Mindstorms NXT 1.0 > 2.0

[blackburried]

I used the educational 2.0 software with a 1.0 NXT, and all seems fine except for the light sensor... it no longer seems to register properly, even after calibration.

Any idea how to get this to work?

I'd hate to go back to 1.0 software... FORTRAN on punch cards in the 70's was more user friendly ;)

[Tobbe Arnesson]

I think there is a difference between the NXT 1.0 Light sensor and the 2.0 version. There are some downloads at the LEGO website with blocks for the classic RCX-sensors, perhaps there is also one for the 1.0 sensor?

In the program, go to tools > firmware and then check for updates. On that page I found the downloads for older sensors but did not think much about it at the time.

[blackburried]

I think there is a difference between the NXT 1.0 Light sensor and the 2.0 version. There are some downloads at the LEGO website with blocks for the classic RCX-sensors, perhaps there is also one for the 1.0 sensor?

In the program, go to tools > firmware and then check for updates. On that page I found the downloads for older sensors but did not think much about it at the time.

Good ideas, but no-go.

First, "check for updates" does like every web link in 2.0: brings up a "Page Not Found" error at the Lego site.

So, I went to http://mindstorms.lego.com/en-us/support/files/default.aspx#Patches and grabbed Legacy_Blocks_EN-US, which is the file:

http://cache.lego.com/upload/contentTemplating/Mindstorms2SupportFilesDownloads/otherfiles/download14C944130FD52B93D53C058A20A3F5C4.zip

And followed the readme to import the legacy devices.

When I opened the program that worked under 1.0 and not 2.0, there were no new additions to any palette. When I re-compiled the program, it still didn't work.

Further debugging showed that it may not be the light sensor value in error, it looks like either basic assignment or comparison operators quit functioning. This code was copied from "Line Follower Pro", which is the same as "Smooth Line Follower" that can be found elsewhere on the web. It self-calibrates by swinging 120 degrees and getting all the light sensor values in that range and setting a min and a max, as in the following pseudocode:

min=4E5
max=0
<Rotate motors B and C in reverse directions>
Do {
 light=<read light sensor>
 if light < min {
    min = light
 } 
 if light > max {
    max = light
 }
until <motor B has moved 120 degrees>

The motor swings appropriately, but min and max come out as their initial values. That indicates that the comparison operators (">" and "<") quit working, or assignment ("=") quit working.

If I compile/run the saved source "code" from 1.0, it works fine, as long a I don't try to edit it. If I at all try to edit that "code" (not even modify it, just touch an icon), and recompile it, the problems occur.

I've seen the interface often screw-up "code" on it's own, but that's not the case. I've been through the "code" thoroughly to assure it's as it was. I've also re-downloaded the "Line Follower Pro" and "Smooth Follower" from the web, and they have the same problem (I do have to change the "color sensor" on the "Smooth Follower" to a "light sensor").

When I first upgraded to 2.0, it showed many of the program block's icons with "!" with some warning about compatibility issues and "click here for more", which clicking brings up the lego "page not found". This included all the mathematical comparison functions, so, not seeing the difference between the old and the new, I replaced with the new (and that goes for all icons with a "!" in them). Still no joy.

I upgraded to the 1.29 firmware while still using 1.0 (so the NXT would be compatible with the 2.0 rev running at the school, until I found the Mac patch that allowed the educational version to install properly), and that firmware worked correctly w/ 1.0... so I don't think it's a firmware issue.

I'm not sure what my options are... and my son's assignment is coming due quickly.

[DLuders]

@ Blackburried: Did you check the various HiTechnic programming blocks ?

Their Frequently Asked Question (FAQ) #1 and answer is:

"Frequently Asked Questions

Q. Where can I get instructions on how to install the NXT-G programming blocks for the HiTechnic Sensors?

A. Instructions for installing HiTechnic programming blocks and other functions can be found in the support documents."

[Toastie]

As an owner of Mindstorms NXT 1.0 and also owner of Mindstorms RCX, I started wondering. Back in the days that Lego introduced Mindstorms, they came with version 1.0.

Now that Mindstorms NXT 2.0 has been released, does anyone know if Lego is releasing, or thinking about releasing, an upgrade kit from 1.0 to 2.0 like they did with the RCX? I mean, the main item, the control unit, hasn't changed...

Hi astra,

it depends what you are asking for. Yes, V2.0 of the NXT set features the new color sensor. And new firmware for the NXT PBrick. The other stuff (lets call that passive LEGO pieces) are no way worth to invest that amount of money for the NXT upgrade. Further, I doubt that the HiTechnic sensor is really that low quality, as stated before. I have one (with the NXT 1.0) and it works very well with up-to-date firmware.

Now what programming environment are you using? When TLC upgraded the RCX 1.0 to 1.5 they have improved the firmware but at the same time cut cost on the hardware and downgraded the PBrick to a battery-only version (actually the PCB has all the wholes for the rectifier, capacitors, etc. but they are left empty). The "upgrade" to 2.0 just meant that firmware was improved again, but that was it. And of course some new LEGO bricks were included.

NXT1.0 is hardware-wise identical to NXT2.0. If you prefer alternative firmwares, e.g., RobotC or the like, you'll get latest improvements through firmware updates at relatively low to no cost. The "new" LEGO bricks are available through BL. The color sensor ... well that has been said.

BTW, has anyone programmed the NXT with some tough color sensing and actually experienced HT color sensor glitches? I would really appreciate any input here.

Best regards,

Thorsten

[blackburried]

...

The motor swings appropriately, but min and max come out as their initial values. That indicates that the comparison operators (">" and "<") quit working, or assignment ("=") quit working.

...

It was the assignment statements. Somehow 2.0 wasn't able to understand 1.0's assignments, even though the graphic icon looks exactly the same. I replaced all the assignments in the block (with exactly the same assignments), and the code works again.

Just to bolster the off-topic part of this thread, I too would rather have a text interface and a standard language syntax, especially over a GUI that may look pretty, but keeps screwing-up the code (i.e. I've spent 30 hours trying to figure out what's wrong in the above upgrade issue) and makes it difficult to program. The first thought of any CS grad is "I can make a better language" (the second thought is "I can make a program that does all my repetitive work automatically"), and the first thought of his boss should be to quickly gag those impulses. What does it teach my kid if I have to spend 30 hours making the GUI work so he can program graphically?

Edited January 12, 2011 by blackburried

[Toastie]

What does it teach my kid if I have to spend 30 hours making the GUI work so he can program graphically?

Hi Blackburried,

it teaches you to use NXC or RobotC. The former is free the latter has a 30 day trail then you have to pay - as far as I am concerned - a reasonable amount of money. So you have ample of time to compare the packages. I have both and will never delete these programming environments from my computer. It may very well be that you know all that, but oithers may not.

The NXT PBrick is essentially a micro controller and these are programmed in text oriented environments - as you may all know again. I am teaching from time to time classes in this regard and I can tell you, once the kids jumped on it, they love it. And many of them are damned good.

Best regards,

Thorsten

[jojoguy10]

Here's a site that sells a 1.0 > 2.0 "service pack". http://inanimatereason.com/shop/

It's $80 though :-/

Check it out!

jojoguy10

[qlaxx22]

can you email me the list?

[DLuders]

@ qlaxx22: Welcome to Eurobricks! The "list" that you want (showing the differences between the Lego Mindstorms NXT 1.0 and 2.0 sets) are shown on this Inanimate Reason webpage, and below:

[AndyC]

@ qlaxx22: Welcome to Eurobricks! The "list" that you want (showing the differences between the Lego Mindstorms NXT 1.0 and 2.0 sets) are shown on this Inanimate Reason webpage, and below:

I'm not convinced that's entirely accurate; it's missing the colour sensor, for example, that was new to the NXT 2.0 set.