Which train should I buy?

[Arcanine]

Hi everybody.

I am new to LEGO Train and now I have 3 options:

1. the old 7898 Cargo Train Deluxe with old remote, motor and battery box

2. the new 7938 Passenger Train with new PF remote, motor and battery box

3. Get the Emerald Night + the PF motor sets separately

( because I couldn't see the collection edition that has everything..Anyone know if that collection edition is not sold now?)

In my case, I could get both in roughly the same price and I am not sure which one to pick from.

Will the PF better than the old RC Trains? Any experienced train players here can comment on this?

Many thanks

[AndyC]

I'd go for the new 7938. The Emerald Night is gorgeous, but there is little point powering it if you don't have any tracks. So then you've got the choice between the PF and the old RC and the newer PF stuff is unquestionably better, in my opinion.

[lightningtiger]

You said two but listed three ?

Aw, well.....anyway I have an Emerald Night as a static train for display purposes, but I did have the 7898 (scrapping it for MOC'ing), but I have the new 7938 cargo train with the what I believe is the more powerful PF motor on layby at Myer's for Christmas.

The new cargo train is more realistic and I feel more playability in it than the other set, except for the crane wagon in the 7898.

I'm a conformist! !

[Jay Sathe]

I disagree. I have both the 7898 and the 7938 Passenger train, and I think you should get the 7898. When compared to the passenger train, it has so much more playability than the passenger train, and even, in my opinion, than the new cargo train. While 7939 comes with one tank car and two flatcars, 7898 came with a boxcar, a hopper car with opening sides, a flatcar, and an awesome crane car. The vehicles are a similar story. 7898 came with a forklift, a small truck, and an awesome red sports car, while 7939 only has a larger truck and 2 copies of the 3177 Small Car set. On to the power systems. I think RC trains are actually pretty good. They are powerful enough for a pretty long consist, and they are fast too. PF has these same upsides, and is better for MOCing, but the batteries seem to run out faster, so my jury's out on that one. For a starter train set, I'd go with 7898. It comes with more track and offers more playability that the new passenger train.

[BrickStorm]

It depends on what your outlook on lego trains is.

If you're looking for a starter set, you can rule out the Emerald Night - Like AndyC said, it a brilliant design but definitely way too expensive as a starter. That gives you the RC cargo or PF passenger.

If you're looking for a single set with lots of playability, go the cargo train. If you are looking to get a set with an eye to expand on it later, get the passenger train - the modular setup of Power Functions will save you on headaches later (and it's also easier to re-build into your own designs).

PF is definitely better than the old RC system, but not enough that you'll really notice if the freight train is going to be your only set. most people will recommend the newer PF cargo train based off it's newer (albeit more expensive) locomotion system and the design of the locomotive itself, but if those kinds of things don't really concern you, you'll still have a lot of fun with the 7898 Cargo train.

[Arcanine]

Thanks everyone above for commenting.

Yes maybe I should give you guys more information.

I am going to expand my train set so I probably would buy extra tracks and maybe 1 more train set. My ultimate goal is to get the Emerald because it is just COOL! (of course power it too.). Also, I probably will get some more pieces from here and there to modify my own train(s).

In terms of playability, yes I agree with you all that the old cargo train has more playability. I want to get the new cargo train but it is quite expensive....and that's why I pick passenger train which is cheaper as 1 of my possible choices.

On the other hand, the new PF is nice as how you all mentioned it. And I believe the new set + new PF motor set will give us more flexibility in extending and supporting future trains/parts that LEGO is going to release right?

Hence, It is pretty hard for me to choose :( painful ~~~

Would it be possible to swap the new PF into the old cargo train deluxe?

hmnn...so I refined my choices:

1. the old 7898 Cargo Train Deluxe with old remote, motor and battery box

2. the new 7938 Passenger Train with new PF remote, motor and battery box

3. Get the Emerald Night + the PF motor sets separately

4. old 7898 Cargo Train Deluxe + PF modded ( buy separately ) <-- is this possible?

5. Get the Emerald Night + RC Train motor set separately <-- is this possible?

Thanks!

Edited July 21, 2010 by Arcanine

[BrickStorm]

The main problem with the old 2006 RC train sets is that the engines use this part in their construction, which in addition to being the locomotive baseplate, acts as a battery holder and a remote-signal reciever unit, with a power cable connecting the motor (built into a bogie assembly).

As you can see, it's big, ugly, and has a very limited ability to be built into other models (mainly just modern engines and rail cars), so probably the only way you can add it to the Emerald Night is to build it into the passenger car.

The newer power functions system splits these components up so they can be scattered amongst the construction (the Emerald night has by default it's battery in the tender, the motor in the drivers' cab and the IR receiver built into the centre of the boiler). Adding power functions to an older set isn't impossible, but it'll take more work than you probably expect, as well as vice-versa.

As far as TLG is concerned, the original RC system was an experiment in new train control technology that wasn't as successful as hoped, hence why it only lasted 1 season. TLG's new attempt with power functions is the "Mark II" revamp of the remote control trains, which, while still in early days, looks to be somewhat more successful. I think it would be safe to say that this system will be hanging around to power the future generations of lego trains.

Oh, and some food for thought, if you were to buy the 7938 PF passenger train, and later on, the (unpowered) Emerald Night set, you can take the power functions parts out of the passenger locomotive and (very easily) build them into the Emerald Night - you may have to remove the wheels of the tender to stick the motor on, but that's relatively simple, and similar setups with 9v motors on this forum have shown the concept works.

Edited July 21, 2010 by BrickStorm

[Arcanine]

The main problem with the old 2006 RC train sets is that the engines use this part in their construction, which in addition to being the locomotive baseplate, acts as a battery holder and a remote-signal reciever unit, with a power cable connecting the motor (built into a bogie assembly).

As you can see, it's big, ugly, and has a very limited ability to be built into other models (mainly just modern engines and rail cars), so probably the only way you can add it to the Emerald Night is to build it into the passenger car.

The newer power functions system splits these components up so they can be scattered amongst the construction (the Emerald night has by default it's battery in the tender, the motor in the drivers' cab and the IR receiver built into the centre of the boiler). Adding power functions to an older set isn't impossible, but it'll take more work than you probably expect, as well as vice-versa.

As far as TLG is concerned, the original RC system was an experiment in new train control technology that wasn't as successful as hoped, hence why it only lasted 1 season. TLG's new attempt with power functions is the "Mark II" revamp of the remote control trains, which, while still in early days, looks to be somewhat more successful. I think it would be safe to say that this system will be hanging around to power the future generations of lego trains.

Oh, and some food for thought, if you were to buy the 7938 PF passenger train, and later on, the (unpowered) Emerald Night set, you can take the power functions parts out of the passenger locomotive and (very easily) build them into the Emerald Night - you may have to remove the wheels of the tender to stick the motor on, but that's relatively simple, and similar setups with 9v motors on this forum have shown the concept works.

Thanks Brickstorm for detailed reply. Yes I can see it is HUGE~

So it seems it is better to just get the new passenger train set I guess?

1 more question:

Both the old RC and the new PF use Infra-red for the remote control.

Are they compatible with each other?

Can I control the new PF train with old RC remote and vice versa?

Thankssssssssssss

[BrickStorm]

AFAIK, the IR signals used by the RC and PF systems are different, so no, they won't be compatible.

Source: This thread talks about the Green freight loco from that set.

If you're aiming to be running multiple trains in future (including the Emerald Night), I'd say sticking to one control system is a good idea in the long run. AFAIK, the new remote for the power functions trains are capable of controlling multiple trains individually with the one device, though I haven't personally tried this.

[AndyC]

the new PF use Infra-red for the remote control.

Are they compatible with each other?

Can I control the new PF train with old RC remote and vice versa?

Nope, the old RC remote and the new PF one are completely incompatible.

[andythenorth]

I recently bought both the RC cargo train deluxe and the new PF cargo train. Both are great.

The typical eBay / Bricklink price for the RC train is *high*. If money is a factor, I'd say get the PF train and don't worry about the alternatives.

The difference between the control systems isn't much in practice. I have enough space (more space than money!) for more trains in future, so I'm planning to buy more of both RC and PF. That means I can have up to 11 trains on different channels some time in the future (8 PF and 3 RC)

Some key differences

- The horn on the RC train handset is fun.

- The RC baseplate is much less flexible for MOCs, but it's easier to swap batteries (the screws on the PF battery box are frustrating).

- The RC motor I have seems to run smoother and quieter than the PF motor. It's supposed to be weaker, but in practice it doesn't seem to make much difference. Wheelslip kicks in before either motor stalls out.

- both engines are attractive, robust and have good play value

- the PF set has slightly better wagons / accessories, and includes some flex track.

cheers,

Andy

Edited July 21, 2010 by andythenorth

[Arcanine]

Nope, the old RC remote and the new PF one are completely incompatible.

hm I see. I guess I will stick with the new PF system then. Thanks very much for everyone's contribution to this thread!

And does anyone of you know if it cheaper to get the individual parts to bring a train instead of buying a whole set?

And how long does the motor and battery last usually ( normal usage )?

Thanks!

[Brickimad]

I've got the new passenger train. Ok, the system works fairly well, but the main problem is endurance, the centre of gravity is way too high . (using smaller, \lightweight batteries and a higher CofG, resulting in derailment and wheel slip, when pulling more than a few coaches.

The Rc system was quite good, the batteries were well low, so the ICE train could go at full chat round corners (with an extra carriage) and just stay on the tracks.

Pity the new PF and RC systems are not compatable, but got quite a few older 9v motors, so I can remove the PF motor, but even leave the batteries in and run off mains. no power issues here, so can got all day...

One problem with the 9v, is quite expensive, now and the new track won't work. I've got loads of 12v/9v track and some new RC track.

[Arcanine]

I've got the new passenger train. Ok, the system works fairly well, but the main problem is endurance, the centre of gravity is way too high . (using smaller, \lightweight batteries and a higher CofG, resulting in derailment and wheel slip, when pulling more than a few coaches.

The Rc system was quite good, the batteries were well low, so the ICE train could go at full chat round corners (with an extra carriage) and just stay on the tracks.

Pity the new PF and RC systems are not compatable, but got quite a few older 9v motors, so I can remove the PF motor, but even leave the batteries in and run off mains. no power issues here, so can got all day...

One problem with the 9v, is quite expensive, now and the new track won't work. I've got loads of 12v/9v track and some new RC track.

Oh really?? It will fall off the track!? Can you post some photos of the train set?

I haven't seen much review on it~

[AndyC]

Oh really?? It will fall off the track!? Can you post some photos of the train set?

I haven't seen much review on it~

I haven't managed to derail the PF Passenger Train, even running it at top speed. The PF Cargo Train will derail if you go above a speed setting of around 5, but that's still pretty fast.

[roamingstop]

Does anyone of you know if it cheaper to get the individual parts to bring a train instead of buying a whole set?

You can find the sub-models of the train sets on Ebay and bricklink... Whilst individually the prices are much lower, buying a complete set typically costs about 1.25x the full price. However this adds flexability if you only want parts of the set...e.g. the cool crane of set 7898, the Emerald Night (without carriage) and multiple tanker elements...

Or if you have the cash upfront, buy the whole set and sell off the unwanted sub-models.

[Arcanine]

You can find the sub-models of the train sets on Ebay and bricklink... Whilst individually the prices are much lower, buying a complete set typically costs about 1.25x the full price. However this adds flexability if you only want parts of the set...e.g. the cool crane of set 7898, the Emerald Night (without carriage) and multiple tanker elements...

Or if you have the cash upfront, buy the whole set and sell off the unwanted sub-models.

Thanks for the info!

I noticed there are 2 motors for PF. The XL and the M.

What are the major difference? Is it only in the power?

And how many karts can each motor handle? How long I can build the train for?

Thanks

[andythenorth]

I noticed there are 2 motors for PF. The XL and the M. And how many karts can each motor handle? How long I can build the train for?

The PF Cargo Train actually uses the new PF train motor bogie (it's available on the Lego store in some territories if you want to see it).

The XL motor has more torque than the M motor. Both are most commonly used in Technic. They can be used for trains, but need gears etc, and can be harder to fit into MOCS.

The PF Cargo Train engine will haul about ten wagons for me. Depends on

- track: curves slow the train down due to wheel friction. The engine can also lose traction on points (switches).

- wagon weight.

- type of wagon. Wagons without bogies have more friction in the curves.

cheers,

Andy

Edited July 22, 2010 by andythenorth