Motor and battery, and pneumatics advice needed.

[MinusAndy]

The build I’m working on at the moment needs two motors and a battery box in it. I have the control+ set from 42099 but the hub is very bulky and is already taking up too much real estate in the fuselage. I’m totally clueless when it comes to Lego power stuff, before 42099 all I had was those 4 stud long grey motors from the 80’s.

is there a smaller battery box/controller option than control +? The motors from 42099 are a reasonable size so those are fine, I suspect I’ll need different connections though?

Edited August 1, 2020 by MinusAndy

[HUWI]

You're talking about the Technic Hub, Control+ is only the app. So i need to know how many Motors you want to run and with wich Device/App.

If you want to use the Brick Controller 2 App with an BT-controller for example, you can take the Train Hub bb0892c01 with two ports. but it won't run with the closed system of Control+

[MinusAndy]

Ahh ok. yeah I have the technic hub. Is there a smaller hub? I’d like remote control but all I need is on and off on both motors and variable speed on one. I’m not fussed about using the control + app, I’ve already got it working with brick controller

[HUWI]

9 minutes ago, MinusAndy said:

Ahh ok. yeah I have the technic hub. Is there a smaller hub? I’d like remote control but all I need is on and off on both motors and variable speed on one. I’m not fussed about using the control + app, I’ve already got it working with brick controller

Ok, so try the Link in the partnumber. If you search this hub by it's partnumber you will get better prices. The set number is 88009, then it's much expensive and as set you will get a plastic bag...

With BC2 you can also set one motor as servo, if you want.

[MinusAndy]

Cool. Thanks, I’ll check it out

[MinusAndy]

BuWizz seems another option. I assume I’d need power functions motors though as the plugs look different?

[suffocation]

Yep, the new motors' plugs won't work with the BuWizz unit.

In terms of power, speed and space optimisation, it's hard to beat the BuWizz+Power Functions combo.

[HUWI]

Your starting by neerly zero, so you have following options:

 

Power funktions (PF)

old system, sale will be stopped, nobody knows exactly when

good RC only with Sbrick or Buwizz

servo vervy expensive

 

Powered Up (PU)

cheap, when you by at bricklink

actual and it will give more parts in the future

combineable with WeDo Motors

if the big hub is to big you can take the smaler 2 port hub

with selfmade adapters and RC-lipo more power possible

neerly everey motor can be used as servo

 

Buwizz

expensive, but with Power Functions (PF) plug & play

rechargeable battery and receiver in one box, so the power is fix

 

Sbrick

in combination with the rechargeable battery box also expensive, but you can split the two boxes in the model

or use an step down modul with RC Lipo.

If you want more models, you only need the cheeper sbrick and not for verey model a battery, so the first model ist the same price, the second is cheeper.

 

Conclusion:

take PU, it's actual, easy and you don't know how long PF will be available. The price for the rechargable box has risen drastically...

 

[dr_spock]

7 hours ago, MinusAndy said:

BuWizz seems another option. I assume I’d need power functions motors though as the plugs look different?

If you're starting new with no previous LEGO electrical systems, PU would be the easier way to go.  It may be possible to connect the new PU motors to the old PF/9V system. You won't be able to use the functions built in some of the new PU motors like rotation/angle sensing but they could work like dumb motors under PF. 

 

[TeamThrifty]

PU is the same connectors/motors as C+ though right? C+ is the model specific app that wraps the same physical components (or virtually the same, interchangeable motors etc)

So if he's got 42099 C+ components, what does he gain from PU? Just different/smaller hub...? (I get confused myself.. work keeps me away from Lego for 3 months and i forget the subtleties of the motor eco systems!!)

[dr_spock]

Powered UP, Mindstorm Spike, Boost, etc. all use the same connectors.  Whether an attached device works or not will depend on the firmware/software of the hub and smartdevice.  42099 has the technic hub with 4 ports and AA batteries.  The smaller city PU hub has 2 ports and uses AAA batteries.  It is same size as the Power Function AAA and rechargeable battery boxes.  The Powered UP app for it allows for your own programming in addition to the built-in ones. 

 

[HUWI]

1 hour ago, TeamThrifty said:

PU is the same connectors/motors as C+ though right?

Yes, let me tell so, a terrier is a dog, not every dog is a terrier.

C+ is exactly only the closed app for three sets. When not every Motor is mounted on the from LEGO intendet port you can't connect the app.

All devices, Trainmotor, trainhub (the small with 2 ports), xl, l, ect are Powered Up components. You can also use the WeDo 2.0 M Motor with PU.

The Hub in the 42099 is called "Technic Hub" but that dosen't matter, only if you want to use the C+ App.

If you want to program you can use the Powered Up App.

 

At the beginning it's very confused, but if you're using the "Brick Controller 2 App" (Playstore) with an BT-Controller it's very easy an you don't have to thing about names.

With an old Smartphone (Samsung Galaxy S5) you can also use LEGO IR.

 

Dr Spock was faster...

Edited July 18, 2020 by HUWI
dr. spock

[MinusAndy]

Basically I just need a smaller hub that will ideally work with two motors. I only need rudimentary control over the motors as all the functions are done with a distribution box rather than adding more and more motors. That 2 port hub looks ideal.

 

[HUWI]

Just now, MinusAndy said:

That 2 port hub looks ideal.

yes...

[MinusAndy]

Lol I know that was your first suggestion. Thanks! I just wanted to explore some other options, and have an excuse to buy more Lego!

[TeamThrifty]

2 hours ago, HUWI said:

Yes, let me tell so, a terrier is a dog, not every dog is a terrier.

Excellent analogy  

[2GodBDGlory]

On 7/18/2020 at 9:17 AM, HUWI said:

 

Powered Up (PU)

cheap, when you by at bricklink

 

Wow! I just checked prices for those PU components on Bricklink, and they are shockingly cheap! I take back some of my former comments (on other threads) about the ridiculous prices. Perhaps someday prices will get low enough that I can try out the system!

[howitzer]

4 hours ago, 2GodBDGlory said:

Wow! I just checked prices for those PU components on Bricklink, and they are shockingly cheap! I take back some of my former comments (on other threads) about the ridiculous prices. Perhaps someday prices will get low enough that I can try out the system!

Yeah, the prices are only ridiculous in the Lego's own online store. Apparently 42099 and 42100 flooded the secondary market with PU parts so you can get about four hubs from BL for the price of one from Lego.

[2GodBDGlory]

12 hours ago, howitzer said:

Yeah, the prices are only ridiculous in the Lego's own online store. Apparently 42099 and 42100 flooded the secondary market with PU parts so you can get about four hubs from BL for the price of one from Lego.

That's great news!

[MinusAndy]

I figured I’d update this thread as I’m now considering pneumatics in my build as well. It seems they have come on a bit since the red excavator I had around 30 years ago.

Is there a basic guide to the new system anywhere? I’m thinking of using a motorised pump to power pneumatic retracting undercarriage. Does the new system require an air tank? 
thanks for any help people can give me on this as I’m a bit out of touch.

@HUWI I owe you a beer for saving me a pile of cash and time for the hub advice!

[howitzer]

55 minutes ago, MinusAndy said:

I figured I’d update this thread as I’m now considering pneumatics in my build as well. It seems they have come on a bit since the red excavator I had around 30 years ago.

Is there a basic guide to the new system anywhere? I’m thinking of using a motorised pump to power pneumatic retracting undercarriage. Does the new system require an air tank? 
thanks for any help people can give me on this as I’m a bit out of touch.

@HUWI I owe you a beer for saving me a pile of cash and time for the hub advice!

No air tank required for usual applications, it's there just to store pressurized air so you can turn off the pump once in a while. A manometer has also been released, but it's pretty expensive, as are the air tanks.

Beyond that, there's not much that has changed since 8837 exavator, which I assume you're referring to. Cylinders are double-acting, valves work like they always did, and you obviously already know about motorized pumps. The parts have gone through minor updates, mostly regarding the change to studless system but functionally they are the same.

There are also longer pneumatic cylinders available than in the 1990's, but especially the thin ones are extremely expensive, as they have only been released in one set (42043).

[MinusAndy]

Thanks for that. The actuators were single acting on the set I had, I was tempted to buy the unimog from a few years back as it seems to contain everything I need but it’s eye wateringly expensive. 
 

[HUWI]

On 8/1/2020 at 11:40 AM, MinusAndy said:

 I owe you a beer for saving me a pile of cash and time for the hub advice!

With pleasure! I'll tell you when i'm in the UK. But the UK is big, so where exactly?

[MinusAndy]

Near Brighton. 
though I’m currently going through the motions with the postal service as they have delivered my hub to the wrong place and can’t work out where they left it.