Trains '09?

[Moose]

I remember awhile ago there was a release saying that all previous types of lego traisn will be phased out by 2009, at which time they will be replaced with the new (not so new anymore) power functions system. I was just wondering if there was any further information on this or when we can expect new info.

[Freddie]

Well, there isn't any new info. You'll just have to be patient and wait 'til summer '09, or like the rest of us, wait for the leaks.

Unless it's the buffers you're curious about, then you can read them in Railbricks 4. And SavaTheAggie created a frankenstein of a locomotive, using the PF-expansion set, just to see how it would perform. First impressions are looking good, even though it's using the old battery-box and PF-M, instead of the Li-Poly rechargable and train motor. It's nice to see there are viable alternatives and solutions to propulsion should the train motor prove too weak.

[Klaus-Dieter]

Moose, it's actually like Freddie already said: There is no new information and so we've to wait.

But I personally think that we haven't to wait until until summer. Summer '09 will be very supposably the date of release of the new train sets. So pics and/or at least more information will be there when the American Toy Fair is taking place (February).

Generally I'm not that excited about the new trains. I liked the 9 V system much more than the new theme (mainly because of the high prices for little batteries for the new PF system) and - since there supposably regrettably will be only two JFOL orientated trains and an AFOL train but more in the function of the Hobby Train (so supposably no interior, no minifigs, no nice additional stuff, ...) - I think 2010 will be regarding the train theme much better than 2009 because then in 2010 there would be place for some additional train cars, engines, buildings, ... and I hope TLG will release some of them.

Klaus-Dieter

[Zorro]

I hate the new system. Using batteries is so stupid and a (large) step back in comparison to the last 20 years.

All we can do is keep repeating this, and hope one of the people of TLG will read/hear this and realize they are wrong.

I hope to read some new information soon, even with the new system they would use.

[brickzone]

Not having batteries is certainly more elegant, but the metal rails are so expensive. Even the plastic rails are pricy enough.

[Zorro]

Not having batteries is certainly more elegant, but the metal rails are so expensive. Even the plastic rails are pricy enough.

I think whoever chooses for this Lego theme should know it is going to cost a little, if that is a problem they should buy something that can't drive automaticly.

The small difference in price between the metal and the plastic rails are so small they don't really mater anyway IMHO.

[Captain Zuloo]

I hate the new system. Using batteries is so stupid and a (large) step back in comparison to the last 20 years.

All we can do is keep repeating this, and hope one of the people of TLG will read/hear this and realize they are wrong.

I hope to read some new information soon, even with the new system they would use.

Yeah but TLG care more about profit than AFOL satisfaction - as they should. And their main market is of kids who couldn't care less about power efficient motors. So really, from a business point of view, they are doing what is best.

And whoopie! My first town/trains post!

[Hinckley]

Yeah but TLG care more about profit than AFOL satisfaction - as they should. And their main market is of kids who couldn't care less about power efficient motors. So really, from a business point of view, they are doing what is best.

And whoopie! My first town/trains post!

It's not profit necessarily, but the bottom line. And kids can tell the difference between an efficient product and an inefficient one and anyone can tell the difference between AC and DC and the convenience of plugging something in as opposed to removing old batteries constantly and replacing them. Oddly enough, I believe TLG tries to balance the consumer and business point of view and are pretty successful at it. So, I'm sure 9v didn't die without a lot of thought and negotiation. These people aren't mindless drones with calculators in place of their left hand. They are passionate about creating good product and keeping people happy. That's my perspective, anyway.

Yippee. Your first post here. Welcome.

[paksu]

I liked the 9 V system much more than the new theme (mainly because of the high prices for little batteries for the new PF system)

Actually, LEGO has reportedly decided to release a rechargeable and "powerful" new lithium battery box for the new train system. I'm a fan of 9V as well, but the batteries won't be the most annoying feature of PF Trains.

Edited October 14, 2008 by paksu

[Klaus-Dieter]

It's not profit necessarily, but the bottom line. And kids can tell the difference between an efficient product and an inefficient one and anyone can tell the difference between AC and DC and the convenience of plugging something in as opposed to removing old batteries constantly and replacing them. Oddly enough, I believe TLG tries to balance the consumer and business point of view and are pretty successful at it. So, I'm sure 9v didn't die without a lot of thought and negotiation. These people aren't mindless drones with calculators in place of their left hand. They are passionate about creating good product and keeping people happy. That's my perspective, anyway.

So you mean that it might be possible that we'll see a comeback of the 9 V system in the later future, Hinckley? - I really hope so.

As long as old 9 V train sets and tracks which are in a good condition are sold on Ebay for an affordable price (in early summer this year I bought a 9 V transformer with all the stuff which belongs to it for I think 6 or 8 Euros - isn't that a deal?! ) it's not that bad for me since I'll buy them (and when I don't like the momentary trains TLG produces I don't need to buy them (e. g. I didn't buy the RC trains since the passenger train was simply too JFOL orientated and the cargo train was - with its 160 Euros (plus high costs for batteries) - for my wallet and imo much too expensive )). The only problem would be if all these old 9 V train sets and tracks are no longer available or only for a much too high price or only in a very bad condition. That would be very bad since I plan to make a really big City and Western train layout - but surely not before in 10 years (firstly earning money and saving money is announced when I want to become these plans reality) .

Actually, LEGO has reportedly decided to release a rechargeable and "powerful" new lithium battery box for the new train system. I'm a fan of 9V as well, but the batteries won't be the most annoying feature of PF Trains.

So you mean that the PF system will contain accumulators instead of batteries, paksu? - I really hope so.

Nevertheless even the size is a problem. The 9 V motors simply were put down on the train so you had the chance to have either a detailed engine room (e. g. in a frieght train engine) or a nice room to store cargo or a lovely place to sit or sleep for passengers (e. g. in a passenger train). With the big battery or accumulator box the whole place (apart form the driver's cab) is gone .

But complaining doesn't help. At the moment it seems as if TLG does not want to listen to us what the system concerns .

So hopefully the AFOL orientated train will not be a train like the Hobby Train but something very exceptional like e. g. some sort of rapid-transit railway with a little platform - meaning a modern version of the classic Metroliner - or something similar to an Eastern- And Oriental Express . But since I'm not only a big City fan but even a (SW, classic Castle and) Wild West fan I would prefer a Western train - but I think that this regrettably will be very unlikely in 2009 .

Klaus-Dieter

Edited October 14, 2008 by Klaus-Dieter

[Freddie]

So you mean that it might be possible that we'll see a comeback of the 9 V system in the later future, Hinckley? - I really hope so.

It's funny. Not anywhere in his post did I find any hint of speculation about the return of 9V. With today's steel and oil prices, the chance that an affordable rail-power system will make a comeback, is nought. You'll just have to maintain your motors properly and collect 9V-rails (or use alternatives).

So you mean that the PF system will contain accumulators instead of batteries, paksu? - I really hope so.

Nevertheless even the size is a problem. The 9 V motors simply were put down on the train so you had the chance to have either a detailed engine room (e. g. in a frieght train engine) or a nice room to store cargo or a lovely place to sit or sleep for passengers (e. g. in a passenger train). With the big battery or accumulator box the whole place (apart form the driver's cab) is gone .

The Lithium-Polymer battery was confirmed long ago, and size has been locked to 4 x 8 x 4. That means is shorter, but taller, compared to the 'box on the RC-base. It will be recharged by the same transformer used for the 9V-speed regulator. And it doesn't have to be in the engine, it can trail behind in a tender, it's short enough to sit between two bogies, etc.

I'm thinking it's a good idea to link to the three announcements we've been given; beginning with the first one, continuing with the second post and finishing last one. All known information about the near-future trains are in those three links.

[Gouns]

The weight of the news rails is of 8,5 studs ;)

[AgentRick]

The weight of the news rails is of 8,5 studs ;)

Where did you get that information?

[Klaus-Dieter]

It's funny. Not anywhere in his post did I find any hint of speculation about the return of 9V. With today's steel and oil prices, the chance that an affordable rail-power system will make a comeback, is nought. You'll just have to maintain your motors properly and collect 9V-rails (or use alternatives).

Imo this idea of the return of the great 9 V system doens't lay to far away. Look at the past: The had been many years of trains when they were powered by batteries. After that there were some years when they were powered by the ? V system. An then there was a long period when they were powered by the 9 V system. And two years ago the battery system came back. So why shouldn't the 9 V system (or a system with transformers in general) come out in the later future, too?

And again about the future: It's right that the prices for oil and still will rise immensely and the availability of oil and steel will drop immensely. But batteries are made out of a metallic casing and a toxic liquor inside. And the problem of more and garbage (in general - but toxic garbage, too) is as there like the problem of where to get alternatives for steel and oil, too. So if you regard it from that point of few a transformer based system would be much better. It would indeed need more oil and steel for the transformer and the tracks themselves, but there wouldn't be a problem with where to put the dangerous toxic garbage. The power for the transformer then would have to come from the electric network like today. And this power would have to be produced mainly by alternative energies. A good possibility imo is the very new invention of algae. They could use the carbon dioxide which is produced by emissions of factorys and produce with it energy. I don't know it in detail but when you then take the algae you can get some sort of fluid which you can either use for fuel or for something else which regrettably slipped my mind. And out of the fuel you then can produce again power which goes into the electric network and then in your transformer.

But when you ask me I agree with you: I don't think that - if there isn't a magnificant positive development - we won't see any Lego (train) sets in the later future in the form of how we have them now.

The Lithium-Polymer battery was confirmed long ago, and size has been locked to 4 x 8 x 4. That means is shorter, but taller, compared to the 'box on the RC-base. It will be recharged by the same transformer used for the 9V-speed regulator. And it doesn't have to be in the engine, it can trail behind in a tender, it's short enough to sit between two bogies, etc.

When you put a four stuck tall battery under the train it surely would draggle on the tracks since it's too tall, don't you think?!

And for the tender: This would be a good idea for steam trains. But what then about today's trains?!

I'm thinking it's a good idea to link to the three announcements we've been given; beginning with the first one, continuing with the second post and finishing last one. All known information about the near-future trains are in those three links.

Thank you very much for the links. It's really very useful to have them in one thread.

Klaus-Dieter

[Marcus Aurelius Antoninus]

We Train Fans are patiently waiting for the Power Function Trains to come out. Then convert them to the 9V format. That means hording and maintaining our 9v motors and track if possible. Who knows, the PF trains may be strong enough and batteries last long enough for some good play time before the have to go into the engine shed for Maintainence (battery change).

[Gouns]

Where did you get that information?

By the LUG where i'm registred

Edited October 15, 2008 by Gouns