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Posted

I'm gathering a load of Technic to give to one of my grandsons with the 'Wheeled Wonders' Ideas book, and would like some guidance on the compatibility of the different motors and battery boxes. In particular the  58120c01 or the 8883 motors and the 54950c01 or the 8881 battery boxes. Further, can either of those battery boxes connect up to the little cube 9v motors (43362c01/71427c01)?

Thanks 

Posted (edited)

There's two systems: Power Functions and the older 9V system.  Both are 9V, and both use a 2x2 square connector, but the connectors are different.  The old system has a contact on one corner of each stud, whereas PF replaces two studs with a 4 contact connector.

  Quote

58120c01 or the 8883

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Those are the same thing, and it's Power Functions

  Quote

54950c01 or the 8881

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The former is old 9V and the latter is Power Functions.

The PF stuff will all work together, and the old 9V stuff will work with the little cube 9V motors.

Power Functions extension cables have a connector for the old 9V system on the underside of one end of the connector, which allows you to connect between the two systems.  The extra pins in the PF system provide unswitched 9V power, which is used by the servo motor and the IR receiver, so if you want to use either of those, you'll need a PF battery box.

There's lots of good information here: https://www.philohome.com/tech.htm

 

Edited by pdw
Posted

That's brilliant, PDW. Thank you very much for such a comprehensive reply. And also for the link to the fascinating website.

I suppose that with the PF battery box, my grandson can incorporate the remote control from his train into his models, if he wants to.

Thanks again

Posted (edited)

Sorry to complicate things, but there's more to take into account:

1. Train remote control will technically work with PF motors / battery box. but it behaves differently. Long story short, if you're going to control a vehicle, you'd better off with another type of remote.

2. To use a remote you will also need to add PF IR receiver into the mix.

3. If you're going to build wheeled vehicles, it's extremely cumbersome (but possible) to control it without PF servo motor for steering function. PF servo is a rare and expensive motor with some known quirks.

 

But there's more -- whole PF system is being replaced by the newer standard, Powered Up. Afaik, PF won't be produced after 2020.

 

If your grandson doesn't posses any PF elements yet, you might want to consider jumping in Powered Up system.

Price is roughly the same, there are a lot of different elements, and finally Lego have implemented same standard through different lines -- Technic, Mindstorms and Spike Prime. And L and XL motors also can function as servos, that's a great relief.

The only thing to bear in mind is that Powered Up is aimed for controlling via bluetooth with smart devices, like smartphones and tablets. If it's ok with you, there are a lot of possibilities to extend the experience -- e.g. physical gamepad can be easily integrated.

 

Please feel free to ask if you need an additional information on Powered Up, happy to help.

In any case, I'm sure your grandson will be thrilled, and it's an excellent choice of the book!

Edited by FoxOne
Posted
  On 12/1/2020 at 7:01 PM, FoxOne said:

 

But there's more -- whole PF system is being replaced by the newer standard, Powered Up. Afaik, PF won't be produced after 2020.

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Yep. Before long, the only tolerably cheap option for PF will likely be the knock-off ones. I believe Servos, IR receivers, and some other parts are out of stock (for me) at Lego Shop, and unlikely to be restocked. Once the rest are gone too, I imagine used prices will continue creeping up to the point where it doesn't make sense anymore to stick with the real stuff.

Posted

Thanks FoxOne and 2GodBDGlory.

  On 12/1/2020 at 7:01 PM, FoxOne said:

Sorry to complicate things, but there's more to take into account:

1. Train remote control will technically work with PF motors / battery box. but it behaves differently. Long story short, if you're going to control a vehicle, you'd better off with another type of remote.

2. To use a remote you will also need to add PF IR receiver into the mix.

3. If you're going to build wheeled vehicles, it's extremely cumbersome (but possible) to control it without PF servo motor for steering function. PF servo is a rare and expensive motor with some known quirks.

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Might forget steering for now. In the past we've made little buggies with NXT servo motors and the 'intelligent' brick controlled via Bluetooth with a phone app, but as you say, quite cumbersome.

  On 12/1/2020 at 7:01 PM, FoxOne said:

But there's more -- whole PF system is being replaced by the newer standard, Powered Up. Afaik, PF won't be produced after 2020.

Expand  

Thanks for this tip and offer of help, although we are quite used to being 'behind the curve' - still using Mindstorm NXT components being an example!

  On 12/1/2020 at 7:01 PM, FoxOne said:

In any case, I'm sure your grandson will be thrilled, and it's an excellent choice of the book!

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Yes, hoping the book will be a good move away from kits. This grandson made his Vernie robot from his Lego Boost Creative kit last September and still hasn't taken it apart yet.

  On 12/1/2020 at 10:06 PM, 2GodBDGlory said:

Yep. Before long, the only tolerably cheap option for PF will likely be the knock-off ones. I believe Servos, IR receivers, and some other parts are out of stock (for me) at Lego Shop, and unlikely to be restocked. Once the rest are gone too, I imagine used prices will continue creeping up to the point where it doesn't make sense anymore to stick with the real stuff.

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Are the knock-off ones any good? I assumed they would be rubbish.

Thanks again everybody. Great forum.

Posted
  On 12/2/2020 at 12:05 PM, Little Clanger said:

 

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  On 12/2/2020 at 12:05 PM, Little Clanger said:
  On 12/1/2020 at 10:06 PM, 2GodBDGlory said:

Yep. Before long, the only tolerably cheap option for PF will likely be the knock-off ones. I believe Servos, IR receivers, and some other parts are out of stock (for me) at Lego Shop, and unlikely to be restocked. Once the rest are gone too, I imagine used prices will continue creeping up to the point where it doesn't make sense anymore to stick with the real stuff.

Expand  

Are the knock-off ones any good? I assumed they would be rubbish.

Thanks again everybody. Great forum.

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I am not sure. I have a couple fake RC Buggy motors I got about five months ago, and both are working great despite some hard usage, including powering them from a hobby 9.6V battery.

I have some other parts on the way that I have ordered; hopefully they will last for a while!

Apparently fake Servos aren't much good, because they do not have any proportional control, and must rotate the full 90 degrees before coming back to center, even if the controller is only tapped.

Nonetheless, I think a lot of the parts could be worth it, because (especially if found on sale) they can be between half to a fifth of the prices for Lego ones, so even if reliability is worse, at least replacements are dirt cheap.

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