Pirates Mafia III - Day Three

[Vincent Denis]

*Fwom fwomma fwom fwom*

2 minutes ago, Andrew Laurent said:

Also found this gem while I was going through day 2 to get all my Jean quotes. Vincent, both yesterday and today you are warning us away from reading into Alex's vanilla claim. This feels way way off - but I don't think you'd be a bad enough scum player to defend him so blatantly. Obviously you know something you haven't shared, and that's fine, but you both do understand how this looks, right? I mean, in Pirates 2 there were no vanillas, so what's your point? 

Ninja'd again! Quit that Vincent! Is that really the only reason you're warning us in BOLD not to lynch Alex over a vanilla claim? Because someone got lynched for that last game so you expect the scum to have claims planned? 

52 minutes ago, Vincent Denis said:

*Fwom fwomma fwomma fwom*

I think it's best that we are careful about discussing if we think it's role madness. If it's not, then anyone with a power role has left themselves out in public as targets for the scum. It's an easy tell for Alex's alignment if this is role madness, but that's a big risk at the same time.

*Fwomma fwomma fwom fwom fwomma fwomma fwom fwom*

It's not a gem if you can find it twice in five minutes. Yes, you've caught me. I bolded my scummy defense of Alex. Ooops. I guess I'm a forum inbred jerk, after all.

If this wasn't role madness, then everybody who agreed is basically wearing a sign that says "I have a power role, scum! Kill me!" Imagine three people agreed it was role madness, then five other players were like "I'm vanilla townie." I could draw you a diagram if it will help you understand my reasoning. Or a play! I could write you a play. Just ask.

Someone who was really smart in the last game, I think it was Ethan Dunn, made a similar warning and he was town. I think he was right to make that warning. I'd imagine if he were playing this game, he would make it again. 

*Fwom fwom fwom fwom fwom fwom fwom fwom fwom fwomma fwomma fwomma fwomma fwom fwom fwom*

[Andrew Laurent]

Ok, yeah, I get the point of your warning. I think after Pirates 2 and how bob pretty much said he was rebooting for P3, we all came in assuming role madness, so that made your warning feel off. 

[Robin Tremblay]

17 minutes ago, Vincent Denis said:

So we have three blocking actions? That would be consistent with Pirates II. We had a blocker, jailkeeper and "commuter" which was also used in opposition to how it's defined on Mafiascum. Also, it didn't protect the target from all actions the way a commuter actually would. Three blocking roles scan if Bob used the same setup.

Possibly, i also have a small role and was unsuccessful last night. So who did Daniel jail last night?

[Fred Dumont]

2 hours ago, Vincent Denis said:

*Fwom fwomma fwomma fwom*

I think it's best that we are careful about discussing if we think it's role madness. If it's not, then anyone with a power role has left themselves out in public as targets for the scum. It's an easy tell for Alex's alignment if this is role madness, but that's a big risk at the same time.

Only reason Ii think it's role madness is because it's Bob and last time was.

2 hours ago, Andrew Laurent said:

Well... this complicates things although it all lines up well. I am a town vanilaizer. Sort of - I was confused enough by the role I had to have the host clarify some things at the start. The mafiascum wiki says that vanilaizers are typically scum and permanently remove the target's ability. What I am is just a regular blocker. I prevent my target from using their ability for that one night. I don't know how bob is sorting out all the actions, but I will say night 1 I targeted Fred, which is why he was unsuccessful (he could have been jailkept or scum blocked TOO, but I only know for sure that I blocked him), and last night I was unsuccessful since he targeted me. Last night I tried to block Fabien since he's been so quiet he felt like a potential scum to me. 

And vincent, you don't want us discussing role madness? That's madness! Considering we have jailkeeper and dual blocker claims, not only do I suspect role madness, but I suspect a larger or more powerful scum team than normal. 

I just looked up the role and it's definitely not a blocker, at least not a normal one. Have we had this role before in past lives?

2 hours ago, Peter Lyon said:

I assume you threatened Daniel that you were going to share your conversation with us all first thing when the day breaks, and he told you to PM at least 5 people, but you didn't PM anyone, not even Aiden who we should all trust for no reason!  

Why does everyone immediately assume that if they share their role with scum, scum will kill them the same night?  I think that's likely true for certain roles, but not all of them.

I figured I'd be killed because I claimed blocker. If they knock me out, there's one less person to worry about that could go in another direction if they infiltrate the block and people get suspicious.

1 hour ago, Robin Tremblay said:

Possibly, i also have a small role and was unsuccessful last night. So who did Daniel jail last night?

He told me in PM he jailed you before the night ended.

[Justin Reynaud]

Wow. I'm so glad we got one! I found Joshua suspicious, but was worried he'd flip town. Jean dying is a tragedy for sure. Whatever his role was it certainly seemed to give him an edge that helped the town a lot.

With where we are right now 2 possibilities seem to be out there. 1st, Fred and Daniel are working together and playing a very risky scum game. Doesn't seem likely but their words and actions leave the door open for this. 2nd, Alex is scum and hid behind Vincent's text walls the first 2 days. Alex's vanilla claim is suspicious even if we aren't in role-madness. Both the past 2 pirate games have been role-madness. To claim vanilla at this point is just asking for it.

5 hours ago, Vincent Denis said:

This was the hammer. Reading it again, it seems less scummy than I remembered. Maybe just because it came from Justin and I think everything Justin says is scummy. The justification is what pings me. Did you not realize you were hammering? On the other hand, in favor of Justin, I don't see a scum hammering one of these words and being explicit about not thinking it's the right lynch. 

It was stupid of me, I know. But I did not count all the votes before placing mine on Joshua. So I did not realize I hammered him. I wanted to lynch him, but I know being the hammer can cast suspicion on said person. It is what it is at this point. I realize I did a suspicious thing, but I'm trying to be open and honest about it. 

3 hours ago, Vincent Denis said:

*Fwom fwomma fwomma fwom*

I think it's best that we are careful about discussing if we think it's role madness. If it's not, then anyone with a power role has left themselves out in public as targets for the scum. It's an easy tell for Alex's alignment if this is role madness, but that's a big risk at the same time.

I'll repeat what Jean said when I brought this up in private. Alex claimed he has no action. He might have a flavor or a passive action. So, Alex may be lying, Alex might have a passive action, or Alex is telling the truth and this is not role madness. 

I spoke to someone else via PM last night that had an uncanny ability to tell the future. They guessed that Jean had information and that's why he pushed for Joshua's lynch all day, even guessing that Joshua would flip scum. I have to say, right on, to this person. Well done. It pings me now that Jean is dead and Joshua flipped scum. I doubt scum would communicate their hand like that via PM, but WIFOM. This is my only ping on this person.

Andrew voiced something similar, though vaguely, "Jean obviously wanted Josh out." I'm not suggesting any course of action at this point, just putting that out there for discussion.

*Fwomma fwomma fwom fwom fwomma fwomma fwom fwom*

Jean PM'd me at the beginning of last night to point out that I hammered Joshua. Here is his PM:

On 4/14/2020 at 10:35 PM, Jean Pelley said:

8 votes to lynch and there you were, Mr. Number Eight...

What I mean is that I'm pretty confident Joshua will flip scum and I at least will look upon you kindly for hammering him. I already pointed out that if Joshua wanted to bamboozle us, he should have hammered himself and I suppose you could be his scum-chum taking the same tack (ha! boat puns).

Vincent and Aiden are obviously bosom buddies but I think they're metagaming each other rather than communing as masons but I was suprised how happy they were to lynch Joshua, which tends to make me look upon them favorably.

And Daniel? He's nuts.

Of course that all flips on its head if Joshua turns out to be town but he was so scummy he can't be... can he?

The whole interaction was pinging me hard, but now we know he was town and everything looks different. The way he is pushing for me to believe Joshua was scum now makes he take everything he's said a lot more seriously. I still need to go back and read days 1 and 2, but that's where I'm at now.

[Aiden Leon]

No not Jean!!!  MFers wanted revenge. Well f*ck you we're gonna tear you a new one for Jean!

[Vincent Denis]

*Fwoooooooom fwooooooooooom*

3 minutes ago, Justin Reynaud said:

I wanted to lynch him

On 4/14/2020 at 10:07 AM, Justin Reynaud said:

Joshua has pinged me a little, but not enough that I think it's the right thing to lynch him today.

Mm Hm...

3 minutes ago, Justin Reynaud said:

Jean PM'd me at the beginning of last night to point out that I hammered Joshua. Here is his PM:

He told me your response was basically, "Oh boy! I thought you were scum but I feel better about you now because scum would never send a PM like that." I responded that it seemed forced and he did not comment any further.

3 minutes ago, Justin Reynaud said:

 I wanted to lynch him, but I know being the hammer can cast suspicion on said person. It is what it is at this point. I realize I did a suspicious thing, but I'm trying to be open and honest about it. 

I guess time will tell...

2 hours ago, Andrew Laurent said:

Ok, yeah, I get the point of your warning. I think after Pirates 2 and how bob pretty much said he was rebooting for P3, we all came in assuming role madness, so that made your warning feel off. 

3 minutes ago, Justin Reynaud said:

With where we are right now 2 possibilities seem to be out there. 1st, Fred and Daniel are working together and playing a very risky scum game. Doesn't seem likely but their words and actions leave the door open for this. 2nd, Alex is scum and hid behind Vincent's text walls the first 2 days. Alex's vanilla claim is suspicious even if we aren't in role-madness. Both the past 2 pirate games have been role-madness. To claim vanilla at this point is just asking for it.

Mmmkay. So Justin and Andrew seem to be planting the subtle seeds for my lynching. Maybe I'm over-reacting (it's happened before) but they seem to be poking at me. Maybe it's because I'm constantly suspicious of them. If I were scum and wanted to push town towards a specific lynch, I'd be doing the same thing, I think. They know they have an ally in Daniel. The idea that my walls of texts are harder to read over than Daniel's I find ludicrous. Maybe they affect the readability of the threads the same way, but I've been consciously attempting to not throw books back at him. For Justin not to mention both of us in that case seems suspicious. Seems to me more like he's hiding behind Daniel's walls of texts–or both of ours–but hiding nonetheless.

Making assumptions about the game mechanics is metagaming, so I'll metagame right back at ya. I had a discussion with Bob after Pirates II about how I thought the setup favored the town. We discussed allowing PMs in games and came to the conclusion that it hurts the scum for town to have the ability to coordinate so closely. And he changed that rule. I also suggested that everybody having a role set the scum at a disadvantage too since it gave them no room to counterclaim or claim vanilla. Having this game start with one of the things we discussed being changed, I figured it was a good idea not to assume he would be using role madness again. I don't think it's ever safe to assume what a host may have done, setting the game mechanics, so caution is the best way forward. It's reckless to just barrel forward with assumptions. 

But, keep it up you two, from a townie perspective, it's fun to watch.

*Fwom fwom fwom fwom fwomma fwomma fwomma fwom fwom fwom fwom fwom fwoooooooom fwooooooooooom fwoooooooooooom*

[Daniel Lucas]

Joshua being scum is a bit horrible. But since I've told Jean I'll humble myself if this is the case, let's see: First it is horrible, because the reason for voting Joshua was obviously fabricated, or I'm totally blind. Well, I might be "nuts" but I do pay attention. This would instantly suggest Andrew as scum, because that was the starting point, Andrew not poke voting for his scum buddy. So either this is blatantly true and Andrew is the scum buddy or we lost an investigator or role cop with Jean. Considering how hard he pushed Joshua while constantly picking on me because of my suspicion of Vincent tells me, Jean really had the information. Also for the record, this should not suggest that I was not giving useful and honest observations. You can't expect us to jump on your actual information on a scum for some weak reasons and just because you're annoyed at everything else that is not instantly about your hidden information.

Anyway, Jean contacted me at night, and put emphasis on Vincent's quote, meaning that he thinks Bob tries "to fuck us" by not creating a role madness this time, while we expect it. Also pointed out, that Alex's claim is not automatically a Vanilla one, as Vincent and other have said, only not a PR. I answered maybe it is just a reflex because I thought of Vanilla too at first. Also I said to him I might jail Fred. He never responded.

Also Fred contacted me indeed and really claimed town blocker. I suggested jailing him to give protection if he wanted. He said it would be a bit self-serving, considering we'd have two blocks instead of none. That was a fair conclusion, so I said we should coordinate. He told me his potential blocks earlier, so I jailed someone else.

I've jailed Robin, successfully. I actually wanted to block but protect him as well, because he practically softclaimed as a PR in D2. I thought the scum may bite on this, because it easily could've been a "Shoot me" bait. I'm not sure, maybe Robin will finally tell us more except of me being unhelpful.

Justin contacted me as well. He said for what it's worth he thinks I'm Town. Also asked if I truly think Vincent is scum. Now this pinged me HARD, because obviously I voiced my opinion of Vincent being a scum all D2. Asking about this again felt some blank, buddy up talk, or maybe a hidden threat. 

So I've answered, (instead of throwing accusations and warnings around, duh)  it does not really matter now, because except Andrew, Joshua and him no one played like patient Town - not even me - and clearly the other's were not interested in voting for Vincent to find out. I thought this is going to ease him, in case my ping is right.

He now implicated that Fred and I could be working together as scum. That is interesting to say. If I am scum, why would another scum openly jump next to me with another and potential scum roleclaim, while I'm clearly not the most confirmed Town out here. Also any counterclaim for the same roles could give us some hard time as well. This door is seemingly open for Justin, I'm just not sure how does he plan to figure this out if true.

Also I don't know how all this fits into his PM for me. Either he was trying to get some scum read on me or tried to buddy up for a potential wagon on Vincent next day. Also he did not respond to my answer, but maybe now he'll clarify his intentions.

[Justin Reynaud]

57 minutes ago, Vincent Denis said:

*Fwoooooooom fwooooooooooom*

1 hour ago, Justin Reynaud said:

I wanted to lynch him

On 4/14/2020 at 10:07 AM, Justin Reynaud said:

Joshua has pinged me a little, but not enough that I think it's the right thing to lynch him today.

Mm Hm...

I wanted to lynch him, but I didn't think it was the "right" course of action because my gut was telling me he was town. Pick that apart if you want, but it's pretty straight forward.

56 minutes ago, Vincent Denis said:

He told me your response was basically, "Oh boy! I thought you were scum but I feel better about you now because scum would never send a PM like that." I responded that it seemed forced and he did not comment any further.

Yeah, I said that to him because I thought he was scum. I didn't want to give him reason to kill me in case he was scum so I insinuated he had earned my trust.

56 minutes ago, Vincent Denis said:

Mmmkay. So Justin and Andrew seem to be planting the subtle seeds for my lynching. Maybe I'm over-reacting (it's happened before) but they seem to be poking at me. Maybe it's because I'm constantly suspicious of them. If I were scum and wanted to push town towards a specific lynch, I'd be doing the same thing, I think. They know they have an ally in Daniel. The idea that my walls of texts are harder to read over than Daniel's I find ludicrous. Maybe they affect the readability of the threads the same way, but I've been consciously attempting to not throw books back at him. For Justin not to mention both of us in that case seems suspicious. Seems to me more like he's hiding behind Daniel's walls of texts–or both of ours–but hiding nonetheless.

Do you ping me as scum? Yeah, you still do. Was Jean right about Joshua? Yes. So is he right about you? Who knows, but it's enough to make me think twice. Daniel's wall texts are hard to read too. I've said before that I don't like either of you because of that tactic. You seem to be awfully defensive. I haven't been singling you out today yet you defend this hard? Yeah, still pinging me.

 

15 minutes ago, Daniel Lucas said:

Justin contacted me as well. He said for what it's worth he thinks I'm Town. Also asked if I truly think Vincent is scum. Now this pinged me HARD, because obviously I voiced my opinion of Vincent being a scum all D2. Asking about this again felt some blank, buddy up talk, or maybe a hidden threat. 

So I've answered, (instead of throwing accusations and warnings around, duh)  it does not really matter now, because except Andrew, Joshua and him no one played like patient Town - not even me - and clearly the other's were not interested in voting for Vincent to find out. I thought this is going to ease him, in case my ping is right.

He now implicated that Fred and I could be working together as scum. That is interesting to say. If I am scum, why would another scum openly jump next to me with another and potential scum roleclaim, while I'm clearly not the most confirmed Town out here. Also any counterclaim for the same roles could give us some hard time as well. This door is seemingly open for Justin, I'm just not sure how does he plan to figure this out if true.

Also I don't know how all this fits into his PM for me. Either he was trying to get some scum read on me or tried to buddy up for a potential wagon on Vincent next day. Also he did not respond to my answer, but maybe now he'll clarify his intentions.

If your role claim is true, then there is a chance you're going to get killed sooner rather than later. I PM'd you with the hope that you would feel like you had another person to share actions with. I know you have no reason to trust anyone, but in case I was coming across as trust worthy enough I wanted to give you an open door. And if you didn't want to share any info with me, my goal with the PM was to try to get any scum reads from you.

[Aiden Leon]

Okay so I'll join in as well and admit to having a role. 

Aleeeeex? Is there something you want to share with us? 

Andrew someone else pointed it out and I feel the same a little that your trying awful hard to be helpful. Wouldn't be anything bad about that if you weren't the other half of Jean's suspicion. 

Back to Alex though, did he claim flat out Vanilla? Can't remember will have to look back.

[Daniel Lucas]

Just now, Justin Reynaud said:

And if you didn't want to share any info with me, my goal with the PM was to try to get any scum reads from you.

Fair enough, my PM intention for Vincent was to get a scum read as well, and him being totally hostile - with the still suspicious warning - kept feeding my theory of him. Maybe it should have been the other way around, considering he is quite the emotional one this game.

But why did you not respond?

Just now, Aiden Leon said:

Back to Alex though, did he claim flat out Vanilla? Can't remember will have to look back.

He DID NOT. And Jean left me explicitly pointing this out to be remembered. Also, @Vincent Denis. You've said you got the same from Jean as well in PM, saying Alex still might have some passive role. But later some hours later you go again:

4 hours ago, Vincent Denis said:

I am super curious about Alex claiming vanilla when in the last game Paul got lynched for saying he was vanilla. I would imagine all the scum would be ready with roleclaims. 

You just pointed out Jean's message as well that Alex's claim was not explicitly Vanilla. Then why are you keep saying this? Paul explicitly said, "I'm a Vanilla Town", while Alex did not. I don't want to imply anything now Vincent, it just bugs me like hell. If you are town, just stay consistent, please. This is exactly why I was chasing you for all D1 and D2.

[Aiden Leon]

7 minutes ago, Daniel Lucas said:

He DID NOT. And Jean left me explicitly pointing this out to be remembered.

Right so it wasn't a vanilla claim, but that he didn't have a "action". Which would be a acurate description of a passive role imo.

On 4/14/2020 at 12:33 PM, Alex Howe said:

I was not informed that I was jailed, no.  I do not have any action though, so I don't think I would necessarily be informed?

 

Also as for Andrew and his claim which seemingly should be a scum role, the way I could see it being is that Bob made it such so there'd be a distinction and not two town blocker claims which could cause unfair confusion? 

 

[Emmett Ware]

Take this as you will, but I feel the need to clarify a point that keeps coming up. There was a time in EB mafia history when not having an action and vanilla were basically interchangeable. If I am reading who Alex probably is, he would think the same way. I used the term while talking to Vincent last night because of all the role madness talk and stated that I found the no action claim suspicious. He didn't explain his interaction with the host which may have lead to a change in that situation, so I continued to hold that suspicion until that time.

I'll add that I still find it suspicious, role madness or not. Oh, and role madness is a new concept to me as well, and probably to Alex, again assuming I am right about his identity, so that's actually a bit more damning in that he would have potentially made the claim without knowing of the previous games.

[Andrew Laurent]

2 hours ago, Vincent Denis said:

Mmmkay. So Justin and Andrew seem to be planting the subtle seeds for my lynching. Maybe I'm over-reacting (it's happened before) but they seem to be poking at me. Maybe it's because I'm constantly suspicious of them. If I were scum and wanted to push town towards a specific lynch, I'd be doing the same thing, I think. They know they have an ally in Daniel. The idea that my walls of texts are harder to read over than Daniel's I find ludicrous. Maybe they affect the readability of the threads the same way, but I've been consciously attempting to not throw books back at him. For Justin not to mention both of us in that case seems suspicious. Seems to me more like he's hiding behind Daniel's walls of texts–or both of ours–but hiding nonetheless.

Not at all. If you think back, I have repeatedly stated that I think you, Daniel, and Aiden are all town. Based on past experience, people fighting like the 3 of you are almost always all town. That's why I haven't voted for you and don't intend to unless something changes and gives me a solid reason to. Yesterday there was a decent wagon starting to form on Daniel, but I did not change because I don't want to lynch him. 

59 minutes ago, Aiden Leon said:

Andrew someone else pointed it out and I feel the same a little that your trying awful hard to be helpful. Wouldn't be anything bad about that if you weren't the other half of Jean's suspicion. 

Back to Alex though, did he claim flat out Vanilla? Can't remember will have to look back.

Oh, so being a productive, helpful townie (as opposed to screaming profanities at each other) is now a scum tell? 

And I haven't voted Alex because he has not actually claimed vanilla (I hope he's not actually vanilla, because such a claim would be basically suicide at this point). He could easily have a role like miller (but should have claimed that early on) or lover. Or for that matter, he could be a godfather.... that's technically no action, so he wouldn't want to claim an ability with no way to prove he used it or be watched and not see him go anywhere.... I can't see him being a jester since he hasn't tried to get lynched (unless it's a "get lynched after day x" variant). Could be a bomb... 

[Daniel Lucas]

Almost forgot. This was the vote count after I've role claimed. Trenton Monette voted for me as well, but he instantly unvoted after my claim, before Bob's new vote count, so I've flagged this in the quote. Emmett and Joshua jumped on after Trenton:

On 4/12/2020 at 4:30 PM, Bob said:

Vote Count:
Aiden Leon - 1 (Daniel Lucas)
Joshua Levitt - 3 (Jean Pelley, Andrew Laurent, Vincent Denis)
Daniel Lucas - 4(5) (Robin Tremblay, Fred Dumont, (Trenton), Emmett Ware, Joshua Levitt)
Vincent Denis - 1 (Justin Reynaud)

With 14 players, a majority of 8 is required. About 55 or so hours remain in this day.

It would be timely to make a vote analysis on this. I remember being triggered right after Joshua's vote. I totally suspected a couple of scum votes being on me already, but clearly not all of them could be Scum. Remember what Joshua said: 

On 4/12/2020 at 4:20 AM, Joshua Levitt said:

I really doubt Daniel and Vincent are both scum but I suppose it could be possible. Unprecedented interaction on day 1 and day 2, but possible nonetheless.  Having to weigh my options, I see Vincent as more likely town here. Either way, you are really bringing the whole game down and a major cause for confusion and silence from multiple people from what I can tell. It's really hard to see who else could be scum because there's so little other discussion going on.

Vote: Daniel Lucas

Now this is why I start to think Vincent might be actually Town. In my Town perspective, Joshua was clearly wagoning as a scum and had to know I am going to flip Town. And this would've brought heat on Vincent, which Joshua would've wanted to avoid if Vincent would be his scum buddy. Also he was parroting Fred, because this was Fred's narrative, one of us (Me&Vincent) being a scum.

I've told Fred he should not be convinced of my alignment, only because of Alex's potential confirmation, as I can be a scum roleblocker. I told him this in a very rude way, but it was true all the same. Emmett replied to this that I'm a Jester. Also he is being still suspicious of me at the end of D2.

But of what exactly, Emmett? Me being a Scum or a Jester? Because I've also pointed it out twice, why Jester is a weak tip after my claim, considering that I was already wagoned. Either you knew this already or you were making a forced suspicion. Also "no nead for debate". Last time I heard something like that was Paul's "context does not matter".

Robin and Trenton threw in the same "you are not helpful" phrase and you jumped on this conveniently.

I know Robin is not a killer, because I jailed him. Trenton was a bit fast to unvote me, but I think for a scum after my claim it would've been even more beneficial to keep pushing the lynch on me. Seeing Trenton as the scum here is plausible, but too much WIFOM. This leaves Emmett or Fred. Fred did roleclaim to me and his actions are kind of confirmed at the moment. Actually it doesn't mean he can't be a scum roleblocker, just as I've pointed this out about me before. We all should keep this possibility in mind.

The other lynch option was Joshua. Scum did not like that. Even after Jean kept pushin us on Joshua, Emmett did not swapped from me until the end when I've made a temporary peace with Jean and Vincent. At this point it was obvious we are going to lynch Joshua and not me. Emmett joined only now, being quickly the 7th voter, which is safely not the hammer. For the record, Justin was the hammerer and Fred was a redundant 9th vote.

On 4/14/2020 at 11:59 PM, Bob said:

Vote Count:
Joshua Levitt - 9 (Jean Pelley, Andrew Laurent, Vincent Denis, Aiden Leon, Peter Lyon, Daniel Lucas, Emmett Ware, Justin Reynaud, Fred Dumont)
Daniel Lucas - 1 (Joshua Levitt)

With 9 votes, Joshua Levitt has been lynched.

These three are all late voters on Joshua. Justin was not voting on me. Emmett and Fred were. Fred was talking about potentially unvoting me, but did not until it was clear I'm not going to be lynched. Fred's other potential block candidate was Emmett, but he went on Andrew. Since we know a couple of thinks of Fred which needs to be always consistent from now on, I'll go:

Vote: Emmett Ware

[Emmett Ware]

Just now, Daniel Lucas said:

Emmett and Joshua jumped on after Trenton:

I didn't jump on, I just knew that based on the time left in the day, if we were going to get a lynch, I needed to change my vote from you. I still suspected you more than Joshua and wasn't thrilled with the situation, but I was starting to feel like Jean was convinced enough to be trusted and took the chance.

Just now, Daniel Lucas said:

Emmett replied to this that I'm a Jester. Also he is being still suspicious of me at the end of D2.

For someone who has said so many things so poorly, you really like to pick on single points while not considering their larger meaning. Jester was an example of a potential third party with it's own win condition. I'm still not convinced that isn't the case and yes, I suspected you right to the end of the day. Something that happened in the night and that was confirmed today had reduced that suspicion a little, but I am not going to clarify that to someone who has seemed to fish so hard for information that shouldn't be stated in public.

Just now, Daniel Lucas said:

Also "no nead for debate". Last time I heard something like that was Paul's "context does not matter".

I don't know or care who Paul is. The phrase "no need for debate" (despite your odd misquote) means I was convinced. Nothing more, nothing less. Your example does not, in any way, mean the same thing. I'm trying to write that off as a poor understanding of the subtleties of the English language, but that might just be an easy crutch for you to throw suspicion at something perfectly innocent.

Your vote is silly. If you think we're going to have day 3 of the "I want to be the center of attention" Daniel show, you'll have to find another partner for that. Just as I said before, you haven't been helpful and you continue to not be helpful, but now I have just enough information to not be as certain of a vote for you, so I will wait.

[Daniel Lucas]

4 minutes ago, Emmett Ware said:

Your vote is silly. If you think we're going to have day 3 of the "I want to be the center of attention" Daniel show, you'll have to find another partner for that. Just as I said before, you haven't been helpful and you continue to not be helpful, but now I have just enough information to not be as certain of a vote for you, so I will wait.

I just made my conclusion of my vote analsys, it is that simple.

If I'm right I totally expect you to keep pushing this "Daniel is unhelpful agenda". If I'm wrong, you may try to help me out by stop pushing that, because it is unfair. It is not an exact argument to anything I say, and any counterargument I point out can be instantly labeled as more unhelpfulness. It is a closed argument loop.

Also Joshua just kept feeding this as well and he was scum. Also he was building a wagon. So it is confirmed scummy now to call me plain unhelpful without anything else to add.

Also, if you have some information, share. But talking about having information and not sharing is strange.

[Emmett Ware]

A completely egotistical concern for self and need for attention while ignoring valid points and questions and not actually accomplishing anything. Oh, and claiming to be an expert on everything. Is that you, Donald?

It's a shame, really. If someone hadn't influenced the game into not allowing PMs, there is a lot I would say privately that would be foolish to say in public. We're actually going to be done in by two different incarnations of Jesus, a reference that many of you will probably not get, sadly.

If it all comes down to it, I will announce my role and how I used it/results for each night as the day nears an end. I will not feed the scum before that, no matter how hard they push for it.

[Daniel Lucas]

Truly no need to get personal. This is what exactly induced the previous shitshows. I apologized to everybody yesterday, I don't see any reason to keep beating the dead horse.

My whole train of thought was based on that other Scum, at least one voted on me. Why? Because the other choice was Joshua and clearly the scum was in need to produce something else. Trenton unvoted after my claim instantly, while the Scum still was in need to not let people go after Joshua instead of me. There was clearly plenty of angle to keep the attention on me and I've noticed you gave us some.

This leaves a jailed Robin, you Emmett, Justin and a town roleblock claimer Fred. I'm not jumping on final decisions, these are just my conclusions from my perspecitve. For example, Robin unvoted me but not voted on Joshua. His vote on Michael and this would make him the most non-wifom scum ever, which would be so obvious maybe we do not even consider it enough. If you are Town Emmett, you can help me figure this out.

[Daniel Lucas]

*Edit: this leaves Robin, Emmett and Fred. Justin did not vote on me.

[Vincent Denis]

3 hours ago, Daniel Lucas said:

Also, @Vincent Denis. You've said you got the same from Jean as well in PM, saying Alex still might have some passive role. But later some hours later you go again:

*Fwoom fwoom*

My point is in favor of Alex being town. If he's scum, he should've been prepared to claim, like you clearly were. Yet, he didn't. This is a point that he is not scum, in that if we are mostly the same crew from the last game, he would know not to claim vanilla or "no action" if he were scum. If he's town and didn't want to reveal a role that would be inconsiderate to your claim, wouldn't it? The scum in the last game thought they'd win by coasting under the radar and not posting. Alex is barely posting, which is scummy, but could indicate he's actually busy. If the scum in the last game were caught for being inactive, the most suspicious to me are those being active by post count but not by content, like Justin.

Emmett is consistent in his suspicious of Daniel. He said the same to me last night and his reasoning is the same. This contrasts greatly to Justin, whose reads vary widely and seem convenient to circumstances.

Vote: Justin Reynauld 

because—let me count the ways:

1. Poke voting Joshua to seem active but not actually having a reason to do so. His reason was "to get everyone talking." How does a poke vote of one person get everyone talking. He's said he's had previous experience that a poke vote has gotten every player talking but when pressed, didn't provide examples. 
2. Not removing his vote from Joshua for the duel-reason of keeping people talking and not finding Joshua's posts sufficient. It can't be both.
3. For voicing suspicion about Joshua but never voicing the biggest concern that his posts didn't reflect reality: Saying Fred and Emmett were pushing for a no-lynch when they weren't. 
4. For telling us he didn't want Joshua lynched and then telling us that he did, despite us being able to see that he did say he wasn't in favor of the Joshua lynch. This after keeping his vote on Joshua throughout the duration of Day One.
5. For, supposedly, not knowing he was the hammer vote for Joshua. Oh, oops. I didn't realize.
6. For PMing Daniel to inquire about his suspicion of me, and then not responding, seeming to Daniel (as stated earlier today) that it was just an attempt to set up a wagon on me the next day. From what Daniel communicated to us, I agree with that. I feel his posts have also been pushing for an eventual lynch of me, and I know I'm town. 

Justin, I'm pretty sure you're scum so I'll place this vote now to give plenty chance to prove yourself. It's early enough in the day for you to convince us otherwise, or further show your scummy hand. Your vote on Joshua seems like bussing, even though you didn't even do that convincingly like you were afraid of pointing out his scummiest actions.

This one's for Justin: *Fwomma fwom fwom fwomma fwomma fwomma fwomma fwomma fwomma fwom fwom fwomma fwomma fwomma fwomma fwomma*

All of my songs are specific to real song rythms. I should start keeping a spreadsheet, because I'm starting to lack the ability to identify them when reading back...

[Fabien Bellamy]

Wow, I honestly didn't expect for Joshua to flip Scum. I didn't think Jean's rationale was solid enough, but I didn't catch that his vote might have been motivated by insider information. In retrospect it does make sense. Scum killing him was a logical choice as well, given he would have been a confirmed Townie today.

 

9 hours ago, Andrew Laurent said:

Well... this complicates things although it all lines up well. I am a town vanilaizer. Sort of - I was confused enough by the role I had to have the host clarify some things at the start. The mafiascum wiki says that vanilaizers are typically scum and permanently remove the target's ability. What I am is just a regular blocker. I prevent my target from using their ability for that one night. I don't know how bob is sorting out all the actions, but I will say night 1 I targeted Fred, which is why he was unsuccessful (he could have been jailkept or scum blocked TOO, but I only know for sure that I blocked him), and last night I was unsuccessful since he targeted me. Last night I tried to block Fabien since he's been so quiet he felt like a potential scum to me.  

And vincent, you don't want us discussing role madness? That's madness! Considering we have jailkeeper and dual blocker claims, not only do I suspect role madness, but I suspect a larger or more powerful scum team than normal. 

Either it is role madness, or someone is a scum blocker. Perhaps explaining your target choices can help (and I'm speaking in general, not only to Andrew). Why did Fred choose to block Peter instead of Robin or Aiden (his votes on day 1) ? Why did Andrew block (or should I say vanilaize ) Peter?

 

[Daniel Lucas]

Vincent, Alex did not claim Vanilla. Please pay attention.

Or am I not paying? I'm confused a bit on your argument, but let me reread it.

Also what do you think about my idea that some scum voted on me besides Joshua to create an other wagon? I only went to Emmett, because the other two plausible option was Robin and Fred. I jailed Robin and Fred claimed roleblocker.

[Vincent Denis]

*Fwom fwom fwom fwom*

1 hour ago, Emmett Ware said:

It's a shame, really. If someone hadn't influenced the game into not allowing PMs, there is a lot I would say privately that would be foolish to say in public. We're actually going to be done in by two different incarnations of Jesus, a reference that many of you will probably not get, sadly.

No shit. I totally agree with this. 

1 hour ago, Daniel Lucas said:

Truly no need to get personal. This is what exactly induced the previous shitshows. I apologized to everybody yesterday, I don't see any reason to keep beating the dead horse.enough. If you are Town Emmett, you can help me figure this out.

I'm trying to help when I say I don't see anybody getting personal. Nobody is attacking your family or your children. They're playing the game, you play the game too. Snap out of it.

Just now, Fabien Bellamy said:

Either it is role madness, or someone is a scum blocker. Perhaps explaining your target choices can help (and I'm speaking in general, not only to Andrew). Why did Fred choose to block Peter instead of Robin or Aiden (his votes on day 1) ? Why did Andrew block (or should I say vanilaize ) Peter?

I've stated that three role blocking claims make sense because we had them in Pirates II. I've also stated assumptions are reckless. Peter hasn't pinged me. I've actually got him in the potential town column. I'm not crazy about this. @Fred Dumont Why Peter? I'm totally for tagging anonymous accounts, by the way. Despite Joshua railing against them, I keep a separate browser open to access this game anonymously, so I hear notifications. 

Just now, Daniel Lucas said:

Vincent, Alex did not claim Vanilla. Please pay attention.

You. Pay. Attention. I've also made the same point that Alex didn't claim vanilla. Please point out where I did so. I've already clarified my previous post. If you quote it again then you clearly aren't paying attention

*Fwom fwomma fwomma fwom fwom fwom fwom*

[Fabien Bellamy]

9 minutes ago, Fabien Bellamy said:

Either it is role madness, or someone is a scum blocker. Perhaps explaining your target choices can help (and I'm speaking in general, not only to Andrew). Why did Fred choose to block Peter instead of Robin or Aiden (his votes on day 1) ? Why did Andrew block (or should I say vanilaize ) Peter?

I meant to say "Why did Andrew block Fred" of course.