The Love for Printed Pieces Thread/Sticker Resentment Thread

[Toastie]

6 hours ago, danth said:

Right?

Right!

I'd be fine, when the poor folks make "only" 1 Million or less per capita and year (no clue how many Kristiansens count towards the family, surely not 1898), but that is another story ...  

Although I am not that much into pizza, I very much like the approach regarding the question about stickers vs prints. 

I prefer prints.

Best wishes,
Thorsten

[dukesofbrickdom]

My favorite printed piece would have to be this:

Imagine having to put this on as a sticker. It's safe to say that everyone in the LEGO community is glad this was made into a print.

[MAB]

10 hours ago, danth said:

 

When I ask people "Do you prefer cheese or pepperoni pizza", people just pick one. They don't go into long rabbit holes about hidden costs. "I like cheese better, but what's the cost? Will I receive a poke with a sharp stick as I receive the cheese pizza? Because then I pick pepperoni." Said nobody ever.

 

And do you get exactly the same response rate when you ask them which did you buy?

I prefer salmon to white fish. But I rend to buy white fish more than salmon. Not because I prefer it, but because of the cost. 

[MAB]

4 hours ago, dukesofbrickdom said:

My favorite printed piece would have to be this:

Imagine having to put this on as a sticker. It's safe to say that everyone in the LEGO community is glad this was made into a print.

Fortunately they know that adding stickers to 3d curved parts (the curve in two directions) is not acceptable so tend to print them.

Unlike this windscreen, where aligning so many stickers onto planar surfaces caused lots of complaints.

[danth]

6 hours ago, MAB said:

And do you get exactly the same response rate when you ask them which did you buy?

The question of preference is not "what would you buy, a set with N stickers at X price vs M prints at Y price". That's a question, but it's not a preference question. It's a "how much are you willing to pay?" question.

It's a moot question if you buy Cobi and Mega, then you just get prints anyway.

And it's moot question if you buy Lego, since they raised prices regardless, so...you're gonna have to pay more for Lego either way.

 

Edited January 26, 2023 by danth

[MAB]

1 hour ago, danth said:

The question of preference is not "what would you buy, a set with N stickers at X price vs M prints at Y price". That's a question, but it's not a preference question. It's a "how much are you willing to pay?" question.

It's a moot question if you buy Cobi and Mega, then you just get prints anyway.

And it's moot question if you buy Lego, since they raised prices regardless, so...you're gonna have to pay more for Lego either way.

 

Right, but the question "would you pay for sets where the price has increased as they are now using all prints instead of stickers" is just as valid as "do you prefer prints or stickers". Yet the two might not lead to the same answer.

I prefer prints. I might pay a little extra for all prints. But I wouldn't pay significantly more for all prints. I'd prefer they just did less decoration instead.

If LEGO did a survey asking about prints vs stickers in 18+ sets, it might be seen as a good thing. Until they increase the prices further based on the survey results explaining it by saying AFOLs wanted all printed parts, so we did it.

[danth]

1 hour ago, MAB said:

Right, but the question "would you pay for sets where the price has increased as they are now using all prints instead of stickers" is just as valid as "do you prefer prints or stickers". Yet the two might not lead to the same answer.

I totally agree with that, it's just a different question than the question of simple preference that was being discussed when you replied. A bit of a tangent.

What I take issue with is the idea that one has to factor in totally hypothetical costs when having a preference. Preference means "all other things being equal, which do you like better?"

It seems like an over complication, a bunch of smoke, designed to subtly mount a defense of stickers even though almost nobody prefers them.

Edited January 26, 2023 by danth

[Vindicare]

On 1/25/2023 at 3:13 PM, danth said:

Nope.

It's a simple of question of preference we were talking about. Do people prefer prints or stickers? That's it.

When I ask people "Do you prefer cheese or pepperoni pizza", people just pick one. They don't go into long rabbit holes about hidden costs. "I like cheese better, but what's the cost? Will I receive a poke with a sharp stick as I receive the cheese pizza? Because then I pick pepperoni." Said nobody ever.

The question of stickers vs prints sure make people say weird things.

It's a simple question of preference!

If you say "I like prints but not if they cost more", then guess what: You prefer prints.

It’s not a simple question though. Sure, you could get simple answers,  it that doesn’t do much for the discussion. As MAB said, there’s many factors that could & do go into actually answering that question. 

 

Here’s a comparison from 2015, both $30 sets from Marvel.

10687 a Juniors set- 137 parts, 3 minifgs. 

76031- 248 parts, 4 minifigs with one being a bigfig & 2 stickers. 

I’d wager that’s how a lot of Junior vs System sets would look. Even though I know it’s not the best because Juniors also has a a few bugger than normal parts which also drive cost. 

Edited January 27, 2023 by Vindicare

[Johnny1360]

Simple question, which is preferable prints or stickers. As a simply answer I am sure most would say prints, especially if building the intended set. However it does concern me that someone would say, see everyone prefers prints regardless. When in fact it is only the people that actually respond to the the question that prefer prints. As I said before I do like stickers for some things, I would hate a heavily stickered Speed Champions set to be all prints, it would make the parts unusable for other things. To ask all considerations to be set aside and just pick stickers or prints, is no different than asking people their favorite Ice cream flavor, Vanilla or Chocolate, which doesn't really mean anything. I do know if I did prefer stickers over prints I wouldn't say so in this thread, lol. 

[A_Forest_of_Lego]

But do people actually like the stickers, or do they like the fact that they can leave the stickers off? Because what that would mean is that they actually like plain bricks, not stickers. The question I would ask is: for a decorated piece that you like, do you prefer to have it as a sticker or as a printed brick?

[MAB]

7 minutes ago, A_Forest_of_Lego said:

But do people actually like the stickers, or do they like the fact that they can leave the stickers off? Because what that would mean is that they actually like plain bricks, not stickers. The question I would ask is: for a decorated piece that you like, do you prefer to have it as a sticker or as a printed brick?

It really depends upon what is on the sticker. I have used woodgrain and brickwork stickers on different parts in the past. At one stage, the sticker sheet from Helm's Deep was about 50c and I bought half a dozen for the bricks and banner to use on other parts. Clear ones are best for that.

My daughter also uses various Friends stickers on other parts. Those sheets can be very cheap and are good for revamping old panels or bricks.

[A_Forest_of_Lego]

47 minutes ago, MAB said:

It really depends upon what is on the sticker. I have used woodgrain and brickwork stickers on different parts in the past. At one stage, the sticker sheet from Helm's Deep was about 50c and I bought half a dozen for the bricks and banner to use on other parts. Clear ones are best for that.

My daughter also uses various Friends stickers on other parts. Those sheets can be very cheap and are good for revamping old panels or bricks.

If those parts had been available as both prints and stickers, would you have chosen the stickers for the lower price?

[Ondra]

I collect lego and I have playmobil. Im sure, that I say truth that lego stickers as cheap as I can be. Playmobil stickers are sturdy and there are no bubbles or If used with caution they can be applied again to make perfect position. All my technic sets around year 2008 are now with crumbling stickers, which is really bad experience.

 

Before christmas I bought cobi set, with everything printed. It will be great set, If there wasnt two missing pieces. I never had missing piece in lego...Having no stickers, is something stress relieving and Lego can do better for price they ask.

 

Sets without stickers is always great experience. I get to the point of picking sets without stickers, or sets when sets doesnt look bad without them. I only buy speed champions set, if they looks good without stickers.

 

Lego needs to get rid of stickers at least for sets with high value. It feels cheap...

[MAB]

13 hours ago, A_Forest_of_Lego said:

If those parts had been available as both prints and stickers, would you have chosen the stickers for the lower price?

I don't understand the question. In this case it didn't really have anything to do with price. It was down to reusability. Many sticker designs are fairly limited in where they can be put due to the background colour or design. But in some cases being able to put stickers elsewhere is a bonus. If the parts were printed, I would not have been able to use the brick designs elsewhere.

[danth]

7 hours ago, MAB said:

 If the parts were printed, I would not have been able to use the brick designs elsewhere. 

Yes you would. You just reuse the printed brick.

[icm]

He means not being able to apply the design (the sticker) to a brick of a different shape or size than the sticker was designed for. You can’t do that with printed bricks.

[A_Forest_of_Lego]

Maybe Lego could still sell sticker sheets separately for those who want to use them on various parts and use printed bricks in sets.

[danth]

22 hours ago, icm said:

He means not being able to apply the design (the sticker) to a brick of a different shape or size than the sticker was designed for. You can’t do that with printed bricks.

No, you can't do that with stickers. What are you going to do, cut the sticker to make it smaller to fit on a smaller piece? Or put in on a big piece it wasn't designed and have one color sticker on a different color piece? That would look terrible.

You can only really put a small sticker on a larger piece of the same color. But even then the sticker outline is going to look dumb which is why Lego avoids doing that. And if you have a big piece anyway you could just redesign to fit in the smaller printed piece.

Or if the sticker is the same size as the piece and covers it all, the piece color doesn't matter since it's covered, so why put it on a different piece?

I swear all these sticker arguments are merely hypothetical. Nobody actually does put stickers on pieces they weren't designed for...because they'd immediately see why it doesn't work.

Also we've already covered this:

On 12/31/2022 at 11:22 AM, danth said:

Debunking the sticker utility myth

Myth: "Stickers are better because you can slap them on any brick you want!"

Can you though? Not really. Stickers have colored backing. It's going to look really weird putting, say, a sticker with white backing on a red brick. I guess you can. But how is that any better than just using on the white piece it was designed for?

Also, stickers have a shape generally matched to a brick. You can put it on a larger brick, but not a smaller brick, unless you cut it (you monster!). A sticker not going to look good on a larger brick of a different color, that's for sure. On a larger brick of the same color, it might look okay, despite the outline. But you're going to have to design around having a big enough part to fit your sticker. How is that any better than designing to incorporate a printed part?

The sticker utility argument seems to be philosophical/theoretical only. It really breaks down in reality.

[icm]

Look, have you spent any time on Flickr? Many of the amazing MOCs you see on Flickr use stickers in ways they weren't "designed for" all the time. Seriously, go take a good look at Flickr, go take a good look at many of the MOCs in the sci-fi appreciation thread, pay close attention, and you will see semi-custom/off-design use of stickers all the time.

Edited January 30, 2023 by icm

[MAB]

3 hours ago, danth said:

No, you can't do that with stickers. What are you going to do, cut the sticker to make it smaller to fit on a smaller piece? Or put in on a big piece it wasn't designed and have one color sticker on a different color piece? That would look terrible.

You can only really put a small sticker on a larger piece of the same color.

You can use clear background stickers on parts that are not clear. 

I buy my daughter quite a few Friends sticker sheets which are often white backed and she tends to stick them on large white panels that she uses to build shops with.

Just because you cannot work out how to use stickers on parts they were not intended for doesn't mean others cannot.

 

[icm]

Jerac recommends using the stickers meant for the 6w half cylinders of the 75292 Razor Crest’s engines on the 4w half cylinders of his T-65 X-wing’s engines. They work just fine for that, though you do have to cut them down to fit. That’s cutting a large sticker to use it on a smaller part, on a MOC that many people would agree is one of the best, if not the very best, minifig-scale X-wing ever made.

 Now, would it be nice if there were 4w half cylinders with a very similar print that would be just perfect for a T-65 X-wing? Yes, it would be nice. But in the absence of those, it’s nice to be able to take the stickers from the Razor Crest and cut them down to size and put them on the X-wing.

Edited January 30, 2023 by icm

[Johnny1360]

8 hours ago, danth said:

8 hours ago, danth said:

 

I swear all these sticker arguments are merely hypothetical. Nobody actually does put stickers on pieces they weren't designed for...because they'd immediately see why it doesn't work

Now you just seem to be acting contrary for the sake of being contrary, lol. As someone that actually does exactly what you say nobody does, especially with clear stickers, I am not sure what to say but I have more than once even cut part of the leftover sticker sheet to make my own stickers, love the chrome reflective ones for this. Anyway good luck with your cause, I would love to see more printed parts with no price increase.

Edited January 31, 2023 by Johnny1360

[danth]

Clear stickers? Chrome stickers? What?

[Johnny1360]

Yes, or transparent background stickers and metallic reflective stickers if you choose. These work very well on most all colors and since I don't mind cutting them most all pieces.

Do I do these all the time or even often? No but it is an option I will absolutely use if necessary.

Edited January 31, 2023 by Johnny1360

[danth]

From what decade?