The shift from creativity to consumer fan base?

[MAB]

2 hours ago, jodawill said:

I think there's room for people who both love creating MOCs and for people who are simply passive fans who appreciate the sets. The question I have for you, if you're reading this, is do you really take the time to appreciate what you have? Do you stop buying things long enough to smell the roses? Or are you just obsessed with accumulating more stuff? And if you're a builder, are you building because you enjoy it, or are you building because you're waiting for the next notification that someone "liked" your photos?

I imagine most collectors appreciate what they have, just in a different way to builders. Even people that keep stuff sealed. I've got a built IDEAS Mars Rover, but I've also got one sealed. I appreciate them both, in different ways.

[MAB]

3 hours ago, jodawill said:

Other people may have different perspectives, but I think there's been a marked change in the AFOL community since I found it. MOCs used to be the primary focus. The Lego subreddit used to be filled with cool creations. When I joined our local LUG, the meetings had a positive atmosphere. Everyone got together to discuss their latest creations and spend time with nice people.

There has also been a marked change in the company too which has also fed change in AFOL nature. Well, multiple marked changes really:

Blind bag collectable minifigures with check lists (collect them all).

Brickheadz Funkopops(numbered to collect them all).

Ending one year in-house themes and ending modern versions of classics.

Display only objects.

Adult sets.

Large numbers of expensive sets (for adults and kids).

Widespread media for in-house themes (collect all the characters).

Huge range of licensing (collect all the characters). 

 

Nearly all of these lead to collecting and keeping sets rather than creativity. I don't mind too much if my kids have a £35 set and they mix it all up with other small sets. A £70 set, I would really discourage mixing and creativity.  £200, no way are they mixing it up.

 

But we also have so many more ways to get MOC building, creativity kits. Job lots of used, cheap sets that don't sell well and are discounted (although less easy now compared to 8-10 years ago), bricklink, PAB/B+P. I purposely buy lots of random stuff for my kids, and specific but useful bits for me, for MOC building so we don't have to mix up (valuable) sets.

 

That is not to say MOC builders have changed or disappeared. There are way more MOC builders now than 20 years ago. It is just that there are even more collectors / non-MOCers now too, changing the balance overall.

Edited July 12, 2022 by MAB

[Toastie]

1 hour ago, Karalora said:

Honestly some of the comments on this thread are very discouraging.

Oh my. Yes, I can see that. But it shouldn't be the case - never ever.

The OP theme is an extremely complex question. To me, this is multidimensional - and unfolding such a matter will naturally bring about many opinions, arguments, reasoning, and perspectives. Some are encouraging, others are meaningless, some are neutral, and some are discouraging.

I strongly believe, member age should also be counted in. I keep telling the students in our university that the difference between them and me is not being smarter, tougher, better paid, whatever - it is simply age. I simply had 40+ years more time (well, you know, at this age, decline is certainly setting in as well ) to get an advantage. It is not the brain size, nor the capabilities - it is the time I had, getting me some "advantage". Which I never play out, but that is another discussion.

Same thing here: When building for 40+ years, yes, then the brick separator looks like from planet WhoNeedsThat - "we" did not have that thing back then when we were young. Just to realize a little later that this thing comes in handy when you don't want bite marks on your bricks.

I do post things I came up with rarely here on EB - it is generally a feeling of ... it has been done for sure by other folks and "better". But then - from time to time, it is: I will just do it. And then do it. Not believing in 10k replies to get into a club, no, just to tell people around here what I did. Just that. I am prepared to read: Nice, BTW seen this link? Not a problem, no I did not see this link, and this link is certainly valuable for me!

Post, if you feel like posting. Show things, tiny or big, if >you< feel like it is worth it. From >your< very own perspective. If somebody replies with: Has been done (link). Reply: Thanks for that link, I am learning. That is what I do. I still learn from all the folks around here.

Fan base - two words I truly don't like. Fan. Define fan - oh my. Am I a fan of TLG? Hell, no. I like their product. Does that make me a fan of LEGO? Hell no. I like to build with the product. Fan ... For some reason, I tend to relate that term to soccer ... no. Sorry. I like things. Or not. But I am not a fan. 

Base? Huh? For a commercial product, other companies are on par or better with? Creativity wise? And price wise? Because they don't have to pay a gazillion lawyers to secure the IDEAS? 

No. Do it your way. Do post here whatever you see fit. Do not care about negative waves. Live your creativity. Be yourself, as Snoopy told us.

And just don't care about fans or a base.

All the best,
Thorsten

 

Edited July 12, 2022 by Toastie

[jodawill]

30 minutes ago, Karalora said:

This advice is fine as far as personal enjoyment and enrichment goes, but the community aspect is all about sharing...and you can't share if no one wants to take what you've got. You say it should be about discussion rather than approval, but in order to have either you have to be able to draw some eyeballs.

If the attitudes in this thread are typical, then the AFOL community is going to wind up gatekeeping itself out of existence. If you disdain the entry points into your hobby--in this case, official sets (particularly licensed ones that can attract people via their non-LEGO interests)--people will stop entering.

I don't know what you've posted in the past, but I imagine a post asking a question would generate a lot more discussion than a post that's simply photos of your latest MOC. Even great MOCs don't generate a lot of discussion usually. If you posted a photo of your MOC and asked a specific question on how to improve it, you might get a lot of insightful comments. We're having a great discussion right here, after all.

4 minutes ago, MAB said:

There has also been a marked change in the company too whichhas also fed change in AFOL nature. Well, multiple marked changes really:

Blind bag collectable minifigures with check lists (collect them all).

Brickheadz Funkopops(numbered to collect them all).

Ending one year in-house themes and ending modern versions of classics.

Display only objects.

Adult sets.

Large numbers of expensive sets (for adults and kids).

Widespread media for in-house themes (collect all the characters).

Huge range of licensing (collect all the characters). 

 

Nearly all of these lead to collecting and keeping sets rather than creativity. I don't mind too much if my kids have a £35 set and they mix it all up with other small sets. A £70 set, I would really discourage mixing and creativity.  £200, no way are they mixing it up.

 

But we also have so many more ways to get MOC building, creativity kits. Job lots of used, cheap sets that don't sell well and are discounted (although less easy now compared to 8-10 years ago), bricklink, PAB/B+P. I purposely buy lots of random stuff for my kids, and specific but useful bits for me, for MOC building so we don't have to mix up (valuable) sets.

They've promoted the idea of "collecting them all" for a long time. In the Mania Magazines, they used to print posters of collections of sets with boxes for you to write "Date I Built." I think the two biggest contributors you mentioned are the licensed sets (which draw in a broader audience of collectors) and, most importantly, I think, "display only objects."

Take that new Bowser set for example. It's an absolutely PHENOMENAL creation. I'm absolutely in love with it. But am I going to buy it? No. Not because of the price, but there aren't a lot of parts that appeal to me. If I bought it, I'd build it and set it on a shelf and just take it out to play with it occasionally. That's not why I buy Lego. But that's the kind of consumerism they're promoting with sets like that. That's the kind of thing where I would be really excited to see it as a MOC from a Eurobricks member, but I don't need to go out and copy someone else's MOC.

[MAB]

3 hours ago, jodawill said:

The problem I have with this shift in the AFOL community is that, from my perspective, it doesn't seem like most people are really appreciating what they have. People buy things simply because they need to add to their collection. People build their sets once, then let them collect dust, or they set them on a shelf next to hundreds of other sets. Fewer people are buying sets merely for the parts and to enjoy the creative process. It's just consumerism. A company releases a product, they convince us we can't live without it, then once the newness wears off, we rinse and repeat. I think there's something different here from merely being someone who enjoys Legos and appreciates the official sets. This is an unhealthy relationship with our stuff, and I think it reveals the brokenness within us.

It is interesting. I have some LOTR MOCs that I have had for about 10 years now, built when the first sets came out. I built the sets, broke them apart after a couple of weeks, bought extra on BL and made some two sided scenery MOCs to display the minifigures on my home office shelf. I dust them a few times a year, I occasionally move the minifigs around, probably twice a year I rotate them to show the other scenes. I appreciate them a lot, I look at them most days. But I could have easily used the official sets to do the same thing (if they fit on my shelf!).

I still enjoy MOCing, but I can afford enough bricks that I don't need to take apart MOCs or sets. Sometimes I can go a few months without making a MOC but still appreciate what I have displayed all that time. 

[MAB]

27 minutes ago, jodawill said:

That's not why I buy Lego. But that's the kind of consumerism they're promoting with sets like that.

If they make a set that is a great parts pack for your (or my) building style and you (or I) buy it, then it is still consumerism. We are buying to increase our collections to make bigger or more MOCs or use new techniques. By designing and selling new must have parts they are also promoting consumerism. We feel we must have it to make bigger, better, more, new, ... We buy new sets or parts to mix with our old to do what we enjoy. That is not necessarily that different to someone wanting to buy a new set to display with their old to enjoy looking at.

The only people not sucked into consumerism are the people still using only the bricks they had back in the 1970s or 80s or whenever they first built with LEGO. 

Edited July 12, 2022 by MAB

[jodawill]

17 hours ago, MAB said:

If they make a set that is a great parts pack for your (or my) building style and you (or I) buy it, then it is still consumerism. We are buying to increase our collections to make bigger or more MOCs or use new techniques. By designing and selling new must have parts they are also promoting consumerism. We feel we must have it to make bigger, better, more, new, ... We buy new sets or parts to mix with our old to do what we enjoy. That is not necessarily that different to someone wanting to buy a new set to display with their old to enjoy looking at.

The only people not sucked into consumerism are the people still using only the bricks they had back in the 1970s or 80s or whenever they first built with LEGO. 

I don't think that buying things you use is consumerism. To me, consumerism is constantly buying more stuff not because of the use or enjoyment you get from the items, but because of a compulsion to buy more because of your exposure to marketing (and a flaw in your character). You can fall prey to consumerism by buying sets, but I've also met a lot of people who are obsessed with buying individual parts they don't use. It's a bit of a running joke that some AFOLs simply collect parts and don't actually build anything because they're too busy to use them or buy more than they could ever possibly use.

There's nothing inherently wrong with something like the new Bowser set, but sets like that lend themselves to unhealthy, consumerist behavior, versus a set that includes much more general parts that encourage people to use their imaginations.

[MAB]

29 minutes ago, jodawill said:

I don't think that buying things you use is consumerism. To me, consumerism is constantly buying more stuff not because of the use or enjoyment you get from the items, but because of a compulsion to buy more because of your exposure to marketing (and a flaw in your character). You can fall prey to consumerism by buying sets, but I've also met a lot of people who are obsessed with buying individual parts they don't use. It's a bit of a running joke that some AFOLs simply collect parts and don't actually build anything because they're too busy to use them or buy more than they could ever possibly use.

There's nothing inherently wrong with something like the new Bowser set, but sets like that lend themselves to unhealthy, consumerist behavior, versus a set that includes much more general parts that encourage people to use their imaginations.

Most collectors (even sealed box collectors) do use and enjoy what they buy. They just use it in a different way to a MOCer. Collecting and enjoying what you collect is not a character flaw. If it is people buying stuff then hiding it away, or not able to move because of stacked high boxes, and they keep buying as they have to have it but not enjoying it, then I'd agree they have a problem. 

It is not unhealthy to buy something you enjoy, build it as LEGO intended and display it. And it shouldn't matter to anyone what someone else does with what they buy, and they certainly shouldn't be judged for enjoying it in a different way to others.

If there was a group of 100 people that enjoy MOCing and displaying MOCs and a group of 100 that like to display sets, then the popularity grows and then 150 like MOCs and 400 like displaying sets and this leads to more variation in sets and parts, more discussion about MOCs and significantly more discussion about sets, I think it is a good thing. MOCs may be a minority of the community but it is still more popular than before, with a wider range of parts, inspiration from official sets and inspiration from new minifigures or parts.

[Peppermint_M]

I think another issue that has hit creativity shared online: Disagreeing = Hate. Questioning = Bullying. Criticism = Violence/Abuse. Online discourse has become fraught with firebombs and mines. It is a generational difference as well as a societal difference to ten years ago (or less/more). It then takes the adage "If you can't say something nice, don't say anything at all", mixed with the fact that people feel spammy to say "Nice." or "Cool" as a reply to a thread, you don't get any replies or discussion. So the person who shared stops, because they feel it is pointless to share.

A comment like "I don't think the Sand Green works as well as Olive Green would" on someone's MOC could spark someone spiralling off into an argument and possibly not even with or between the OP and commenter. 

Next, younger Adult LEGO fans who ten years ago were joining a Forum are now no longer joining. Or if they are, they do not use a forum like we did so they are likely to see something and move on.

Gatekeeping sucks, I won't say anyone is not a "real fan" but I think people who prefer to keep sets as built on a shelf are missing out on something that gives great joy. You do not need to be a master, or even acknowledged by tens (let along hundreds and thousands) that is Like chasing and only leads to sadness. We forget that we can just do, we do not need to be experts. 

 

 

[Feuer Zug]

18 hours ago, Peppermint_M said:

I think another issue that has hit creativity shared online: Disagreeing = Hate. Questioning = Bullying. Criticism = Violence/Abuse. Online discourse has become fraught with firebombs and mines. It is a generational difference as well as a societal difference to ten years ago (or less/more). It then takes the adage "If you can't say something nice, don't say anything at all", mixed with the fact that people feel spammy to say "Nice." or "Cool" as a reply to a thread, you don't get any replies or discussion. So the person who shared stops, because they feel it is pointless to share.

A comment like "I don't think the Sand Green works as well as Olive Green would" on someone's MOC could spark someone spiralling off into an argument and possibly not even with or between the OP and commenter. 

Next, younger Adult LEGO fans who ten years ago were joining a Forum are now no longer joining. Or if they are, they do not use a forum like we did so they are likely to see something and move on.

Gatekeeping sucks, I won't say anyone is not a "real fan" but I think people who prefer to keep sets as built on a shelf are missing out on something that gives great joy. You do not need to be a master, or even acknowledged by tens (let along hundreds and thousands) that is Like chasing and only leads to sadness. We forget that we can just do, we do not need to be experts.

"Nice" post. Actually, it is an excellent look at the current state of affairs online. With less in-person social interaction than ever before, many lead their lives online. They crave acceptance and feedback, but are lacking the ability to take anything but positive comments. Sometimes, even the spam comments are appreciated because if validates and acknowledges the person's work. Each person has their own concept of what they want and seek.

I agree that the nature of forums does fit better with the "mature" crowd that grew up with less sophisticated social network systems. I get the feeling many today seek instant or near-real time responses and praise for their work. I'm happy if I get one or two people acknowledging that I actually built something in a week. Again, different levels of expectations. Eurobricks is nowhere near as fast as Instagram and it might show in our demographic.

[Toastie]

20 hours ago, Peppermint_M said:

I think another issue that has hit creativity shared online: Disagreeing = Hate. Questioning = Bullying. Criticism = Violence/Abuse.

From my perspective: Absolutely true - your entire post.

And that is why I am here on EB and nowhere else. Could be that I am too narrow-minded, but I feel very comfortable here. Forum (as in "outdated platform type") or not. 

Or maybe the forum style and the folks taking care of it makes all the difference.

Best,
Thorsten

[koalayummies]

6 hours ago, Feuer Zug said:

I agree that the nature of forums does fit better with the "mature" crowd that grew up with less sophisticated social network systems.

 

4 hours ago, Toastie said:

And that is why I am here on EB and nowhere else. Could be that I am too narrow-minded, but I feel very comfortable here. Forum (as in "outdated platform type") or not.

And the fact that EB isn't a gigantic multinational data mining corporation who's primary goal is to turn users into commodities in order to sell advertising and driving engagement by intentionally sowing division and animosity while simultaneously eroding liberty and democracy around the world. FoLlOw Me On InStAgRaM.

[Toastie]

3 minutes ago, koalayummies said:

And the fact that EB isn't a gigantic multinational data mining corporation who's primary goal is to turn users into commodities in order to sell advertising and driving engagement by intentionally sowing division and animosity while simultaneously eroding liberty and democracy around the world.

Yessir!

Best wishes,
Thorsten

[jodawill]

5 minutes ago, koalayummies said:

 

And the fact that EB isn't a gigantic multinational data mining corporation who's primary goal is to turn users into commodities in order to sell advertising and driving engagement by intentionally sowing division and animosity while simultaneously eroding liberty and democracy around the world. FoLlOw Me On InStAgRaM.

Don't forget to smash that like button and subscribe! Look at all the cool Patron supporters scrolling across the screen! No, we just have, "Support my Ideas project!"

Forums lend themselves to more nuanced and intelligent discussions. It's hard to have a meaningful conversation when you're limited to a small number of characters with no newlines and you're forced to type the message on your phone. Reddit's commenting format is a lot better, but I think the voting system, the more general audience, and the fact most people are anonymous makes it a really toxic platform.

[Toastie]

1 hour ago, jodawill said:

It's hard to have a meaningful conversation when you're limited to a small number of characters with no newlines

Absolutely true.

But even if you would have - let's say on a next generation super-duper modern power-play platform with all printable characters imaginable, unlimited number of characters allowed, BUT with several like or suffer buttons and apparently a (of course non-existing) direct link to the TLG familie's living room where they apparently decide (of course they don't) on what is the next IDEA will be to be cranked out ... it certainly will turn - well - into a toxic environment. In the world we are living in today, almost naturally. This all reverts back to what @Peppermint_M, @koalayummies, @Feuer Zug and so many others have said. 

1 hour ago, jodawill said:

Forums lend themselves to more nuanced and intelligent discussions.

Absolutely. When moderated in exactly that way: Intelligent, which includes nuances, tolerance (to a certain degree, but/and carefully judged), and the will to push that through - the latter - for me the toughest part. EB exists for some considerable time now, some folks may experience like "eternally".

There is another thing I really enjoy here on EB: The humor. The different kinds of humor, as this is a multinational platform, the willingness of the moderators to let it play out. Actually, I love it. Nothing is better than a smile from time to time, or a loud laughter ... happened to many times here. From the heart.

Best wishes and skol,
Thorsten

     

[samsz_3]

Glad I found this topic, because its something I've been thinking about for a while. Agree with a lot of things that have been said here and won't repeat...instead here is a long wordy ramble from a young AFOL who probably spent more time designing steam train MOCs on LDD then playing with my City sets between ages 7 and 10... (feel free to skip)

One thing that I do really think has harmed creativity is liscensed themes. And I say this as someone who's collection post dark ages is made of Star Wars sets. For example, a kid in the 80s with a classic space set may think "wow, this is a fun spaceship, but I could add extra rockets to make it faster, or cooler wings etc..." but a kid now with a star wars set will think "this is my x wing fighter, and it looks like an x wing and plays like an x wing". A kid would have no reason to take parts of a Star Wars ship apart or add different add ons etc, because it wouldn't look like what it's meant to be. Same with other themes... 

Nothing is wrong with building sets as per the instructions, and for MOC builders that's where you first learn skills and techniques. However I think LEGO definatley has moved away from pushing creativity with sets. One intresting reason for this that I haven't seen discussed here is how specialised parts have become. I'm not talking about big boat/plane/bionicle pieces, but there is just so much variety in parts now, if you buy a normal, non classic/creator set, there are hardly any standard bricks, instead a lot of plates (increasingly non rectangular), slopes, wedges, brackets, SNOT bricks... and that makes sets much more detailed - but at a cost of what they can be rebuilt into.

For a bit of context, I started playing with LEGO as a child in about 2006, went into my dark ages around 2011, and came back as a TFOL in 2018. My first non technic set back was 75218 (2018 X Wing), and there were just so many new parts that blew my mind - not because they were new shapes - but because they were effectively a part that I would have made from mulltiple parts as a kid. For example, the L shape tiles, 2x3 tiles, all the new brackets that were introduced around 2013 (I think from checking bricklink). This increased speciallity, reduces reusability.

I don't think the creative side of the hobby is dying, but with social media, people will show off their set builds, rather than like the 2000s when people would use LEGO social media to show off MOCs. My favourite LEGO theme was and still is trains. I remember looking through Eurobricks, flickr and youtube seeing really cool train MOCs when I was young. These inspired me to build my own - on LDD. This is because I didn't have the parts to build steam train MOCs as a kid - I was lucky enough to get the Emerald Night for my 7th birthday but there was no way I was taking that apart for pieces, and the rest of the stuff I had was City and Creator. (Also side note - sets have gotten increasingly more expensive, bigger, and there is more of an understanding of the resell value of LEGO, which also will drive people to not take stuff apart)

Another thing that makes mocing overwhelming is how expensive and difficult it is. For example, if you want to have a big LEGO parts room with different draws for different types of bricks - it takes time to amass a collection that size. If you design something on stud.io and try and bricklink the parts - you can easily end up spending over £100 for a 400 part model. If you saw a set with that kind of price per volume, you'd think it's ludicrous. Back between 2007 and 2010 (I think?) you could use LEGO Factory/Design By Me to order custom models from LDD, however I never could do that as a kid. So a question to older Eurobricks users... 

Was bricklink (or equivilant sites) around in the mid 2000s? And was using LEGO Factory/Design By Me a way people ordered parts for models? I think its such a shame TLG got rid of LEGO Factory as it was probably the most easy way to get parts for custom models (maybe not the cheapest?). As a child who was fairly good with computers I would design models, and ask for them for Christmas/Birthday's but I didn't get any (probably because a steam engine and 4 carriages was quite pricy...), however I remember my Dad giving me and ordered me 1 train chassis, 2 buffers, 4 wheels and 2 bogies. That was the basis that all my MOCs ended up using.

 

[jodawill]

11 minutes ago, samsz_3 said:

Was bricklink (or equivilant sites) around in the mid 2000s?

Bricklink has been around since 2000.

[Karalora]

4 hours ago, jodawill said:

Don't forget to smash that like button and subscribe! Look at all the cool Patron supporters scrolling across the screen! No, we just have, "Support my Ideas project!"

Forums lend themselves to more nuanced and intelligent discussions. It's hard to have a meaningful conversation when you're limited to a small number of characters with no newlines and you're forced to type the message on your phone. Reddit's commenting format is a lot better, but I think the voting system, the more general audience, and the fact most people are anonymous makes it a really toxic platform.

What I like most about fora is the organization of discussions into threads, with every post and comment saved, in order. Contrast this with something like Discord, where every channel is just a continuously scrolling blur of conversation, and if you don't enter a discussion as it's happening you basically lose the ability to even know about it, much less participate.

[MaximillianRebo]

5 hours ago, samsz_3 said:

One thing that I do really think has harmed creativity is liscensed themes. And I say this as someone who's collection post dark ages is made of Star Wars sets. For example, a kid in the 80s with a classic space set may think "wow, this is a fun spaceship, but I could add extra rockets to make it faster, or cooler wings etc..." but a kid now with a star wars set will think "this is my x wing fighter, and it looks like an x wing and plays like an x wing". A kid would have no reason to take parts of a Star Wars ship apart or add different add ons etc, because it wouldn't look like what it's meant to be. Same with other themes... 

As someone whose modern sets are also mostly Star Wars, a solution I found when MOCing was to go outside of canon: Kenner toys, non-canon SW cartoons from the 80s and particularly KOTOR and The Old Republic video games contain a huge amount of vehicles and possibilities for MOCs that scratch that SW itch while still giving a creative outlet that isn't trying to re-invent the X-Wing. Sure it took a few extra steps to find that material that maybe a kid wouldn't take, as they are happy with building and swooshing their favourite trilogy ship, but with the right approach a license can be a great jumping off point for someone like me to recreate existing images in Lego form - and admittedly I just can't get an original concept to pop in just the same way as a MOC of an existing license.

[jodawill]

This new The Office set perfectly summarizes everything that's gone wrong with the Lego community over the past several years. The build is uninspired. It's just a bunch of minifigures and, "Haha, I understand that reference!" I like the show, but I don't need to have my own Lego stapler in Jello. These TV show sets are a new low for Lego, to be honest. There's nothing creative here whatsoever. Even Star Wars has the building aspect. This is just nothing but, "Yes, I know that reference."

[Peppermint_M]

I was certainly browsing and using bricklink once I entered the AFOL sphere. Now, as then, I use it to get a few nice finishing touches or to get a lot of a part I already planned to use but ran out of (Like certain window glass colour etc), it is a rabbit hole I don't want to fall down. Though, if you have a specific project it might work out cheaper to purchase what you need. I supposed trains do cost a lot to MOC though!

Amassing a collection takes time and dedication for sure, but picking up bulk lots is a way to build up parts if you feel you need to have that for MOCs.

[samsz_3]

43 minutes ago, jodawill said:

This new The Office set perfectly summarizes everything that's gone wrong with the Lego community over the past several years. The build is uninspired. It's just a bunch of minifigures and, "Haha, I understand that reference!" I like the show, but I don't need to have my own Lego stapler in Jello. These TV show sets are a new low for Lego, to be honest. There's nothing creative here whatsoever. Even Star Wars has the building aspect. This is just nothing but, "Yes, I know that reference."

Yep. I think IDEAS should ban liscensed themes. They just don't show any creativity - instead it's "here's some minifigures you wanted, and some stickers with fun Easter eggs!!". And I say this as someone who loves Back to The Future and Doctor Who (and regrets not getting the ideas sets in my dark ages).

The new House Pocus set looks like a pretty decent building...but so many better and more creative (and maybe more importantly larger appeal with the AFOL community) projects were like the Steampunk explorers or Riverside scholars. 

[Lyichir]

I dunno... I'm not even a huge fan of licensed themes, but I see people creating memes, crossing over TV figs with other characters, or even just doing role-play with a single set on the internet all the time. And I think that's a form of creativity, too, like it or not. It seems weirdly dismissive to assume that the people who get these sets build them and never do anything else when them, when a big part of their design seems to be to function not just as a display piece (for which they are significantly less impressive than other sorts of sets) but as a stage for creative play (which their diorama-style open layouts are practically ideal for).

I also think something rubs me the wrong way about people whining and griping about these sorts of sets even when sets like the Galaxy Explorer and Lion Knights' Castle are coming out and being phenomenally well-received. The "trend" this sort of thread seems to be trying to describe, if it exists at all, seems to be toward offering a wider variety of experiences in Lego, to reach a wider audience. And dismissing that as lesser (especially when Lego continues to excel at the kinds of things AFOLs DO like alongside these newer sorts of subject matter) seems pretty gatekeep-y.

[woodford86]

1 hour ago, samsz_3 said:

Yep. I think IDEAS should ban liscensed themes. They just don't show any creativity - instead it's "here's some minifigures you wanted, and some stickers with fun Easter eggs!!". And I say this as someone who loves Back to The Future and Doctor Who (and regrets not getting the ideas sets in my dark ages).

The new House Pocus set looks like a pretty decent building...but so many better and more creative (and maybe more importantly larger appeal with the AFOL community) projects were like the Steampunk explorers or Riverside scholars. 

I couldn't agree more with this. Hocus Pocus for example, its project page even talks about how the upcoming movie makes it a great marketing opportunity. So it was never about being original and creative, it was about what's going to make Lego money?

 

38 minutes ago, Lyichir said:

I dunno... I'm not even a huge fan of licensed themes, but I see people creating memes, crossing over TV figs with other characters, or even just doing role-play with a single set on the internet all the time. And I think that's a form of creativity, too, like it or not. It seems weirdly dismissive to assume that the people who get these sets build them and never do anything else when them, when a big part of their design seems to be to function not just as a display piece (for which they are significantly less impressive than other sorts of sets) but as a stage for creative play (which their diorama-style open layouts are practically ideal for).

I also think something rubs me the wrong way about people whining and griping about these sorts of sets even when sets like the Galaxy Explorer and Lion Knights' Castle are coming out and being phenomenally well-received. The "trend" this sort of thread seems to be trying to describe, if it exists at all, seems to be toward offering a wider variety of experiences in Lego, to reach a wider audience. And dismissing that as lesser (especially when Lego continues to excel at the kinds of things AFOLs DO like alongside these newer sorts of subject matter) seems pretty gatekeep-y.

I think I'm on the same page, all this licensed stuff has zero appeal to me, but I also acknowledge that Lego has a huge market and obviously themes like Star Wars and Harry Potter sell like fire and a lot of people love those themes. I just wish they didn't come at the expense of Lego's more creative/IP themes like castle, space, pirate etc.

I mean there's what, 10(?) iterations of the Millennium Falcon now? The literal antithesis to creativity is releasing the same model over and over. I can only imagine if they'd have given us a castle theme instead of just a couple of those SW rehashes. But licensed sets print money, end of story.

TLDR I just don't understand why Lego can't do both.

[Karalora]

From TLG's point of view, a set like The Office is an opportunity to reach out to mainstream adults who otherwise would never have looked twice at LEGO. It's a hugely popular sitcom, people love having merch that references it, but not a lot of that merch is toys, meaning the license probably wasn't very expensive. The set will sell like hotcakes, and out of adults who buy it for themselves, some fraction will discover that they enjoy building with bricks and enter the hobby.

Are we really going to gatekeep how AFOLs find LEGO? Because if licensed sets are an invalid point of entry, you'll have to kick me out--I only got back into the bricks because of the ATLA sets back in the mid-00s.