Fabien Bellamy Posted April 18, 2020 Posted April 18, 2020 I thought I would examine Joshua's contributions to this game. Day 1: On 4/5/2020 at 9:22 PM, Joshua Levitt said: Hey everyone, I'm here. Been battling sickness, I don't think it's the plague, thank goodness. I'm seeing more than one person already pushing for a no-lynch and that's very troubling to me. As some have ready pointed out, it is extremely important and I worry about the motives behind anyone pushing for a no-lynch so early in the investigation. On 4/7/2020 at 12:02 PM, Joshua Levitt said: Looking back, it was Fred Dumont and Emmett Ware. Nobody particularly troubling because of this, just the idea of saying there should be a no-lynch is troubling. (Can't make up his mind, they're not suspicious but their ideas are... Was he trying to protect one of them or cast suspicion on them?) That being said, day 1 is hard. I mean just look at the votes, they are all over the place! I find Fabien's behavior or coming in and telling people to give opinions or continue arguing - but never giving opinions of his own - very suspicious. (I suppose I should be glad that he suspected me? WIFOM.) The Daniel/Vincent argument fest is dangerous. If they are both town, then scum are probably eating popcorn and watching the show. if one of them really is scum then he is is definitely putting up a fight. My problem after reading the whole thing is that they are both being mean, both making sense, and both seem just as plausible as town or scum. In my experience that means both are town, but sometimes it could mean one is a Godfather and will investigate as town so good to get out there and look super active. Aiden Leon - posting 3 times in a row an hour or so apart each time is very strange. Can't you get all your thoughts together and just post once? After all those posts, still no opinion on where to cast a vote?Not worth killing someone over, but strange nonetheless. (Weak attempt at casting suspicion on Aiden. Would he have done this for a scum-chum?) At the ristk of splitting the vote even more, i'll vote for Fabien. There's a lot of time left, I hope some more folks will come in and give opinions on what's going on rather than just sit back and watch. Vote: Fabien Thank you. The meds are helping, I'm at 75% healthiness now and climbing I think the clock has stopped That's it for Day 1. He didn't push for a lynch, even though Town couldn't make up their mind. Day 2: On 4/11/2020 at 10:20 PM, Joshua Levitt said: Oh wow, the arguing died down a little. I can finally see through the fog around here. There are two reasons I haven't been around today. One is the arguing, it put me off posting and it's hard to keep up with. If this wasn't an "anonymous" game, people would know that I can't stand that sort of yelling and back and forth walls of text. It gives me headaches, so I try to block from it as best I can. I've been trying to keep up with things that aren't screaming at each other so that I can help, but it seems the screaming has caused more than just myself to stay way today. Secondly, I had a fishing tournament to deal with and that was on set start/end times that was not a 96 hour day I never said that, don't use quotes when you aren't actually quoting. I said that I was worried about people talking about non-lynch. Never said anyone was pushing for a no-lynch. Anyway, it was a no-lynch in the end and everyone ended up having a hand in it, between single votes and no votes. (Contradicts himself there.) I'm not going to answer for some lousy player's weird reasoning or wording when voting. Not everyone here speaks native English and that can be part of this sort of failed understanding too. I don't know what his motives are, but I really don't appreciate being targeted due to something someone else said. I really doubt Daniel and Vincent are both scum but I suppose it could be possible. Unprecedented interaction on day 1 and day 2, but possible nonetheless. Having to weigh my options, I see Vincent as more likely town here. Either way, you are really bringing the whole game down and a major cause for confusion and silence from multiple people from what I can tell. It's really hard to see who else could be scum because there's so little other discussion going on. Vote: Daniel Lucas (This makes me feel that Daniel isn't in Joshua's team. I know, I'm very insightful.) On 4/13/2020 at 2:29 PM, Joshua Levitt said: I am town and I'm not attempting to fly under the radar. It's really annoying that i'm being judged by what somebody else is saying/doing. There's simply no defense against it. I don't know why he worded things the way he did, some people are just bad at communication. I'm definitely one of those people that has a hard time getting my point across, my mind is constantly going in a million directions and my fingers aren't quite as quick I'd definitely never use lying about headaches as an excuse to not post, and I'll keelhaul anyone who does - it's a serious situation. I try to keep my heartrate low when I can, including not getting too worked up in/by mafia anymore, it helps. You yourself mention that Daniel shouldn't be considering everyone find suspicious as being town, but your doing the same thing by harping on people from the list of who he finds less likely to be scum. Now that you've shifted everything based on his sudden roleclaim, it's to just get a bandwagon going on the next highest vote count in the list. I don't really think it has anything to do with me at all and is more just wanting to get a lynch and grabbing the easiest bandwagon name on the list since I already had a few votes against me. If someone else had 3 or 4 votes already, it'd be them. What's the point in even lynching quiet people? That's what the scum likes because it gives zero information to the town the next day. Why else would they kill the quietest people at night? It's a lot safer to start bandwagons and do night kills on quiet townies than people that have put forth any actual evidence or hypothesis against any of them (or anyone else for that matter) which would risk confirmation upon death. Sorry, my mistake. I really didn't mean that they were pushing, but apparently I did say it. On 4/13/2020 at 3:08 PM, Joshua Levitt said: I don't typically go back and reread things I posted, I always assume I know what i said. Obviously I'm an idiot sometimes and make mistakes like anyone else. I'm not trying to hide the fact that i was wrong there, it is what it is. thank you I don't understand at all where the fight started other than he thinks we are all idiots and need to learn mafia. You generally feel pretty straightforward to me, maybe he got some intell over the night that he hasn't shared - but if it was truly damning I would hope he would have found some way to share. Since he hasn't, I'm guessing it's just talking in circles like he's been doing for two gamedays already. I don't have any particular feels yet, perhaps you're right and I have let the arguments cloud my comprehension and judgements of everyone else. Daniel sucks the fun out of this, but that doesn't mean I should hand the game over the scum by being lazy. I will go back through and ignore all walls of text this time. Good idea, I'll take a look at Andrew specifically. I really should use the feature more and not try to read everything start to finish every time I try to read it. On 4/13/2020 at 4:14 PM, Joshua Levitt said: Aiden - appears to be massively defending Vincent throughout the day and possibly back to day 1, but why? what proof could he have the vincent is town that would cause him to go on the attack for his fellow? Also, noticed that he quotes but edits the quote majorly before commenting? Case in point below - which wouldn't quote correctly so I am attaching the image instead. Daniel - I've only before seen scum be so brash, harsh, and vulgar. Town usually will try to actually help and be a little patient, not calling everyone idiots and braindead. Unrelenting attacks and impossible to follow accusations. In addition to all that he makes the whole thing unpleasant, as many have already pointed out. Who says this kind of nonsense? "Obviously they know something" is very suspicious to me. Andrew - He does seem convinced that the biggest talkers are town yet still willing to lynch any of them, that's what I'm seeing. He words things very strangely too, especially saying that it's alright to lose a few folks. I don't agree, i feel that we need all the help we can get to fight and verify and weed out the scum. Every death is just that much closer to a loss of all we hold dear. Robin - Has made 10 posts but has said nothing. Didn't reply to questions from Daniel (though who can blame him) but did say he would remove his vote and as of yet has failed to do so or to mention why he hasn't. Justin - Seems clueless but harmless. Poke votes are pretty stupid and even @ing people in an anonymous game since they aren't going to get a notification on their main account. I'm not lurking around on this account just not replying, I'm either here or not here. Maybe it is different for others though, i can't speak to that. It's my belief that there should be at least one Scum in this list. It's Mafia Law. It would be weird for him to analyse only Town players without trying to plug in one of his own. I don't think Daniel is that one. We have Aiden, Joshua has valid concerns about him. Then Andrew, a weaker case there. Robin: a weak case also. Justin: harmless. That pings me. On 4/13/2020 at 4:56 PM, Joshua Levitt said: I am paying attention. you are getting defensive of Daniel and have been other times as well, and flat out believing his claim fully with no proof of anything? You say I'm not paying attention but I am. What makes you so sure this guy is town then? Waiting for his godfather role to turn up a town investigation so he can be cleared? On 4/14/2020 at 12:39 PM, Joshua Levitt said: That person was quiet because of dropping out not because of being scum, the replacement was not quiet or flying under the radar. Flying under the radar is a tactic that doesn't work, attacking people who are supposedly flying under the radar is also a lazy tactic that doesn't work. Even in the last pirates game you yourself accused me of flying under the the radar and being scum, I wasn't then or now. When people get confused by all the arguing they just randomly choose a quiet person and throw undefendable accusations on them. It's lazy and irresponsible and will lead to a scum win. Now that there's a successful bandwagon on me, everyone stopped fighting. How interesting that is! How telling that the most rude people are suddenly not rude at all now that an innocent person is going to be killed. I have no great Revelations, nasty words, or accusations to spew out in my last moments. Good luck recovering from not only this mistake but the mindset that led up to it. On 4/14/2020 at 1:08 PM, Joshua Levitt said: You quoted the whole thing to ask a question I answered over 24 hours ago? See, this is the laziness I am talking about. I already went through the whole day and out together my thoughts on the most suspicious people in response to Vincent asking the xact same thing. Of course he didn't even reply to that and the arguments started again instantly to bury my words. I really have nothing else to say. There, glad to help! 9 minutes ago, Vincent Denis said: *Fwom fwomma fwom fwom* If you dig through all of his words, he suspected Alex and Aiden all day as he saw Alex as defending me. I think his choice makes sense if he was suspicious of all three of us and we were all three scum, the quietest one would likely be the one chosen to perform the night kill. Thanks, but I would have liked to hear it from Daniel. Oh yeah? Why's that? "Shouldn't we be lynching Alex?" Is that an opinion or just testing the waters? If you think we should lynch Alex, switch your vote. Are you not confident in your case against Justin anymore?
Daniel Lucas Posted April 18, 2020 Posted April 18, 2020 16 minutes ago, Vincent Denis said: If you dig through all of his words, he suspected Alex and Aiden all day as he saw Alex as defending me. I think his choice makes sense if he was suspicious of all three of us and we were all three scum, the quietest one would likely be the one chosen to perform the night kill. Exactly this. Only it wasn't him.
Fabien Bellamy Posted April 18, 2020 Posted April 18, 2020 Just now, Daniel Lucas said: Exactly this. Only it wasn't him. Unless he's a Strongman. Same goes for Robin.
Alex Howe Posted April 18, 2020 Posted April 18, 2020 Regrettably I can't say much to dissuade you from voting for me if you think I am lying about being vanilla based purely on metagaming from the format of a previous game, but do at least consider why I would make such a claim if it were not true, given the obvious risks. Why would I clarify a vanilla claim if I were scum trying to lie in what otherwise appears to be a role madness game? After all the warnings earlier today and the plentiful opportunities given to enable me to claim a passive role, if I were scum I would definitely have done so. Don't worry, I am just as confused as the rest of you right now as given that nobody else seems willing to admit to being vanilla, I do not understand how I could be the only person here without a role. Possibly Governor Broadside is attempting to test us all regarding the traps of metagaming! With metagaming in mind, the scum team will obviously be prepared with role claims so why would I, if I am scum, claim vanilla? The scum team will definitely have discussed this already so if I were scum I would be well informed not to claim vanilla, it is far too risky. Plus, very easy to be caught out as scum with a vanilla claim. If I were scum, I would probably have claimed my real role as a town role. On the rules point, I didn't quote my letter from Governor Broadside, I merely said I checked to make sure I used the correct word for my role, as for any other role claim, and I am sure Governor Broadside would have stepped in if what I said was not acceptable. If I were to claim blocker or knight or "vanilaizer" or whatever other role, naturally it would be implied that I am using the word that was in my enlistment letter. Obviously take it how you want to, but there was discussion of whether I was claiming no role or a passive role and I clarified that my role is vanilla. I could be lying about that, sure, but will lynching me for claiming vanilla actually clarify anything for anyone when I flip town tomorrow? Doubtful. Given that I know my own claim is true, I feel we should be scrutinising the role claims a bit more intensely. The scum are hiding somewhere, either behind a fake role or claiming their real scum role and pretending to be town. For example, it is within the realm of probability that there is a scum blocker, but I would somewhat doubt that there are three town blocker-type roles as well (i.e. four plus blockers in a group of 16), especially with only one kill per night so far and no kills blocked apparently. There don't seem to be multiple killers around to be blocked unless the town vigilant has already been killed (or perhaps there is a limited use town killer role, I suppose). And what do three "minor role" claims and two "role" claims suggest? Obviously not all of these people can be town. Lastly, the people that are willing to go after me are very interesting. Emmett and Vincent have raised concerns, without pushing for a vote. Robin started a vote, swiftly followed by Fred, exactly the same as they did when voting against Daniel yesterday. I find Fred's voting pattern concerning. He is quick to jump on Daniel yesterday, he is quick to jump on me today, but he did not jump on Justin today and he was the last vote on Joshua yesterday after all was said and done. Coincidence? Fabien's summary above is helpful in respect of Joshua's post. I agree with you Fabien, there is likely a scum player in that list of players that Joshua analysed. There could be more than one. Very interesting that Justin and Robin are there.
Vincent Denis Posted April 18, 2020 Posted April 18, 2020 Just now, Fabien Bellamy said: "Shouldn't we be lynching Alex?" Is that an opinion or just testing the waters? If you think we should lynch Alex, switch your vote. Are you not confident in your case against Justin anymore? *Fwom fwom fwom fwomma fwomma fwom fwom* Gotcha. I have been incredibly busy. I have stated that I'm not confident in lynching Justin. How could I be unless I had information and I do not? As far as not switching my vote to Alex when I suggested it, I want to start communicating with everyone about what the best path forward for the town is. It's easy for the scum to hitch onto any wagon and plop a vote and a vague reason and then run. There also seem to be three potential courses of action and I don't want the votes split three ways. I'd like to switch my vote as I think it's the best course for the town to test Alex's claim. I put time into my vote posts and I've been exhausted and swamped cleaning that crow out of my tuba. *Fwom fwom fwomma fwomma fwomma fwom fwom fwom fwom fwom*
Alex Howe Posted April 18, 2020 Posted April 18, 2020 Just now, Vincent Denis said: *Fwom fwom fwom fwomma fwomma fwom fwom* Gotcha. I have been incredibly busy. I have stated that I'm not confident in lynching Justin. How could I be unless I had information and I do not? As far as not switching my vote to Alex when I suggested it, I want to start communicating with everyone about what the best path forward for the town is. It's easy for the scum to hitch onto any wagon and plop a vote and a vague reason and then run. There also seem to be three potential courses of action and I don't want the votes split three ways. I'd like to switch my vote as I think it's the best course for the town to test Alex's claim. I put time into my vote posts and I've been exhausted and swamped cleaning that crow out of my tuba. *Fwom fwom fwomma fwomma fwomma fwom fwom fwom fwom fwom* Can you clarify how testing my claim will assist the town? What clarity does it provide should I flip town tomorrow? Sure if I flipped scum that would be helpful, but I don't see the added benefit of testing my claim even if I flip town, can you explain?
Daniel Lucas Posted April 18, 2020 Posted April 18, 2020 8 minutes ago, Justin Reynaud said: This is a very succinct summary. And I can totally see why you want to vote for me. I am a townie who happened to vote in an unfortunate pattern. But I get that that's not enough to convince anyone. If I were in your shoes I'd be voting for me too. I don't like this one too much from you, Justin. You are trying to agree too much or you are trying to hard to seemingly understand another perspective. I myself would never vote for you because of this one and I think you shouldn't either. I don't see how your poke vote + last vote on a later to be revealed scum would instantly suggest you are the other scum. I mean it is perfectly possible, but it is just forcing a narrative into something, which already needs you as a scum for basis. I think everyone's actions who voted on Joshua could be cherrypicked only by their votes on him. 13 minutes ago, Justin Reynaud said: Emmett has an interesting track record. He did not vote on Day1 and was the 7th (right before mine) vote on Day 2 for Joshua. If he is scum and is just trying to bandwagon me, his voting pattern could fit. But I don't know if it's enough to lynch him at this point. I think Robin is much scummier now and I think attention is better placed on him. You again missed something. Emmett has a vote on me, he took it just before Joshua took the last one one me too. Also did not unvote me until it was clear the heat went over to Joshua again, so I think he wanted to help Joshua until it was clear we are going to lynch him. At that point no need to "protect him anymore". This is my theory anyway. Again this is all based on that someone from Robin, Fred, Trenton and Emmett had to be a scum buddy of Joshua. I see you are voting for Robin. I may understand that, Robin's arguments are off. I'm just not sure we can truly risk to lynch a claimed protector. But more pressure on him is nice. Also Emmett's comment on Trenton was totally off, because he contributed the same as Robin until the end of D2. This does not mean I don't want to hear Trenton's opinion now. He went under again.
Fabien Bellamy Posted April 18, 2020 Posted April 18, 2020 Just now, Vincent Denis said: I put time into my vote posts and I've been exhausted and swamped cleaning that crow out of my tuba. Try a crowbar.
Emmett Ware Posted April 18, 2020 Posted April 18, 2020 2 minutes ago, Daniel Lucas said: Also Emmett's comment on Trenton was totally off, because he contributed the same as Robin until the end of D2. You can keep repeating that until the end of time, but it's the truth, Trenton didn't stand out enough, in their few posts, for me to even know who that was. Peter is the same way, if you need another example. Now please take some time to dig up every vague way in which you believe I should have been aware of them and post it because clearly we're all supposed to observe and remember things in the exact way you do. Some of us don't have time to obsess over every word here. I remember someone who used to do that to the point that they had gone out to dinner and were still monitoring things by phone, much to the detriment of their mental health. I really hope they've put those times behind them, for their own sake. 10 minutes ago, Fabien Bellamy said: Try a crowbar. *groan*
Daniel Lucas Posted April 18, 2020 Posted April 18, 2020 22 minutes ago, Fabien Bellamy said: Unless he's a Strongman. Same goes for Robin. But Robin already made a protector claim. There is no need to include a protector in the game if the killer is a strongman as well. Of course we would need to believe Robin for this. Just now, Emmett Ware said: You can keep repeating that until the end of time, but it's the truth, Trenton didn't stand out enough, in their few posts, for me to even know who that was. Peter is the same way, if you need another example. Now please take some time to dig up every vague way in which you believe I should have been aware of them and post it because clearly we're all supposed to observe and remember things in the exact way you do. Some of us don't have time to obsess over every word here. I remember someone who used to do that to the point that they had gone out to dinner and were still monitoring things by phone, much to the detriment of their mental health. I really hope they've put those times behind them, for their own sake. Half of this text is totally redundant. You should be aware of the very players who play this game, yes. This is a lazy excuse, not to mention you was voting for me for the same reason, thus tilting the balance on me, in favor of Joshua. Which Joshua followed just as quickly. And again, you were hesitant to unvote me because of my claim. You threw in quickly a Jester idea, only to justify your vote on me. A vote you was not even verbose about, explaining whether I am scum or the town needed to be policy-lynched. Just as everybody before you. If I'd flip town you would just all defended yourself as policy lynchers. Your whole behavior just helped Joshua to avoid the firing squad until it was ineviteble. THEN, when it became clear, you finally unvoted me to vote on him. I don't see this as a vague reason, it is pretty serious. I'm very confident the scum wanted to help him in some way and yours is the most noticeable. But again, there is Robin with his first lackluster vote. There is Trenton parroting that. There is Fred, claiming conveniently roleblocker and he flipped all his votes without serious reason but only for wagoning, he did not unvote me as well, only implied on a false assumption that he'd believe me if Alex confirms. Also the whole "Daniel is unhelpful" phrase was used by Aiden D1 who did not vote for it D2, but kept busting my balls. Only he jumped on Joshua instead of me, which was clearly a nail in his coffin. And there is you again, who was said I'm his main suspect even at the end of D2. I'd be very delighted to hear you making some stand why am I still not the one. Am I not, because you just wanted to sound consistent right after we lynched Joshua, but now you clearly don't see any use in it now?
Fabien Bellamy Posted April 18, 2020 Posted April 18, 2020 I just had a worrying thought. With so many blockers (or pretend blockers) around, if the Scum killer was to skip a night, they would confuse the hell out of us.
Daniel Lucas Posted April 18, 2020 Posted April 18, 2020 Just now, Fabien Bellamy said: I just had a worrying thought. With so many blockers (or pretend blockers) around, if the Scum killer was to skip a night, they would confuse the hell out of us. Are you giving ideas to the scum now? Or do you want to sound like the oracle who foretold that? Also how would the killer know they are not getting the block anyway, bringing the suspicion on them?
Emmett Ware Posted April 18, 2020 Posted April 18, 2020 17 minutes ago, Daniel Lucas said: Half of this text is totally redundant. You should be aware of the very players who play this game, yes. Of all the people who shouldn't chastise others for redundancy... Yes, I should be aware of the players and I normally would be, but the walls of text in the first 2 days made that difficult at best. You griped at Vincent for roleplaying a line at the beginning and end of his posts while making massive and usually pointless posts yourself. That is exactly what I meant by not helping. Have you noticed that no one has contradicted that point except you? Is everyone scum out to get you? Think about it. 17 minutes ago, Daniel Lucas said: THEN, when it became clear, you finally unvoted me to vote on him. I don't see this as a vague reason, it is pretty serious. I'm very confident the scum wanted to help him in some way and yours is the most noticeable. When I knew the day could end without a lynch and saw an opportunity to switch my vote to someone I also suspected, I did what was best for the town. Jean's enthusiasm for voting for Joshua convinced me more than anything, he was so insistent that I assumed he either knew something or was taking a huge risk of being lynched the next day. The more you harp on my vote, the more it sounds like you would have preferred not lynching Joshua. I don't see any way in which I helped him at all, except a quick escort off this planet by firing squad. By your logic, your voting for me is just a way to try to help Justin, so if he is lynched and turns up scum, we should be after you next? 19 minutes ago, Daniel Lucas said: And there is you again, who was said I'm his main suspect even at the end of D2. I'd be very delighted to hear you making some stand why am I still not the one. Am I not, because you just wanted to sound consistent right after we lynched Joshua, but now you clearly don't see any use in it now? I still suspect you (hell, I still suspect EVERYONE), but my night results gave me at least a small reason to doubt that suspicion, so I backed off. I suppose that brings us to the subject I had tried to avoid, my role. Given that I don't think it's major enough to really attract the scum to kill me, I am the town tracker. I tracked you on night 2, you targeted Robin, and on day 2 Robin came in asking if they had been blocked and eventually you said you had. Since that would have been an elaborate setup for the scum to try to pull, I thought you were probably being honest and at least vaguely confirmed as town. With so many forms of blocker now, I'm less convinced, at least one of those is probably scum, but that's still impossible to determine. *day 3. You'll figure it out.
Fabien Bellamy Posted April 18, 2020 Posted April 18, 2020 4 minutes ago, Daniel Lucas said: Are you giving ideas to the scum now? Or do you want to sound like the oracle who foretold that? Also how would the killer know they are not getting the block anyway, bringing the suspicion on them? The killer might get blocked, but what are the chances? It also could be three Townies, automatically gaining considerable suspicion. Especially if there's a Scum blocker among the claims, and they can pretend to target whoever they choose. I'm mentioning it, because I want Scum to consider it. Spare a Townie life, confuse us for a Day. I dare them to do it.
Daniel Lucas Posted April 18, 2020 Posted April 18, 2020 Just now, Emmett Ware said: The more you harp on my vote, the more it sounds like you would have preferred not lynching Joshua. I don't see any way in which I helped him at all, except a quick escort off this planet by firing squad. By your logic, your voting for me is just a way to try to help Justin, so if he is lynched and turns up scum, we should be after you next? I don't see myself defending him. Every time I felt something off about him I voiced that. As I said I unvoted him because the whole case felt weak. There is nothing more to the story with Justin and me. 2 minutes ago, Emmett Ware said: I suppose that brings us to the subject I had tried to avoid, my role. Given that I don't think it's major enough to really attract the scum to kill me, I am the town tracker. I tracked you on night 2, you targeted Robin, and on day 2 Robin came in asking if they had been blocked and eventually you said you had. Since that would have been an elaborate setup for the scum to try to pull, I thought you were probably being honest and at least vaguely confirmed as town. You just told me no one voiced concerns except me, and you claim like you'd get a serious pressure all the same. It suggests you do understand that my perspective was truly not that weak. Honestly you saying that sounded a bit scummy, I mean the talk about claiming when the time comes. Anyway I'm glad you helped me out without that. Also: Who did you track N1? Clearly you are going for Justin at the moment and you voiced suspicions about Alex's claim. But do you agree with my theory about a possible scum within the voters on me? Or you think we should discard that idea. That's fine too, but that would only mean you think the scum are on the other side, who did not vote for me. And for the record: me being honest about jailing Robin is still not something to be taken as granted. But you did point that out too, I give you that. Unvote: Emmett Ware
Emmett Ware Posted April 18, 2020 Posted April 18, 2020 Just now, Daniel Lucas said: Who did you track N1? Vincent. The constant posts from the two of you definitely triggered my night 1 and 2 choices. I am not going to say what the result was for Vincent, I'd rather he share that if he feels so inclined. Just now, Daniel Lucas said: But do you agree with my theory about a possible scum within the voters on me? Or you think we should discard that idea. That's fine too, but that would only mean you think the scum are on the other side, who did not vote for me. Possible, sure, but I'm not sure that several scum would vote early and put themselves in a position of being associated with each other in such close proximity. Clearly can't discard any theory, but I don't think it's a particularly strong one. Don't take this the wrong way, but if I was scum, I would have left both you and Vincent alive to continue your fighting, just for the disruption it would do to the days. Assuming neither of you is scum. Neutrals throw the equation off, but that's probably personal bias as I've had bad experiences with them in the past.
Vincent Denis Posted April 18, 2020 Posted April 18, 2020 11 minutes ago, Emmett Ware said: Vincent. The constant posts from the two of you definitely triggered my night 1 and 2 choices. *Fwom fwom fwom fwom* I didn't target anyone successfully on N1. *Fwom fwom fwom fwomma fwom fwom fwom fwomma*
Emmett Ware Posted April 18, 2020 Posted April 18, 2020 Just now, Vincent Denis said: I didn't target anyone successfully on N1. That does make sense, thank you.
Aiden Leon Posted April 18, 2020 Posted April 18, 2020 2 hours ago, Justin Reynaud said: I'd be lying if I claimed anything but relief that there is some attention being drawn away from me. But I hope my jumping back into the fray helps convince some of you that I am indeed town. Seriously though that sounds so scummy wtf?
Vincent Denis Posted April 18, 2020 Posted April 18, 2020 2 hours ago, Alex Howe said: Lastly, the people that are willing to go after me are very interesting. Emmett and Vincent have raised concerns, without pushing for a vote. Robin started a vote, swiftly followed by Fred, exactly the same as they did when voting against Daniel yesterday. I find Fred's voting pattern concerning. He is quick to jump on Daniel yesterday, he is quick to jump on me today, but he did not jump on Justin today and he was the last vote on Joshua yesterday after all was said and done. Coincidence? *Fwom fwomma fwomma fwom* Ah, something useful has been said. I agree with your assessment on why someone in this situation would claim vanilla, if they were scum. I believe I asked the same questions earlier. At the same time your response seemed forced and your inactivity was suspicious. Most of the posts you've made haven't had much by way of analysis. There is a big assumption we are making that it is role madness. Lynching you would provide us an answer, while-if you're town-wouldn't lose us a night action. That may seem crass, but it's true. However, in Pirates II where it was role madness, we had three blockers, a protector and a bus driver. Again, this would be making assumptions. That's why a great way to test these blocker claims is by lynching you. If you're telling the truth then one of these blockers is likely lying. Probably the first person I voted for in this game. Señor Vanillliazser. *Fwom fwom fwomma fwomma fwomma fwom fwom fwom fwom fwom fwom*
Daniel Lucas Posted April 18, 2020 Posted April 18, 2020 12 minutes ago, Emmett Ware said: Don't take this the wrong way, but if I was scum, I would have left both you and Vincent alive to continue your fighting, just for the disruption it would do to the days. That is plausible, however votes were piling on Joshua in the meantime all the same. This is why I've reminded you guys, that he had already 2 votes by the time I got the first on me. But if what you say is true, it is also information and a scenario we should think about: Joshua may have been left alone to defend himself and he only wanted to save himself by quickly voting for me too, seeing the opportunity after your 4th vote. At this moment everything seems fine for the Scum. Joshua the scum buddy got some heat but Daniel has more. Now what would the Scum have done in this situation? Let it play out and hope Daniel will be thrown under the bus? I claimed instantly after Joshua's vote so putting more votes on me would've been risky. Let's see the final votecount again: On 4/14/2020 at 11:59 PM, Bob said: Joshua Levitt - 9 (Jean Pelley, Andrew Laurent, Vincent Denis, Aiden Leon, Peter Lyon, Daniel Lucas, Emmett Ware, Justin Reynaud, Fred Dumont)Daniel Lucas - 1 (Joshua Levitt) Jean was the first, he had some intel I think. Andrew was kind of poked into voting for Joshua. No danger for a scum to vote this early for another scum, also he wanted to show his neutralitiy towards him. Hard to tell. Vincent copied Jean's reason imho. Aiden votes, saying he is still interested in the Andrew-Joshua link. A bit of parroting Jean."I don't see any disadvantages, I just don't see the advantages." Peter comes in in the middle of our fight with Aiden and Vincent. He points out the vote on Joshua is stalling and he wants more momentum on it. The climax of the heated Daniel-Vincent-Jean fight, we apologize and Jean quickly asks me again to vote on Joshua. I say I think Joshua is town but I go with it. Unvote Vincent, vote Joshua. Emmett unvotes Daniel, votes Joshua, saying he has no better alternatives. Not that it matter at this point. Justin unvotes Vincent, saying lynching is extremely helpful. This stinks a bit, because Vincent was not even close being lynched. Fred unvotes Daniel, votes Joshua, "since we need a lync". Quite straightforward, the guy does not give a shite, just lets lynch. Still a redundant vote. Trenton unvoted Daniel around point 3, Robin unvotes Daniel after point 5, they do not vote on Joshua. Alex and Fabien are under the radar, not voting for Joshua. The question is again, what would the scum have done if not already voting on me and seeing Joshua - the scummo - take the lead? My analysis: Andrew can be scum trying to prove himself very early. While openly being in agreement with me and unvoting Joshua at the end would have seemed suspicious. He claims blocker with an alias Vanillaiser. Sounds true, but meh. Vincent and Aiden had thousands of opportunities to vote one me. Still they were sure of my alignment while still busting my balls. If I'm right about them playing together, they could've sacrifice Joshua in a safe position. Far-fetched or a master plan. Peter's reason as scum would have been the same, to paint himself Town. A risky play for scum, I had 4 votes too. Could have tried to push on me, maybe not, I was claimed jailer. If I'm scum, Joshua voted on me to save himself for the cost of an other scum. Why not helping my case against Aiden or Vincent instead and build a wagon on someone who is not us? Far-fetched and needs a lot of twisty coordination but plausible. (Also not true). I voiced my theory about Emmett being the scum. He claimed, and there is no information yet which would prove him wrong. But Tracker can be Scum too. Justin can easily be a scum hammering it, realizing it is already lost. Fred is late with a redundant vote. A bit weak play to do as a scum at this point, also he claimed and was consistent about it. But Roleblocker can be Scum too. No words from Fabien, his last comment was about the Daniel-Vincent debate getting out of control. Trenton, Robin, Alex nothing. All three of them voted for me. Almost too obvious scum positions. Almost.
Daniel Lucas Posted April 18, 2020 Posted April 18, 2020 /* Sorry, Alex did not vote on me. It was Fred, but he voted on Joshua.
Peter Lyon Posted April 18, 2020 Posted April 18, 2020 2 hours ago, Daniel Lucas said: But Robin already made a protector claim. There is no need to include a protector in the game if the killer is a strongman as well. Of course we would need to believe Robin for this. Unless the host is merely trying to give the illusion of power. Not every role has to have a function. If the killer is a strongman, we have much bigger problems. 2 hours ago, Daniel Lucas said: But again, there is Robin with his first lackluster vote. There is Trenton parroting that. There is Fred, claiming conveniently roleblocker and he flipped all his votes without serious reason but only for wagoning Fred came to you in the night to claim his role and you coordinated actions. At this point, it seems that those were carried out, so there's no reason to think that he doesn't have the action. That's true for both your and Andrew's blocking claims. Everything appears to check out as far as the targets are concerned. 1 hour ago, Fabien Bellamy said: I just had a worrying thought. With so many blockers (or pretend blockers) around, if the Scum killer was to skip a night, they would confuse the hell out of us. I don't see how this would be helpful unless they knew who was going to be blocked. We've got three claimed blockers and a claimed protector. That's 4 possible ways to prevent a scum kill. Scum probably can't risk it. Justin, my vote for you is because of the day 1 and 2 voting patterns. As for Alex... I'd rather still vote for Justin at this point. One thing I will say about Alex, I think it's nonsense to say that him claiming his role explicitly stated he was vanilla is a violation of the rules. If so, you can argue that anyone stating their role publicly is violating quoting the host. I just don't think that's the point of that rule. Conversely, you could say that the lack of a punishment would indicate he's lying. That would seem to break the game, IMO.
Alex Howe Posted April 19, 2020 Posted April 19, 2020 1 hour ago, Vincent Denis said: *Fwom fwomma fwomma fwom* Ah, something useful has been said. I agree with your assessment on why someone in this situation would claim vanilla, if they were scum. I believe I asked the same questions earlier. At the same time your response seemed forced and your inactivity was suspicious. Most of the posts you've made haven't had much by way of analysis. There is a big assumption we are making that it is role madness. Lynching you would provide us an answer, while-if you're town-wouldn't lose us a night action. That may seem crass, but it's true. However, in Pirates II where it was role madness, we had three blockers, a protector and a bus driver. Again, this would be making assumptions. That's why a great way to test these blocker claims is by lynching you. If you're telling the truth then one of these blockers is likely lying. Probably the first person I voted for in this game. Señor Vanillliazser. *Fwom fwom fwomma fwomma fwomma fwom fwom fwom fwom fwom fwom* While that is one way of viewing it, a more cynical person might suspect that you are setting things up to more easily lynch a blocker tomorrow once I flip town. I don't see the massive benefit of confirming whether this is role madness or not; regardless, one of the blockers can still be scum. When I flip town, you will assume one is lying because it is not role madness. If I were to flip scum, that doesn't mean they aren't lying though. I think the two points are mutually exclusive. So while I have no problem with being lynched if there is a clear benefit to the town, I don't see confirming role madness or not as beneficial. You are welcome to make a case for it though, so perhaps you can forecast outcomes for: (a) I flip town and it is not role madness; or (b) I flip scum and it is confirmed as role madness. The outcome of options (a) and (b) do not really have any impact on whether one of the blockers is lying, as a scum blocker would still claim to be a town blocker. There is also still the possibility that they are indeed all town, that isn't off the table. I don't see the connection between my role and proving anything against them, it is a weak benefit if anything at all. It is a lot of assumptions to make based on the structure of a previous game, I would prefer to focus on what is going on in this one.
Bob Posted April 19, 2020 Author Posted April 19, 2020 Vote Count: Justin Reynaud - 4 (Vincent Denis, Fabien Bellamy, Emmett Ware, Peter Lyon) Alex Howe - 2 (Robin Tremblay, Fred Dumont, Robin Tremblay - 1 (Justin Reynaud) A bit less than 39 hours remains in this day.
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