Oversimplification

[Aanchir]

11 hours ago, AmperZand said:

I very much doubt an organisation the size of LEGO's is going to care much about treading on the toes of a few fans even if some of them are influencers. For one thing, the fan channels like Jang's are going to attract a different audience, namely AFOLs, to LEGO's own, i.e. KFOLs and non-FOLs (parents buying for kids etc). For another, big organisations don't think that way. If they see value in doing something, they just do it regardless of who else may be doing the same especially if the other is a disorganised assembly of private individuals.

As for fans doing a better job of producing such videos, again, I doubt that. LEGO would make use of professional videographers and animators (both physical and CGI) using state-of-the-art equipment and facilities.

My point is less about equipment, faciliities, etc than the fact that reviewers like Jang come closer to the sort of personality that often attract kids to YouTubers than LEGO would likely be as able to manage by approaching the task from a more "corporate" mindset. And that sort of personality element can often be a bigger factor in what YouTube channels kids are interested in than production values.

And while companies like LEGO might sometimes be quick to do stuff that they think will be good marketing whether or not there are already independent equivalents, I think that's often offset by the desire NOT to spend extra money trying to achieve the same outcomes that they're already getting via private individuals who don't even require payment from the company for what they do. I mean, it's not like Mojang's marketing department bothers filling the official Minecraft YouTube channel with the same sorts of "Let's Play" videos that so many Minecraft YouTubers already make, despite how popular those are with kids and how effective they are at helping to promote the game itself. From their perspective, that sort of redundancy would be a waste of resources.

I could be totally wrong about the type of strategies they're interested in, of course! I realize this is all just speculation. But if there IS a reason that they don't do as many "speed build" videos as AFOL Youtubers do, that desire to avoid paying for stuff that they already get from fans (either completely independent ones, or ones that LEGO is already connected with via their "Recognized LEGO Fan Media" program) seems like it could be as likely a reason as any.

Edited December 20, 2020 by Aanchir

[koalayummies]

1 hour ago, Aanchir said:

...the fact that reviewers like Jang come closer to the sort of personality that often attract [everyone]... And that sort of personality element can often be a bigger factor...

Absolutely. Jang's voice and speaking style is unmatched; he is the Bob Ross of Lego reviewers.

[MAB]

19 hours ago, AmperZand said:

So would I. As I said earlier in this thread, LEGO should do instruction videos in addition to paper or PDF ones, not instead of them.

Why go to the expense of doing them, adding to the cost of sets, if most people do not want them. Especially when fans make them for nothing.

Edited December 20, 2020 by MAB

[Mylenium]

19 hours ago, AmperZand said:

Oh, I don't know. I can imagine LEGO doing smaller boxes (many sets have unnecessarily large boxes) without instructions and branding them as greener versions. Would be desirable for shippers too such as Amazon as it would reduce volume (physical space) and weight.

Not really. Here's a few thoughts:

• LEGO sets don't max out a container's payloads or max volume, anyway. Nothing gained here.
• Same for unbundling individual cartons from a larger shipment and sort them e.g. into those trolleys sent out to individual store.
• Cartons need to have specific sizes to be stackable and easily storable in logistics centers.
• Annoying as it may be, LEGO boxes are oversized to minimize parts damage.
• Carrying around an extra carton with instructions just in case someone wants them along the logistics chain would be more trouble than its worth - too many people have to touch it to put in pre-counted booklets matching the rest of the stock, other people need to take out those instructions, this stuff needs to be stored somewhere.

You see, in logistics it's all about streamlining these processes and introducing a new way of doing things is a disturbance in the force that may cause much more complication than further optimizing things. And seriously, this little thing with the instructions does nothing to make LEGO "greener". It might safe a few trees and safe them two or three million a year on materials if they nixed all printed instructions, but compared to the rest of their materials intake this is marginal and laughable.

Mylenium

[Mylenium]

19 hours ago, AmperZand said:

As for fans doing a better job of producing such videos, again, I doubt that. LEGO would make use of professional videographers and animators (both physical and CGI) using state-of-the-art equipment and facilities.

Someone holding a consumer/ prosumer/ semi-pro camera in a white room is as good as it gets these days for most mundane tasks like corporate video, product presentations, wedding videos etc.. What do you expect "professionals" doing anything different, when you get 4k video on a 800 dollar camera? Nobody would use an expensive RED camera or whatever to shoot a LEGO build unless there is a genuine technical requirement, even less so for 300+ videos every half year. And I already mentioned that thing with voice-overs/ narration in different languages. It would be a major production, cost a lot of money and not be worth the effort. Similarly, you can't do it all CG. Who would pay for that? Do you have any idea how much effort has to go into that once you move beyond automated functions such as the ones found in Stud.io's renderer?! Sorry, but it's one thing if enthusiasts do that on their own time and dime, a completely different story if you need to pay people and equipment for doing it. That's one of the other truths here: If you did the math, even a successful YouTuber like Jang can only do this with self-exploitation because under the hood the economics are terrible. Imagine how poorly some little-viewed video on a Friends set would do on YouTube and then apply that to how LEGO would need to produce these videos. It just doesn't make sense to invest, say 10000 Euro, for something that nobody watches and they'd have to do it many times over every year. And let's face it: This stuff is tedious as hell. I've done 3D animation and other graphics for explainer videos and corporate stuff for over 20 years and I don't envy anyone having to put up with this on a day to day basis. It's extremely repetitive and dull a lot of the time.

Mylenium

[howitzer]

TLG will never replace printed instructions with a building video as it's obviously a very bad media to actually follow when building. The printed instructions have value in that one doesn't need a device to view them and they are very easy to browse to find if there was a mistake or something. They are not expensive to make or don't take much space in the box either, so little would be gained by ditching them. At the very most I can see them replacing printed instructions with downloadable PDF instructions but I see no gain in that either, as that would cut out those consumers who don't for one reason or another have a suitable device on their disposal to view the instructions. It's still primarily a toy for kids and while there are a lot of devices around nowdays, they're not everywhere and when printed instructions are included, the set is complete, nothing else is required to fully enjoy it (unless it's a Control+ or other such set).

[Driver Brandon Grumman]

22 minutes ago, howitzer said:

TLG will never replace printed instructions with a building video as it's obviously a very bad media to actually follow when building. The printed instructions have value in that one doesn't need a device to view them and they are very easy to browse to find if there was a mistake or something. They are not expensive to make or don't take much space in the box either, so little would be gained by ditching them. At the very most I can see them replacing printed instructions with downloadable PDF instructions but I see no gain in that either, as that would cut out those consumers who don't for one reason or another have a suitable device on their disposal to view the instructions. It's still primarily a toy for kids and while there are a lot of devices around nowdays, they're not everywhere and when printed instructions are included, the set is complete, nothing else is required to fully enjoy it (unless it's a Control+ or other such set).

I think this pretty much sums it up. 

[Mylenium]

1 hour ago, howitzer said:

The printed instructions have value in that one doesn't need a device to view them

Yupp, at least that's true.

1 hour ago, howitzer said:

they are very easy to browse to find if there was a mistake or something.

Not sure if I share this view, given how many times I felt dumb for possibly having done something wrong only to realize that there are actual errors in many instructions. But that's a whole different discussion, of course...

1 hour ago, howitzer said:

They are not expensive to make or don't take much space in the box either, so little would be gained by ditching them.

Yupp, exactly the point.

Mylenium

[koalayummies]

2 hours ago, howitzer said:

 They are not expensive to make or don't take much space in the box either, so little would be gained by ditching them.

The aspect that would lead to printed instructions being done away with is environmental. Plant pieces made from plants, the desire to move away from plastic packaging bags, the Royal Dutch Shell/Asia Pulp and Paper/Greenpeace campaign; TLG has concern for and also faces outside pressure regarding these issues.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Lego_Group#Environmental_issues

But the current batch of small yet always vocal and perpetually-change-averse Aggravated Fans Of Lego need not worry because it probably won't happen in your lifetime.

[howitzer]

31 minutes ago, koalayummies said:

The aspect that would lead to printed instructions being done away with is environmental. Plant pieces made from plants, the desire to move away from plastic packaging bags, the Royal Dutch Shell/Asia Pulp and Paper/Greenpeace campaign; TLG has concern for and also faces outside pressure regarding these issues.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Lego_Group#Environmental_issues

But the current batch of small yet always vocal and perpetually-change-averse Aggravated Fans Of Lego need not worry because it probably won't happen in your lifetime.

What I attempted to say was that leaving the instructions out would seriously compromise the quality of the product, and that's something TLG won't do.

I'm sure there is an environmental aspect to consider, but I'm not sure ditching printed instructions is going to even have a meaningful impact at the current state of things. The bricks themselves are of course by far the biggest offender here, but I bet packaging also has bigger impact than instructions. I'd be very interested to see if there's any actual (published) studies done on this, especially considering the alternatives, like switching to paper packaging instead of plastic bags and PDF instructions instead of printed ones. In the meantime though, the paper for instructions of course should come from sustainable sources.

Plastic or not, I have thought of Lego as a generally much more environmentally friendly toy than many others, simply because they are so durable and reusable. When I was a kid I had some Lego inherited from my parents' generation and I passed my old Lego down to my kid. Few other toys can be useful and fun literally over multiple generations.

[koalayummies]

5 hours ago, koalayummies said:

...it probably won't happen in your lifetime.

...but instructions will eventually be entirely digital. Lego fans want to soar across the galaxy faster than light, travel back in time to pirates, castles and dragons and build utopian mega-cities but apparently we lose a few with the idea of a world without paper instructions. R2D2 didn't deliver the Death Star plans on parchment so this really shouldn't be that hard to imagine. Bricks will be made from non-petroleum products; crude oil will not be the raw ingredient. Step-by-step instructions, regardless of the medium, are here to stay; the baffling trigger that kicked off this whole thread. A couple people can complain on the internet about change and their hankering obsession for nostalgia but it won't stop progress. The old and many of the current ways aren't working and they will be addressed.

Here's what Lego has already pledged or set as goals:

• Carbon neutral manufacturing operations by the end of 2022
• 2025 ambition to make all packaging 100% sustainable
• No waste to reach landfill by end of 2025
• 2030 ambition to have all products made from sustainable materials

Source: The Lego Group

[Toastie]

30 minutes ago, koalayummies said:

A couple people can complain on the internet about change and their hankering obsession for nostalgia but it won't stop progress.

And a couple of people >fight<. Right now. As they have done in the past. And will do in the future. For maybe a better world, >they< envision.

What is this: Some sort of LEGO religion? Just because they announce what they are planning renders it as set in stone? And be the wonderful future? And most importantly: Prone to any kind of discussion? Criticism? Alternatives? 

BMW, Mercedes-Benz, Google, Amazon, Siemens, and on and on and on - have all pledged they will make this world a better place. So far: Needs work. Serious work. They all currently just make money. Big time. A year ago, BWM waged the notion of the impossible electrical car. As of now they promote the electrical car as the one and only option for the future. Things do change. But sometimes the "things" need a very, very serious kick in the butt.

I believe in pointing out things. In discussing with no - zero - obligation. No TLG religion. To be honest: To get them into a better position. I would hate to see them drowning in competition. And that is why I like furious discussions here on EB. And not all that: They are wonderful, and will make it to eons of time, but rather: Very clear and bold criticism. To accomplish your goals you have pointed out so nicely. Telling them they are the best is, as far as I man concerned, not the way to go.

Best
Thorsten

 

 

 

 

[koalayummies]

1 hour ago, Toastie said:

Telling them they are the best is, as far as I man concerned, not the way to go.

Where is this?

[karmajay]

It seems easy enough to just open all the bags of a set at once if you want to up the complexity.Iit is always easier to make things more challenging for yourself then it is for someone not as gifted in building to simplify it. :)

[MAB]

13 hours ago, koalayummies said:

The aspect that would lead to printed instructions being done away with is environmental. Plant pieces made from plants, the desire to move away from plastic packaging bags, the Royal Dutch Shell/Asia Pulp and Paper/Greenpeace campaign; TLG has concern for and also faces outside pressure regarding these issues.

The instructions are already made from plants.

[Mylenium]

13 hours ago, koalayummies said:

The aspect that would lead to printed instructions being done away with is environmental.

Paper is easily recyclable and has been for years, printing inks have long moved to being non-toxic and even many auxiliary products involved in physical printing such as alcohol and other solvents are used in such low quantities these days, its impact on the whole environmental footprint for a company that produces plastic products can be debated. Sure, every little bit helps, but it's not that this particular thing would tilt the overall balance that much. And if you really were serious about it, you'd have to dig much deeper and discuss how much water making paper consumes. At the same time of course it's not that the Internet is running on thin air. Data centers and networks consume power, too, so the "praise the digital" chorus cannot be sung entirely uncritically. Also, on a side note, just look at how things have developed with e-books - everybody went crazy about abandoning printed paper books, yet here we are three years later and there's still a whole lot of books being printed physically...

Mylenium

[koalayummies]

6 minutes ago, MAB said:

The instructions are already made from plants.

Hey! Funny guy!

Maybe we can make pieces from old instructions then. Or Mylenium.

Just now, Mylenium said:

And if you really were serious about it

Super serial.

-username

[hollielucas]

I'm a few days late on this, but to refer to the original points:

Numbered bags are most likely a Lego quality control thing, correct parts in bags. correct bags in box.

Distinctly coloured bricks at stategic positions definatly help builders with impared vision.

However I do ignore the instruction to sort into coloured piles :)

[Pato Sentado]

I learned Technic when I was 12 and sets where more abstract and functional, like 8865.

I recently made the Ducati Panicle as an adult that can repair a real Ducati, and I was not sure of what I was mounting in a lot of gearbox steps.

In 8865 each steps means a lot of pieces and "find the 8differences", now there are steps with 2 or 3 pieces.