Great news for 9750 fans -- LogoWriter Robotics discovered!

[evank]

I and many other 9750 Interface A hobbyists have spent several years hunting for LCSI's "LogoWriter Robotics" software. There were plenty of false leads. The standard LogoWriter software and TC Logo are widely available, but nobody could find LogoWriter Robotics (which adds back features that were removed from standard LogoWriter.) A few years ago I was in direct contact with the original 1980s software developers from LCSI -- they didn't have it. People have tried reaching Lego corporate historians and many other promising leads, but everything failed -- until this week, when @amine discovered a year-old Reddit thread here:

https://www.reddit.com/r/AFOL/comments/1f083cf/got_a_bunch_of_dacta_sets_including_an_apple_iigs/?sort=new

Amine is in France, so he deferred to me because the original poster is just a few hours from me (New Jersey / Maryland). We're all incredibly lucky that the previous people who offered to buy it from him didn't pan out, and that the original poster got busy and forgot about it, so he still had it available. I spoke with him by Reddit chat, text message, and finally by phone. We made a deal for me to buy everything but the computer itself (I have enough Apple II gear, and I didn't want to ship a full computer that I didn't even need.) He sent me a couple of 9767 cards, a 9750, etc. -- the usual stuff you find for that generation of Lego robotics -- but most importantly he send me two copies each of the 3.5 and 5.25 disks, plus the LWR manuals. A couple of other 9750 hobbyists helped me fund the acquisition (I'm not naming them; they're free to identify themselves if desired.)

A friend not on this forum lives near me and owns an Applesauce archiving system, so he's going to properly archive the software -- I was not going to just fire up a super-rare disk and see what happens. That's too risky; what if my drive ruined it? However one of the 5.25 disks was someone's backup copy, vs. the original, so I felt safe trying that since the original is here too.

It booted right up! And of course I immediately copied that backup disk, to have a third copy for a fail-safe.

When I have some time, I'm going to put the .dsk files and scans of the manuals into the Vintage Lego Robotics folder on Archive.org: https://archive.org/details/vintagelegorobotics

Here's a picture of LWR running on my Apple //e tonight: https://drive.google.com/file/d/1skiB5yMVc_1F-67dh0D19pJiU0GbepI5/view?usp=drive_link.

Edited November 12 by evank
typo

[Paul B Technic]

That is great news :)

 

[Toastie]

Wow, what a nice find!!! Congratulations, @amine and @evank 

Well, as I am relatively new to the 9750 game, I always need to use the webs to get thing into the clear (for me :D).

First of, LCSI stands for "Logo Computer Systems, Inc." and not "LEGO Computer Systems, Inc.", which I initially thought it would . Is this the company which was founded by Dr. Seymour Papert in 1981? Guess so, the website of LCSI, having a lovely touch of the early years of HTML, is at http://www.microworlds.com/company/profile.html. It says "Copyright 2001 - 2023" but I guess they just forgot to update that last line.

OK, just to get this in chronological order: In the beginning there was the word, then some other stuff happened, and then in 1967 Logo was created as a programming language, with Seymore Papert as one of three co-authors. In 1981 Papert founded LCSI, and now the confusion begins (OK, some people claim, that the confusion began with the big bang, but this is another discussion):

According to this MIT article from 1998, "LogoWriter(TM)" is a software product of LCSI, that initially had nothing to do with LEGO (right?).

• In 1986 LEGO TC Logo was introduced, which was made by LCSI and was entirely based on their LogoWriter software - with added sensor and output support but some other original LogoWriter features removed.
• In 1988 "LogoWriter Robotics(TM)" was introduced (by whom? LEGO or LCSI?), which was a combination of the fully blown "LogoWriter" version + all the added "LEGO TC Logo" primitives (LogoWriter was naturally missing). So this 1988 software should read "LEGO LogoWriter Robotics(TM)", correct? Or was "LogoWriter Robotics(TM)" also used outside of LEGO world?
• In 1993 LEGO Control Lab was introduced, which abandoned the Logo programming world, correct?

Is this so?

Anyway, >very< exciting news!!! 

All the best
Thorsten    

[evank]

That's mostly correct.

LWR was introduced by LCSI, not Lego. I should clarify that on my website. 

I know Control Lab doesn't use Logo, but I'm not sure what it does use. @BatteryPoweredBricks would know best.

[Toastie]

Thank you for the clarification, Evan!

Well, I guess Control Lab software/operation has been “deciphered”  

Here's the EB tread:

It is a 16-page thread, including so many aspects, of Control Lab, a fantastic knowledge base, IMHO!

Best,
Thorsten

 

[evank]

I know there are many software choices for operating 9751 Control Lab -- just as there are for 9750 Control Center -- but I wasn't sure which language is underneath the actual Lego Control Lab application. Is it still Logo?

The irony of finally obtaining LogoWriter Robotics is that I have no intention of using it! I'm sticking with my favorite, good old BASIC.

 

[Toastie]

On 11/12/2025 at 11:11 PM, evank said:

Is it still Logo?

No, it is not. < That was nonsense: The "user interface" is to be programmed in LOGO, see third posts below from @alexGS

The authentic LEGO Control Lab software runs in a Windows-like environment, based on object-oriented programming. No clue what the underlying software base is.

The Interface B is emitting data on its serial port, the moment you turn it on. It does not reply to anything, it just cranks out bytes about its current status. Software simply needs to read these data packets. It uses RS232 in full duplex mode: You can send out your data, they will be executed, but you always need to read the responses at given = fixed rate. Otherwise, Interface B will throw an error.

That is all. No Logo, no nothing. Interface B is as dumb as Interface A is. But the latter is dumber. :D Both interfaces are sensor/actuator >drivers<. The access philosophy is different, though: A is parallel and does only what you ask for (R/W). B is serial and bombs you with status data, whether you asked for or not. You can send data to A and B as you wish.

Best
Thorsten

  

Edited November 21 by Toastie

[evank]

Control Lab also has a DOS version.

I know about the serial approach ... "Do you byte, when I knock?" ... "Just a bit, off the block" ... a friend helped make that connection to 9751 in QBASIC.

Still, I'd like to know about the underlying software. Maybe it's buried in some Control Lab manual. I will look someday.

[Toastie]

On 11/13/2025 at 3:16 PM, evank said:

Still, I'd like to know about the underlying software. Maybe it's buried in some Control Lab manual. I will look someday.

You mean what "TLG" or whatever company they contracted for making the LEGO Control Lab software, correct? As you know, I am a RTFM freak, when it comes to new stuff for me . Hmmm - no, not generally true: Only when it comes to decently composed manuals, of the olden days. Not the total crap you get nowadays, which is 10+ pages of endless lists of "don't do this or that or you'll die" and finally a "scan this to get more info" bulls*it.

As 9751 is a totally independent piece of HW, which cranks out serial data the moment it is turned on (and if no one listens throws an error), I believe they used whatever is appropriate to read/write data streams, C would be my favorite. I don't see any “Logo logic” in Control Lab software, but rather complex, even multithreaded approaches: Orchestrating 8 sensor inputs and 8 power outputs may need "more" than Logo is designed for. Nonsense: @evank was talking about the user interface's language, which is LOGO (see post from @alexGS below) - and I about the totally unrelated software used to build the Control Lab programming language for the user, which is LOGO ... 

But hey, what do I know, it is all just wildly guessing. 

Best
Thorsten 

Edited November 21 by Toastie
Stupidity

[alexGS]

Control Lab does use Logo. I think we’re confusing the machine language for the application with the language presented for the user :) When you add buttons and controls to the page, they have event procedures (rather like HyperCard on the Mac at the time), and those procedures are written in Logo. Typically they run other procedures and functions also written in Logo. And yes, being event-driven, it is capable of running more than one procedure at a time.

My understanding is that TC-LOGO existed before Logowriter (Logowriter being a combination of Logo and word-processing features for documenting projects?). Logowriter was then updated with added commands to give it the same capability as TC-LOGO for controlling the interface.

I know of at least one photo from LEGO depicting Logowriter on the monitor of an Apple IIGS, but I haven’t seen the activity guides etc. rewritten for Logowriter (if, indeed, they ever were). Perhaps that means it is 100% compatible with TC-LOGO?

I’m looking forward to trying it out. Well done, Evan :)

Edited November 21 by alexGS

[evank]

Not sure if you meant me :) but no, I wasn't confused. I am talking about the language under the UI that talks to Interface A, not the programming language used to write the actual Control Lab software.

Thanks for clarifying that is indeed Logo.

[Toastie]

54 minutes ago, evank said:

Not sure if you meant me :) but no, I wasn't confused.

No, not you, he meant me and indeed I was confusing Control Lab's UI with the software itself (as if TC LOGO was written in LOGO ). Edited my post above. 

Sorry for the confusion 

Best
Thorsten 

[evank]

I love that Lego Lines is mostly just BASIC.

[Toastie]

So do I - that is why I made my own software for interfaces A + B. In BASIC of course 

[jarstx]

On 11/12/2025 at 2:09 AM, evank said:

When I have some time, I'm going to put the .dsk files and scans of the manuals into the Vintage Lego Robotics folder on Archive.org: https://archive.org/details/vintagelegorobotics

Hello Evan,

Could you verify if the guides/manuals can also be used with the PC/MS-DOS version?

This version of LWR is available at Archive.org since 2021 but without the literature stuff.

Edited November 28 by jarstx

[evank]

I don't have the PC manuals, but it is probably very similar operation, because Lego Lines etc. are similar.

I'm still planning to scan and upload the Apple LWR manuals soon. When I do, I encourage you to follow their instructions on the PC version and see for yourself how they compare. :)