Pirates Mafia III - Day Three

[Vincent Denis]

46 minutes ago, Alex Howe said:

I did set out with high hopes of engaging with everyone, hopes which were very swiftly crushed by the incredibly long and unnecessary posting that went on in Day 1 and also in Day 2.  By the end of Day 2 I will admit I had somewhat given up on being able to contribute anything without being immediately pounced on by the same two people as was happening time and time again.

*Fwom fwom—

I want you, and everybody, to know that I take this to heart. I'm truly sorry for contributing to the confusion on day one. If you were to slog through the interactions, which I don't recommend because it's truly not worth your time just for this, you would hopefully see I did reach a point where I realized I wasn't defending myself on the basis I thought I was and was really trying, after that point, to help improve the communication. I know that sentence is all sorts of vague and odd, I'm just trying to keep any judgements of Daniel out of it. Yes, I was frustrated and acted out on that quite a few times. I was trying to be productive and I eventually realized it was counter-productive to the overall scum hunt. I hope everyone realizes, and this is on more of a personal level, that I've improved on days two and three to be more concise and contribute less to the confusion that blew day one out of the water as an un-readable day in EB mafia history.  

That being said, I would take your statement more to heart if I had ever "pounced" on you. Did I respond to anything you said on day one or day two? I will admit that, when looking over the previous days, even I skip my posts on day one or pretty much any time I'm replying to Daniel. It's a lot and it did make it hard to read and still makes it hard to read. However, when I went through each thread the first time, I read everything Daniel had to say, even though I felt annoyed. Almost all. When I realize he's repeating himself, I do skip those. Maybe I have an inflated idea of my contributions on days two and three, but I don't think your assessment reflects reality. I could see you attributing the behavior to both of us continuously if you were just skimming the thread and not wanting to put the energy in because it's not worth it to you if you're not working for the town anyway. I could also see a townie refusing to read anything from me, after day one, yes. But I'm more inclined to believe that anybody fully paying attention and trying to hunt scum, would find more substance in my posts, or Daniel's, than "look he has 120 posts, that's too much." Maybe the scum did try to coordinate role claims via pm, but you just skimmed that too and didn't understand the importance and decided "my roleclaim will be vanilla!" I don't know if you're town or scum, for sure, but you being the only vanilla claim is odd. Your other behavior hasn't put you in the column of "working for the town" so, I'll leave my vote where it is.

*Fwom fwomma fwomma fwom fwom fwomma fwomma fwom fwom*

[Fabien Bellamy]

3 hours ago, Daniel Lucas said:

We don't know that. Killer is an additional role and if Joshua was the one before, some other scum got the part. Alex was only blocked at N1 as far as we know. He can be the killer now.

Hmm. You're right about that.

 

1 hour ago, Vincent Denis said:

People who didn't kill on N1: Emmett, Vincent, Fred, Peter, Andrew, Daniel, Alex

People who didn't kill on N2: Emmett, Daniel, Fred, Andrew, Daniel, Robin

Which makes the N1 list less useful, as the N1 killer could have been Joshua.

 

19 minutes ago, Peter Lyon said:

My point was that we don't have a 4th blocker claim, or any indication that players were blocked other than from the current three blockers.  That's one of the things that we needed to look for in the Emmett/Vincent interaction.  Vincent is saying he did not successfully target anyone, and that his role is sensitive enough to not want to share with the scum team.  If that's true, then he's  town and would likely be indicating that he was blocked from his action in order to offer us up the notion that there could be a 4th blocker out there.  He's not saying that, so if he's town, he doesn't think there's a 4th blocker.  If he's lying about it and is scum, then it's a nice place to hide.  Of course, in that case, a town blocker would've targeted him and let us know about it by now.  So there's probably no fourth blocker.

Vincent could have a role with a limited number of shots, like Robin. Therefore he wasn't blocked, yet didn't do anything on Night 1.

 

19 minutes ago, Peter Lyon said:

Since it's relevant to Alex's lynch, I will say that I'm not vanilla.  I'll admit to being in a similar boat to Vincent in that I believe my role is better kept out of scum's knowledge.  I understand that the same caveat I gave to Vincent being scum would apply to me... it is a nice place to hide if needed, but so be it.  I would argue that the folks who haven't confirmed their role or had another player suggest they can't be the killer are in the same group as Fabian, Trenton, and myself... unless we have a claim we can validate, we are all suspect of being the killer.

Not all claims can be easily proven. Vincent is giving us a perfect example. Doesn't do anything when he's tracked, yet claims a role. Unless one is blocker or tracker, there's not much to be done to validate a claim.

 

19 minutes ago, Peter Lyon said:

That's not true at all.  If he's claiming vanilla as scum, he can easily be the killer and just lying about it.  I hadn't previously considered the possibility he's Godfather, and that does make for a logical claim if you aren't thinking about the possibility of role madness.  It's entirely possible the scum team either didn't metagame the host or thought, "surely he wouldn't repeat the same thing".

He was blocked, so he couldn't be the night 1 killer. But after Joshua was lynched, he could have become the replacement killer indeed.

 

[Fred Dumont]

2 hours ago, Alex Howe said:

For what it is worth, I'll Vote: Fred Dumont, based on his voting pattern.  I think tomorrow it would be worth analysing carefully the people that pushed to vote for me without actually committing to it as well.  Emmett's tracker role claim was surprising but certainly more believable than the number of blocker claims, although it would be interesting to hear his result first tomorrow before any other results are reported, to test his findings.

I find the Fred/Andrew relationship interesting.  Fred coordinated blocking last night with Daniel, and conveniently cleared Andrew of being the killer. Notice Fred and Andrew have each targeted each other, such that they are validating each other's claims but nobody else is validating them.  I think everyone should take careful note of who they block tonight and who else other than them is able to validate their claims.  Perfectly conceivable that they could both be scum.  Blocker claims are very easy to hide behind for a few days, which is long enough to thin out town number sufficiently to grab a win.  It is very easy to report a successful or unsuccessful block against a fellow scum team mate, and one of them could be a scum blocker and block a townie to try and get independent validation.  Take careful note.

My voting pattern? I've just always wanted a lynch.

As for your accusation of Andrew, there's no reason he might not be scum, as well. If you're going to accuse me of being scum, why wouldn't I make sure Mr. Lucas and I both didn't target him? Why not someone else? Lying about results can be faked, as you mentioned. Risking we get lucky on blocking an investigator while I lie about blocking the supposed killer is an incredibly challenging move.

[Bob]

Vote Count:
Justin Reynaud - 2 (Fabien Bellamy, Emmett Ware)
Alex Howe - 7 (Robin Tremblay, Fred Dumont, Andrew Laurent, Daniel Lucas, Justin Reynaud, Vincent Denis, Peter Lyon)
Fred Dumont - 1 (Alex Howe)

With 12 players, a majority of 7 is required. A bit less than 20 hours remains in this day.

[Emmett Ware]

What is all that racket? Oh, a bandwagon. I was just trying to get some sleep...

Unless I can't count, and I literally just woke up, so it's a struggle, Alex already has enough votes to be lynched. No point switching my vote and getting attacked for that, and since I still don't trust Justin, I'll keep it where it is.

A quick mechanics question, does the night begin before or after all the actions are in? I'd like to discuss something privately before submitting mine.

Oh look, Bob just confirmed that I can count by posting it while I was typing this.

[Bob]

Just now, Emmett Ware said:

A quick mechanics question, does the night begin before or after all the actions are in? I'd like to discuss something privately before submitting mine.

The night begins when the day ends.

[Emmett Ware]

Just now, Bob said:

The night begins when the day ends.

Good, thanks!

[Alex Howe]

43 minutes ago, Fred Dumont said:

My voting pattern? I've just always wanted a lynch.

As for your accusation of Andrew, there's no reason he might not be scum, as well. If you're going to accuse me of being scum, why wouldn't I make sure Mr. Lucas and I both didn't target him? Why not someone else? Lying about results can be faked, as you mentioned. Risking we get lucky on blocking an investigator while I lie about blocking the supposed killer is an incredibly challenging move.

"I've just always wanted a lynch" doesn't sound like particularly townie reasoning when you are always the second vote on what are probably bandwagons against town players.  You certainly weren't in early wanting a lynch of Joshua, were you?

Not particularly challenging, no.  How is pretending to block someone on your own team a challenge?  You'd be at risk of being tracked, certainly, but yesterday why would a tracker have any reason to target you in particular?  I'd say it was a pretty safe move to attempt to cement you both as town by validating each other.  Just mighty convenient that you happened to block each other and it happened to be you, and not Daniel, that blocked Andrew last night, that is my point.  Your voting pattern does not assist you either.

As I said, I am not saying this for the benefit of changing things now, but rather because I would like everyone to scrutinise you, Andrew and Daniel very closely tomorrow once I flip town.  Good luck planning your actions tonight to give yourself validation, if you are scum.

2 hours ago, Vincent Denis said:

*Fwom fwom—

I want you, and everybody, to know that I take this to heart. I'm truly sorry for contributing to the confusion on day one. If you were to slog through the interactions, which I don't recommend because it's truly not worth your time just for this, you would hopefully see I did reach a point where I realized I wasn't defending myself on the basis I thought I was and was really trying, after that point, to help improve the communication. I know that sentence is all sorts of vague and odd, I'm just trying to keep any judgements of Daniel out of it. Yes, I was frustrated and acted out on that quite a few times. I was trying to be productive and I eventually realized it was counter-productive to the overall scum hunt. I hope everyone realizes, and this is on more of a personal level, that I've improved on days two and three to be more concise and contribute less to the confusion that blew day one out of the water as an un-readable day in EB mafia history.  

That being said, I would take your statement more to heart if I had ever "pounced" on you. Did I respond to anything you said on day one or day two? I will admit that, when looking over the previous days, even I skip my posts on day one or pretty much any time I'm replying to Daniel. It's a lot and it did make it hard to read and still makes it hard to read. However, when I went through each thread the first time, I read everything Daniel had to say, even though I felt annoyed. Almost all. When I realize he's repeating himself, I do skip those. Maybe I have an inflated idea of my contributions on days two and three, but I don't think your assessment reflects reality. I could see you attributing the behavior to both of us continuously if you were just skimming the thread and not wanting to put the energy in because it's not worth it to you if you're not working for the town anyway. I could also see a townie refusing to read anything from me, after day one, yes. But I'm more inclined to believe that anybody fully paying attention and trying to hunt scum, would find more substance in my posts, or Daniel's, than "look he has 120 posts, that's too much." Maybe the scum did try to coordinate role claims via pm, but you just skimmed that too and didn't understand the importance and decided "my roleclaim will be vanilla!" I don't know if you're town or scum, for sure, but you being the only vanilla claim is odd. Your other behavior hasn't put you in the column of "working for the town" so, I'll leave my vote where it is.

*Fwom fwomma fwomma fwom fwom fwomma fwomma fwom fwom*

It was more of a generic pounced-on-everyone type statement, not me in particular.  But I appreciate the sentiment of your post.  Take my words more as suggesting a way to encourage everyone else to speak up more going forward.  Hopefully that will provide room for people that were not saying much, like me, to step forward and contribute (or expose themselves!).

[Daniel Lucas]

1 hour ago, Emmett Ware said:

Unless I can't count, and I literally just woke up, so it's a struggle, Alex already has enough votes to be lynched. No point switching my vote and getting attacked for that, and since I still don't trust Justin, I'll keep it where it is.

You can switch votes anytime you want, like this:

Uvote: Alex Howe

See? Now you are perfectly capable to decide which one is more scummy in your opinion. Alex or Justin.

For you Alex: I f*uckin' hate that you've just found your voice now that we wagoned on you. Clearly you had just the same opportunity to speak through the whole game. Also you actually started to make sense.

22 minutes ago, Alex Howe said:

Not particularly challenging, no.  How is pretending to block someone on your own team a challenge?  You'd be at risk of being tracked, certainly, but yesterday why would a tracker have any reason to target you in particular?  I'd say it was a pretty safe move to attempt to cement you both as town by validating each other.  Just mighty convenient that you happened to block each other and it happened to be you, and not Daniel, that blocked Andrew last night, that is my point.  Your voting pattern does not assist you either.

As I said, I am not saying this for the benefit of changing things now, but rather because I would like everyone to scrutinise you, Andrew and Daniel very closely tomorrow once I flip town.  Good luck planning your actions tonight to give yourself validation, if you are scum.

As I've said before, I can't accept that there is a 4th blocker. I also pointed out that Andrew blocked Fred and Fred blocked Andrew back. And this is untouchable, unless both of them lies. No one else claimed blocker. Emmett and Vincent confirmed only each other. If some of them lies, both lies and Vincent was not blocked, Emmett is probably no Tracker. Fred and Andrew confirmed each other, if some of them lies, both lies. One of them still can be a blocker, which would explain this shady 4th block on Vincent.

I know for a fact that I'm town jailer. And I know for a fact that I was not blocked even once:

I jailed Alex, he does not confirm, he claims Vanilla. I jail Robin next, he confirms. If I lie, Robin lies too. Emmett confirms me with Robin, but if I lied, he lies too. Which means if I lie, two people lies instantly as well. That would be three liars now. But also this way Alex is either Vanilla/Passive Role and can confirm nothing just as he says so or lies too, because with any PR could've been already said I did not jail him. Now we are lynching him for the first version, and if he is not a Vanilla, he is Godfather. But again, for a Godfather he was quite silent, also why just not claim something passive minor town role? If the second version is true and Me, Robin and Emmett are already lying and he is the 4th liar. Which is too much already. What comes of this?

That I am the only really confirmed PR who can block.

Vincent just asked a very interesting question. Why was I not blocked? How could he Why am I still alive? I think because of Jean, he was a much bigger danger. Also maybe the Scum just tried to monitor who am I going to jail too:

Here is Fred's PM to me:

On 4/15/2020 at 1:06 AM, Fred Dumont said:

I gave you a hard time, and Alex Howe didn't show up, but I'm gonna take a chance with you to get a town block started. I was asking who you targeted because I'm the town blocker and was unsuccessful last night. I targeted Peter Lyon. If you targeted me, that would make sense I was blocked, as I would think jailkeeper has more power over the normal blocker. If you are the jailkeeper, that means i was blocked by the scum, or someone redirected me, no?

Right now, I'm thinking of blocking Ware or Laurent.

On 4/15/2020 at 1:21 AM, Daniel Lucas said:

On 4/15/2020 at 1:06 AM, Fred Dumont said:

If you targeted me, that would make sense I was blocked, as I would think jailkeeper has more power over the normal blocker. 

I don't think it matters, even as a simple blocker I could have blocked you I think. It is only interesting when we block each other, I'm not sure you get the protection that case. Anyways, I've targeted Alex for real. If you and Alex were swapped, that'll make his implicit Vanilla claim an interesting case tomorrow.

I was honestly thinking of jailing you next, until you wrote.

On 4/15/2020 at 1:29 AM, Fred Dumont said:

His vanilla claim just screams wrong to me. Maybe because I expect Bob to have everyone with roles.

On 4/15/2020 at 1:39 AM, Daniel Lucas said:

Me too. I expect Alex getting some heat because of this. Also for real, do you want to get jailed? At least you'll be protected.

On 4/15/2020 at 3:43 AM, Fred Dumont said:

That's so self serving. Do I want to live? Yeah. But I'd rather have it where both of us are out there. 

On 4/15/2020 at 9:07 AM, Daniel Lucas said:

Fair enough. But it is just a matter ot thinking about the trade offs. If I die, you'd be free to block. If not and you're the kill target you stay alive at least. And if we're both ignored, there is a higher chance we can block the killer. We now just have to consider intuitively the odds.

On 4/15/2020 at 4:36 PM, Fred Dumont said:

True.

On 4/16/2020 at 3:20 AM, Daniel Lucas said:

I can go to jail Ware or Laurent, but best if we coordinate which one.

On 4/16/2020 at 3:40 AM, Fred Dumont said:

How long have you been waiting? I know Bob said he had one last person he was waiting on. I went for Laurent.

On 4/16/2020 at 3:56 AM, Daniel Lucas said:

Yeah, did not know he is waiting for me, but he asked me to take the action just after I wrote you. Did not want to mix up with the same target of yours so I went to jail Robin.

On 4/16/2020 at 4:12 AM, Fred Dumont said:

Got it.

I did not want to spook him and even considered to believe him. But now it turns out he actually blocked the other claimed blocker, so only they can prove each other.

Also: 

Quote

If you targeted me, that would make sense I was blocked, as I would think jailkeeper has more power over the normal blocker.

"If you targeted me"...Why would I had targeted you? I said I jailed Alex. Even left an acronym message to prove it later if someone would think I'm making it up in-game.

I told you Fred, saying you'll trust me just because Alex's confirmation sounds unreal. But Alex did not even confirm me! You voted me so easily and not even unvote, only to threw in a 9th on Joshua. But after that you magically start to trust me. And you PM me, ask about the game mechanics, ask about what would've happen if I block you, because jailer "overpowers" blocker (No, why would I overpower you when you was not blocking me? Did YOU want to block me?) and you instantly give two of your potential blocks in the first message. Why would you trust me like that?

I think you tried to monitor me. I think you tried to find out if I could neutralize you.

Vote: Fred Dumont

[Daniel Lucas]

Sorry, with Emmett and Vincent it is actually not true that one lying means the other one is lying as well. It still possible for one of them to lie without the other to know about it.

[Aiden Leon]

5 hours ago, Peter Lyon said:

I'll admit to being in a similar boat to Vincent in that I believe my role is better kept out of scum's knowledge.

I'll admit to this as well since it's true, and so Vincent won't potentialy get yeeted right off the bat since scum will now have several mystery roles to choose from and not just Vincent.

[Emmett Ware]

1 hour ago, Daniel Lucas said:

You can switch votes anytime you want, like this:

Uvote: Alex Howe

See? Now you are perfectly capable to decide which one is more scummy in your opinion. Alex or Justin.

Funny, you still seem to be defending Justin. Think I'll see this one out and keep my vote right where it is. I'm not fond of game mechanics based votes, and that is most of what goes against Alex at this time. Inactivity, sure, but now that he's active, he's sounding fairly reasonable. 

1 hour ago, Daniel Lucas said:

That I am the only really confirmed PR who can block.

You were doing so well until this. You are not confirmed to be a blocker in any way, just someone who can target others. For all I know, you could have been protecting Robin without stopping them from performing an action, like killing. How's that for a nice alibi? Someone had to kill Jean and with all these actions floating around, it's pretty likely it was someone claiming to be something else already.

1 hour ago, Daniel Lucas said:

Sorry, with Emmett and Vincent it is actually not true that one lying means the other one is lying as well. It still possible for one of them to lie without the other to know about it.

I only know he didn't target anyone. He could have been obstructed in some way, or he could be the godfather or some other passive role.

I will put this offer out there: If someone feels strongly about a potential tracking target, don't say it here, but feel free to PM me the second the day ends and I'll consider it. I have some ideas already, but am open to suggestion.

One more thing ... Daniel, your conversation with Fred, if it's accurate, it pretty suspicious on his part. Why does it seem like you've waited until the day is nearing an end before you started putting out potentially useful information? Why has Alex waited until the end to do the same? Frustrating.

[Vincent Denis]

1 hour ago, Daniel Lucas said:

I think you tried to monitor me. I think you tried to find out if I could neutralize you.

Vote: Fred Dumont

*Fwom fwom*

If you think Fred is scum and Alex isn't, it makes sense to change your vote. But we're lynching Alex currently. That's odd that you're putting him below the threshold for lynching. Fred's in your pocket, you're coordinating together. If you really believe this we can lynch him tomorrow. Are we trying to work together as a town unit, all of us, or not? Unlyching Alex now is bizarre. Fred has pinged many of us several times. Do you think there's time to switch to Fred? If it's role madness, we had three blockers in Pirates II, are we ready to lynch a blocker claim?

*Fwom fwom fwom fwom*

[Vincent Denis]

47 minutes ago, Emmett Ware said:

One more thing ... Daniel, your conversation with Fred, if it's accurate, it pretty suspicious on his part. Why does it seem like you've waited until the day is nearing an end before you started putting out potentially useful information? Why has Alex waited until the end to do the same? Frustrating.

^^ This. Think we can get it back to Justin before the day ends?

*Fwom*

[Emmett Ware]

11 minutes ago, Vincent Denis said:

^^ This. Think we can get it back to Justin before the day ends?

*Fwom*

Doesn't seem likely, which means I'm wasting my vote by staying here, but I really don't feel good about Alex, despite how suspicious I've been of him, or more specifically the vanilla/rolemadness conflict. 

There is still time.

[Justin Reynaud]

I'm going to continue with the thought that Daniel, Vincent, Fabien, and Peter are town. I'm unsure of Trenton and Aiden. And of course I'm town. If that's true then 3 things seem possible, though not all 3 can be (unless we have an insane amount of Scum). I'm putting this here as much for my reference as for everyone else's as it's all been said already.

1. Emmett and Robin are scum based on their potential lies.

2. Fred and Andrew are scum based on them "blocking" each other to cover for their scum team.

3. Alex is scum based on his Vanilla claim.

I think we need to lynch 1 of these 5 people to make headway towards finding all the scum. Alex has the most votes currently, but I think any of the others would be well worth our effort today.

[Vincent Denis]

Just now, Emmett Ware said:

Doesn't seem likely, which means I'm wasting my vote by staying here, but I really don't feel good about Alex, despite how suspicious I've been of him, or more specifically the vanilla/rolemadness conflict. 

There is still time.

*Fwom fwom fwom fwom*

Serious discussion that needs to happen but may set off a powder keg but if we need to figure this out, this is the time to have it:

What if Daniel has been purposely creating chaos and confusion to throw the town off track? Without adding too much of my personal opinion on his behavior to start the conversation, I'd like to leave the question that simple. What do people think?

While I'm at it, Emmett, what about Alex makes you confident enough not to switch your vote to him? Also, 15 hours isn't enough to agree on a new target?

Frus. tra. ting.

*Fwoooooooooooooooooooom Fwooooooooooooooooooooooooom*

Just now, Justin Reynaud said:

I'm going to continue with the thought that Daniel, Vincent, Fabien, and Peter are town. I'm unsure of Trenton and Aiden. And of course I'm town. If that's true then 3 things seem possible, though not all 3 can be (unless we have an insane amount of Scum). I'm putting this here as much for my reference as for everyone else's as it's all been said already.

1. Emmett and Robin are scum based on their potential lies.

2. Fred and Andrew are scum based on them "blocking" each other to cover for their scum team.

3. Alex is scum based on his Vanilla claim.

I think we need to lynch 1 of these 5 people to make headway towards finding all the scum. Alex has the most votes currently, but I think any of the others would be well worth our effort today.

*fwom fwom fwom*

Imma set my hatchet down and really look into this. Justin, you ping the shit out of me, if I'm wrong I apologize. I will re-assess by looking at everyone's behavior, but your assessment here is a perspective I haven't thought of, so I need to open my mind to it. I'm a bit lost on Emmett and Robin's potential lies, though? Can you clarify that? A lot has happened, can you be explicit about these, please? Thanks, in advance.

*Fwom fwom fwomma fwom fwom fwom fwom fwomma fwom fwom forty six & 2.*

[Fred Dumont]

4 hours ago, Alex Howe said:

"I've just always wanted a lynch" doesn't sound like particularly townie reasoning when you are always the second vote on what are probably bandwagons against town players.  You certainly weren't in early wanting a lynch of Joshua, were you?

Not particularly challenging, no.  How is pretending to block someone on your own team a challenge?  You'd be at risk of being tracked, certainly, but yesterday why would a tracker have any reason to target you in particular?  I'd say it was a pretty safe move to attempt to cement you both as town by validating each other.  Just mighty convenient that you happened to block each other and it happened to be you, and not Daniel, that blocked Andrew last night, that is my point.  Your voting pattern does not assist you either.

Probably bandwagons on townplayers? Guffaw. Can we say "guffaw" or is that not good since it's just laughing? I always assume in the first two days/nights quieter and scummier people are targeted overall. And I was not pretending.

2 hours ago, Daniel Lucas said:

You can switch votes anytime you want, like this:

Uvote: Alex Howe

See? Now you are perfectly capable to decide which one is more scummy in your opinion. Alex or Justin.

For you Alex: I f*uckin' hate that you've just found your voice now that we wagoned on you. Clearly you had just the same opportunity to speak through the whole game. Also you actually started to make sense.

As I've said before, I can't accept that there is a 4th blocker. I also pointed out that Andrew blocked Fred and Fred blocked Andrew back. And this is untouchable, unless both of them lies. No one else claimed blocker. Emmett and Vincent confirmed only each other. If some of them lies, both lies and Vincent was not blocked, Emmett is probably no Tracker. Fred and Andrew confirmed each other, if some of them lies, both lies. One of them still can be a blocker, which would explain this shady 4th block on Vincent.

I know for a fact that I'm town jailer. And I know for a fact that I was not blocked even once:

I jailed Alex, he does not confirm, he claims Vanilla. I jail Robin next, he confirms. If I lie, Robin lies too. Emmett confirms me with Robin, but if I lied, he lies too. Which means if I lie, two people lies instantly as well. That would be three liars now. But also this way Alex is either Vanilla/Passive Role and can confirm nothing just as he says so or lies too, because with any PR could've been already said I did not jail him. Now we are lynching him for the first version, and if he is not a Vanilla, he is Godfather. But again, for a Godfather he was quite silent, also why just not claim something passive minor town role? If the second version is true and Me, Robin and Emmett are already lying and he is the 4th liar. Which is too much already. What comes of this?

That I am the only really confirmed PR who can block.

Vincent just asked a very interesting question. Why was I not blocked? How could he Why am I still alive? I think because of Jean, he was a much bigger danger. Also maybe the Scum just tried to monitor who am I going to jail too:

Here is Fred's PM to me:

I did not want to spook him and even considered to believe him. But now it turns out he actually blocked the other claimed blocker, so only they can prove each other.

Also: 

"If you targeted me"...Why would I had targeted you? I said I jailed Alex. Even left an acronym message to prove it later if someone would think I'm making it up in-game.

I told you Fred, saying you'll trust me just because Alex's confirmation sounds unreal. But Alex did not even confirm me! You voted me so easily and not even unvote, only to threw in a 9th on Joshua. But after that you magically start to trust me. And you PM me, ask about the game mechanics, ask about what would've happen if I block you, because jailer "overpowers" blocker (No, why would I overpower you when you was not blocking me? Did YOU want to block me?) and you instantly give two of your potential blocks in the first message. Why would you trust me like that?

I think you tried to monitor me. I think you tried to find out if I could neutralize you.

Vote: Fred Dumont

I will say thank you for quoting everything in full and correctly, so nobody needs to ask for image proof. Yet I am sad you would vote for me, Mr. Lucas, after what I just don't see as a scum message from me to you. And no, I did not try to monitor you. I did try to level with you. If I survive this day, I think I will be on the chopping block. But if anyone does, I will provide evidence I was not in contact with anyone.

27 minutes ago, Vincent Denis said:

If you think Fred is scum and Alex isn't, it makes sense to change your vote. But we're lynching Alex currently. That's odd that you're putting him below the threshold for lynching. Fred's in your pocket, you're coordinating together. If you really believe this we can lynch him tomorrow. Are we trying to work together as a town unit, all of us, or not? Unlyching Alex now is bizarre. Fred has pinged many of us several times. Do you think there's time to switch to Fred? If it's role madness, we had three blockers in Pirates II, are we ready to lynch a blocker claim?

And yeah, haven't I pinged people? I guess? I don't think I'll survive the night but whatever.

Sorry I'm really drunk right now.

[Vincent Denis]

12 minutes ago, Fred Dumont said:

Sorry I'm really drunk right now.

*Fwom fwom fwom fwom*

Me too. Totally understandable. Just as agitated by this. My initial pings on you have subsided, although I've suggested twice you could be the scum blocker. I don't feel I'm at a point where I feel a strong enough ping to vote for you. The turn of events is fascinating. At least there's plenty of time for us to concentrate on everyone's contributions. Being drunk, I'm not sure I can focus right now, but I'll try.

*Fwom fwom fwomma fwomma fwom fwom fwom fwom*

[Andrew Laurent]

10 hours ago, Vincent Denis said:

If Daniel publicly claimed blocker, why would the scum not block him? I suppose they ran the risk of being caught by a watcher. Or their blocker contacted him to coordinate. Alex will say I'm "setting up a lynch" of a blocker. I'm not. I'm inviting scrutiny of some of these claims. Alex is right about one thing, even if he is scum, we should still be scrutinizing claims as the rest of the scum would've been prepared for this. Perhaps their coordination was hindered by the no-PM rule. We are also hindered by it as some of us can't be explicit about our roles in public. I find myself in the dangerous territory of only scrutinizing the role claims. I need to go back and look at everyone's behavior to try to get a full picture.

I'm sure the scum are hindered by the no-PM rule, which is why I think scrutinizing claims is critical. It's why I'm staying on my Alex vote at this time - I find merit in the theory that he was an unprepared scum, possibly a godfather, and claimed poorly. If we're wrong, we're at least not losing a PR. 

And I've seen all the suggestions that Fred and I coordinated our blocking. We did not. I have had NO PM interactions with him. In fact, the only PMs I've had this game was Justin reaching out to me night 1 and saying he hoped saying almost the same thing as me didn't get us in trouble (which seems odd... since he doesn't know my alignment, unless he is scum) and asking if I thought we had another role madness. I said I bet we did. And remember, that was N1 so we didn't have all these claims flying around already. 

As for tonight - I am ABSOLUTELY open to coordinating our blocking activities to try and both verify our claims and stop scum kills. 

[Justin Reynaud]

48 minutes ago, Vincent Denis said:

Imma set my hatchet down and really look into this. Justin, you ping the shit out of me, if I'm wrong I apologize. I will re-assess by looking at everyone's behavior, but your assessment here is a perspective I haven't thought of, so I need to open my mind to it. I'm a bit lost on Emmett and Robin's potential lies, though? Can you clarify that? A lot has happened, can you be explicit about these, please? Thanks, in advance.

I'll give it a go, though it's not going to be exhaustive by any means.

First, Robin. His possible lies revolve around his Knight claim:

On 4/17/2020 at 10:04 PM, Robin Tremblay said:

My protecting ability is limited and I don’t want to waste it. I didn’t target anyone on N1. On N2 i wanted to protect Vincent because I didn’t trust you, and since you and Vincent argued a lot yesterday I thought he would be targeted.

Again, my vote on you was because you were annoying and creating a toxic environment, which is something that benefits scum. After you claimed it seemed plausible that you were town, but I still didn’t trust you. So why would I want to reach out to you? You didn’t reach out to me either. Your behavior D1, D2 was insane. Based on what I know now, I would describe you as Chaotic Town.

He claims he took no action on N1. And here is where he claimed he "wanted" to protect you, Vincent. But as far as I could find, he never said it was unsuccessful. 

On 4/17/2020 at 10:30 PM, Daniel Lucas said:

O-kay.

I can only tell you this. No I do not want to spread chaos. I was doing reads very actively and harhsly, just as I did on Pirates II. I had a good read there on Paul, maybe I'm totally off now. I did not want to get personal with anybody until I've felt they start to get personal with me on the other hand only because of in-game mafia accusations I've made. When someone gets a bit personal that is just feeding my hunch. Also I took Joshua as town and his vote on me triggered me quite hard. I've apologized for that many times now. Clearly it was not a lazy vote but a calculated wagon building from a scum.

I did not reach out to you, because you was lurking. You did not say too much, you made a soft detective-claim, saying you did not see anything at N1. I jailed you because I thought you are going to be targeted because of that. Also was curious if we'd get a kill by blocking you as well. We did, which means you are not the scum killer at least.

One more question: why would Vincent be targeted? You said you wanted to protect him because you did not trust me. Do you think I'd call him scum all day, PM him at night, call him scum again all day and when he is not getting lynched I get him killed? If I would be scum and I would know Vincent is going to flip town, would I really go after him this hard? Either you are not thinking this through or you are giving me a theory that does not add up. 

Also what was your plan now with your claim? It is obvious we can't risk lynching you, which would be a totally safe zone for a scum act now.

Who is fishing for claims? That is simply not true Fabien. Asking the lurkers to contribute is not the same to ask them to do a totally unnecessary town claim. This "fishing" idea is getting really redundant and tiresome. I myself ask for contribution. I think Robin's claim is just totally bonkers and I just don't see him surviving this unless it is a scum act we won't be able to figure out anytime soon.

Daniel reminded me of his "soft detective claim" after N1. But he just admitted to taking no action on N1. Which was it? And for N2, he waited till after Daniel told us he blocked Robin on N2 to explain he wanted to protect you. If Daniel is telling the truth then it seems Robin must be lying.

 

Second, Emmett. Daniel has been riding Emmetts case today, so I'm going to quote 2 of his attacks. Best would be to go back to the original quote to look at Emmett's words too. I didn't want to paste it all here since this is already a long post. But here are 2 time Daniel pointed out possible lies from Emmett:

On 4/17/2020 at 11:44 PM, Daniel Lucas said:

I'm reluctant to belive you on this. You just said your take was the same as Robin's. True. But you say you don't know anything about Trentont. But here is you referencing my quote on them:

You meant Robin's and Trenton's "Daniel is unhelpful" vote by this. You also clearly voiced you are less bothered by their lurking. Now you seem to be bothered by their lurking. And you voiced the same it isn't helpful vote.

I am still kind of dominating a chat. So nothing really changed. This means the only reason lurking was not a problem is to give a reason vote on me. This was instantly followed by the Joshua vote. Now Joshua was not leading as a lynch candidate, good for him.

But I claimed jailer. Joshua, the scum, is dead. Now their lurking is instanlty voiced by you and now you don't even seem to remember who Trenton is.

Sorry guys, I now I flipped back from Justin. Yes. I don't have any read on him. Go lynch him, let him speak for himself, but this one I can't ignore.

Vote. Emmett Ware

 

On 4/18/2020 at 7:30 PM, Daniel Lucas said:

This was never denied. Not our roles are the potential lies but our actual alignment.

Wait, what?? 

Andrew blocked Fred N1. Fred confirmed this. I jailed Alex. It means either you targeted Remi or you were blocked too. That'd be a 4th blocker. Fred's and Andrew's action were confirmed twice, because N2 Fred blocked Andrew back. They can't lie about it unless both of them is scum. No one else claimed blocker. I can lie about jailing Alex. But why would I not knowing his answer? Only if Alex is my scum buddy, but why would he not confirm me this way?

Unless:

You just targeted a deflector, like a muthafuckin' Ninja scum or you and Alex were swapped and I jailed you. But this would suggest a bus driver. Who did you target?

Why are you two, Emmett and Vincent just not sharing information, only conveniently reassuring each other? Emmett said he tracked me, but that is an obviously easy claim. It was already known. Even if I am scum I can't lie about jailing Robin, since I need to stay consistent. This makes it safe for Emmett to confirm me. From this information there is nothing that would tell us you are not playing together.

Also who did you target N2 Vincent?

And then there is Emmett's comment:

On 4/18/2020 at 4:46 PM, Emmett Ware said:

I suppose that brings us to the subject I had tried to avoid, my role. Given that I don't think it's major enough to really attract the scum to kill me, I am the town tracker.

I tracked you on night 2, you targeted Robin, and on day 2 Robin came in asking if they had been blocked and eventually you said you had. Since that would have been an elaborate setup for the scum to try to pull, I thought you were probably being honest and at least vaguely confirmed as town. With so many forms of blocker now, I'm less convinced, at least one of those is probably scum, but that's still impossible to determine.

*day 3. You'll figure it out.

Like Robin, he also waited till after Daniel said he blocked Robin before revealing his "action." Easy enough to lie about, and if Daniel's points have any validity then it means Emmett is lying.

[Bob]

Vote Count:
Justin Reynaud - 2 (Fabien Bellamy, Emmett Ware)
Alex Howe - 6 (Robin Tremblay, Fred Dumont, Andrew Laurent, Justin Reynaud, Vincent Denis, Peter Lyon)
Fred Dumont - 2 (Alex Howe, Daniel Lucas)

With 12 players, a majority of 7 is required. A bit less than 14 hours remains in this day.

[Justin Reynaud]

Ninja'd by Andrew.

3 minutes ago, Andrew Laurent said:

I'm sure the scum are hindered by the no-PM rule, which is why I think scrutinizing claims is critical. It's why I'm staying on my Alex vote at this time - I find merit in the theory that he was an unprepared scum, possibly a godfather, and claimed poorly. If we're wrong, we're at least not losing a PR. 

And I've seen all the suggestions that Fred and I coordinated our blocking. We did not. I have had NO PM interactions with him. In fact, the only PMs I've had this game was Justin reaching out to me night 1 and saying he hoped saying almost the same thing as me didn't get us in trouble (which seems odd... since he doesn't know my alignment, unless he is scum) and asking if I thought we had another role madness. I said I bet we did. And remember, that was N1 so we didn't have all these claims flying around already. 

As for tonight - I am ABSOLUTELY open to coordinating our blocking activities to try and both verify our claims and stop scum kills. 

I reached out to you to get a scum read. Obviously neither one of us wanted to give away too much since it was N1. 

[Emmett Ware]

1 hour ago, Vincent Denis said:

What if Daniel has been purposely creating chaos and confusion to throw the town off track? Without adding too much of my personal opinion on his behavior to start the conversation, I'd like to leave the question that simple. What do people think?

While I'm at it, Emmett, what about Alex makes you confident enough not to switch your vote to him? Also, 15 hours isn't enough to agree on a new target?

Frus. tra. ting.

I've said Daniel was disrupting the town from the start, intentionally or not. I've said it so many times, I'm even sick of hearing it now. Sick of living it, too.

Alex doesn't instill confidence, but the wavering on the vanilla/rolemadness situation makes my suspicion of him less justified. He's clearly been inactive, but he's said things that made sense in his few posts and it's been enough to make me hesitate. As it is, I'll be around for 10 more hours on and off and will cast the final vote if it is needed. If he turns out scum, I'll still be attacked for voting so late, and if he's town, I'll be attacked for casting the deciding vote, so one way or the other, I get fucked and I didn't even get dinner first.

1 hour ago, Justin Reynaud said:

1. Emmett and Robin are scum based on their potential lies.

2. Fred and Andrew are scum based on them "blocking" each other to cover for their scum team.

3. Alex is scum based on his Vanilla claim.

1. I have reported what I saw. I don't see how you can make this statement and assume Daniel is innocent, since he could easily be lying about the reason he targeted Robin. Is it a coincidence that he claimed to be the only 'confirmed' blocker when nothing has confirmed that at all? Is it a coincidence that he unvoted Alex to try to push me to unvote you and move over to that position? It's the second time he's seemed to defend you for no apparent reason. 

3. Basing a lynch on uncertain game mechanics is sloppy, isn't it?

5 minutes ago, Justin Reynaud said:

Like Robin, he also waited till after Daniel said he blocked Robin before revealing his "action." Easy enough to lie about, and if Daniel's points have any validity then it means Emmett is lying.

Daniel is annoyed that I've called him out as unhelpful and that I voted for him once. While I could be lying about my role, it would be easy to lie about anything in this game. Clearly, people have lied along the way and some of those might not even be malicious but to protect the town. Any point you want to argue could be called a lie with minimal effort. If I had revealed my role first, Robin or Daniel could have lied and used that to appear more trustworthy. I waited, hoping to catch someone in a lie or to confirm their honesty, which was the best thing I could do for the town. It's funny how I keep being attacked for it, but as I said, tracker isn't that helpful, I'm only told one tiny little bit of information without any way to determine what it completely means.

Sorry if I missed replying to anything, I had a huge post in progress and lost it when the page reloaded due to clicking a notification. I don't know what I lost and too much was said afterwards for me to try to figure it out.

I see something I missed. Yes, Vincent, it's frustrating. This whole game can be summarized by one word and that's it. Or some other F word. As for 15 hours, I can't see us forming a consensus and switching in that time.

[Daniel Lucas]

2 hours ago, Emmett Ware said:

Funny, you still seem to be defending Justin. Think I'll see this one out and keep my vote right where it is. I'm not fond of game mechanics based votes, and that is most of what goes against Alex at this time. Inactivity, sure, but now that he's active, he's sounding fairly reasonable. 

How am I defending Justin by unvoting Alex? What are you saying, we are lynching a Town? I just gave you the choice after you seemed to be so convenient not to switch becaue, "oh, Alex already got enough".

You complained we don't pay enough attention for your observation on Alex. But you just watched all the bandwagon. Now there it is, you can choose.

3 hours ago, Emmett Ware said:

You were doing so well until this. You are not confirmed to be a blocker in any way, just someone who can target others. For all I know, you could have been protecting Robin without stopping them from performing an action, like killing. How's that for a nice alibi? Someone had to kill Jean and with all these actions floating around, it's pretty likely it was someone claiming to be something else already.

"You were doing so well!" HAH! That's not how I remember you talking about me before.

Also did you just skipped while actually reading?

If I'm lying about the block, Robin lies too. It means I could have lied about Alex. Who also could have lied about being a Vanilla. You said you just saw me take the action on him. Now you say I was giving him Night Action protection? :D But how could I lie about jailing Alex this way, before knowing what his answer will be? Did I protect him as well? Why would he not confirm my block in this case as I said and claim some totally easy passive Town role this way?

If I lie, Robin, Me and Alex are all scum, what are you not following? But you just said I'm defending Justin. The 5th scum? I was doing well, thank you very much. You did not however.