical engineering, it doesn't make it work nicely. And the bucket is way too big and doesn't move in and out far enough.

The Ultimate 8043 wins from the pneumatic excavator for 2 reasons:

(1) complete remote controll (without pneumatic tubes connecting the remote and the model) and

(2) precision. IMO LA's do give better controll over movement of the boom, dipper and bucket than pneumatics. The problem with pneumatics is that they are powered from one powerfull compressor. Lifting the entire boom eg takes a lot of power, so it's slow. Lowering the boom goes way too fast, cause the boom "falls" (this can be seen in my video and in the video's of JC's excavator as well). Operating the dipper with the same powerfull compressor makes movements of the dipper too fast, making controll difficult. OK, pneumatics might have some more power, but in this case I definately prefer the controllability of LA's. It's just much more fun to play with, and makes the excavator do better what you want it to do. And it's the Ultimate 8043 with which I spent the most time diggin (cause it's so much fun), much more than my pneumatic one.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e4La2-epwoQ&feature=player_embedded#!

[rien]

Yes that is well explained thnx i wanted to say that kind of stuff to but my english is soooo bad i get complains about it so i dont do to much writing

i have build youre model aswel jurgen with the control wel lets say im adictid to it i dit it for a living so with the remote control is sooooooooooooooo sweeeet thnx for sharing!

[Jurgen Krooshoop]

Yes that is well explained thnx i wanted to say that kind of stuff to but my english is soooo bad i get complains about it so i dont do to much writing

i have build youre model aswel jurgen with the control wel lets say im adictid to it i dit it for a living so with the remote control is sooooooooooooooo sweeeet thnx for sharing!

Thanx !! And just as you, I would also dare to dig with my Ultimate 8043 against JC's excavator. I do agree with Blakbird though in the fact that JC's version is the prettiest. And it's design is still awesome, especially considering is was created in 2003 !!

Edited January 6, 2011 by Jurgen Krooshoop

[allanp]

What's all this about booms falling too fast with pneumatics, that's an easy fix, just limit the amout of travel the valve has in the downwards postion, or you can always just not move it down all the way. Simple really isn't it.

As for the speed issue, there is no issue, excavators do move surprisingly fast in real life, the 8043 looks like an excavator working in super slow motion even with the new LAs. The smooth, not so slow motion and the priciples behind pneumatics are much more life like. And the fact that it has an unbilicle cord does not mean that it is not remote controlled in any way. Even with IR you still need line of sight witch does not always work in some light conditions and if the reciever is blocked by anything including the model itself. With an umbilicle you never lose control plus you have propertional control. You can move the pneumatics as fast or as slow as you like just by altering how far you move the valve, just like in real life.

I'm sorry but when it comes down to any kind of machinery like an excavator or backhoe, pneumatics are what technic is all about. They are as authentic as you can get without using oil and you can have loads, or very little complexity, allowing you to have more complexity else where giving you even more functionality. Pneumatics make good technic models and amazing toys, LAs just make good toys and boring technic models.

[rien]

slow motion? bring it on!

[allanp]

slow motion? bring it on!

So what you are saying is, to get LAs working almost as fast as the real thing you need to run the motors on 11.1v?

[rien]

So what you are saying is, to get LAs working almost as fast as the real thing you need to run the motors on 11.1v?

No where you read that?

Im saying bring me that thing and my [8043 ULTIMATE H.P.nl] will eat it

Edited January 6, 2011 by rien

[Jurgen Krooshoop]

What's all this about booms falling too fast with pneumatics, that's an easy fix, just limit the amout of travel the valve has in the downwards postion, or you can always just not move it down all the way. Simple really isn't it.

As for the speed issue, there is no issue, excavators do move surprisingly fast in real life, the 8043 looks like an excavator working in super slow motion even with the new LAs. The smooth, not so slow motion and the priciples behind pneumatics are much more life like. And the fact that it has an unbilicle cord does not mean that it is not remote controlled in any way. Even with IR you still need line of sight witch does not always work in some light conditions and if the reciever is blocked by anything including the model itself. With an umbilicle you never lose control plus you have propertional control. You can move the pneumatics as fast or as slow as you like just by altering how far you move the valve, just like in real life.

I'm sorry but when it comes down to any kind of machinery like an excavator or backhoe, pneumatics are what technic is all about. They are as authentic as you can get without using oil and you can have loads, or very little complexity, allowing you to have more complexity else where giving you even more functionality. Pneumatics make good technic models and amazing toys, LAs just make good toys and boring technic models.

I'm sorry but I have to disagree. It's not just about falling booms. This is just one example. Since you're controlling 2 pneumatic valves with one hand, you need to move it very precisely, which is quite difficult with Lego-valves. You have to pay too much attention on how far you have to push the valve, while you'd want to pay more attention to the model itself. This makes operating pneumatics less fun for me. IMO Lego pneumatic valves aren't suitable for making the pneumatic cylinder move exactly as fast as you want.

What I'm saying is that the reation of LA's is much more predictable than pneumatic cylinders. This makes it much easier to make the excavator do what you want it to do. Even when the model moves slower, it still takes less time to do the task you want. I know this from personal expierience, cause I've had a pneumatic and LA-excavator side by side.

And the pneumatic hoses connecting the remote to the excavator are a bigger issue than the "line of sight" needed for an IR-receiver. With the hoses, the model is never really "free" which annoyed me when plaaying with the pneumatic excavator.

Don't get me wrong, I'm a big fan of pneumatics, but please don't discard LA's as boring, just because you don't like them.

Edited January 6, 2011 by Jurgen Krooshoop

[Blakbird]

Thanx !! And just as you, I would also dare to dig with my Ultimate 8043 against JC's excavator. I do agree with Blakbird though in the fact that JC's version is the prettiest. And it's design is still awesome, especially considering is was created in 2003 !!

OK, if you and rien can make it to my house tomorrow then we'll have a digging contest/celebration. Sounds like so much fun that there are really no losers.

In all seriousness though, the best thing about JC's design is the accuracy.

• It not only looks like a real excavator, it looks like a specific real excavator (JCB JS220) right down to the decals and livery of the operator.
• It's range of digging motion is just like the real excavator.
• Pneumatics operate basically like the hydraulics of the real thing. This makes the mechanics of the excavator as realistic as possible for a model (short of using hydraulic fluid). As someone who analyzes hydraulic actuators for a living, this is really important to me. No one uses electro-mechanical screw actuators for real earth moving equipment. Works good for toys though!
• The controller works like real 2-stick, 2-axis CAT controls. This can be done to the 8043 as well by modifying the controller and adding simultaneous control to all functions.

So it all depends on what you are looking for. If you want a toy excavator that is fun to play with and "moves right", the 8043 (and especially Jurgen's modified 8043) are perfect. If you want a toy excavator that operates like the real thing as much as possible, then JC's is vastly superior. Both are a blast to use (and watch).

[fmmjqtft]

Pneumatics are not realistic. Mechanical actuators are actually much more similar to hydraulics than pneumatics are. I mean the way they can be controlled, not the physical structure.

Hydraulics and LAs are just way easier control than pneumatics.

Edited January 6, 2011 by fmmjqtft

[Blakbird]

Mechanical actuators are actually much more similar to hydraulics than pneumatics are.

Sorry, can't agree here. I deal with all three of these (hydraulic actuators, pneumatic actuators, electro-mechanical actuators) on a daily basis. Hydraulics and pneumatics are structurally similar, have similar design requirements and critical cases, and operate in a similar manner within a system. EMs are totally different in almost every way except that they are also used to linearly position loads. There are almost no technical similarities between hydraulics and EMs.

From a toy perspective though, I can see your point that you feel that the LAs make the excavator movement and control look more like the real thing, but the way they work is much less like the real thing

[Jurgen Krooshoop]

OK, if you and rien can make it to my house tomorrow then we'll have a digging contest/celebration. Sounds like so much fun that there are really no losers.

In all seriousness though, the best thing about JC's design is the accuracy.

• It not only looks like a real excavator, it looks like a specific real excavator (JCB JS220) right down to the decals and livery of the operator.
• It's range of digging motion is just like the real excavator.
• Pneumatics operate basically like the hydraulics of the real thing. This makes the mechanics of the excavator as realistic as possible for a model (short of using hydraulic fluid). As someone who analyzes hydraulic actuators for a living, this is really important to me. No one uses electro-mechanical screw actuators for real earth moving equipment. Works good for toys though!
• The controller works like real 2-stick, 2-axis CAT controls. This can be done to the 8043 as well by modifying the controller and adding simultaneous control to all functions.

So it all depends on what you are looking for. If you want a toy excavator that is fun to play with and "moves right", the 8043 (and especially Jurgen's modified 8043) are perfect. If you want a toy excavator that operates like the real thing as much as possible, then JC's is vastly superior. Both are a blast to use (and watch).

I'love to come to your house and do a digging match !! 8-)

And wouldn't it be so cool to have Lego-hydraulics (although I think it won't happen) ? Then we could really build a super-excavator.

And you're right about your comparison between the Ultimate 8043 and JC's excavator. My focus was mainly on making the most efficient toy-digging-machine. Since I've make a pneumatic excavator already (which is technically equivalent to JC's version), it was a lot of fun to see the differences between the 2.

Edited January 6, 2011 by Jurgen Krooshoop

[rien]

Blackbird you are right absolute the model of jenifer is amazing but

You say:Works good for toys though!

They are toys .

If i look at the you tube post made here about the model of jennifer the boom fall down and that is not in the real thing it.

Go's fast but not freefall like the model.

And both models compearing with the real i would say that the speed of a lowering boom is not realistic on both models the pneu go's to fast and the L.A's to slow even mine with 11,1 volts but i come far if i compeare it with my experimence with the real stuff

compaire yourelf

Sorry, can't agree here. I deal with all three of these (hydraulic actuators, pneumatic actuators, electro-mechanical actuators) on a daily basis. Hydraulics and pneumatics are structurally similar, have similar design requirements and critical cases, and operate in a similar manner within a system. EMs are totally different in almost every way except that they are also used to linearly position loads. There are almost no technical similarities between hydraulics and EMs.

From a toy perspective though, I can see your point that you feel that the LAs make the excavator movement and control look more like the real thing, but the way they work is much less like the real thing

i didnt see this post befor i post mine last tru about the working of th cilinders then pneu wins ofcourse!!

I'love to come to your house and do a digging match !! 8-)

And wouldn't it be so cool to have Lego-hydraulics (although I think it won't happen) ? Then we could really build a super-excavator.

m2 m2 m2 m2 m2!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

and that would be nice

but blackbird you'd said that you have also hydaulic tel me tel me im curius